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    Thread: The Official GRAN PREMIO SANTANDER D'ITALIA 2012 (MONZA)

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      09-15-2012 11:23 PM #106
      Quote Originally Posted by nickthaskater View Post
      One could speculate that his trip down pit road was what broke the camel's back, just as the safety car did in Valencia. It is not a forgone conclusion that he wouldn't have finished even if he didn't receive the drive through.
      You don't really believe that, do you? You're smart enough not to have to grasp at straws like that. Renault had THREE alternator failures on the weekend. Vettel had the exact same issue in Friday practice, and Lotus had to change one after qualifying. Oh, and remember Valencia? Both Vettel and Grosjean retired due to alternator failures. I suppose no one could say with absolute certainty whether he would or wouldn't have finished had he not had to cruise through the pits at 100km/h, but based on the evidence at hand, it's pretty clear that there is no correlation between the car's failure and the drive through penalty. Let's be real.

    2. Member rrr rr's Avatar
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      09-16-2012 12:15 AM #107
      Quote Originally Posted by kfzmeister View Post
      It's useless. Have a nice day.
      I'm glad I could give you an English lesson.
      PSN: gospracrgo

    3. Member nickthaskater's Avatar
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      09-16-2012 07:25 AM #108
      Quote Originally Posted by TBomb View Post
      You don't really believe that, do you? You're smart enough not to have to grasp at straws like that. Renault had THREE alternator failures on the weekend. Vettel had the exact same issue in Friday practice, and Lotus had to change one after qualifying. Oh, and remember Valencia? Both Vettel and Grosjean retired due to alternator failures. I suppose no one could say with absolute certainty whether he would or wouldn't have finished had he not had to cruise through the pits at 100km/h, but based on the evidence at hand, it's pretty clear that there is no correlation between the car's failure and the drive through penalty. Let's be real.
      Just playing devil's advocate

    4. Member Mk1Racer's Avatar
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      09-16-2012 08:23 AM #109
      Quote Originally Posted by kfzmeister View Post
      It's useless. Have a nice day.
      You've made it pretty obvious that you're looking at this whole thing through Alonso goggles. At best, this was a racing incident. One car, granted w/ a great run on the car ahead, tries to make an outside pass on a 180+ mph corner, knowing that the driver in front probably didn't see him (view out of the mirrors of an F1 car is notoriously bad), and ends up putting wheels off (didn't have to put all 4 off). There was no deliberate move to force Alonso off the track, it was just where Vettel's car was tracking out. Trying to pinch Vettel's car back in, to give Alonso more room, could have very easily have caused Vettel's car to spin, possibly taking them both out. You can't just change the direction of a car that's on the ragged edge at 180+ mph like that w/o possibly upsetting things very badly. Listen the comment about when Webber spun. Those cars are on the absolute limit of adhesion, and the slightest change can cause them to lose grip.

      So again, Alonso tries a risky outside move, Vettel drives the normal racing line, but because it's Monza, and Alonso, in a Ferrari, w/ a Spanish and Italian steward, Vettel is given a penalty. If you don't see this as being more about the politics and less about an actual infraction, you really have no objectivity.

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      09-16-2012 05:53 PM #110
      Quote Originally Posted by Mk1Racer View Post
      You've made it pretty obvious that you're looking at this whole thing through Alonso goggles. At best, this was a racing incident. One car, granted w/ a great run on the car ahead, tries to make an outside pass on a 180+ mph corner, knowing that the driver in front probably didn't see him (view out of the mirrors of an F1 car is notoriously bad), and ends up putting wheels off (didn't have to put all 4 off). There was no deliberate move to force Alonso off the track, it was just where Vettel's car was tracking out. Trying to pinch Vettel's car back in, to give Alonso more room, could have very easily have caused Vettel's car to spin, possibly taking them both out. You can't just change the direction of a car that's on the ragged edge at 180+ mph like that w/o possibly upsetting things very badly. Listen the comment about when Webber spun. Those cars are on the absolute limit of adhesion, and the slightest change can cause them to lose grip.

      So again, Alonso tries a risky outside move, Vettel drives the normal racing line, but because it's Monza, and Alonso, in a Ferrari, w/ a Spanish and Italian steward, Vettel is given a penalty. If you don't see this as being more about the politics and less about an actual infraction, you really have no objectivity.
      O.k.
      Quote Originally Posted by tbvvw View Post
      There's a good chance next year's car could be called #5!
      Not looking good, unless you mean WCC standings

    6. Member atoson's Avatar
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      09-16-2012 06:57 PM #111
      Quote Originally Posted by kfzmeister View Post
      O.k.
      I hope this the end of it and onto Singapore. I'm still contemplating whether I should spend nearly $3g's to watch the 3 day event of the US Gran Prix coming from Cali for two.

    7. Member atoson's Avatar
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      09-18-2012 04:51 AM #112
      He he he I did it! I bought my tickets for the Austin race Turn 15

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      09-18-2012 12:11 PM #113
      Quote Originally Posted by atoson View Post
      He he he I did it! I bought my tickets for the Austin race Turn 15
      Hope you have a buddy whose couch you can crash on...

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