1.5L power loss going uphill... Suggestions?

[rabbitnothopper]

So my 78 Rabbit with a 1.5L CIS loses speed dramatically when moving up a hill and it wont accelerate.

Say im going 70mph (legal limit) and a hill arrives, quickly I begin losing speed down to 55-60mph while moving up the hill.
No amount of foot work lets the car go faster

What to do?? Where is my prob? This isnt normal....


Is it fuel related? am I losing fuel pressure at an angle?


CIS BASIC! NO O2 sensor no frequency valve no ECU.

thanks

[rabbitnothopper]

timing off? no, i have checked it

distributor might be off a little but its the only way to get the idle down below 1000rpms

[BATESY]

if you had a high idle to begin with you probably have a major vaccum leak somewhere. possible and rubber line area the intake manifold or a vaccum line. If you adjusted the timing to low the idle you probably retarded the timing. hense the lack on amazing power from a 1.5l

BATESY

[rabbitnothopper]

no vac leak, i have replaced:

injectors, injector holders, injector seals
i have checked the intake boot and fuel distributor boot

replaced the IAC valve on the rear of the intake

the intake lines are plugged

the idle adjuster in the intake has a new viton o-ring

so?...vac leak is pretty unlikely
but ill take your suggestion and go over it again
the IAC metal hose is suspicious...

thanks

[8v-of-fury]

huh, I didn't know they offered the 1.5L with the CIS.. thought they all were carbed and the 1.6L started the FI.

Does it like to rev out? My 1.7 did 7k, so I imagine the 1.5 could go a little higher eh?

[rabbitnothopper]

yes 1.5L "EH" CIS-basic which they say is 70hp...

i dont know what the rpm is but ive gotten up above 4k a few times

life was worse with the '77 GC transmission it had, i swapped in an 81 GP to make the highway more relaxing


as for the old beaten 1.7L i drive yes it does 6k pretty easily
i cant wait until that motor blows itself apart so i can garage it


BTW, i have cleaned the fuel distributor thoroughly and replaced the cork gasket on the plunger air box with a rubber gasket......
so, its retarded and has no power
ok sure

[WackyWabbitRacer]

Used a 1.5L engine prepped by Techtonics with a dyno sheet of 100 BHP in my old SCCA ITC Rabbit.

Engine easily rev'ed to 7500 rpms.

Don't know what you are doing to your 1.5L?

Cheers,WWR.

[BATESY]

what about the cis mixture adjustment, maybe out of wack perhaps. what about the cat, put your hand with the car running at the end of the exhaust system and see if there is a good amount of pressure coming out, checked the housing of the cat for purple'in, caused from excessive heat from a clogged cat.

only real things that can cause this is bad timing, clogged exhaust, clogged intake filter, lack of fuel pressure, or just a tried old motor.

BATESY

[rabbitnothopper]

yes plenty of pressure out of the tail pipe
no cat, it was removed long long ago

the air filter is new but no doubt its getting oil fouled again from blowby in the valvecover breather hose

mechanical timing is spot on

ill try adjusting the idle fuel mix a little and turn the distributor

i have a tach i can plug into the ignition coil to check rpms
and a volt meter which does a bad job on wire #1


thanks

[BATESY]

what timing advance setting are you running??? and are what timing mark are you going by?
personally for me its the one of the crank pulley to cover, some like the marks on the flywheel.

[rabbitnothopper]

what timing advance setting are you running??? and are what timing mark are you going by?
personally for me its the one of the crank pulley to cover, some like the marks on the flywheel.

i set the mechanical timing to TDC according to:
camshaft gear even with the head/valve cover
flywheel O (circle) which is TDC, the notch is BTDC, before TDC.
the crankshaft lines up with the dot on the IM shaft

distributor rotor i havent checked lately
i tried adjusting it and again sounded like too high of an idle
any lower and it ran rough between 600-900 rpm

been busy working on tune ups (40,000mi) on my other car

[OLDSKOOLVWS]

flywheel O (circle) which is TDC

Correct. Many people get this wrong. The notch is typically BTDC and the nub is for the VAG1367 pickup. How did you check your timing? VAG1367 is the best, but a gun gets you close.

Sounds like a timing or A/F mixture problem. That's my bet and I'm sticking to it.

Keep in mind, everything is compensatory to everything in a CIS system meaning if you adjust your idle, then you need to adjust fuel and timing. If you adjust timing, you need to adjust idle and fuel. If you adjust fuel, you need to adjust timing and idle. Dwell is key as it will help you determine what the best settings are.

Do your self a favor and get a wideband setup. They are reasonable now ($200+) and are invaluable to the home tuner. I bet if you drop one on, your running crazy rich going up the hill resulting in a loss of power. Running border lean is the best for power but you risk detonation and high temps.

[rabbitnothopper]

its CIS basic, no ecu, no kjet, no frequency valve, no o2...etc

i have not touched at all the set screws on the throttle valves

i have replaced the idle screw o-ring

and the fuel on the plunger plate has been tweaked between lowest idle drop (lean) and rough idle drop (rich)

thanks much for inputs, ill get a chance to check it out later this weekend!


i dont have a timing gun, will need to borrow one from autozone (free)
if they have any...hmm

[OLDSKOOLVWS]

its CIS basic, no ecu, no kjet, no frequency valve, no o2...etc

My above post still applies whether it's BASIC or E.

[ZombieGTi05]

Although I'd stil smoke test her for a vac leak event the slightest one on a CIS can make a difference.

[RunningRabbits]

personally i would suggest that it is timing because as you rev up the timing should advance and if the timing is already retarded then it will not advance were its suppose to when you rev up which will cause you to lose A LOT of power in general even though timing may seen to subtle, its not because if its retarded then you are having late detonation which means that the combustion happens when the piston is already on its way down, and that means that there is less air being compressed which is kind of like low compression, and we all now that low compression will cause power loss.
I have also found that the best way to check for a vacuum leak is to spray WD-40 on all of the intake and if your RPM's raise at ALL you most likely have a vacuum leak...
hope this helps.

[rabbitnothopper]

havent driven it much lately...actually havent driven it at all in 3 weeks


timing is correct

transmission timing hole 0 mark
camshaft pulley lined up with valve cover

distributor might still be tweaked down a little too much

[nairmac]

Maybe the vacuum advance on the distributor just isn't working at all. Sounds like it isn't compensating for timing under load.

[rabbitnothopper]

Maybe the vacuum advance on the distributor just isn't working at all. Sounds like it isn't compensating for timing under load.

i have tested it, i mechanically advanced the timing (with a screwdriver)
put my finger over the vacuum port
the vacuum held, thus the diaphram is good
release finger, the advance snaps back into place

if you think that
maybe it was because of the oneway valve i shoved on there
it was of course facing the correct direction...it seemed to be restricting the vacuum a lot
i removed it recently but havent driven it

[rabbitnothopper]

drove today...not much of a change

starting to think the compression and piston rings

will work to do a compression test, i can get the tool for free as a loaner

[rabbitnothopper]

ok after testing a lot of electricals
wur = 19 ohms, gets 12 volts at plug
TTS = 30 ohms, gets 12 volts at plug
CSV = ? ohms, gets 10.89volts when cranking (?10ohms i think?)

thats all working good

found out that my CSV was jammed, no fuel spraying
got a new one, fires right up
RIGHT UP....purrr

ive had a replacement used WUR for awhile now

symptoms: runs rough when engine is stone dead cold, when engine warms up runs ok "normal"
symptoms: some hesitation at "cruising" speed, engine fumbles around but drivable
symptoms:loss of power going up hill...70mph pedal on the floor quickly becomes 50mph.....wierd

hint-- wur

decided to clean up the WUR and install it...whats the harm right?
remove plug, remove oil dipstick
remove 13mm banjo fuel line, remove 14mm banjo fuel line
remove 2x 5mm allen bolts....
*swap WUR/CPR*
installation is reverse of removal...eat that bentley

engine is stone dead cold and has not been started since process began
its about 40F outside......guarantees a typical problem will arise

go over and start engine, fires right up thanks to CSV,
floor the pedal PRRRRRRooooooooommmph!
yeah no rough idle when engine cold

floor pedal again, amazed....works as it should
engine revs up and no wierd side effects

now i know youre going to say
*you shoulda tested the cold & warm control pressure*
and i say to you, i dont have a CIS K-Jetronic fuel pressure tester kit....they arent at every local store
and you'll say
but you can get one online for only $120-200
.....

system pressure i can test, have tested, and have adjusted w/shims.


so whats all this mean?
my WUR tested fine at 19ohms but the pressures were off?
yes
does this fix my "Loss of power going uphill"
it seemed to work when i floored it in 2nd and 3rd going up a hill
does a strong north headwind going up a hill doing 70mph still bother me while in 4th gear?
dunno, havent been there yet...


do i need to write a book about it and post it in my blog because im bored and its going to be 32F every night this weekend?
thats what she said