Well? I mean, I'd love to see that....but...
Pricing the potential 2013 (or 2014?) US GTD will be a challenge.
The current Golf TDI is a 'loaded' model that is basically the same price as a base GTI (~25k).
I'd love to see the GTD at about the same exact price as the GTI. If so this is a straight tradeoff of power for fuel economy.
However, I suspect the GTD will sell for a ~2k premium over the GTI. Yes, fuel cost savings OVER time is substantial and perhaps enough to justify premium pricing. GTD could be an especially tempting option for anyone who does a A LOT of city driving (recoup the premium pricing with fuel cost savings in ~2 years), or for anyone that keeps their car more than 5 years.
100% City Driving*
GTI Fuel Cost = $3200
GTD Fuel Cost = $2250
GTD Fuel Cost Savings = $950 / year
GTI Fuel Cost = $2650
GTD Fuel Cost = $1950
GTD Fuel Cost Savings = $700 / year
100% Hwy Driving*
GTI Fuel Cost = $2100
GTD Fuel Cost = $1600
GTD Fuel Cost Savings = $500 / year
15k miles/year, $4.439 premium, $4.479 diesel (today's best prices in my area)
GTI 22 city / 32 hwy / 25 combined
GTD 30 city / 42 hwy / 34 combined
This is just an educated guess, but I'm going to posit the theory that in an effort to meet their (extremely) ambitious sales goals (and plans for global automotive domination) VWAG (and by proxy, VWOA) are in the midst of considering expanding their line-up to every niche, nook, cranny, and unexplored/unexploited profitable segment they can possibly sink their teeth into. What does this mean for us enthusiasts? It means there's a pretty good chance that there's a lot of exciting things on the horizon. Let's face it, aggressive expansion is working out pretty well for Hyundai/Kia, whereas the more conservative companies are either suffering or stagnating. VW/Audi have to nearly double their current sales numbers to meet their pretty ambitious 2018 sales goals in our market and they can't do that by just continuing to offer the same model range they always have.
So I theorize that currently, everything is on the table, everything is being considered. Diesel has proven to be unexpectedly popular and hugely profitable for VW stateside, so the expansion of their diesel line-up is a no-brainer, in my opinion.
There’s more to it than that, though. I feel the fast Golf is a part of me. We’ve grown up together. When it came along, all simple and full of fun, I was living in a flat in London. Now it’s soft and luxurious and I’m slouched in a house in the Cotswolds. It’s like 1970s rock music. New stuff comes along which I’m sure is cleaner and better produced but it doesn’t have the heart and soul of the original.
Based on the Department of Energy website, with 15,000 miles of driving in combined driving I would save $500 per year with the regular diesel over the GTI. I would assume the GTD's mileage would be lower and the savings even smaller per year.
Your fuel prices are much higher than they estimate (or I pay) so this may be some of the difference. Where did you get the GTD mileage numbers as they are higher than what the site above has for the TDI? This just from estimating the numbers are higher than EPA estimates?
As I posted in the other thread, the MT 2.0TDI is listed as 5.0/4.1/3.6 l/100km, or 47/57/65 US mpg in the Euro cycle. I would guess from that an EPA listing of about 36/46/56. Then, something like 33/42/51 for the GTD wouldn't be all that unrealistic (or perhaps 30/40/51 without start/stop technology). DSG would likely be 10% less.
As to the fuel prices, they are even higher, here. Of course just temporarily, due to the Gulf hurricane and recent refinery fire in the Bay Area.
Aung San Suu Kyi
Of course, it is impossible to just get 42 mpg with the current one on the highway, too (meaning, realistically, that with the MT you are closer to 50 or above). The thing is that the EPA cycle doesn't challenge the engine enough, which is most efficient when some significant power is actually used.
Aung San Suu Kyi
My assumptions were just that, assumptions.
It is a fact that any GTD will have lower fuel costs than any GTI.
My main point was that I expect the GTD to have premium pricing over the GTI and I was trying to demonstrate how long it would take to 'breakeven'. The larger the gap, the more savings with the GTD and the faster the payback.
If the US GTD is the same price as the GTI my pricing assumption is moot and we can make a straight choice between power vs. fuel economy. This will be a very tough choice for me, and either way, I can't lose. (unless the US isn't really going to get the GTD)
i would love to see it come here, but I have the same concern that many potential tdi owners have. Will the US fuel cause the hpfp to fail on this new VII just like the VI? I read it was a different engine with new injection system, but I wonder if it's the same old hpfp. I need to figure that out; if so, I'm buying a gti.
There are something like 200,000 very happy TDI owners in the US without a fuel pump issue.
Aung San Suu Kyi
All I was asking was if anyone knew if the new hpfp/fuel system was different besides just the injectors. I didn't want to completely de-rail the thread, but since it already is, here goes.
Bosch designed the hpfp for euro spec diesel, and recommend using fuel with an atsm spec of 460 microns. What's available in the US is 520 microns. They recognize that the pump could self-destruct with >460 microns. Why not just add a little B2 or stanadyne? VW says in writing not to do that, and it could possibly effect the warranty. If you guys do some research, you'll find most people have gone as far as keeping all fuel receipts and having samples of their fuel tank and local gas station tested in their fight against trigger happy techs and reps who automatically assume an owner put some gas (petrol) in their tank. Why don't more people boycott the tdi? Because we don't have any other great options at this point; hybrids just aren't good enough yet.
I'm happy for you guys in EU and other parts of the world who don't have this issue b/c your fuel provides the recommended lubricity, but here in the US it's a real concern. I have tremendous hopes that the VII US-spec diesel will have solved this issue.
Last edited by rs_t; 09-25-2012 at 01:16 PM.
Last edited by Turbonium20V; 10-07-2012 at 05:27 PM.
There are a few vendors working together on a bracket to fit the cummins hpfp on the CR. That looks like it will be the ultimate fix. (of course warranty will be void)
Aung San Suu Kyi