Diagnose my Outback's problem

[dieselraver]

So I have a 2010 outback with 37,XXX miles on it. i have been having some sort of issue with the steering. at full lock (turned completely) and I'm unsure if it does it when turning right as well as left, but I get this really bad slippage, similar to the wheels slipping on the ground and i've never experienced anything like this before.. It isn't anything related to suspension travel, and it's not a bearing (as far as I can tell) because it only happens when i turn the steering wheel fully...

what does TCL think is wrong with my outback?

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[Horror Business]

Is it something like what four wheel drive vehicles feel like when turning?

[dieselraver]

Is it something like what four wheel drive vehicles feel like when turning?

possibly... i honestly can't describe it, other than its a noticable shifting in the car when its turned to full lock. it sounds on every rotation, i've checked the tires for possibly something embedded or something rubbing against something but nothing. its coming from the front, and only happens when in a full turn.

when i say shifting, its like the car slips on the road slightly or something chugs and slips... the words to describe this are just not coming.

its not clicking like a bearing, and its not wheel rub in the wheel well.

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[Turq]

It almost sounds like driveline binding, which shouldn't be happening on an Outback that new. I dunno though.

[dieselraver]

It almost sounds like driveline binding, which shouldn't be happening on an Outback that new. I dunno though.

researched driveline binding a bit, and I can almost confidently say it sounds like wheel hop. the main causes for driveline binding or wheel hop sounds like bad shocks/struts, tires with no tread, ball joint, an alignment issue (i don't have any pull in steering and the steering wheel is centered), suspension is all stock, as are the tires conti-pro whatevers. springs seem to be ok, no crazy bouncing etc...

[digraph]

I believe the manual states to not do that. i.e. if when turning you hit the limit of the mechanism's travel, immediately back off; do not hold the steering wheel against the physical limit.
(ok I'm extrapolating - it says that in the '10 Forester docs)

[BRealistic]

At what speed are you hitting full steering lock?

[CSFiend]

You may want to check out http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/...-2010-present/

[dieselraver]

At what speed are you hitting full steering lock?

low speeds? mainly when doing u turns, making a sharp turn into my driveway, between 2-8mph?

[dieselraver]

I believe the manual states to not do that. i.e. if when turning you hit the limit of the mechanism's travel, immediately back off; do not hold the steering wheel against the physical limit.
(ok I'm extrapolating - it says that in the '10 Forester docs)

its not against the physical limit. its basically to full turn lock, its the same driving routine ive been doing for years, im not forcing it past the point of no [re] turn () but this is a new thing where i get the wheel hop/skidding as well as shuddering

[thetwodubheads]

Is your model one with a fancy lock-up center diff? The older straight viscous fluid diffs wouldn't do this, but if you have one that is supposed to lock, maybe it's siezed up.

I tried finding a video of someone with a 4wd vehicle turning on hard road so you could compare, but it seems most people with a 4wd rig know not to do that.

[dieselraver]

Is your model one with a fancy lock-up center diff? The older straight viscous fluid diffs wouldn't do this, but if you have one that is supposed to lock, maybe it's siezed up.

I tried finding a video of someone with a 4wd vehicle turning on hard road so you could compare, but it seems most people with a 4wd rig know not to do that.

no this is a 6MT which has the true 50/50 viscous coupling differential. no computers or fancy gadgetry to mess with. albeit a bit slower to respond but with true 50/50 AWD i don't care

[oh noes! cars!]

[surefooted]

All of my STIs would stutter and hop (kinda) in a sharp turn at low speeds. The manual stated that it was the rear diff and that it as no problem. Don't know if that is what yours is doing though. Just wanted to throw that out there.

[Hostile]

Did you ask those retards over at the outback forums?

[VeeeDoubleU]

mine would do something similar until i changed the rear diff fluid with synthetic. it doesnt do that anymore.

[dieselraver]

All of my STIs would stutter and hop (kinda) in a sharp turn at low speeds. The manual stated that it was the rear diff and that it as no problem. Don't know if that is what yours is doing though. Just wanted to throw that out there.

I wouldn't be so concerned if it wasn't something that seems different, its quite noticeable and never did this before. obviously if it was something that happened from day 1 I wouldn't be making a topic

Did you ask those retards over at the outback forums?

you said it yourself. they are retards. they really don't know their ass from their elbow. put it in perspective.

one guy wants to put a Legacy GT hood (with the hood scoop) on his regular outback to make it cool

mine would do something similar until i changed the rear diff fluid with synthetic. it doesnt do that anymore.

its going to the dealer on the 13th i'll see what they say

[thetwodubheads]

Has it been towed? Just remembering that we had an older legacy at the dealer that was towed in for something... Arrived with front wheels on the truck, back wheels on the ground. It would wheel hop after that, the towing company paid for a center diff, the cluches welded themselves together.

[CSFiend]

you said it yourself. they are retards. they really don't know their ass from their elbow. put it in perspective.

one guy wants to put a Legacy GT hood (with the hood scoop) on his regular outback to make it cool

That's just like, your opinion, man.

I'm a frequent contributor over there, and I'm not retarded. Well... perhaps slightly, at times.

How is the LGT hood on an Outback any different than VW douchebags running Audi wheels?

[WakusPakus]

my truck does this when im @ full lock in 4WD - isn't it just the awd system/rear diff? i always figured it was normal but who knows - that's a truck, not a suby lol...ill check my GF's and see if hers does it

[Heffernan]

That's just like, your opinion, man.

I'm a frequent contributor over there, and I'm not retarded. Well... perhaps slightly, at times.

^this.

[VeeeDoubleU]

its going to the dealer on the 13th i'll see what they say

i found that mine started doing that around 30k miles. when i drained the rear diff fluid it was kinda dark and worn out looking. took less then 1 qt. the transmission gear oil still looked like new but i changed it anyways.

[dieselraver]

ok new update. got the car back from the dealer. was "unable to replicate problem" i even went with him for the test drive, i drove, full lock both ways, we drove around for about 2-3 minutes, so the engine warmed up, but no noise.... i get to school (about 30 miles away) and the wheel hop is back!!!

someone has to know what the deal is.

cliffs:


1. cold start car does NOT wheel hop
2. driven for substantial miles (10+) and it does the wheel hop at sharp turns or full lock.

come on TCL don't fail me now!

[TurboMinivan]

1. cold start car does NOT wheel hop
2. driven for substantial miles (10+) and it does the wheel hop at sharp turns or full lock.

come on TCL don't fail me now!

As a Subaru salesman blessed with some actual mechanical knowledge, this sounds like a classic case of the center differential being unhappy with its fluid. When it happens on a Subaru with an automatic transmission, the trick is to get a bottle of limited slip friction modifier and pour it in the diff. This alone will usually cure the problem. If you want to do it the "right" way, have the center diff serviced (read: flush and fill) which is part of Subaru's suggested 30k service.

However, you have a manual transmission. This means you have the viscous center differential, and the friction modifier trick generally won't affect its operation. Here you'll probably have no choice but to replace the entire viscous unit with a new one. (What causes this to fail? It most often happens after you run tires of different diameters.) The good news is this will be covered by your 5/60 powertrain warranty provided you haven't abused the vehicle. Running tires of different diameters counts as abuse, and Subaru teaches their techs to look for such things when the center diff begins to fail.

If your tires are all equal, Subaru should be quite happy to replace it for you.

[Chris16vRocco]

Loose nut behind the steering wheel.

[MCTB]

no this is a 6MT which has the true 50/50 viscous coupling differential. no computers or fancy gadgetry to mess with. albeit a bit slower to respond but with true 50/50 AWD i don't care

Thats probably why it is doing it. Viscous works off of mechanical slippage to lock up. In a turn, one wheel is going farther than the other so you will lock up and get bind. The automatics shouldnt do that since it is electronically controlled. My fiances '12 OB with the CVT does not do that at all.

[Pool Runner]

As a Subaru salesman blessed with some actual mechanical knowledge, this sounds like a classic case of the center differential being unhappy with its fluid. When it happens on a Subaru with an automatic transmission, the trick is to get a bottle of limited slip friction modifier and pour it in the diff. This alone will usually cure the problem. If you want to do it the "right" way, have the center diff serviced (read: flush and fill) which is part of Subaru's suggested 30k service.

However, you have a manual transmission. This means you have the viscous center differential, and the friction modifier trick generally won't affect its operation. Here you'll probably have no choice but to replace the entire viscous unit with a new one. (What causes this to fail? It most often happens after you run tires of different diameters.) The good news is this will be covered by your 5/60 powertrain warranty provided you haven't abused the vehicle. Running tires of different diameters counts as abuse, and Subaru teaches their techs to look for such things when the center diff begins to fail.

If your tires are all equal, Subaru should be quite happy to replace it for you.

Can you you help diagnose my 2011 CVT, 2.5i Outbacks problem? is it the same issue, related or different? as I write this my Outback has been at the dealer a week for the third time trying to diag an intermittent problem that occurs when the car sits say overnight or for a period of say two hours or more. With the car cold, start it and let worm up like I normally do 10-15 seconds or more. Put the car in reverse and apply gas as to back out of driveway or such and then the car feels as if the CVT is seriously slipping, following a shudder of what feels like either the parking brake is on or a typical 4x4 left in 4-Lo range while on pavement.

The problem is entirely intermittent, has happened 8-10 times over the last year, it never does it for the dealer, only happens in reverse. My Subaru dealer cannot figure it out either and I'm getting more frustrated as the issue keeps recurring.

Forgot to mention, car has 22k miles has been maintained rigorously since new. I have driven it off-Road once or twice but never abused. Otherwise sees commuter highway miles daily via my wife 98% of the time.

Thanks in advance

[lojasmo]

change all your fluids.

[TurboMinivan]

Can you you help diagnose my 2011 CVT, 2.5i Outbacks problem? is it the same issue, related or different?

The issue mentioned above only happens when turning very sharply, thus exaggerating the difference in front-to-rear wheel speed (and maximizing the center differential's duty). Your issue, however, seems to have nothing at all to do with the center differential; when you're moving in a straight line, the differential doesn't really need to do anything since all the tires are rotating at the same speed.

Put the car in reverse and apply gas as to back out of driveway or such and then the car feels as if the CVT is seriously slipping, following a shudder of what feels like either the parking brake is on or a typical 4x4 left in 4-Lo range while on pavement.

I have never observed this behavior. It could be brake related (I'm just guessing here). When it has happened, did you manually release the parking brake before engaging reverse, or did you just press the gas pedal and let the car then release the parking brake for you?

[Pool Runner]

The issue mentioned above only happens when turning very sharply, thus exaggerating the difference in front-to-rear wheel speed (and maximizing the center differential's duty). Your issue, however, seems to have nothing at all to do with the center differential; when you're moving in a straight line, the differential doesn't really need to do anything since all the tires are rotating at the same speed.



I have never observed this behavior. It could be brake related (I'm just guessing here). When it has happened, did you manually release the parking brake before engaging reverse, or did you just press the gas pedal and let the car then release the parking brake for you?

Out of habit I & we always do it manually (I don't personally trust that electric brake mechanism) anyway, you just put the car in reverse after it sat. Release brake ofcourse and apply throttle. The car then sudders violently, think of how reversing in a manual would feel like to someone trying to do that for the first time. What's super annoying is that the car only does it 2-3 times in a month, dealer has had car a week while wife & I are on vacation and they say they can't recreate the problem, nor did they fix and denied my wife's clearly blown front passenger side speaker. I feel like Subaru is giving me the shaft with no lube, never mind I'm also less than two weeks into ownership of a new '13 WRX but they don't seem to give a rats that I'm a repeat customer.

love my WRX, but my '11 Outback 2.5, CVT has been the biggest POS ever, I regret trading my '08 Mercedes R350 for it. At least Mercedes service is always first class.

[dieselraver]

finally diagnosed the problem. it was the viscous coupler. can anyone tell me more about this part?

[dieselraver]

Out of habit I & we always do it manually (I don't personally trust that electric brake mechanism) anyway, you just put the car in reverse after it sat. Release brake ofcourse and apply throttle. The car then sudders violently, think of how reversing in a manual would feel like to someone trying to do that for the first time. What's super annoying is that the car only does it 2-3 times in a month, dealer has had car a week while wife & I are on vacation and they say they can't recreate the problem, nor did they fix and denied my wife's clearly blown front passenger side speaker. I feel like Subaru is giving me the shaft with no lube, never mind I'm also less than two weeks into ownership of a new '13 WRX but they don't seem to give a rats that I'm a repeat customer.

love my WRX, but my '11 Outback 2.5, CVT has been the biggest POS ever, I regret trading my '08 Mercedes R350 for it. At least Mercedes service is always first class.

have you tried a different dealership? my dealership is fantastic, they fix everything and provide me a loaner (which is very rare in NY)