CAUTION for those with Flashed ECU's

[Rockerchick]

Some people don't care about the warranty. I know plenty of people who have modded their cars in warranty. There are dealers out there who are mod friendly, and are smart enough to know which things will be considered void because of your mods and which won't (the window issue isn't affected by a chip, for example).

[sethdude]

It was said already, but I'll say it again: pay to play, folks. This conversation has been done to death amongst GTI owners, and there are always those who feel they can go against the explicit rules outlined in your warranty documentation and still have their car repaired by VW for free.

Flashing you ECU probably voids more parts than it doesn't- your entire drivetrain and just about any electrical part is probably not covered by Moss-Magnuson, due to the fact that they're all controlled by the ECU.

If your dealer wants to cover your repair under warranty after you have knowingly voided your warranty, consider it a gift. Just don't expect it.

[drtechy]

It was said already, but I'll say it again: pay to play, folks. This conversation has been done to death amongst GTI owners, and there are always those who feel they can go against the explicit rules outlined in your warranty documentation and still have their car repaired by VW for free.

Flashing you ECU probably voids more parts than it doesn't- your entire drivetrain and just about any electrical part is probably not covered by Moss-Magnuson, due to the fact that they're all controlled by the ECU.

If your dealer wants to cover your repair under warranty after you have knowingly voided your warranty, consider it a gift. Just don't expect it.

I've been trying to say this forever, but people keep thinking they should be covered.

[LEBlackRob]

It was said already, but I'll say it again: pay to play, folks. This conversation has been done to death amongst GTI owners, and there are always those who feel they can go against the explicit rules outlined in your warranty documentation and still have their car repaired by VW for free.

Flashing you ECU probably voids more parts than it doesn't- your entire drivetrain and just about any electrical part is probably not covered by Moss-Magnuson, due to the fact that they're all controlled by the ECU.

If your dealer wants to cover your repair under warranty after you have knowingly voided your warranty, consider it a gift. Just don't expect it.

Yes agree with this guy. Depending on the dealership and or the tech's in the place. You can get lucky and have things covered, but keep in mind that you are walking thin ice on warranty claims. This is part of playing with a newer car. So man up and study on the car so if it comes to a point that they can't cover it. Be prepared with either some one to take the car to or a place that you can do the work on it on your own. This is my 3rd new VW and will be my 3rd with software. Knock on wood but I have yet to have a warranty voided and know the risks that I face. So if you do not feel comfortable with tuning your car. Then your best bet is to not tune your car. If you choose to tune your car look at the disclaimer you sign when you tune your car it out lines what your at risk of.

[Derby Herbie]

I would really love to get the APR Stage I. Huge bummer about the warranty issues now. After a couple weeks with the Turbo, especially with the manual tranny, I definitely feel it needs more low end torque, and the extra 50 hp....the Stage I would bring it to what it should be from the factory.


Anyone thought of buying a secondary ECU to mod? Pull the stock one out, throw in modded....then if ever need to bring in for service, put stock one back in. How expensive, feasible would it be??

[PooLeArMor]

Anyone thought of buying a secondary ECU to mod? Pull the stock one out, throw in modded....then if ever need to bring in for service, put stock one back in. How expensive, feasible would it be??

it doenst work that way.. u need to code the ECU with ur VIN to work which will cost **** load of $$$

[ridgemanron]

I would really love to get the APR Stage I. Huge bummer about the warranty issues now. After a couple weeks with the Turbo, especially with the manual tranny, I definitely feel it needs more low end torque, and the extra 50 hp....the Stage I would bring it to what it should be from the factory.


Anyone thought of buying a secondary ECU to mod? Pull the stock one out, throw in modded....then if ever need to bring in for service, put stock one back in. How expensive, feasible would it be??

HPA, the tuning specialist from Canada, is offering their ECU upgrade at an actual VW dealer,
Linden VW of N.J.. There very well may be other VW dealerships that are are 'upgrade' friendly
and perhaps HPA can direct you to one near you if you're concerned about the warranty? The
Stage I type ECU upgrade is offered throughout all Volvo dealerships, called Polestar, and I
would think that forward thinking VW dealerships may very well be coming on board as well.

[drtechy]

HPA, the tuning specialist from Canada, is offering their ECU upgrade at an actual VW dealer,
Linden VW of N.J.. There very well may be other VW dealerships that are are 'upgrade' friendly
and perhaps HPA can direct you to one near you if you're concerned about the warranty? The
Stage I type ECU upgrade is offered throughout all Volvo dealerships, called Polestar, and I
would think that forward thinking VW dealerships may very well be coming on board as well.

APR also does tunes at dealerships across the nation too, doesnt mean it doesnt void your warranty. God does anyone read the paperwork they sign when they buy a car? Any modification to the ecu voids it, doesnt matter who does it. Pay to play people, pay to play!

And before someone says it, yes some dealerships are nice about it, but they don't have to be, its their choice, but if they go by the book, its voided

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[Carbon Steel]

Even if a VW dealer is a Tune shop and they are "Mod friendly", etc., if you have a catastrophic/major failure with the engine, transmission and the dealer needs VW of A's assistance for a new engine/trans etc., VW of A will want some info on the car, like hook up the computer, check the ECU info and when it shows TUNE they will not be giving the dealer a new engine.

So how long will the dealer be mod friendly if it ends up coming out of his pocket. Reading all the threads about, launching, tire spin, over torque codes, etc., between the mods and operator/driver inexperience, many of the modded ( and some non modded) cars are being abused, ie operated outside of the parameters that VW has designed them for.

Personally, i don't want VW to support problems caused by abuse, ie operator dogging the car because as VW compiles the statistics and they calculate maintenance (warranty costs) it will increase the price of the car.

I am for freedom of choice, do your own thing, enjoy your car, but when you tune, then race, even from stop light to stop light and something goes wrong, man up, accept your responsibility and fix it yourself, don't go whining to the VW dealer.

Hence the well over used phrase Pay to Play

[Beets]

Even if a VW dealer is a Tune shop and they are "Mod friendly", etc., if you have a catastrophic/major failure with the engine, transmission and the dealer needs VW of A's assistance for a new engine/trans etc., VW of A will want some info on the car, like hook up the computer, check the ECU info and when it shows TUNE they will not be giving the dealer a new engine.

So how long will the dealer be mod friendly if it ends up coming out of his pocket. Reading all the threads about, launching, tire spin, over torque codes, etc., between the mods and operator/driver inexperience, many of the modded ( and some non modded) cars are being abused, ie operated outside of the parameters that VW has designed them for.

Personally, i don't want VW to support problems caused by abuse, ie operator dogging the car because as VW compiles the statistics and they calculate maintenance (warranty costs) it will increase the price of the car.

I am for freedom of choice, do your own thing, enjoy your car, but when you tune, then race, even from stop light to stop light and something goes wrong, man up, accept your responsibility and fix it yourself, don't go whining to the VW dealer.

Hence the well over used phrase Pay to Play

Well said!!

[ridgemanron]

At least my windshield wiper blades were replaced at no cost. Look's like if I go to K04 or
Stage III, no more free wiper rubbers. Have to therefore rethink those possible upgrades.
Here's a complete list of items still covered by VW:
1. window motor
2. window motor gear guides
3. radio
4. Hmmmm!

I'm sure there are other things, it's just that I'm going to have to give it some more thought.

[Carbon Steel]

Yes, there are many things that VW will still have to warranty, regardless of tune, springs etc., and they should ie like your wiper blades, battery for a limited time period, certainly the window debacle and other items, like the radio etc., air-conditioning unit etc. etc. etc. And most of those things will never fail, but if they do, there won't be a question when bringing the car in. VW will honor the warranty on those items.

The dealership that we are getting the 2013 turbo beetle from is an APR dealer and they do tunes, they have one experienced person who does them, he has a closed off room to perform the tunes, and they will be the first to tell you that it is a precise procedure and for now they will still, to the best of their ability, stand behind their work, ie if they are tuning you and touch the wrong pin, they will get you a new ECU. The question is how many engines, ECU's are they willing to buy/replace etc., before they stop being an APR dealer.

They will stop when it is no longer profitable.

So where will you be if a major issue occurs if you have to relocate/transferred to a new job, on a trip across country in your car, still in the same location, but the dealer decided it is no longer profitable so they changed their policy.

VW will still be in business following their rules, but your dealership may not be able to support you.

And as you probably can imagine a warranty is important to me, why i am willing to accept major depreciation when i drive it off the lot. If my car fails to start, stumbles, misses, makes weird noises, goes to the limp mode, etc. I call the dealer, send a roll back pick up my car and fix it. No stress, bumper to bumper for 36K, then it is time for a new one.

I don't want to come off as a know it all, it is just as we progress through life our priorities change and this is where i am at now.

[Derby Herbie]

it doenst work that way.. u need to code the ECU with ur VIN to work which will cost **** load of $$$

Thanks for the scoop...I kinda figured it wasn't easy. Was just hoping.

HPA, the tuning specialist from Canada, is offering their ECU upgrade at an actual VW dealer,
Linden VW of N.J.. There very well may be other VW dealerships that are are 'upgrade' friendly
and perhaps HPA can direct you to one near you if you're concerned about the warranty? The
Stage I type ECU upgrade is offered throughout all Volvo dealerships, called Polestar, and I
would think that forward thinking VW dealerships may very well be coming on board as well.

I may seek out an APR/VW dealer in TC area...if there is one here. This town is kinda lame that way. Thanks for the info!

[Derby Herbie]

Yes, there are many things that VW will still have to warranty, regardless of tune, springs etc., and they should ie like your wiper blades, battery for a limited time period, certainly the window debacle and other items, like the radio etc., air-conditioning unit etc. etc. etc. And most of those things will never fail, but if they do, there won't be a question when bringing the car in. VW will honor the warranty on those items.

The dealership that we are getting the 2013 turbo beetle from is an APR dealer and they do tunes, they have one experienced person who does them, he has a closed off room to perform the tunes, and they will be the first to tell you that it is a precise procedure and for now they will still, to the best of their ability, stand behind their work, ie if they are tuning you and touch the wrong pin, they will get you a new ECU. The question is how many engines, ECU's are they willing to buy/replace etc., before they stop being an APR dealer.

They will stop when it is no longer profitable.

So where will you be if a major issue occurs if you have to relocate/transferred to a new job, on a trip across country in your car, still in the same location, but the dealer decided it is no longer profitable so they changed their policy.

VW will still be in business following their rules, but your dealership may not be able to support you.

And as you probably can imagine a warranty is important to me, why i am willing to accept major depreciation when i drive it off the lot. If my car fails to start, stumbles, misses, makes weird noises, goes to the limp mode, etc. I call the dealer, send a roll back pick up my car and fix it. No stress, bumper to bumper for 36K, then it is time for a new one.

I don't want to come off as a know it all, it is just as we progress through life our priorities change and this is where i am at now.

I really like the comfort of warranty too....would be nice if VW would at least have a factory-authorized performace chip to boost power 50hp. With stipulation that if car gets beat on (and now days they can pretty much tell), warranty would be voided. They may start losing some sales to other manufacturers that are more mod friendly.

[ridgemanron]

If you are able to be directed to a VW Motorsports Dep't at an actual VW dealership, talk
to them concerning their performance upgrades. Personally, I don't see where a simple
Stage I upgrade would adversely affect your car but let them explain the pro's, and con's
if any, that you should be aware of. I can see ECU's being 'Flashed' by dealers overseeing
the upgrade and charging you for it like Volvo does. I don't believe Volvo goes higher than
a 45hp gain with their Polestar, which would basically be a 'Stage I' upgrade.

[Derby Herbie]

If you are able to be directed to a VW Motorsports Dep't at an actual VW dealership, talk
to them concerning their performance upgrades. Personally, I don't see where a simple
Stage I upgrade would adversely affect your car but let them explain the pro's, and con's
if any, that you should be aware of. I can see ECU's being 'Flashed' by dealers overseeing
the upgrade and charging you for it like Volvo does. I don't believe Volvo goes higher than
a 45hp gain with their Polestar, which would basically be a 'Stage I' upgrade.

Sadly, the only APR dealers locally are independent performance shops.....Closest VW dealer/APR shops are 400 miles away in Chicago.

Just thought of something so simple......I'll just clone my car

Hopefully come spring I'll do the APR Stage I....."Barbrro" has the need for speed.

[ridgemanron]

Interestingly, all the APR dealers locally are independent performance shops.....Closest VW/APR shops are 400 miles away in Chicago.

Just thought of something so simple......I'll just clone my car

Hopefully come spring I'll do the APR Stage I....."Barbrro" has the need for speed.

'WHOOSH !' is something all drivers dream of experiencing at one time or another.

[Derby Herbie]

'WHOOSH !' is something all drivers dream of experiencing at one time or another.

For sure! Do you know how fuel economy with APR vs. stock is, when driven less aggressively?

[drtechy]

For sure! Do you know how fuel economy with APR vs. stock is, when driven less aggressively?

I gained about 3mpg on stage I, I'll be going stage 2 this week, probably won't see any more gains in mpg though

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[cbugrun]

This thread is really getting old. If you are worried that an ECU tune will void your warranty then don't do it. Otherwise shut up and move on to another subject. Hopefully something positive.

[plex03]

I gained about 3mpg on stage I, I'll be going stage 2 this week, probably won't see any more gains in mpg though

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I've seen about the same. I will say though that if you really watch the getting on the throttle and observing posted speed limits that I've gotten upwards of 40MPG in CITY driving.

[plex03]

This thread is really getting old. If you are worried that an ECU tune will void your warranty then don't do it. Otherwise shut up and move on to another subject. Hopefully something positive.

Why the hostility? Remember that there are still some people who are new owners and they too, can get info here.

[cbugrun]

Why the hostility? Remember that there are still some people who are new owners and they too, can get info here.

I am not hostile. I am just sick and tire of listening to the same crap about flashing ECU's over and over and over again. I assume we are all big boys and girls on this forum and understand the risks of our decisions. This subject has been covered at infinitum on this and other car forums. Its been beat into the ground many many times. All I am saying enough already. Lets move on to something else.

[Derby Herbie]

I gained about 3mpg on stage I, I'll be going stage 2 this week, probably won't see any more gains in mpg though

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Thanks for the input! Good to know. At this point, I'll probably wait til spring to do it...but just want to do all my homework beforehand to know exactly all the economic implications are.

I've seen about the same. I will say though that if you really watch the getting on the throttle and observing posted speed limits that I've gotten upwards of 40MPG in CITY driving.

Thanks for the info Plex! I really feel the engine needs that extra torque/hp. Currently, mine lugs pretty easily in first gear without just the right rev/clutch play on my manual, especially on a hill.

[Derby Herbie]

This thread is really getting old. If you are worried that an ECU tune will void your warranty then don't do it. Otherwise shut up and move on to another subject. Hopefully something positive.

I am not hostile. I am just sick and tire of listening to the same crap about flashing ECU's over and over and over again. I assume we are all big boys and girls on this forum and understand the risks of our decisions. This subject has been covered at infinitum on this and other car forums. Its been beat into the ground many many times. All I am saying enough already. Lets move on to something else.

Wow....not hostile, eh? Really?? Last time I checked, this is a VW chat site that allows members to seek info/input on topics related to the Beetle. If you're tired of this topic, and from YOUR perspective, feel its been over-discussed, there's a simple solution FOR YOU....Simply stay off the thread.

There are many topics here I no longer have interest in, and may personally feel have been over-discussed, but its not my place to interject that on said thread....any more than it is yours. The decision on whether or not to chip or not may be casual to you, but its not to me. And its a decision I will deliberate on until spring....and if that means posting questions on this or other "old threads" from time to time, I will continue to do so.

[silverspeedbuggy]

This is supposed to be an informative and positive forum. This new model will not only attract new people to VWs, but to modding their cars as well. Not everyone is familiar with chipping or flashing ECUs. Lets be supportive here please.

[drtechy]

This is supposed to be an informative and positive forum. This new model will not only attract new people to VWs, but to modding their cars as well. Not everyone is familiar with chipping or flashing ECUs. Lets be supportive here please.

Are you sure? I thought this was the internet lmao

Just playin

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[cbugrun]

Wow....not hostile, eh? Really?? Last time I checked, this is a VW chat site that allows members to seek info/input on topics related to the Beetle. If you're tired of this topic, and from YOUR perspective, feel its been over-discussed, there's a simple solution FOR YOU....Simply stay off the thread.

There are many topics here I no longer have interest in, and may personally feel have been over-discussed, but its not my place to interject that on said thread....any more than it is yours. The decision on whether or not to chip or not may be casual to you, but its not to me. And its a decision I will deliberate on until spring....and if that means posting questions on this or other "old threads" from time to time, I will continue to do so.

I guess my comments may have been a little too strong and for that I apologize. I do not feel flashing the ECU unit is a casual decision. I sought the advise of many people before I decided to go for it although this is not the first time I have done it. I totally understand the warranty risks involved but I felt the benefits out weighed the risks especially since my dealer recommended the APR Stage I tune to me. In fact, their dealership in Florida is an approved APR dealer. I was told by my dealer that as long as I did not go beyond the Stage I tune they will not have a problem covering any warranty issues. With that said, the power increase is amazing and my gas milage has gotten much better. I also installed a Carbonio carbon fiber cold air induction system which when added to the Stage I tune increased my horsepower to 265 and torque to 307. No issues to report to date and the car drives beautifully. So from my perspective I would say go for it if you want more power and less turbo lag but if you are concerned about it voiding your warranty then don't do it. I have read about flashing or not flashing so many time I must have had a moment when I made my original post. Sorry if I ruffled any feathers.

[ridgemanron]

After reaching APR's Stage 2 in my six-speed TB, I'm seriously leaning toward an upgraded
clutch. This will be a 'must' when going to K04 a few months from now but I'm even concerned
now with the torque in the low 300's. Southbend has a Stage 2 Daily clutch kit that goes up to
400 ft/lbs but still retains the OEM characteristics while also having a silent design built into
it. I've been quoted $600 for the install and now have to find the best price for the clutch kit.

[Derby Herbie]

This is supposed to be an informative and positive forum. This new model will not only attract new people to VWs, but to modding their cars as well. Not everyone is familiar with chipping or flashing ECUs. Lets be supportive here please.

Thank You!

I guess my comments may have been a little too strong and for that I apologize. I do not feel flashing the ECU unit is a casual decision. I sought the advise of many people before I decided to go for it although this is not the first time I have done it. I totally understand the warranty risks involved but I felt the benefits out weighed the risks especially since my dealer recommended the APR Stage I tune to me. In fact, their dealership in Florida is an approved APR dealer. I was told by my dealer that as long as I did not go beyond the Stage I tune they will not have a problem covering any warranty issues. With that said, the power increase is amazing and my gas milage has gotten much better. I also installed a Carbonio carbon fiber cold air induction system which when added to the Stage I tune increased my horsepower to 265 and torque to 307. No issues to report to date and the car drives beautifully. So from my perspective I would say go for it if you want more power and less turbo lag but if you are concerned about it voiding your warranty then don't do it. I have read about flashing or not flashing so many time I must have had a moment when I made my original post. Sorry if I ruffled any feathers.

No hard feelings. I've done the same from time to time on other forums. We've all been on both sides at one time or another. Thanks for the feedback on your experience with APR, I appreciate it

I'm thinking if the stock engine has any defects to speak of, they'll show up by this winter when we get some severe sub-zero temps up here....cold starts are a real test. After it passes that test, come spring its APR time!

[cbugrun]

Thank You!



No hard feelings. I've done the same from time to time on other forums. We've all been on both sides at one time or another. Thanks for the feedback on your experience with APR, I appreciate it

I'm thinking if the stock engine has any defects to speak of, they'll show up by this winter when we get some severe sub-zero temps up here....cold starts are a real test. After it passes that test, come spring its APR time!

Thanks and good luck.

[Derby Herbie]

Thanks and good luck.

Thank You!

[Catarpillar]

How come i havent heard of anyone buying a replacement ecu from the service dept and having that one flashed and then just swapping in the old ecu when going in to the dship? It would only cost 1300$ plucs the cost of the ecu flash from apr or wherever and you would have a Track day" ecu and another to swap in for repairs.

problem solved

your welcome

[drtechy]

How come i havent heard of anyone buying a replacement ecu from the service dept and having that one flashed and then just swapping in the old ecu when going in to the dship? It would only cost 1300$ plucs the cost of the ecu flash from apr or wherever and you would have a Track day" ecu and another to swap in for repairs.

problem solved

your welcome

Not sure where you got that price from but another ecu is about $3k, also you can't just swap them back and forth. The ecu would have to be "married" to rest of the electronics in the car everytime you swap and inthink only the dealership can do that. At least thats how it was explained to me.

posted by Tapatalk

[plex03]

Not sure where you got that price from but another ecu is about $3k, also you can't just swap them back and forth. The ecu would have to be "married" to rest of the electronics in the car everytime you swap and inthink only the dealership can do that. At least thats how it was explained to me.

posted by Tapatalk

THIS.

That's exactly what I've been told as well.

The great thing with APR is that your ECU upgrade is tied to your VIN so if you ever need to wipe their tune completely off it, they will and then after service they will reinstall the software.

Some will do it N/C, some won't but if anything it'll be a minimum labor charge.