Username or Email Address
Do you already have an account?
Forgot your password?
  • Log in or Sign up

    VWVortex


    Page 1 of 8 12345 ... LastLast
    Results 1 to 25 of 184

    Thread: What do you mean you’re “outsourcing my position”?! -or- the "Diamond Dave looks for a job" thread

    1. Member
      Join Date
      Mar 24th, 2001
      Location
      Beaverton, OR
      Posts
      7,231
      Vehicles
      2 Miatas, 2 Saabs, & a G35 sedan
      09-11-2012 03:03 AM #1
      This is so ironic it’s almost comical. My job has been outsourced. As in, the entire sales and marketing functional area. Did I mention I was the Director of Sales for a BPO (business process outsourcer)?


      So, I thought I'd make a "project" thread about the process of me looking for work; since I'm never short on ideas about everyone else's job search My target is to have a job or offer by Nov 15. If I don't have something by that point, I won't expect anything until February 2013.


      I've been casually looking for a few months anyway, so it's not like I'm at ground zero, but still, I'd have much rather found a job while I was employed. Oh well, the time off will be nice to spend with the kids. I love this time of year anyway.


      I plan to use the hunt and steal method as opposed to applying for jobs. I'll post some screen shots of how I track the jobs I'm trying to land and the type of information I use to contact the people doing the hiring.





      Hit me with any questions or comments.





      [edit - Oct8]
      If you haven't seen my Lessons, here they are for your convenience.

      Lesson 1 - So you need a job. What are you doing?

      Lesson 2 - So you need a job. You do have a resume; don't you?

      Lesson 3 - So you need a job. Where are you looking?

      Lesson 4 - So you need a job. Are you job hunting or snipe hunting?

      Lesson 5 - So you need a job. Tips on how to *submit* your resume.
      Last edited by Diamond Dave; 10-09-2012 at 12:20 AM.

    2. Member
      Join Date
      Feb 11th, 2009
      Location
      Lewiston, Maine
      Posts
      4,758
      Vehicles
      2001 Wolfsburg Jetta
      09-11-2012 07:49 AM #2
      Ironic it is

      Good Luck in your job search, Dave.
      Quote Originally Posted by winstonsmith84 View Post
      Tax? I don't mind paying state sales tax. Every time a see a pothole, a school that is falling down or a canceled essential state program, I remind myself why.
      Quote Originally Posted by Tornado2dr View Post
      535 members of congress plus 1 pres screwing us all the time...that's dirty pirate hooker level gang rape.

    3. Member MotownSVT's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 9th, 2002
      Location
      Detroit REAdy+ROK City
      Posts
      8,823
      Vehicles
      2014 Ford Fusion w/ 3 pedals, 2014 Ford Escape... driven at/or beyond their limits
      09-11-2012 09:37 AM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by Egilbe View Post
      Good Luck in your job search, Dave.
      I'll second that. But I'm not sure there's anyone more qualified for the job search/interview process.
      Quote Originally Posted by BarryV1
      Scene points are kind of like bitcoins... They really carry no value outside of the internet.

    4. Member
      Join Date
      Dec 17th, 2007
      Location
      Littleton, CO
      Posts
      7,102
      09-11-2012 09:37 AM #4
      I think this is a great idea for a thread and should prove to provide some valuable information.

    5. 09-11-2012 11:42 AM #5
      great idea sir. Where is the like button

    6. Member scandalous_cynce's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 28th, 2007
      Location
      Vancouver, WA
      Posts
      6,293
      Vehicles
      MK4 Jetta - '07 Audi A3 (SOLD)
      09-11-2012 12:24 PM #6
      Looking forward to following

    7. Member
      Join Date
      Mar 24th, 2001
      Location
      Beaverton, OR
      Posts
      7,231
      Vehicles
      2 Miatas, 2 Saabs, & a G35 sedan
      09-11-2012 11:51 PM #7
      Thanks for the comments guys. Honestly though, the new schedule is great and my commute is about 5 minutes by long board while my kids ride their bikes to school.


      Here's how I search for a new job.


      First, the patented Diamond Dave Job Hunting method: Find companies that should hire you; don't look for job postings. Why is that? If there is a job posting, there are hundreds of applicants; many probably better than you. If you network with the people that should be hiring you anyway, they start thinking of you at their company and where you'd slot in to the organization. Pretty soon, they're subconsciously writing a job description for you. Then you're only competing with yourself. Sure, apply to a ton of things along the way, but when you make your own opportunity in the world, your sense of value grows exponentially.




      Sorry it's so damn small and grainy. I'm already at odds putting people's names and contact info up, but, suck it.

      The key information fields are the company names and the contact names. You'll see that most companies don't have a position listed. That's because there isn't one advertised. I don't care. Those are companies that I could work for or that I want to work for, so I'll be calling the Director or VP directly to introduce myself and network. Some of these are companies I knew about, others were referred to me when I reached out to my LinkedIn group and others came from basic research for my job title in SimplyHired.com.

      I use LinkedIn to find everyone. I haven't paid money to LinkedIn in years. Just use your Google membership.

      - linkedin.com: company + title
      This gives you a longer list of names to choose from or it gives you the last name when LI only gives you the first name.

      Finding contact information:
      - John Doe + Company + contact
      - John Doe + Company + .xls/.pdf/.doc
      - "John Doe" + title + companyemail.com



      I built this Everything that looks like a hyperlink is a hyperlink. I go to the company Web site and get the link to the "job opportunities" or "careers" page and use right click + hyperlink to insert it in the cell. Then I do the same for the landing page that the job description is on under the title of the job description. And finally, I copy the full job description and paste it into a comment attached to the job description (because they'll kill the hyperlink to the job opening sometimes).


      Second, Unemployment tracking is slightly different than a real job search because a real job search entails numerous functions with the same employer. The State doesn't view those as productive. They view shipping resumes off into cyberspace as being productive. So, I spend about 2hrs and grab 5-10 plausible job postings that satisfy that requirement. They're the kind of job postings you "think" are going to pan out, but since 500 people applied for them, they most likely won't.




      This spreadsheet should contain all the info you'd need to make your unemployment claim quickly and effectively. Also, if audited, you'll have documentation. If, by some miracle, you actually DO get called by a recruiter, you'll be able to quickly orient yourself to the company, the position you applied for and when you applied. For reference, I started this unemployment sheet from scratch during my son's first day at Kindergarten. Took about 2hrs. Oregon only requires you make 3 attempts per week, yet I'm able to make 12 attempts in 2hrs



      For each of these spreadsheets (as books within a spreadsheet), you'll want to update it each time with notes in a note field and with the exact name of the person you spoke with as well as email/phone/title. I also like to leave some indication in a note as to what the next expected step is or what I was told the next step will be.

    8. 09-12-2012 09:16 PM #8
      holy ****, Dave! You are the man

    9. Member
      Join Date
      Sep 12th, 2005
      Location
      Milwaukee, WI
      Posts
      1,960
      Vehicles
      1986 IDI Golf, 332K Miles, bad head gasket; will fix it when I get a round tuit.
      09-12-2012 10:26 PM #9
      It could be anticipated that you might use this thread as a reference in your resume or in an email application letter to show that you can organize a creative, systematic job search method and have the energy to post it here for the benefit of others. Good luck to you with your quest.

    10. Member
      Join Date
      Nov 19th, 2006
      Location
      Raleigh, NC
      Posts
      1,787
      Vehicles
      2014 Toyota Tacoma V6 4x4
      09-13-2012 09:19 AM #10
      I like this thread, it seems like an innovative method for finding a job. It seems more biased towards small companies though. I've found that the large corporations love to do things more anonymously. Maybe to make it a bit more challenging, try getting a job at a huge company like GE, Boeing, or Bank of America.

    11. Member
      Join Date
      Feb 11th, 2009
      Location
      Lewiston, Maine
      Posts
      4,758
      Vehicles
      2001 Wolfsburg Jetta
      09-13-2012 09:48 AM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by msrothwell View Post
      I like this thread, it seems like an innovative method for finding a job. It seems more biased towards small companies though. I've found that the large corporations love to do things more anonymously. Maybe to make it a bit more challenging, try getting a job at a huge company like GE, Boeing, or Bank of America.
      It works the same way. Get to know the people in the organization that make the decisions. Hiring at that level is usually a top-down request. The people at the top can tell the hiring manager who to hire.
      Quote Originally Posted by winstonsmith84 View Post
      Tax? I don't mind paying state sales tax. Every time a see a pothole, a school that is falling down or a canceled essential state program, I remind myself why.
      Quote Originally Posted by Tornado2dr View Post
      535 members of congress plus 1 pres screwing us all the time...that's dirty pirate hooker level gang rape.

    12. Member
      Join Date
      Mar 24th, 2001
      Location
      Beaverton, OR
      Posts
      7,231
      Vehicles
      2 Miatas, 2 Saabs, & a G35 sedan
      09-16-2012 02:15 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by msrothwell View Post
      I like this thread, it seems like an innovative method for finding a job. It seems more biased towards small companies though. I've found that the large corporations love to do things more anonymously. Maybe to make it a bit more challenging, try getting a job at a huge company like GE, Boeing, or Bank of America.
      long answer:
      Yes and no. I'm talking with one of the VP's for Siemens. It's not so much about getting a handshake job offer, it's about talking with the person at the top of the food chain.

      Here's how a recruiting process at both might work.

      Small company: job posting --> recruiter/hiring manager

      Large company: job posting -> recruiting coordinator -> recruiter -> manager -> hiring manager -> Department manager

      You can't really skip the process with a larger company, but which situation would you rather: apply with the other 500 people or would you rather the HM or DM walk over to the recruiter and tell them "bring in this candidate for an interview".


      Short answer:
      Quote Originally Posted by Egilbe View Post
      It works the same way. Get to know the people in the organization that make the decisions. Hiring at that level is usually a top-down request. The people at the top can suggest to the hiring manager who to hire.
      slam dunk.


      Quote Originally Posted by Tinker Toy View Post
      It could be anticipated that you might use this thread as a reference in your resume or in an email application letter to show that you can organize a creative, systematic job search method and have the energy to post it here for the benefit of others.
      While I appreciate your sentiments, I can't see a plausible reason how that would add any value. No future employer really cares about how you do your job search unless a job search is related to your job function.

    13. Member
      Join Date
      Nov 19th, 2006
      Location
      Raleigh, NC
      Posts
      1,787
      Vehicles
      2014 Toyota Tacoma V6 4x4
      09-17-2012 09:06 AM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Dave View Post
      long answer:
      Yes and no. I'm talking with one of the VP's for Siemens. It's not so much about getting a handshake job offer, it's about talking with the person at the top of the food chain.

      Here's how a recruiting process at both might work.

      Small company: job posting --> recruiter/hiring manager

      Large company: job posting -> recruiting coordinator -> recruiter -> manager -> hiring manager -> Department manager

      You can't really skip the process with a larger company, but which situation would you rather: apply with the other 500 people or would you rather the HM or DM walk over to the recruiter and tell them "bring in this candidate for an interview".
      Oh I totally understand, its just that it's generally harder to get into contact and stand out from others with the VP of Seimens than the VP of "Joe's local widget company". At the last place I worked (division of United Technologies Corp), the director of engineering would get calls all the time from people wanting to apply, and he would politely give them the number for HR and not think anything else about it.

    14. Member
      Join Date
      Mar 24th, 2001
      Location
      Beaverton, OR
      Posts
      7,231
      Vehicles
      2 Miatas, 2 Saabs, & a G35 sedan
      09-17-2012 12:57 PM #14
      Quick update from last week.

      Topic- Skirting the application process and going to the top of the food chain.

      Had a networking conversation with a Business Development (BDM) acquaintance I’d met on several other occasions while attending conferences or trade shows. Let him know my situation and he gave me insight on how to approach his boss (Director of Sales). He said his boss would appreciate a succinct email introduction and that I should request time on his calendar to connect by phone later next week. He also gave me his boss’ email address.


      Here’s the sanitized sample example of what I did and the result I have so far First email sent on Thursday the 13th.

      This is a correspondence with a Director of Sales from a company that has a division of products that I could fit well with. In fairness, I have spoken several times with a BDM that works reports to this Director and this BDM told me that his boss was at one of the conferences we attended, so I’m taking some artistic license when I tell him “we spoke about opportunities”. He’s met a few hundred people in the intervening months, so he totally doesn’t remember that we haven’t met. But, I was at the conference and I know they were there, so that’s good enough for me.



      Jack,
      My name is Diamond Dave. We met briefly at CS Week earlier this year when John Smith introduced us. I've met John on several occasions at other trade conferences. At CS Week the three of us had a brief conversation and you mentioned some growing opportunities with ABC Company and I'd like to follow-up with you on a business development role for someone with experience selling to Gas, electric, and water utility companies.

      I've been in outside sales roles for the better part of 10 years and always selling solutions through consultative or relation-ship based techniques. My recent experience was with XYZ Company as the Director of Sales & Marketing. XYZ Company supports utilities with call center and payment transaction solutions.

      If you have time, I'd like to have a phone call with you next week on Wednesday the 19th at 10AM PST. I can be reached on my cell phone at (503) 555-1212 I'm sure you must travel frequently, so if there is a date or time that works better for your schedule, please don't hesitate to adjust the date.

      I look forward to speaking with you.

      Regards,
      Diamond Dave




      note: I sent my email on the 13th and his out of office email was turned on, indicating that he would be back to work on the 17th, but this reply came back to me on the 14th.
      Quote Originally Posted by Jack Smith at ABC Company
      Hi Diamond Dave,
      We have a new President, and he has decided to build out our medical division faster than the utility division.
      I will ask him for an update on time frame as to when we are moving forward with hiring for the utility segment and get back to you.

      Can you please send me your resume?
      Thanks,
      Jack Smith
      Director of Sales
      Jack, please find my resume enclosed. When you receive your update on Utility growth, please keep me posted. If you feel my background could be applied toward the medical vertical to benefit ABC Company, I'd be happy to discuss my abilities with you.

      Regards,
      Diamond Dave



      Quote Originally Posted by Jack Smith at ABC Company
      Thanks Diamond Dave….I will put you in the queue and reach out once we move forward with our hiring in the utility vertical
      Jack Smith

      Director of Sales


      So, what does this mean? In the span of 96hrs (Sept13 to Sept17), I have introduced myself to a hiring manager, he's let me know the company is going through change (new President) and that the Utility vertical is on hold for awhile. However, he has asked for my resume and he can track me for the moment he thinks they might do hiring. He won't need to open a req, go to HR and write the job posting, have recruiting post the job, or wait for recruiting to spend a week (or three) screening mouth breather online applicants. He'll simply open my resume or search for this email string. I also know that I don't need to spend the next 4wks on pins and needles hoping that I'll get a phone call from them and then getting disappointed when I don't hear from them.

    15. Member
      Join Date
      Mar 24th, 2001
      Location
      Beaverton, OR
      Posts
      7,231
      Vehicles
      2 Miatas, 2 Saabs, & a G35 sedan
      09-17-2012 01:01 PM #15
      In other news, if anyone is looking to buy a Recaro Trophy office chair or Recaro Office chair adapter or a pair of power Recaro trophy's, hit me up.



      1) recaro trophy office chair
      2) set of power Recaro trophies
      3) Recaro Office chair adapter plate
      Losing is just a winning streak in the wrong direction -DD

      Watch a headhunter find his own job - 9 month process

    16. Member
      Join Date
      Mar 24th, 2001
      Location
      Beaverton, OR
      Posts
      7,231
      Vehicles
      2 Miatas, 2 Saabs, & a G35 sedan
      09-17-2012 01:03 PM #16
      Here's another correspondence with one of my friends that generated from my initial "Hey everyone, a funny thing happened on Thursday" email through LinkedIn.


      Quote Originally Posted by Jane Doe
      Send me your resume...I can pass it over to the regional sales manager here at EMC if you are interested! I report dotted line to him and can make a recommendation. He has been hiring too.

      Jane

      Jane, I've finally finished my resume update. Please forward this to your boss. I'm not sure what needs EMC has, but I'm looking for a Regional or National business development role.

      dd



      Quote Originally Posted by Jane Doe
      Diamond Dave,
      I sent your resume to Luke Skywalker (Regional Sales in PacNW) and his manager Speed Racer (National Sales). They both cover Commercial accounts, which focuses on customers with a certain number of employees / annual earnings (not sure exactly what the breaking point is between SMB, Commercial and Enterprise). SMB (Small Market Business) & Commercial tend to juggle more customer and have a tight relationship with Partners/Resellers. I support Luke’s team to drive booked deals into production. Good group of people. There are a 3-4 sales reps in Portland now. It’s a growing business.

      Warm Regards,
      Jane Doe



      Based on their job opportunities page, I'm not sure if I'd be considered for one of their sales positions if one of their recruiters saw my resume. Also, the positions service multiple geographic areas, so they might prefer an "easy" candidate that already lives in NorCal, as opposed to onie living in Oregon and covering NorCal. However, a personal referral to the Hiring Manager is gold. THEY know what they want. And if one of their employees recommends someone, they are way more likely to reach out to that person.

    17. 09-18-2012 11:25 AM #17
      Subscribed. I've been "looking" for over a year now. My disadvantage is that I left my job of 10+ years to move to a small town because my wife was promoted into a killer c-level position. As for the town, we're talking < 100k people, and most of them work with sheep, oil, or wear scrubs to work. So I'm at a distinct disadvantage already, coming from an IT and technical sales background . The irony is that while I'm looking for something that's a better fit, I'm working as a technical recruiter to fill positions in every part of the country except here .
      Anyways, DD knows his stuff, and I'm following along here. I'm not here forever though, so hopefully when we move back to civilization I can have some ideas on how to get re-acquainted to a real job market

    18. Member
      Join Date
      Mar 5th, 2004
      Location
      Dallas, TX
      Posts
      6,472
      Vehicles
      S80, CRV
      09-18-2012 06:59 PM #18
      Following this thread

    19. Member
      Join Date
      Mar 24th, 2001
      Location
      Beaverton, OR
      Posts
      7,231
      Vehicles
      2 Miatas, 2 Saabs, & a G35 sedan
      09-19-2012 01:45 PM #19
      names and company names have been altered to enhance anonymity



      Here's a reply from the first company I spoke with. They have no opportunities posted anywhere, but a business associate suggested I contact the VP and introduced myself while referencing his name since they *might* be looking in the near future.


      Good afternoon David,
      My name is Diamond Dave and I have National Business Development experience selling call center and consulting services to Utility companies. I've recently begun a confidential search for a Business Development role that will allow me to leverage my experience and contacts in the Utility industry and John Smith at Navex Global spoke very highly of Energy Motion Software. It's likely that you and I have met through my involvement with the National Energy Association at the Spring Conference or annual meetings.

      I would enjoy having a conversation with you regarding any opportunity that Energy Motion Software may have today or in the future for someone with my background.

      Regards,
      Diamond Dave



      Quote Originally Posted by David at Energy Motion Software
      Hello David,

      Thanks for the note. I'll be on the road for the next couple of weeks, and Katarina (our recruiter) is on vacation, so unless there's a big rush on your side I'd like to have Katarina get back to you in tge second half of September.

      Which utilities have you worked with the most? What have you sold and to which people in which departments?

      All the best, and talk to you soon,

      David


      Thanks David,
      I'd be more than happy to speak with Katarina when she's back from travel.

      I've been selling services and solutions to companies for about 10 years. Typically it's the type of service that they can do internally, but they might lack the resources or the skill to do at the level they desire; so I've needed to perfect a consultative and relationship-based sales approach. I've got experience selling staffing and recruiting services and I even owned my own head hunting company for a few years (closed when the economy ground to a halt in 2010). Most recently, with Outsourcings Utility Teleservices, I've sold contact center and Payment transaction services. Interestingly, my background head hunting has given me the greatest experience with researching targets, identifying decision makers, and getting their direct contact information. I typically engage with Director level and above contacts to build business. I'm very skilled at developing relationships through becoming a Subject Matter Expert or through participating in niche organizations. This method obviously allows me to brand my company and gain access to decision makers, but most importantly, it gives me credibility because I'm participating and giving back to the collective community. Credibility makes people pick up or return phone calls and makes buying decisions easier.

      Most of the Utility contacts I know are at the Director level and had oversight across several pieces of the organization. Some were Director/VP of Operations and others were Director/VP of Customer Service (Even if they aren't the direct contact that Energy Motion Software would contact, I could leverage a referral to the correct contact). The majority of my contacts had little to do with the T&D side of the house. Most of the contacts were concerned specifically about maintaining or raising customer satisfaction or they wanted to maintain an edge on competition through customer satisfaction. I have existing connections with the following Utility companies:

      BC Hydro (current Pulse client)
      NorthWestern Energy
      NW Natural Gas
      PacifiCorp
      Puget Sound Energy
      SouthWest Gas
      Questar Gas
      SMUD
      Vectren Energy
      PGE (Portland General Electric)
      Montana-Dakota / Inter-mountain Gas
      Fortis BC


      Please forward my info to Katarina and she can schedule or call when she returns from vacation. I'm seeking a National or Regional Business Development role with a majority focus on landing new business. I can develop a territory or grow an existing territory. I'm open to travel and I'm interested in a remote, home-based office rather than relocating.


      Regards,
      Diamond Dave





      Here's the response from Mlonday.

      Quote Originally Posted by From Katarina
      Hi David,

      Thanks for reaching out. I will be happy to set up a phone call with you some time this week.
      Could you please send me your resume and your availability?
      Thank you!

      Best Regards,
      Katarina




      In other news, I put fresh bearings on my daily driver.


    20. Member
      Join Date
      Mar 24th, 2001
      Location
      Beaverton, OR
      Posts
      7,231
      Vehicles
      2 Miatas, 2 Saabs, & a G35 sedan
      09-26-2012 02:19 PM #20
      As we all know, the best time to find a new job is when you have one already. Obviously, this allows you the opportunity to be as picky as possible about your next opportunity. Well, being unemployed presents several challenges that you need to cope with, mentally, in order to come out on top.


      Right now, there are a lot of opportunities out there, but they're just "jobs". I liken a job search to going to a HS dance. There's a few hot chicks you want to hook up with, a lot of average ones, and then there are the "others". It all depends on how desperate you are to get back to work.

      I've got a few companies that want to talk with me about local sales jobs that are exactly like what I was doing 10yrs ago. Sadly, the pay is what I was earning 10yrs ago (~$40K + commission) and the scope of the role is really further back in my skill set. This tells me that if I needed to make an immediate shift in to working, there are opportunities. However, my goal is to find something exciting AND that is in my salary range (~$85K+). To achieve that goal, I've got to get more than just one company interested at the same time so I can leverage my salary negotiations.


      Also, keep in mind that in order to maintain some of your sanity and stay "fresh" you need to smell the roses. Would you like to have a job right now? Yes. Is getting a job immediately within your power? No. Come to grips with that and start balancing your like. Get on a workout program; you'll feel better about yourself. Volunteer at your kid's school and be more involved while you can. Tackle those house projects that you've ignored because you were "working hard". But don't forget about working to find that job while you diversify your activities.

      Also, here's my Dear John letter from the company above that I cold called. A perfect reminder that a resume isn't going to get you anywhere. You need to be in front of the hiring manager; not just email and phone calls, but referrals from people he knows. It's got to seem to him that everyone is talking about you and that he really needs to evaluate what the buzz is about. This time, no buzz for DD Hard to be too disappointed though; easy come, easy go. Or perhaps, another "No" out of the way on the long path to a "YES".

      Quote Originally Posted by Katarina
      Hi David,

      Yes, I did receive your resume. Thank you.
      I sent it to our VP Sales and unfortunately he can't see a match for you right now. I will keep your resume on file and as soon as something that matches your profile comes up, I'll contact you.

      Best regards,
      Katarina

      I did get a VM from a company looking for a Regional Business Development role. It's with a company that is nicely corporate, but I'm not thrilled about working for them. The pay, however, is more in line with what I need salary wise. $2K/mo on unemployment or ~$7K a month to get a job where I could do working unemployment. Hmm, I'll have to think about this.


      Also, I qualify for a program through the State for Self Employment Assistance. Basically, I submit a business plan, they approve it, and I get 52wks of unemployment payments so I can start my own business. I've got a few options with this, but honestly, I just don't see this next 2yrs as being the best time to start a successful business. We'll see.

    21. Member
      Join Date
      Mar 24th, 2001
      Location
      Beaverton, OR
      Posts
      7,231
      Vehicles
      2 Miatas, 2 Saabs, & a G35 sedan
      10-04-2012 01:37 PM #21
      Calls and more calls this week. I reached out to a VP of sales from one of the Sales partner companies I was working with earlier this year and it turns out he left that company as well. He did give me some leads of companies that are looking for people in Business Development. I also tracked down another VP from my target company list, this time they have a currently advertised opening. Again, I'd rather the guy at the top of the food chain forward my resume to the recruiter as opposed to waiting for the recruiter to get excited about looking for my resume and calling me.

      Here's the laundry list of things I do to get ready for a cold call to companies (assuming I've got his name and number).

      -pull up the full job description from the Web site (more on this later)
      -pull up the company Web site in another window or tab and read through it briefly; news items, management team, products, etc.
      -pull up the contact's LinkedIn profile and look through it one more time to review this person's history. Maybe you are familiar with someone or some company they used to work for. Maybe you went to the same school as them. Maybe their football team just had a great game last weekend, etc.
      -write down your notes on your brief elevator pitch (the who are you and why are you calling pitch). This should take 10-15secs and sound very relaxed, yet professional
      -make a note on your call sheet (that you use to track your productivity) about the purpose for your call or where you want the call to go.

      So, I dialed the phone number, turns out it's Canadian () and it send me through the phone tree. I select the option to go through the company directory and dial by last name. It sends me to the automated system (and a nice lady pronounces his name completely differently than I was prepared to so I made a phonetic note on my notebook) and I can hear the computer ringing 3 times, then it transfers me to his cell phone. Immediately I know he's going to answer, but since this phone system was similar to mine, I know there's a 10sec delay before he can hear me. Anyway, I introduce myself and the first thing he says is "where did you see that posting; we hired for that position" Told him it was on the Web site (which I knew, since I had the Web site up) and mentioned that it said they were hiring for 3 regions. Then I asked if they hired for all 3 or if they pulled them back. This is me mildly controlling the conversational flow with my own questions, rather than getting boxed in to letting him direct the conversation. Turns out he doesn't oversee the sales organization, but told me to get in touch with a different VP. He told me her name, I verified the spelling and asked for the best way to get in touch with her (translation: please give me a direct dial phone number). So, he actually gave me her phone and email and I thanked him for his time, but also gave my full name once more "thank you for your time John, again, my name is David Barwick. I'll contact Mary." He most likely forgot my name after he told me they hired for that position, so I wanted to make sure that if for some reason this gal he referred me to happened to mention me to her, that he would have a chance at confirming our conversation. Just free marketing behind the scenes. You'd want two VP's talking about you when you're trying to get a job. "yeah, that David called me directly. he was professional on the phone and sounded like he has experience selling to our verticals"



      A few tips when calling prospective employers (that aren't expecting a call from you).

      1. I always leave a message. In today's technologically connected world, your number shows up or is tracked by the phone system or the phone you're calling. So, you might as well leave a brief message rather than look like the guy that called 10 times and never left one. Besides, you've already put the time into dialing the number.

      2. Use this message format when possible for cold calls:
      -This message is for John Smith (if Vm has no name recording)
      -My name is Diamond Dave, my phone number is xxxx.
      -(if there is a connection or you were referred to this person, state that now)
      -I'm calling to find out about opportunities for a Regional or National Business Development position with your company.
      -Restate your name and phone number.

      3. Always press '#' for the best message
      90% of modern VM systems have menu options available at any time during the voicemail answering service once you press '#'. Something like: Press 1 to listen to your message, press 2 to re-record, press 3 to access another mailbox. If you get in the habit of pressing '#', you can really save yourself some heartache from stumbling on the message, saying something stupid, or just plain sounding like a stalker.

      4. when you get someone on the phone and find out they aren't the correct person to speak with, don't give up, build rapport with them and get them talking. You'll find out they got a new CEO and things are on hold for awhile or you'll find out they just got a huge contract and they'll need to hire soon or you'll find out that the person you really want to speak with just got back from a honeymoon. This is all information that will come in handy for your next call, so write it down.



      Lastly, Fall in Oregon really is amazing. It's a great time of year to be unemployed. I need to figure out a solution for my son during the day though. Having a 3hr break from a kindergartner really forces me to stay on a tight schedule.

      I've got a networking event tonight. The organizer will let me in free in exchange for me working the front door and handing out tickets.

    22. Member Thrice's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 6th, 2004
      Location
      Hillsboro, OR
      Posts
      7,521
      Vehicles
      2002 Elantra GT | 2005 Odyssey Touring
      10-04-2012 02:05 PM #22
      This is a great thread and as someone who probably lives 15 minutes from you I can wholeheartedly agree that this time of the year in Oregon is awesome.

    23. Member
      Join Date
      Mar 24th, 2001
      Location
      Beaverton, OR
      Posts
      7,231
      Vehicles
      2 Miatas, 2 Saabs, & a G35 sedan
      10-05-2012 04:42 PM #23
      So, it was an interesting networking event last night. It's a great example that I wanted to share with you. File it under the benefits of networking or the importance of developing a wide range of business associates across several industries. If nothing else, it's nice to be able to have something tangible to talk about when my friends ask about my job search. I've got so many people in my group of friends that are genuinely interested in how my job search is going, that it can be a little depressing to keep reporting "nope, I haven't found something yet". Even though I know it's only been a few weeks, it does leave a mark on a person's mental outlook. So, guys, if you know of someone that's out of work, take them out for a beer and DON't ask them how their job search is going

      I was able to reconnect with quite a few friends; some knew I was out of work already and others heard for the first time.

      I ended up running in to my old boss at this event as well. We ended up going out for a beer afterward too. It was flattering to hear him tell me how awful he feels and how confident he is in my ability and how he's sure that I'll lad something that will let me earn the money I should be making. He also told me, he's never seen someone act so professionally while getting let go and that he respects me even more. He's personally spoken with almost a dozen business associates or prospects that I interfaced with to fill them in on the situation and make sure they understood that my departure was purely a shift in business as opposed to something negative about me. He's genuinely a nice guy. It's a nice reminder of the importance of not burning bridges.


      I didn't realize it until I saw one of the girls, but I had applied (online and totally cold merely to satisfy my weekly unemployment filing) with her company for a regional business development role (that I actually want) a few weeks ago, but I was playing phone tag with the recruiter and hadn't heard from her in a week. She asked for that recruiter's name and said she'd ping her to give me a quick reference. Surprisingly, I got a call this morning from the recruiter and we had a brief, but very strong conversation. Not to brag, but I'm shocked at how well I can steer these calls sometimes (* note below). I found out that this job fits me and my desires very well, the scope is something I'm able to handle easily, the salary is well within my range, and (unfortunately) it looks like they're trying to move on the position ASAP. I was kind of hoping to have a few months of down time to get some projects done.


      *note
      So, a large part of job hunting is demonstrating control or confidence. If you are an applicant on a phone screen or in an interview, you should have a little alarm that goes off in your head to remind you to stop passively answering their questions like a sacrificial lamb. While the goal of a recruiter is to get candidates talking and give them some flexibility to impress you or hang themselves, as an applicant, make sure you are mining everyone for information. ASK questions and get answers so you can use that information later in the call to your advantage. How long has this role been open? What are the immediate initiatives in this role? Looking at my background, what areas do you feel give me an edge on other candidates? For extra credit, you can do the same thing from a sales angle; but only in face to face meetings: So, let's assume you've just hired me, what are the key initiatives we'll work on? Once I'm hired, what does the mentoring process look like from the Executive leadership to me and then from me to the field? --> any time you can get them responding to a scenario where you're already working there is good stuff

      Two more things I did on this phone call that were purely to help create my image with the recruiter. 1) she apologized profusely about not getting back to me, to which I replied that I had no problem with that, and that I just assumed that if she were hiring a capable BDM, that person should be able to demonstrate some ability to reach her through different avenues. Again, it was totally happenstance how my friend emailed her, but I subtly reorganized this information in her head to leave her with the impression that I consciously used my network to reach her. 2) at the end of the call, I made sure to recap several areas where I felt the role or the company aligned with my target job and reiterated to her my interest in moving further in their process. Lots of times, candidates are so concerned with being "professional" that they forget to restate the obvious; that they really are interested in this role. That alone carries a lot of weight.

      Talking salary with recruiters
      Oh, so I liked this recruiter and she was capable, but I thought I'd note a frequent topic. Her 2nd question to me was "How much do you need?" Now, I really don't mind her being forward and direct, because you have to right size candidates quickly sometimes. I don't recommend blurting out your salary until you know how much you can ask for. Also, by answering her question, I put her in control. Never give something unless you get something So I gave her my old talk off of "well, at this time, I only have a limited understanding of the full scope of the role or even the compensation structure, so I'll need more details from you before we can talk about salary." And, it worked. She told me a few details and then said "this role should pay out in six figures." So then I clarified "That's nice, but do you mean mean it's six figures as in $180-200K or is it six figures as in $105K; because there's a big difference." She laughed and then told me the base was somewhere in the $90K range and with full comp it could be in the $140+ range. Bingo! I just found out what my base should be. Nothing wrong with 8-12wks off and a 15% pay increase. I suppose I should have told her I wanted a $95 base, but realistically, it's $2/hr difference and I can easily get that back later when I ask for 5wks PTO and they balk at that.

    24. Senior Member
      Join Date
      Nov 7th, 2001
      Location
      The Village
      Posts
      21,383
      Vehicles
      KAR 120C
      10-05-2012 06:00 PM #24
      Are you friggin' KIDDING ME, Dave?

      Good lord. We should talk, dude. My network isn't huge in PDX, but I'm happy to do what I can (as always).

    25. Member
      Join Date
      Mar 24th, 2001
      Location
      Beaverton, OR
      Posts
      7,231
      Vehicles
      2 Miatas, 2 Saabs, & a G35 sedan
      10-07-2012 05:25 PM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by Numbersix View Post
      Are you friggin' KIDDING ME, Dave?

      Good lord. We should talk, dude. My network isn't huge in PDX, but I'm happy to do what I can (as always).
      Oops, I guess I hadn't gotten around to it yet

      NOTE- a classic fail is neglecting to let your friend/fellow Vortexer/fellow recruiter know you are looking for work.

      I'll call you Monday or Tuesday. As always, I appreciate anyone that can keep an eye out for me.
      Losing is just a winning streak in the wrong direction -DD

      Watch a headhunter find his own job - 9 month process

    Page 1 of 8 12345 ... LastLast

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •