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    Thread: Any chance the GTD will ever make it to the states in this platform??

    1. Member NotQuiteWes's Avatar
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      09-08-2012 04:05 AM #1
      Well? I mean, I'd love to see that....but...

    2. Member GTI Fanboy's Avatar
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      09-08-2012 05:26 AM #2
      The GTD is a terrific car over here in Aus. Doesn't even sound like a Diesel.

    3. Member bluerabbit0886's Avatar
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      09-08-2012 09:13 AM #3
      I want the GTD badly. I hope they decide to bring it for the mk7, but I won't hold my breath...
      Quote Originally Posted by butterface View Post
      It isn't whether a government can represent its people that is the best measure of its effectiveness. Rather, it's whether a government is designed to leave its people alone.

    4. 09-08-2012 04:05 PM #4
      I believe I read that the GTD was under consideration for the North American market. Just like the Passat Alltrack is under consideration.

      I wouldn't get my hopes up though--if VW can't make a business case for it here, we won't see it.

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      09-08-2012 06:58 PM #5

    6. Member Waterfan's Avatar
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      09-10-2012 04:54 PM #6
      Pricing the potential 2013 (or 2014?) US GTD will be a challenge.

      The current Golf TDI is a 'loaded' model that is basically the same price as a base GTI (~25k).

      I'd love to see the GTD at about the same exact price as the GTI. If so this is a straight tradeoff of power for fuel economy.

      However, I suspect the GTD will sell for a ~2k premium over the GTI. Yes, fuel cost savings OVER time is substantial and perhaps enough to justify premium pricing. GTD could be an especially tempting option for anyone who does a A LOT of city driving (recoup the premium pricing with fuel cost savings in ~2 years), or for anyone that keeps their car more than 5 years.

      100% City Driving*
      GTI Fuel Cost = $3200
      GTD Fuel Cost = $2250
      GTD Fuel Cost Savings = $950 / year

      Combined Driving*
      GTI Fuel Cost = $2650
      GTD Fuel Cost = $1950
      GTD Fuel Cost Savings = $700 / year

      100% Hwy Driving*
      GTI Fuel Cost = $2100
      GTD Fuel Cost = $1600
      GTD Fuel Cost Savings = $500 / year


      *assumptions:
      15k miles/year, $4.439 premium, $4.479 diesel (today's best prices in my area)
      GTI 22 city / 32 hwy / 25 combined
      GTD 30 city / 42 hwy / 34 combined

    7. Member randomkoreanguy's Avatar
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      09-11-2012 01:09 AM #7
      This is just an educated guess, but I'm going to posit the theory that in an effort to meet their (extremely) ambitious sales goals (and plans for global automotive domination) VWAG (and by proxy, VWOA) are in the midst of considering expanding their line-up to every niche, nook, cranny, and unexplored/unexploited profitable segment they can possibly sink their teeth into. What does this mean for us enthusiasts? It means there's a pretty good chance that there's a lot of exciting things on the horizon. Let's face it, aggressive expansion is working out pretty well for Hyundai/Kia, whereas the more conservative companies are either suffering or stagnating. VW/Audi have to nearly double their current sales numbers to meet their pretty ambitious 2018 sales goals in our market and they can't do that by just continuing to offer the same model range they always have.

      So I theorize that currently, everything is on the table, everything is being considered. Diesel has proven to be unexpectedly popular and hugely profitable for VW stateside, so the expansion of their diesel line-up is a no-brainer, in my opinion.
      There’s more to it than that, though. I feel the fast Golf is a part of me. We’ve grown up together. When it came along, all simple and full of fun, I was living in a flat in London. Now it’s soft and luxurious and I’m slouched in a house in the Cotswolds. It’s like 1970s rock music. New stuff comes along which I’m sure is cleaner and better produced but it doesn’t have the heart and soul of the original.

    8. Member dmorrow's Avatar
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      09-11-2012 08:51 AM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by Waterfan View Post
      Pricing the potential 2013 (or 2014?) US GTD will be a challenge.

      The current Golf TDI is a 'loaded' model that is basically the same price as a base GTI (~25k).

      I'd love to see the GTD at about the same exact price as the GTI. If so this is a straight tradeoff of power for fuel economy.

      However, I suspect the GTD will sell for a ~2k premium over the GTI. Yes, fuel cost savings OVER time is substantial and perhaps enough to justify premium pricing. GTD could be an especially tempting option for anyone who does a A LOT of city driving (recoup the premium pricing with fuel cost savings in ~2 years), or for anyone that keeps their car more than 5 years.

      100% City Driving*
      GTI Fuel Cost = $3200
      GTD Fuel Cost = $2250
      GTD Fuel Cost Savings = $950 / year

      Combined Driving*
      GTI Fuel Cost = $2650
      GTD Fuel Cost = $1950
      GTD Fuel Cost Savings = $700 / year

      100% Hwy Driving*
      GTI Fuel Cost = $2100
      GTD Fuel Cost = $1600
      GTD Fuel Cost Savings = $500 / year


      *assumptions:
      15k miles/year, $4.439 premium, $4.479 diesel (today's best prices in my area)
      GTI 22 city / 32 hwy / 25 combined
      GTD 30 city / 42 hwy / 34 combined

      Based on the Department of Energy website, with 15,000 miles of driving in combined driving I would save $500 per year with the regular diesel over the GTI. I would assume the GTD's mileage would be lower and the savings even smaller per year.

      http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find....31200&id=31576

      Your fuel prices are much higher than they estimate (or I pay) so this may be some of the difference. Where did you get the GTD mileage numbers as they are higher than what the site above has for the TDI? This just from estimating the numbers are higher than EPA estimates?

    9. Senior Member feels_road's Avatar
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      09-12-2012 02:09 AM #9
      As I posted in the other thread, the MT 2.0TDI is listed as 5.0/4.1/3.6 l/100km, or 47/57/65 US mpg in the Euro cycle. I would guess from that an EPA listing of about 36/46/56. Then, something like 33/42/51 for the GTD wouldn't be all that unrealistic (or perhaps 30/40/51 without start/stop technology). DSG would likely be 10% less.

      As to the fuel prices, they are even higher, here. Of course just temporarily, due to the Gulf hurricane and recent refinery fire in the Bay Area.
      Aung San Suu Kyi

    10. Member Waterfan's Avatar
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      09-12-2012 04:12 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by dmorrow View Post
      Where did you get the GTD mileage numbers as they are higher than what the site above has for the TDI? This just from estimating the numbers are higher than EPA estimates?
      I just used the current US Golf TDI economy numbers for a better, but not perfect apples to apples (based on US cars)

    11. Member Waterfan's Avatar
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      09-12-2012 04:16 PM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by feels_road View Post
      ...33/42/51 for the GTD wouldn't be all that unrealistic (or perhaps 30/40/51 without start/stop technology). DSG would likely be 10% less.
      If that "42" for 180hp GTD is combined city/hwy, that seems VERY ambitious given the current Golf TDI (140hp) only claims 42 hwy.

    12. Senior Member feels_road's Avatar
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      09-13-2012 04:08 AM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by Waterfan View Post
      If that "42" for 180hp GTD is combined city/hwy, that seems VERY ambitious given the current Golf TDI (140hp) only claims 42 hwy.
      I know, but, well, what can I do? The regular 2.0 is listed as 47mpg Euro city cycle - how much do you want me to reduce that?

      Of course, it is impossible to just get 42 mpg with the current one on the highway, too (meaning, realistically, that with the MT you are closer to 50 or above). The thing is that the EPA cycle doesn't challenge the engine enough, which is most efficient when some significant power is actually used.
      Aung San Suu Kyi

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      09-13-2012 11:20 AM #13
      Seems Automobile mag has one for testing...

    14. Member merog's Avatar
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      09-13-2012 12:29 PM #14
      source??


    15. Member Canthoney's Avatar
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      09-13-2012 02:29 PM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by NotQuiteWes View Post
      Well? I mean, I'd love to see that....but...
      I think yes! Auto and NY Times were testing it and, I think VWoA was trying to gauge peoples reaction and interest in it. Overall it was pretty positive.


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    16. Member gtitrini's Avatar
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      09-13-2012 04:00 PM #17
      It's funny that VW sent them one in that bright green paint. So as they are driving it around, EVERYONE will be drawn to it.
      I would totally buy it.


    17. Member Turbonium20V's Avatar
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      09-13-2012 10:59 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by Waterfan View Post
      If that "42" for 180hp GTD is combined city/hwy, that seems VERY ambitious given the current Golf TDI (140hp) only claims 42 hwy.
      It is proven that all the US TDI lineup is highly underrated. I currently drive a 2012 6M TDI Passat rated at 43MPG HWY and I have seen as high as 57MPG HWY. My combined calculated average is 46MPG without even trying. If they bring the GTD I will get one for sure!

    18. Member Waterfan's Avatar
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      09-14-2012 12:01 AM #19
      My assumptions were just that, assumptions.

      It is a fact that any GTD will have lower fuel costs than any GTI.

      My main point was that I expect the GTD to have premium pricing over the GTI and I was trying to demonstrate how long it would take to 'breakeven'. The larger the gap, the more savings with the GTD and the faster the payback.

      If the US GTD is the same price as the GTI my pricing assumption is moot and we can make a straight choice between power vs. fuel economy. This will be a very tough choice for me, and either way, I can't lose. (unless the US isn't really going to get the GTD)

    19. 09-19-2012 07:46 AM #20
      If you get it, remember to order it with DSG box. 170TDi engine is not well suited to a manual.

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      09-22-2012 05:08 PM #21
      i would love to see it come here, but I have the same concern that many potential tdi owners have. Will the US fuel cause the hpfp to fail on this new VII just like the VI? I read it was a different engine with new injection system, but I wonder if it's the same old hpfp. I need to figure that out; if so, I'm buying a gti.

    21. Member Turbonium20V's Avatar
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      09-22-2012 09:19 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by boostin20 View Post
      i would love to see it come here, but I have the same concern that many potential tdi owners have. Will the US fuel cause the hpfp to fail on this new VII just like the VI? I read it was a different engine with new injection system, but I wonder if it's the same old hpfp. I need to figure that out; if so, I'm buying a gti.
      99% of that was misfueling

    22. 09-22-2012 10:00 PM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbonium20V View Post
      99% of that was misfueling
      Don't think you have the data to support that. The VW data sent to NHTSA doesn't even support a 99% misfueling rate. VW has been hanging the problem on 'poor fuel quality' in many situations.

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      09-23-2012 03:35 AM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbonium20V View Post
      99% of that was misfueling
      LOL, wrong.

    24. Senior Member feels_road's Avatar
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      09-23-2012 05:24 AM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by rs_t View Post
      If you get it, remember to order it with DSG box. 170TDi engine is not well suited to a manual.
      What? The DSG can hardly handle the stock torque smoothly, and uses 10% more fuel, to boot. And the new GTD will more likely have 180 - 185 hp - give me a MT, please.

      Quote Originally Posted by boostin20 View Post
      i would love to see it come here, but I have the same concern that many potential tdi owners have.
      Many? I only have seen a very few (except in TDIclub, which is OCD city).

      Quote Originally Posted by Turbonium20V View Post
      99% of that was misfueling
      90%, for sure (and at times by the early, uneducated mechanics and salespeople at dealerships.) Beyond that, most of it likely contaminated fuel or small amounts of misfueling, since the problem is virtually unheard of in Europe - and things seem to have quieted down, considerably, in the past year.

      There are something like 200,000 very happy TDI owners in the US without a fuel pump issue.
      Aung San Suu Kyi

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      09-23-2012 06:46 AM #26
      All I was asking was if anyone knew if the new hpfp/fuel system was different besides just the injectors. I didn't want to completely de-rail the thread, but since it already is, here goes.

      Bosch designed the hpfp for euro spec diesel, and recommend using fuel with an atsm spec of 460 microns. What's available in the US is 520 microns. They recognize that the pump could self-destruct with >460 microns. Why not just add a little B2 or stanadyne? VW says in writing not to do that, and it could possibly effect the warranty. If you guys do some research, you'll find most people have gone as far as keeping all fuel receipts and having samples of their fuel tank and local gas station tested in their fight against trigger happy techs and reps who automatically assume an owner put some gas (petrol) in their tank. Why don't more people boycott the tdi? Because we don't have any other great options at this point; hybrids just aren't good enough yet.

      I'm happy for you guys in EU and other parts of the world who don't have this issue b/c your fuel provides the recommended lubricity, but here in the US it's a real concern. I have tremendous hopes that the VII US-spec diesel will have solved this issue.

    26. 09-25-2012 05:49 AM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by feels_road View Post
      What? The DSG can hardly handle the stock torque smoothly, and uses 10% more fuel, to boot. And the new GTD will more likely have 180 - 185 hp - give me a MT, please.
      The DSG have no problem with the Torque of the 2.0TDi. I have a 2.0TDi 170 manual, and it’s a very different engine and feel to the 1.9 TDi 130 for example. The turbo kicks in late, and there is a lot of shifting needed to operate the car effective and smooth. The power band is quite narrow. If you have a lot of heavy traffic driving there is a constant first to second shifting going on, and for highway driving the 6th gear is not as flexible as you would expect for a diesel engine. I used to have a 1.9TDi 130 hp, and both original and remapped it was much more suited to a manual. Both my current 2.0TDi 170 and my previous 1.9 130 are 6-speed. I have put in many diesel miles for the last years. Long trips, city driving and track driving. (Only interrupted by 3 years with a 2.0TFSi which is a much more fun engine than the diesel anyway) The best diesel car I have driven beside the fantastic A5 3.0TDi (Which is perfectly suited to a manual) is the Golf GTD DSG. Perfect gearbox for that engine. My buddy has a 140TDi, and with the smaller Turbo and different management, it’s a better engine for everyday driving with manual. Much less lag, and smother curve. Of course slower when going full out, but how often is that. Don't get me wrong; the 170hp manual is ok. But after a year of getting to really know it I regret getting a manual. I’m going back to 2.0T petrol next year due to no more commuting. Can’t wait!
      Last edited by rs_t; 09-25-2012 at 01:16 PM.

    27. Senior Member feels_road's Avatar
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      09-25-2012 07:47 AM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by boostin20 View Post
      Why not just add a little B2 or stanadyne? ...
      I'm happy for you guys in EU and other parts of the world who don't have this issue b/c your fuel provides the recommended lubricity, but here in the US it's a real concern. I have tremendous hopes that the VII US-spec diesel will have solved this issue.
      Some Diesel providers in the US indicate that they add BioDiesel at a low percentage to raise lubricity. At any rate, as of 2012, there seems to be no more concern regarding TDI fuel pumps.
      Aung San Suu Kyi

    28. n00b
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      10-06-2012 04:03 AM #29
      Any news on the Golf VII GTD?

    29. Member Turbonium20V's Avatar
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      10-07-2012 05:24 PM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by boostin20 View Post
      All I was asking was if anyone knew if the new hpfp/fuel system was different besides just the injectors. I didn't want to completely de-rail the thread, but since it already is, here goes.

      Bosch designed the hpfp for euro spec diesel, and recommend using fuel with an atsm spec of 460 microns. What's available in the US is 520 microns. They recognize that the pump could self-destruct with >460 microns. Why not just add a little B2 or stanadyne? VW says in writing not to do that, and it could possibly effect the warranty. If you guys do some research, you'll find most people have gone as far as keeping all fuel receipts and having samples of their fuel tank and local gas station tested in their fight against trigger happy techs and reps who automatically assume an owner put some gas (petrol) in their tank. Why don't more people boycott the tdi? Because we don't have any other great options at this point; hybrids just aren't good enough yet.

      I'm happy for you guys in EU and other parts of the world who don't have this issue b/c your fuel provides the recommended lubricity, but here in the US it's a real concern. I have tremendous hopes that the VII US-spec diesel will have solved this issue.
      Much better info than "LOL, wrong. " As for this info I think VW already corrected the issue with self destructive pumps, at least for the last gen of TDIs. I haven't heard of anybody having this problem anymore.(at least with the urea injected ones)
      Last edited by Turbonium20V; 10-07-2012 at 05:27 PM.

    30. 10-14-2012 04:39 PM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by randomkoreanguy View Post
      This is just an educated guess, but I'm going to posit the theory that in an effort to meet their (extremely) ambitious sales goals (and plans for global automotive domination) VWAG (and by proxy, VWOA) are in the midst of considering expanding their line-up to every niche, nook, cranny, and unexplored/unexploited profitable segment they can possibly sink their teeth into. What does this mean for us enthusiasts? It means there's a pretty good chance that there's a lot of exciting things on the horizon. Let's face it, aggressive expansion is working out pretty well for Hyundai/Kia, whereas the more conservative companies are either suffering or stagnating. VW/Audi have to nearly double their current sales numbers to meet their pretty ambitious 2018 sales goals in our market and they can't do that by just continuing to offer the same model range they always have.

      So I theorize that currently, everything is on the table, everything is being considered. Diesel has proven to be unexpectedly popular and hugely profitable for VW stateside, so the expansion of their diesel line-up is a no-brainer, in my opinion.
      This.

      In addition, the new Golf/Jetta with the new 1.8 turbo's will approach the combined mileage of the currect TDI, so the TDI itself will have to be greatly upgraded, probably to the new 180 hp version with 50mpg.

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      10-15-2012 06:56 AM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbonium20V View Post
      Much better info than "LOL, wrong. " As for this info I think VW already corrected the issue with self destructive pumps, at least for the last gen of TDIs. I haven't heard of anybody having this problem anymore.(at least with the urea injected ones)
      You're absolutely correct about the urea injected vehicles, but that excludes the CR golfs, jettas, and passats (at least for the US, I don't know about EU models). There are hundreds of cases of hpfp failures already in the '12+ passat, a3, and golf with the supposed upgraded hpfp. That being said, those are a very small percentage compared to happy tdi owners in the US. I'm not trying to start a panic with any of this, but it is extremely disconcerting to see VWOA try to weasel their way out of a recall and try to stick an 8-10k bill on a customer. That's not too far off of half the value of the car new, and there's no guarantee it will not happen multiple times.

      There are a few vendors working together on a bracket to fit the cummins hpfp on the CR. That looks like it will be the ultimate fix. (of course warranty will be void)

    32. Senior Member feels_road's Avatar
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      10-16-2012 12:30 AM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by boostin20 View Post
      I'm not trying to start a panic with any of this, but it is extremely disconcerting to see VWOA try to weasel their way out of a recall and try to stick an 8-10k bill on a customer.
      Well, so far, VW has footed the bill for repairs - even in cases when people had fueled up with gasoline (that latter practice might end now, though).

      A great fix would be if it were possible to install a filter behind the HPFP. The pump itself is peanuts.
      Aung San Suu Kyi

    33. Member Heresy64's Avatar
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      10-18-2012 07:35 PM #34
      If they bring the GTD to the US, I'll trade my R for it the first day I can get one.
      2013 VW GTI / Shadow Blue Metallic / LED Tails / Topas Wheels / RNS-315 Swap / DG Springs

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      10-21-2012 05:43 PM #35
      I would like to see it, but I am not holding my breath.

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