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    Thread: ELECTRICIANS: Bonding (grounding) CSST gas pipe

    1. Senior Member spockcat's Avatar
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      08-29-2012 07:20 PM #1
      I need some advice from the electricians in the audience.

      We are in the process of selling our house and the buyer's inspector reported our CSST gas pipe that services the gas fireplace is not bonded. From what I've seen online this means it isn't grounded. I guess this wasn't code in 2005 when the system was installed. It seems like it would be an extremely easy fix given what we have to work with.

      First, we have a pair of 100 lbs propane tanks side by side attached to a regulator and feeding a copper line. That is outdoors. The copper line goes to the fitting shown below at the side of the house. This is where the gas line transitions to CSST, which then runs all the way to the gas fireplace.



      What I want to know if if I can simply drive a ground rod into the earth just below that point. Connect a #6 copper wire to the rod with a bonding clamp and on the other end with a bonding clamp to the brass fitting where the line connects to the CSST.

      The other,much more difficult alternative is to run that #6 wire back to the panel as shown in the video below. At the end of the video there is a very short segment where they connect to a ground rod. This is why I think my option is legal.


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      08-29-2012 09:50 PM #2
      Do not make a second grounding point for your electrical system, you will create a grounding gradient potential which is not a good thing. You will need to use that No. 6 copper to bond the csst to your existing system ground back by your panel as you suggested.
      Barry will be in shortly as he is the resident electrical expert.

      Chris

    3. Senior Member spockcat's Avatar
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      08-29-2012 11:28 PM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by cstraw View Post
      Do not make a second grounding point for your electrical system, you will create a grounding gradient potential which is not a good thing. You will need to use that No. 6 copper to bond the csst to your existing system ground back by your panel as you suggested.
      Barry will be in shortly as he is the resident electrical expert.

      Chris
      Would that be the case if this second grounding point had no electrical contact with the electrical system?

      Our main circuit box (or the original ground rod) is an impossible run. We have a secondary box that is possible to get to but nevertheless, it is also pretty complicated to wire into.

    4. Member barry2952's Avatar
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      08-30-2012 07:26 AM #4
      I've been out of construction for awhile, but I've never heard of bonding a gas line. I wouldn't think you'd want any electrical potential anywhere near a gas line.

      What chapter and verse is he quoting?
      Garmin Is My Pilot.

      I am confident you are wrong, but instead of illustrating why, I will just make disparaging remarks about your reading comprehension.
      -Zukjimpiphile

    5. Member GeoffD's Avatar
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      08-30-2012 09:17 AM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by barry2952 View Post
      I've been out of construction for awhile, but I've never heard of bonding a gas line. I wouldn't think you'd want any electrical potential anywhere near a gas line.

      What chapter and verse is he quoting?
      It's all about lightning strikes and tube being a fire hazard if it is in the path. If you have one, the preferred solution is to tie it into your lightning protection system rather than to your electrical panel.

      Quote Originally Posted by 2009 edition of NFPA 54, National Fuel Gas Code"
      7.13.2 CSST.

      CSST gas piping systems shall be bonded to the electrical service grounding electrode system at the point where the gas service enters the building. The bonding jumper shall not be smaller than 6 AWG copper wire or equivalent.
      7.13.4 Lightning Protection Systems.

      Where a lightning protection system is installed, the bonding of the gas piping shall be in accordance with NFPA 780, Standard for the Installation of Lightning Protection Systems."

    6. Senior Member spockcat's Avatar
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      08-30-2012 02:24 PM #6
      I've also been told that it can be bonded to a water pipe (assuming that water pipe is grounded). That would be almost as easy as using a grounding rod just below that fitting.

    7. Member barry2952's Avatar
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      08-30-2012 02:45 PM #7
      Copper water pipes are, but you have to be careful as there have been a lot of repairs made using plastic tubing in a copper run. This completely negates the ground path. Also, it's required that the water meter be bonded to maintain continuity in case of it's removal. Many a meter technician was horribly shocked by becoming the ground path when idiots use a ground wire as a neutral.
      Garmin Is My Pilot.

      I am confident you are wrong, but instead of illustrating why, I will just make disparaging remarks about your reading comprehension.
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    8. Senior Member spockcat's Avatar
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      08-30-2012 08:23 PM #8
      There is a straight run in the basement from the incoming water line (which is bonded/grounded normally back to the panel) to an outside hose bib. That is 3 feet from the first fitting to the CSST. I can easily run the 6 AWG wire from that fitting inside to the copper pipe.

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      08-30-2012 10:38 PM #9
      I happen to find a picture of what my electrician did with our gas lines. It was actually up for debate because the gas hose told us that grounding it is necessary but the electrical inspector knew of no such thing and wasnt sure about it. The wire goes out the house and grounds to the house copper rods.


    10. 09-01-2012 09:30 AM #10
      in ontario it is also in the gas fitters code to bond all gas piping. It has even changed recently with stainless steel flexible gas piping as well. It states that the bond clamp has to be before the stainless gas pipe starts(on the black iron) and bonded to a water line provided it is grounded and it doesnt have plastic lines hooked up everywhere. Best thing you do in my mind is to run a No 6 copper wire from your panel to the gas pipe. If the ceilings are finished and the job is a bit tricky, you could always run the copper wire outside and tuck it under the siding or something all the was back to the gas line.

      Shouldnt be too tough of a fix

    11. Senior Member spockcat's Avatar
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      09-01-2012 11:05 AM #11
      Done. Two clamps, 6 feet of #6 wire and a 90 deg plastic conduit. Bonded to interior water pipe which in turn is bonded to the panel.






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      09-02-2012 07:17 AM #12


      Chris

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