Any chance the GTD will ever make it to the states in this platform??

[NotQuiteWes]

Well? I mean, I'd love to see that....but...

[GTI Fanboy]

The GTD is a terrific car over here in Aus. Doesn't even sound like a Diesel.

[bluerabbit0886]

I want the GTD badly. I hope they decide to bring it for the mk7, but I won't hold my breath...

[hhaller]

I believe I read that the GTD was under consideration for the North American market. Just like the Passat Alltrack is under consideration.

I wouldn't get my hopes up though--if VW can't make a business case for it here, we won't see it.

[dreamerak]

http://blog.caranddriver.com/vw-conf...ould-come-too/

[Waterfan]

Pricing the potential 2013 (or 2014?) US GTD will be a challenge.

The current Golf TDI is a 'loaded' model that is basically the same price as a base GTI (~25k).

I'd love to see the GTD at about the same exact price as the GTI. If so this is a straight tradeoff of power for fuel economy.

However, I suspect the GTD will sell for a ~2k premium over the GTI. Yes, fuel cost savings OVER time is substantial and perhaps enough to justify premium pricing. GTD could be an especially tempting option for anyone who does a A LOT of city driving (recoup the premium pricing with fuel cost savings in ~2 years), or for anyone that keeps their car more than 5 years.

100% City Driving*
GTI Fuel Cost = $3200
GTD Fuel Cost = $2250
GTD Fuel Cost Savings = $950 / year

Combined Driving*
GTI Fuel Cost = $2650
GTD Fuel Cost = $1950
GTD Fuel Cost Savings = $700 / year

100% Hwy Driving*
GTI Fuel Cost = $2100
GTD Fuel Cost = $1600
GTD Fuel Cost Savings = $500 / year


*assumptions:
15k miles/year, $4.439 premium, $4.479 diesel (today's best prices in my area)
GTI 22 city / 32 hwy / 25 combined
GTD 30 city / 42 hwy / 34 combined

[randomkoreanguy]

This is just an educated guess, but I'm going to posit the theory that in an effort to meet their (extremely) ambitious sales goals (and plans for global automotive domination) VWAG (and by proxy, VWOA) are in the midst of considering expanding their line-up to every niche, nook, cranny, and unexplored/unexploited profitable segment they can possibly sink their teeth into. What does this mean for us enthusiasts? It means there's a pretty good chance that there's a lot of exciting things on the horizon. Let's face it, aggressive expansion is working out pretty well for Hyundai/Kia, whereas the more conservative companies are either suffering or stagnating. VW/Audi have to nearly double their current sales numbers to meet their pretty ambitious 2018 sales goals in our market and they can't do that by just continuing to offer the same model range they always have.

So I theorize that currently, everything is on the table, everything is being considered. Diesel has proven to be unexpectedly popular and hugely profitable for VW stateside, so the expansion of their diesel line-up is a no-brainer, in my opinion.

[dmorrow]

Pricing the potential 2013 (or 2014?) US GTD will be a challenge.

The current Golf TDI is a 'loaded' model that is basically the same price as a base GTI (~25k).

I'd love to see the GTD at about the same exact price as the GTI. If so this is a straight tradeoff of power for fuel economy.

However, I suspect the GTD will sell for a ~2k premium over the GTI. Yes, fuel cost savings OVER time is substantial and perhaps enough to justify premium pricing. GTD could be an especially tempting option for anyone who does a A LOT of city driving (recoup the premium pricing with fuel cost savings in ~2 years), or for anyone that keeps their car more than 5 years.

100% City Driving*
GTI Fuel Cost = $3200
GTD Fuel Cost = $2250
GTD Fuel Cost Savings = $950 / year

Combined Driving*
GTI Fuel Cost = $2650
GTD Fuel Cost = $1950
GTD Fuel Cost Savings = $700 / year

100% Hwy Driving*
GTI Fuel Cost = $2100
GTD Fuel Cost = $1600
GTD Fuel Cost Savings = $500 / year


*assumptions:
15k miles/year, $4.439 premium, $4.479 diesel (today's best prices in my area)
GTI 22 city / 32 hwy / 25 combined
GTD 30 city / 42 hwy / 34 combined

Based on the Department of Energy website, with 15,000 miles of driving in combined driving I would save $500 per year with the regular diesel over the GTI. I would assume the GTD's mileage would be lower and the savings even smaller per year.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find....31200&id=31576

Your fuel prices are much higher than they estimate (or I pay) so this may be some of the difference. Where did you get the GTD mileage numbers as they are higher than what the site above has for the TDI? This just from estimating the numbers are higher than EPA estimates?

[feels_road]

As I posted in the other thread, the MT 2.0TDI is listed as 5.0/4.1/3.6 l/100km, or 47/57/65 US mpg in the Euro cycle. I would guess from that an EPA listing of about 36/46/56. Then, something like 33/42/51 for the GTD wouldn't be all that unrealistic (or perhaps 30/40/51 without start/stop technology). DSG would likely be 10% less.

As to the fuel prices, they are even higher, here. Of course just temporarily, due to the Gulf hurricane and recent refinery fire in the Bay Area.

[Waterfan]

Where did you get the GTD mileage numbers as they are higher than what the site above has for the TDI? This just from estimating the numbers are higher than EPA estimates?

I just used the current US Golf TDI economy numbers for a better, but not perfect apples to apples (based on US cars)

[Waterfan]

...33/42/51 for the GTD wouldn't be all that unrealistic (or perhaps 30/40/51 without start/stop technology). DSG would likely be 10% less.

If that "42" for 180hp GTD is combined city/hwy, that seems VERY ambitious given the current Golf TDI (140hp) only claims 42 hwy.

[feels_road]

If that "42" for 180hp GTD is combined city/hwy, that seems VERY ambitious given the current Golf TDI (140hp) only claims 42 hwy.

I know, but, well, what can I do? The regular 2.0 is listed as 47mpg Euro city cycle - how much do you want me to reduce that?

Of course, it is impossible to just get 42 mpg with the current one on the highway, too (meaning, realistically, that with the MT you are closer to 50 or above). The thing is that the EPA cycle doesn't challenge the engine enough, which is most efficient when some significant power is actually used.

[dogbolter]

Seems Automobile mag has one for testing...

[merog]

source??

[dje31]

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...olkswagen_gtd/

[Canthoney]

Well? I mean, I'd love to see that....but...

I think yes! Auto and NY Times were testing it and, I think VWoA was trying to gauge peoples reaction and interest in it. Overall it was pretty positive.


"Rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated"
- Mark Twain

[gtitrini]

It's funny that VW sent them one in that bright green paint. So as they are driving it around, EVERYONE will be drawn to it.
I would totally buy it.

[Turbonium20V]

If that "42" for 180hp GTD is combined city/hwy, that seems VERY ambitious given the current Golf TDI (140hp) only claims 42 hwy.

It is proven that all the US TDI lineup is highly underrated. I currently drive a 2012 6M TDI Passat rated at 43MPG HWY and I have seen as high as 57MPG HWY. My combined calculated average is 46MPG without even trying. If they bring the GTD I will get one for sure!

[Waterfan]

My assumptions were just that, assumptions.

It is a fact that any GTD will have lower fuel costs than any GTI.

My main point was that I expect the GTD to have premium pricing over the GTI and I was trying to demonstrate how long it would take to 'breakeven'. The larger the gap, the more savings with the GTD and the faster the payback.

If the US GTD is the same price as the GTI my pricing assumption is moot and we can make a straight choice between power vs. fuel economy. This will be a very tough choice for me, and either way, I can't lose. (unless the US isn't really going to get the GTD)

[rs_t]

If you get it, remember to order it with DSG box. 170TDi engine is not well suited to a manual.

[boostin20]

i would love to see it come here, but I have the same concern that many potential tdi owners have. Will the US fuel cause the hpfp to fail on this new VII just like the VI? I read it was a different engine with new injection system, but I wonder if it's the same old hpfp. I need to figure that out; if so, I'm buying a gti.

[Turbonium20V]

i would love to see it come here, but I have the same concern that many potential tdi owners have. Will the US fuel cause the hpfp to fail on this new VII just like the VI? I read it was a different engine with new injection system, but I wonder if it's the same old hpfp. I need to figure that out; if so, I'm buying a gti.

99% of that was misfueling

[VR6Now]

99% of that was misfueling

Don't think you have the data to support that. The VW data sent to NHTSA doesn't even support a 99% misfueling rate. VW has been hanging the problem on 'poor fuel quality' in many situations.

[boostin20]

99% of that was misfueling

LOL, wrong.

[feels_road]

If you get it, remember to order it with DSG box. 170TDi engine is not well suited to a manual.

What? The DSG can hardly handle the stock torque smoothly, and uses 10% more fuel, to boot. And the new GTD will more likely have 180 - 185 hp - give me a MT, please.

i would love to see it come here, but I have the same concern that many potential tdi owners have.

Many? I only have seen a very few (except in TDIclub, which is OCD city).

99% of that was misfueling

90%, for sure (and at times by the early, uneducated mechanics and salespeople at dealerships.) Beyond that, most of it likely contaminated fuel or small amounts of misfueling, since the problem is virtually unheard of in Europe - and things seem to have quieted down, considerably, in the past year.

There are something like 200,000 very happy TDI owners in the US without a fuel pump issue.

[boostin20]

All I was asking was if anyone knew if the new hpfp/fuel system was different besides just the injectors. I didn't want to completely de-rail the thread, but since it already is, here goes.

Bosch designed the hpfp for euro spec diesel, and recommend using fuel with an atsm spec of 460 microns. What's available in the US is 520 microns. They recognize that the pump could self-destruct with >460 microns. Why not just add a little B2 or stanadyne? VW says in writing not to do that, and it could possibly effect the warranty. If you guys do some research, you'll find most people have gone as far as keeping all fuel receipts and having samples of their fuel tank and local gas station tested in their fight against trigger happy techs and reps who automatically assume an owner put some gas (petrol) in their tank. Why don't more people boycott the tdi? Because we don't have any other great options at this point; hybrids just aren't good enough yet.

I'm happy for you guys in EU and other parts of the world who don't have this issue b/c your fuel provides the recommended lubricity, but here in the US it's a real concern. I have tremendous hopes that the VII US-spec diesel will have solved this issue.

[rs_t]

What? The DSG can hardly handle the stock torque smoothly, and uses 10% more fuel, to boot. And the new GTD will more likely have 180 - 185 hp - give me a MT, please.

The DSG have no problem with the Torque of the 2.0TDi. I have a 2.0TDi 170 manual, and it’s a very different engine and feel to the 1.9 TDi 130 for example. The turbo kicks in late, and there is a lot of shifting needed to operate the car effective and smooth. The power band is quite narrow. If you have a lot of heavy traffic driving there is a constant first to second shifting going on, and for highway driving the 6th gear is not as flexible as you would expect for a diesel engine. I used to have a 1.9TDi 130 hp, and both original and remapped it was much more suited to a manual. Both my current 2.0TDi 170 and my previous 1.9 130 are 6-speed. I have put in many diesel miles for the last years. Long trips, city driving and track driving. (Only interrupted by 3 years with a 2.0TFSi which is a much more fun engine than the diesel anyway) The best diesel car I have driven beside the fantastic A5 3.0TDi (Which is perfectly suited to a manual) is the Golf GTD DSG. Perfect gearbox for that engine. My buddy has a 140TDi, and with the smaller Turbo and different management, it’s a better engine for everyday driving with manual. Much less lag, and smother curve. Of course slower when going full out, but how often is that. Don't get me wrong; the 170hp manual is ok. But after a year of getting to really know it I regret getting a manual. I’m going back to 2.0T petrol next year due to no more commuting. Can’t wait!

[feels_road]

Why not just add a little B2 or stanadyne? ...
I'm happy for you guys in EU and other parts of the world who don't have this issue b/c your fuel provides the recommended lubricity, but here in the US it's a real concern. I have tremendous hopes that the VII US-spec diesel will have solved this issue.

Some Diesel providers in the US indicate that they add BioDiesel at a low percentage to raise lubricity. At any rate, as of 2012, there seems to be no more concern regarding TDI fuel pumps.

[dreamerak]

Any news on the Golf VII GTD?

[Turbonium20V]

All I was asking was if anyone knew if the new hpfp/fuel system was different besides just the injectors. I didn't want to completely de-rail the thread, but since it already is, here goes.

Bosch designed the hpfp for euro spec diesel, and recommend using fuel with an atsm spec of 460 microns. What's available in the US is 520 microns. They recognize that the pump could self-destruct with >460 microns. Why not just add a little B2 or stanadyne? VW says in writing not to do that, and it could possibly effect the warranty. If you guys do some research, you'll find most people have gone as far as keeping all fuel receipts and having samples of their fuel tank and local gas station tested in their fight against trigger happy techs and reps who automatically assume an owner put some gas (petrol) in their tank. Why don't more people boycott the tdi? Because we don't have any other great options at this point; hybrids just aren't good enough yet.

I'm happy for you guys in EU and other parts of the world who don't have this issue b/c your fuel provides the recommended lubricity, but here in the US it's a real concern. I have tremendous hopes that the VII US-spec diesel will have solved this issue.

Much better info than "LOL, wrong. " As for this info I think VW already corrected the issue with self destructive pumps, at least for the last gen of TDIs. I haven't heard of anybody having this problem anymore.(at least with the urea injected ones)

[zigster38]

This is just an educated guess, but I'm going to posit the theory that in an effort to meet their (extremely) ambitious sales goals (and plans for global automotive domination) VWAG (and by proxy, VWOA) are in the midst of considering expanding their line-up to every niche, nook, cranny, and unexplored/unexploited profitable segment they can possibly sink their teeth into. What does this mean for us enthusiasts? It means there's a pretty good chance that there's a lot of exciting things on the horizon. Let's face it, aggressive expansion is working out pretty well for Hyundai/Kia, whereas the more conservative companies are either suffering or stagnating. VW/Audi have to nearly double their current sales numbers to meet their pretty ambitious 2018 sales goals in our market and they can't do that by just continuing to offer the same model range they always have.

So I theorize that currently, everything is on the table, everything is being considered. Diesel has proven to be unexpectedly popular and hugely profitable for VW stateside, so the expansion of their diesel line-up is a no-brainer, in my opinion.

This.

In addition, the new Golf/Jetta with the new 1.8 turbo's will approach the combined mileage of the currect TDI, so the TDI itself will have to be greatly upgraded, probably to the new 180 hp version with 50mpg.

[boostin20]

Much better info than "LOL, wrong. " As for this info I think VW already corrected the issue with self destructive pumps, at least for the last gen of TDIs. I haven't heard of anybody having this problem anymore.(at least with the urea injected ones)

You're absolutely correct about the urea injected vehicles, but that excludes the CR golfs, jettas, and passats (at least for the US, I don't know about EU models). There are hundreds of cases of hpfp failures already in the '12+ passat, a3, and golf with the supposed upgraded hpfp. That being said, those are a very small percentage compared to happy tdi owners in the US. I'm not trying to start a panic with any of this, but it is extremely disconcerting to see VWOA try to weasel their way out of a recall and try to stick an 8-10k bill on a customer. That's not too far off of half the value of the car new, and there's no guarantee it will not happen multiple times.

There are a few vendors working together on a bracket to fit the cummins hpfp on the CR. That looks like it will be the ultimate fix. (of course warranty will be void)

[feels_road]

I'm not trying to start a panic with any of this, but it is extremely disconcerting to see VWOA try to weasel their way out of a recall and try to stick an 8-10k bill on a customer.

Well, so far, VW has footed the bill for repairs - even in cases when people had fueled up with gasoline (that latter practice might end now, though).

A great fix would be if it were possible to install a filter behind the HPFP. The pump itself is peanuts.

[Heresy64]

If they bring the GTD to the US, I'll trade my R for it the first day I can get one.

[PABers]

I would like to see it, but I am not holding my breath.