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    Thread: 2013 Focus ST, worth it?

    1. Member Nubbin's Avatar
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      09-07-2012 09:52 PM #126
      It's f***ing worth it alright.

      I want one now, goddammit!
      Free 1SICKLEX

    2. 09-07-2012 10:18 PM #127
      Quote Originally Posted by worked_xr View Post
      My only comments on the Mustang vs. Focus ST is that it's probably more fair to compare the ST to a V6 Mustang (with Performance Package) in terms of comparable features at a comparable price (generally) and , though as it was pointed out, there are some very good rebates and deals to be had on a base GT right now too. But a stripped down GT for the price of an ST is only comparable if you ignore features and amenities and only look at performance data (which is actually a bit deceptive... I'll explain in a sec).

      And as someone pointed out, the ST actually excels in some aspects that may trump outright performance for some folks, like me. The fact of the matter is that with two younger kiddos, the Mustang's 2 doors and non-functional back seat are deal breakers, no matter how good a deal it is or how fast it is. I wish it weren't true, but it is. I'm a big Mustang fan of old, including still owning the '70 Mach 1 I bought when I was 15 in 1988... 25 years I've owned that car.

      And about actually comparing the performance between the Mustang (V6 or GT) and the ST, there's something more to consider than just raw numbers. Many of the factory/race drivers at some of the recent Ford press and promotional events have commented on how *FUN* the ST is, some even saying they preferred it to new Shelby that was also hooned around at the SVTOA Homecoming. These are Ford's own drivers, driving Ford's own products, and making statements about the grin-factor of the ST compared to the brutally fast Shelby. That grin-factor doesn't come with a number attached to compare, but it can be worth A LOT when comparing cars. Perfect example is all the love and adoration being hefted upon the Toyobaru FRSBRZ... they're properly slow (comparatively) yet continue to ring every reviewer's bell and make top 10 lists.
      At the last Waterfest I drove a 450whp E92 M3 back to back with an HS Mini. I thought the Mini was more fun to drive, mainly because the limitations of the course meant I could stay on the go pedal a lot longer in the Mini, and it was much more nimble.

      That said, the ST will likely be a GS car, where it will compete, or a DS car will it will be buried.

      (I'm an SCCA guy in case you haven't picked that up yet)

      Either way, for the same, or less money, I'd have the Mustang and play in FS.

      But I recognize that I'm not everyone.

      Though I think we all agree with my original comment that $34k for a Focus is DIW.

    3. 09-08-2012 09:36 AM #128
      Talking about engine, it's quite nice and powered, but I don't like the Mk3's looks.
      It's hard to think back to the days of the original Focus now. A car that took an age-old and worn-out model (Escort) and renewed in almost every way with what has to have been the best hatchback of the last 14 years. Design wise, both looks and mechanically it was a car that never really needed to be changed. But they did, and they've over styled it ever since. Its become more and more German, and its faded away into the abyss that is the the hatchback market. It no longer stands out. It no longer has any individuality. Its big bulky and ugly. Everything that the Ford Focus is not. European Mk 2 was very bland, but it's facelift (2008-2011) was quite nice.

    4. Member worked_xr's Avatar
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      09-08-2012 11:14 AM #129
      Quote Originally Posted by DIAF View Post
      At the last Waterfest I drove a 450whp E92 M3 back to back with an HS Mini. I thought the Mini was more fun to drive, mainly because the limitations of the course meant I could stay on the go pedal a lot longer in the Mini, and it was much more nimble.

      That said, the ST will likely be a GS car, where it will compete, or a DS car will it will be buried.

      (I'm an SCCA guy in case you haven't picked that up yet)

      Either way, for the same, or less money, I'd have the Mustang and play in FS.

      But I recognize that I'm not everyone.
      If autocross/solo is a priority, you know that the Mustang is probably not the weapon of choice either though. The Mini Cooper would probably be a stronger competitor in D Stock.

      As for the ST, I suspect it will be lumped in with the MS3 in D Stock simply because of the hp edge over the current GTI. I actually warned others about this back when the ST was first announced, and I absolutely agree that it won't be terribly competitive. The only way it might have an edge is in a Road Tire class, but we'll just have to wait and see.
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      co-founder North American ST Owners Club || www.NASTOC.org
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    5. Member kevin splits's Avatar
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      09-08-2012 11:22 AM #130
      Quote Originally Posted by worked_xr View Post
      If autocross/solo is a priority, you know that the Mustang is probably not the weapon of choice either though. The Mini Cooper would probably be a stronger competitor in D Stock.

      As for the ST, I suspect it will be lumped in with the MS3 in D Stock simply because of the hp edge over the current GTI. I actually warned others about this back when the ST was first announced, and I absolutely agree that it won't be terribly competitive. The only way it might have an edge is in a Road Tire class, but we'll just have to wait and see.
      Idk man I think the ST is the best all around hatch, excluding the 5 door STI. I drive a MS3 often, have 2 mkvs, one used to be set up for road course days at Mid Ohio and Nelsons, other is completely stock.

      Also the upcoming Fiesta ST has my interest as well. 180hp, 177tq I read, that thing will be a little terrorist in the fwd class.

      Also anyone know the price tag on the ST race car? I asked the dealer but they don't know, they have to look into it.
      "The Vile Bunch" ll v2lab ll eemilitiatv ll Stay Orange.
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    6. Member worked_xr's Avatar
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      09-09-2012 09:41 AM #131
      Oh, I agree with you about the ST being best all-round hot hatch available in the US right now, but I don't think it'll be as highly competitive in SCCA's D Stock class where it will compete with not just the MS3 and Mustang V6, but also the ITR, Cooper S, WRX, BMW 1 and 3 series, Audi A3, S4, and TT quattro. It's a class full of stiff competition and all of those cars have more and better development right now.

      BTW, the Focus ST-R race car is something on the order of $99k I believe. It's a lot, but it's a real turnkey race car, from the cage to data logging. My hope is that next year Ford offers a "performance pack" Focus ST for the really hardcore weekend racers. Strip down the ST to bare essentials (i.e. no fancy stereo or MFT, moon roof, nav, etc.), include the manual adjust Recaros and stuff like performance springs, adjustable dampers, Brembo brakes, exhaust cutout, mechanical LSD, etc. Price it around the price of an ST3 (i.e. $29k). Yeah, I'd buy one like that if it were available.
      - Wyatt
      co-founder North American ST Owners Club || www.NASTOC.org
      '13 Focus ST || '89 Merkur XR4RS || '70 Mustang Mach 1

    7. 09-10-2012 02:45 PM #132
      Quote Originally Posted by worked_xr View Post
      If autocross/solo is a priority, you know that the Mustang is probably not the weapon of choice either though. The Mini Cooper would probably be a stronger competitor in D Stock.

      As for the ST, I suspect it will be lumped in with the MS3 in D Stock simply because of the hp edge over the current GTI. I actually warned others about this back when the ST was first announced, and I absolutely agree that it won't be terribly competitive. The only way it might have an edge is in a Road Tire class, but we'll just have to wait and see.
      Did you not see where I said FS?

      The Mustang is the only weapon in that class. Either in 2007 Shelby GT flavor, or 5.0 GT.

    8. Geriatric Member ByronLLN's Avatar
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      09-10-2012 03:03 PM #133
      Quote Originally Posted by worked_xr View Post
      My hope is that next year Ford offers a "performance pack" Focus ST for the really hardcore weekend racers. Strip down the ST to bare essentials (i.e. no fancy stereo or MFT, moon roof, nav, etc.), include the manual adjust Recaros and stuff like performance springs, adjustable dampers, Brembo brakes, exhaust cutout, mechanical LSD, etc. Price it around the price of an ST3 (i.e. $29k). Yeah, I'd buy one like that if it were available.
      Forgive me for piling on, but a 5.0 GT w/ the performance package would make a lot more sense for just a little bit more initial cash. And considering that the ST comes with at least 18" wheels and weighs more than 3,200lbs, the Mustang wouldn't be much worse in terms of consumable costs either.
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    9. Member Chris_V's Avatar
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      09-10-2012 03:13 PM #134
      Quote Originally Posted by kevin FaKiN spLits View Post
      I didn't go to the dealer looking for a boat though... Trust me, if I was a douchebag and wanted to show it the Mustang would be a no brainer
      You were fine in this thread until you became an insulting little prick.

      Quote Originally Posted by TM87 View Post
      What part of 4dr hatchback didnt you understand???

      How hard is it to understand, that when people need 4drs, they are looking for cars w 4drs. Not a faster 2dr for same money. Mustang can be a great bang for the bucks, but its a coupe. This dude needs 4drs, Let me repeat it again FOUR DOORS!!!

      I would understand if you are talking about a sedan, but a coupe
      OP also has more than one car, and said he would probably be getting a 4 door sedan IN ADDITION to the ST:


      Quote Originally Posted by kevin FaKiN spLits View Post

      I think a better option for me at the moment is to go ahead and trade my molested mkv for a friends b7 A4 quattro tip, and trade the stock one in on the ST once the price comes down, and my hand works again.
      So if he NEEDS a 4door, he'd HAVE one in addition to the hatch.

      So again, at $24k, the ST is a great buy. For $34k, not so much, At $29k, as a second car, it's not necessarily a better performance deal than a Mustang, though apparently to this little 'tard, only douchebags would like/drive those.

      I even LIKE the ST, but the moment he was an insulting assclown, he lost all my support for buying one.
      I love cars, but the problem is they are like schroedinger's hobby. They're always in a quantum superstate of being both awesome and a huge waste of time and money... until observation momentarily forces them into one state or another.

    10. Junior Member
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      09-10-2012 05:12 PM #135
      Thanks for the info. I ordered an ST (ST3 option) and expect it in late October. There are dealers being difficult but got mine for $27,700. This is the top option package with leather Recaro's and Nav. 34K is crazy talk.

      My daughter bought a Mazda 3 this weekend. The dealer had a Ford dealership next to their Mazda and one Focus ST on the ground. I got to test drive the ST and the Speed3 back to back. I prefer the ST but that speed3 is still a beast.

    11. Member heimbachae's Avatar
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      09-10-2012 06:05 PM #136
      i want to like this car, but ford is just bothering me lately. their cars are over priced and i only say that because they lose value SO QUICKLY. also the rear ends on the STs are hideous. if the fiesta ST comes stateside i'd consider that, but no way will i go near the focus ST. no. way.
      girls dig when i play with the V

    12. 09-10-2012 07:01 PM #137
      Dyno results are popping up on the interwebz

      235 hp 260 tq with no mods 315 miles on the odo. That is effecient power delivery.

      Check www.focusst.org for the results

    13. Member kevin splits's Avatar
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      09-10-2012 07:35 PM #138
      Quote Originally Posted by Chris_V View Post
      You were fine in this thread until you became an insulting little prick.



      OP also has more than one car, and said he would probably be getting a 4 door sedan IN ADDITION to the ST:




      So if he NEEDS a 4door, he'd HAVE one in addition to the hatch.

      So again, at $24k, the ST is a great buy. For $34k, not so much, At $29k, as a second car, it's not necessarily a better performance deal than a Mustang, though apparently to this little 'tard, only douchebags would like/drive those.

      I even LIKE the ST, but the moment he was an insulting assclown, he lost all my support for buying one.
      I made a thread about a 4 door hot hatch. Anywhere did I ask, " Gee guys how does this compare to a 2 door RWD pony car?" because I don't think I did

      And yes when I hear a mustang on the road and I see the driver its a douche strong arming the wheel with spiked hair, sleeveless shirt, with tribal rats blasting Nickelback 98% of the time. If you can stereotype VW kids as being flannel wearing, skinny jean rocking, fitted hat wearing hipsters, why can't I do the same to mustang bros?

      Yes I'm trying to pick up a a4/s4 Avant for the soon to be family, and have a little 4 door fwd rocket made by Ford! I.was just shocked at what my dealer was trying to analize me for
      "The Vile Bunch" ll v2lab ll eemilitiatv ll Stay Orange.
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    14. Member worked_xr's Avatar
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      09-10-2012 07:57 PM #139
      Quote Originally Posted by DIAF View Post
      Did you not see where I said FS?

      The Mustang is the only weapon in that class. Either in 2007 Shelby GT flavor, or 5.0 GT.
      I did miss that... I just had D Stock in my mind, which is where the Mustang V6 is categorized, so that's why I made the comment about the Mini being the better weapon.


      With regard to:
      Quote Originally Posted by SSLByron View Post
      Forgive me for piling on, but a 5.0 GT w/ the performance package would make a lot more sense for just a little bit more initial cash. And considering that the ST comes with at least 18" wheels and weighs more than 3,200lbs, the Mustang wouldn't be much worse in terms of consumable costs either.
      If performance was the only thing that mattered, you're probably right, but you have to take my comments about the idea of a Focus ST "Performance Package" in the context of my other comments, including my mention of the uselessness of the Mustang's back seat and lack of 4 doors. I love the Mustang, and it's a TON of performance car for the money, especially the GT and Boss 302, but for someone who needs a car with 4 doors and a functional back seat for kiddos (like I do), a Performance Package ST would get my coin before a GT or Boss no matter how big the performance differences or how miniscule the price difference. But your point is well taken... if practicality and/or efficiency weren't concerns, the Mustang should definitely be high on the list.
      - Wyatt
      co-founder North American ST Owners Club || www.NASTOC.org
      '13 Focus ST || '89 Merkur XR4RS || '70 Mustang Mach 1

    15. 09-18-2012 09:41 AM #140
      Quote Originally Posted by DIAF View Post
      The Mustang is more fun to drive than any current FWD, so there's that too.

      At $24k loaded it would make some sense. The base GT starts at $27k, so a $34k Focus is stupid.

      Some day you guys who a defending the Focus over the Mustang for the same price will see how silly you sound.
      Comparing MSRP to MSRP, a base GT will always cost more than a loaded ST. Anyone who pays any more than MSRP need not apply to this comparison.

      Some day, you will realize you are making a completely false statement and will see how silly you sound.

      Build and Price at Ford.com

      Ford Focus ST3 with Moonroof is $29,825.
      Ford Mustang GT with ZERO option packages is 31,095.

      Don't believe me? Go build it for yourself.

    16. Member Spray`'s Avatar
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      09-18-2012 01:20 PM #141
      A mustang is an entirely different car than a Focus. A focus is practical, a Mustang isn't. A focus is also much cheaper in gas.

    17. Member Chmeeee's Avatar
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      09-18-2012 01:33 PM #142
      I'm seriously considering trading my 2011 GT for a 2013 ST. I'm assuming that will cause several heads to explode based on the conversations in this thread.
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    18. 09-18-2012 02:36 PM #143
      Quote Originally Posted by NoXenons View Post
      At 34k just get a Golf /Ṝ
      ftw or get a veloster turbo for 22k and get sick mpgs.

    19. Member heimbachae's Avatar
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      09-18-2012 02:41 PM #144
      veloster is cool, love the tech in it and for the price it can't be beat, but so everyone knows my bro-in-law has a standard and he says when the hatch it open and say it just rained, water WILL be going into your backseats and trunk area. bad engineering there. keep that in mind.
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    20. Member KeiCar's Avatar
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      09-18-2012 03:17 PM #145
      Guys, seriously... I mean 5 pages... FIVE!

      Really... REALLY?




      Here you go:


      Now someone can see what this looks like without leaving this page...
      Last edited by KeiCar; 09-18-2012 at 03:19 PM.
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      09-18-2012 03:21 PM #146
      Did you mean to post a pic of the ST? Cause that isn't a 2013 ST
      CTS-V 1st dyno: 461/472
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    22. Member kevin splits's Avatar
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      09-18-2012 03:51 PM #147
      Quote Originally Posted by KeiCar View Post
      Guys, seriously... I mean 5 pages... FIVE!

      Really... REALLY?




      Here you go:


      Now someone can see what this looks like without leaving this page...
      Wow, nice fail bro
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    23. Member kevin splits's Avatar
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      09-18-2012 04:17 PM #148
      Glad I have to wait. By the time I can drive again, this should be out







      5 door of course, because we won't get the 3 door.
      "The Vile Bunch" ll v2lab ll eemilitiatv ll Stay Orange.
      2008 Mkv-sold; 2003 yellow SRT-4-sold; 2009 G8 GT-sold; 1991 Talon TSI- fully built-sold ; 2011 Mk6

    24. Member kevin splits's Avatar
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      09-18-2012 04:23 PM #149
      Here's the new Focus ST
      "The Vile Bunch" ll v2lab ll eemilitiatv ll Stay Orange.
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      09-18-2012 04:27 PM #150
      Quote Originally Posted by keicar View Post
      guys, seriously... I mean 5 pages... Five!

      Really... Really?




      Here you go:
      [img]wrong car[/img]

      now someone can see what this looks like without leaving this page...
      *applause*
      | The Orange Line | 1999 BMW 328i | 2013 Chevy Volt |

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