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    Thread: 2014 carbon (motor trend)

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      09-11-2012 06:33 PM #1

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      09-11-2012 06:36 PM #2

    3. Member randomkoreanguy's Avatar
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      09-11-2012 09:39 PM #3
      It sounds fantastic, but carbon fiber bodywork of any sort is not cheap and I'm pretty curious how big the price markup will be for all of this weight savings. If the process to produce this car is fairly high tech, I'm wondering whether the factory that produces the North American GTI will even be capable of building it. If the price is similar to that of a Golf R, would people still be interested?
      Thereís more to it than that, though. I feel the fast Golf is a part of me. Weíve grown up together. When it came along, all simple and full of fun, I was living in a flat in London. Now itís soft and luxurious and Iím slouched in a house in the Cotswolds. Itís like 1970s rock music. New stuff comes along which Iím sure is cleaner and better produced but it doesnít have the heart and soul of the original.

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      09-12-2012 10:44 AM #4
      Doubt it'll come to the States IMO. Give us the R as an every year car over this and I'd be happy!
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    5. 09-12-2012 12:08 PM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by randomkoreanguy View Post
      It sounds fantastic, but carbon fiber bodywork of any sort is not cheap and I'm pretty curious how big the price markup will be for all of this weight savings. If the process to produce this car is fairly high tech, I'm wondering whether the factory that produces the North American GTI will even be capable of building it. If the price is similar to that of a Golf R, would people still be interested?

      Based on what I have read it is a commendable effort but should not impact the cost significantly; it is more of a manufacturing inconvenience. With the steel core in the roof there is no need for expensive composites, plain old fiberglass can be used.
      Last edited by 1-VW; 09-12-2012 at 09:54 PM.
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    6. Member Waterfan's Avatar
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      09-12-2012 03:37 PM #6
      As much as I would love to have this in the US in a timely fashion, these are exactly the sort of features they bring to US in Audi's only.

      Then after 4-8 years of Audi-only, they let SOME of the hightech goodies trickle-down into the 'bargain' VW brand.

      The only US VW's to see these features in the next 5 years will be the hybrids or electrics (if in fact these are even coming). Then it becomes an interesting project of taking a used hybrid and swapping in a 2.0T (or while we're at it, 2.5T) and all the other GTI bits. Boom, custom US Carbon GTI. (and by the time this is done you could have had a new TTRS with money to spare).

      *sadface*

    7. Member Waterfan's Avatar
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      09-12-2012 03:45 PM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by jrwamp View Post
      Doubt it'll come to the States IMO. Give us the R as an every year car over this and I'd be happy!
      IMO, with its premium pricing and weak differentiation from the GTI, the R should already be going on this diet.

      What it should(could?) look like:
      GTI with 'standard' MK7 weight reductions, maybe assorted aluminum bits as well, 222hp, LSD - 25k
      Golf R with standard AND full aluminum/carbon weight reductions, AWD, 276hp - 35k

      Golf R is now more worthy of its R badge and its 10k premium over the GTI (no offense to the current R intended). (of course this will cannibalize at least 30% of Audi TT quattro sales)

      Do it, DO IT NOW!
      Last edited by Waterfan; 09-14-2012 at 12:20 AM.

    8. Member randomkoreanguy's Avatar
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      09-12-2012 11:41 PM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by Waterfan View Post
      IMO, with it's premium pricing and weak differentiation from the GTI, the R should already be going on this diet.

      What it should(could?) look like:
      GTI with 'standard' MK7 weight reductions, maybe assorted aluminum bits as well, 222hp, LSD - 25k
      Golf R with standard AND full aluminum/carbon weight reductions, AWD, 276hp - 35k

      Golf R is now more worthy of its R badge and it's 10k premium over the GTI (no offense to the current R intended). (of course this will cannibalize at least 30% of Audi TT quattro sales)

      Do it, DO IT NOW!
      The rumors floating around right now are that the Golf will have a basic (already announced) weight reduction, the GTI will have even more by using some form of high strength aluminum in various places, and the Golf R will have the most weight reduction by using a combination of high strength aluminum and carbon fiber. (Keep in mind this is just a rumor.) This leads me to assume that a Carbon GTI will mostly just be a GTI shoved into the body shell of lighter weight Golf R chassis. According to the Autocar article, the Hybrid and Electric models will share this light weight chassis also. My major concern is that if all of this is remotely true, will VWOA (and/or VWAG) be willing to put in the investment to allow our market to share in these advancements, or will they cut costs (figuring that us Americans won't notice the difference) and simply use the basic Golf chassis for every single North American model? It's a valid question and I think we enthusiasts will feel a bit put off (to put it mildly) if they opt to save cost and just use the high strength steel basic Golf chassis for the GTI and any potential Golf R.
      Last edited by randomkoreanguy; 09-12-2012 at 11:44 PM.
      Thereís more to it than that, though. I feel the fast Golf is a part of me. Weíve grown up together. When it came along, all simple and full of fun, I was living in a flat in London. Now itís soft and luxurious and Iím slouched in a house in the Cotswolds. Itís like 1970s rock music. New stuff comes along which Iím sure is cleaner and better produced but it doesnít have the heart and soul of the original.

    9. Member Waterfan's Avatar
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      09-13-2012 12:42 AM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by randomkoreanguy View Post
      The rumors floating around right now are that the Golf will have a basic (already announced) weight reduction, the GTI will have even more by using some form of high strength aluminum in various places, and the Golf R will have the most weight reduction by using a combination of high strength aluminum and carbon fiber. (Keep in mind this is just a rumor.) This leads me to assume that a Carbon GTI will mostly just be a GTI shoved into the body shell of lighter weight Golf R chassis. According to the Autocar article, the Hybrid and Electric models will share this light weight chassis also. My major concern is that if all of this is remotely true, will VWOA (and/or VWAG) be willing to put in the investment to allow our market to share in these advancements, or will they cut costs (figuring that us Americans won't notice the difference) and simply use the basic Golf chassis for every single North American model? It's a valid question and I think we enthusiasts will feel a bit put off (to put it mildly) if they opt to save cost and just use the high strength steel basic Golf chassis for the GTI and any potential Golf R.
      I had seen some of these rumors before. If true, it will be very satisfying.

      Obviously, I too have SERIOUS doubts our US GTI and R models will have all of the chassis advancements (and other features) available in EU. *sadface*

      I even doubt we will see another US Golf R sooner than 2015. If we have to wait that long again, that f--ker had better be all carbonified when it gets here.

    10. Member XM_Rocks's Avatar
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      09-13-2012 08:29 AM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by randomkoreanguy View Post
      It sounds fantastic, but carbon fiber bodywork of any sort is not cheap
      I don't see anything about Carbon Fiber in that article... just aluminum.

      I would love to see this edition... a 265HP 2,600lb AWD GTI sounds great.

    11. Member randomkoreanguy's Avatar
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      09-13-2012 11:43 PM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by XM_Rocks View Post
      I don't see anything about Carbon Fiber in that article... just aluminum.

      I would love to see this edition... a 265HP 2,600lb AWD GTI sounds great.
      Quote Originally Posted by autocar.co.uk
      The carbon GTi has been conceived partly as a tribute to the original, pared-down GTi. Its front bulkhead, windscreen surround and floor panels will be fashioned from lightweight aluminium and the roof and bonnet from hi-tech carbonfibre. These advanced materials could shave up to 200kg off the Carbon GTiís kerb weight, compared with todayís GTi, pushing it towards a highly competitive 1125kg.
      Autocar mentions carbon fiber.
      Thereís more to it than that, though. I feel the fast Golf is a part of me. Weíve grown up together. When it came along, all simple and full of fun, I was living in a flat in London. Now itís soft and luxurious and Iím slouched in a house in the Cotswolds. Itís like 1970s rock music. New stuff comes along which Iím sure is cleaner and better produced but it doesnít have the heart and soul of the original.

    12. Member randomkoreanguy's Avatar
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      09-13-2012 11:48 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by Waterfan View Post
      I had seen some of these rumors before. If true, it will be very satisfying.

      Obviously, I too have SERIOUS doubts our US GTI and R models will have all of the chassis advancements (and other features) available in EU. *sadface*

      I even doubt we will see another US Golf R sooner than 2015. If we have to wait that long again, that f--ker had better be all carbonified when it gets here.
      I'm sure there are people fighting to try and include it at VWOA, as well as conservative folks arguing against it (for cost reasons), but if we do get most of the advancements, I'm sure a lot of us will be very excited. VW has been consistently surprising me lately, so I'm going to adopt a "wait and see" approach as to how all of this unfolds. My hope is that they include a lot of the new innovations (including the chassis advancements) in an effort to fight the 'cheapened Americanized VW' label that they've picked up ever since the debut of the latest Jetta. One can only hope.
      Thereís more to it than that, though. I feel the fast Golf is a part of me. Weíve grown up together. When it came along, all simple and full of fun, I was living in a flat in London. Now itís soft and luxurious and Iím slouched in a house in the Cotswolds. Itís like 1970s rock music. New stuff comes along which Iím sure is cleaner and better produced but it doesnít have the heart and soul of the original.

    13. Member Waterfan's Avatar
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      09-14-2012 12:13 AM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by randomkoreanguy View Post
      My hope is that they include a lot of the new innovations (including the chassis advancements) in an effort to fight the 'cheapened Americanized VW' label that they've picked up ever since the debut of the latest Jetta. One can only hope.
      I'm pretty much right there too. Hopeful but skeptical.

      These extra weight savings are actually exactly what VW needs to put the GTI and R back on the top of the hot hatch catergory. Sure the hp increases look small, but the weight savings will show up in better than expected 0-60, braking, fuel economy, etc.

      Imagine when a carbon/aluminum GTI with 'only' 222hp is only a few 10ths slower than the 270+hp mazadaspeed3, better in every other objective category and with none of the torquesteer issues and 5+mpg better. THAT is the killer package and it would CRUSH the competition.

      I'm getting way too excited at the idea. But this GTI or R would be brutally awesome.

    14. Member randomkoreanguy's Avatar
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      09-15-2012 02:55 PM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by Waterfan View Post
      I'm pretty much right there too. Hopeful but skeptical.

      These extra weight savings are actually exactly what VW needs to put the GTI and R back on the top of the hot hatch catergory. Sure the hp increases look small, but the weight savings will show up in better than expected 0-60, braking, fuel economy, etc.

      Imagine when a carbon/aluminum GTI with 'only' 222hp is only a few 10ths slower than the 270+hp mazadaspeed3, better in every other objective category and with none of the torquesteer issues and 5+mpg better. THAT is the killer package and it would CRUSH the competition.

      I'm getting way too excited at the idea. But this GTI or R would be brutally awesome.
      What's interesting is that from the article's details, it looks like all the weight savings is in the front, which will lead to better weight distribution (since the Golf is front heavy), better balance, and subsequently better handling characteristics. It looks like VW is taking a really proactive approach here, which is impressive given their somewhat conservative policies with the brand in the past. This weight savings is significant, and when combined with the bump in power (let's be honest, VW underrates their engines) will definitely push them back to the King of the proverbial Hill. This latest generation of hot hatches are being touted as threatening the GTI's throne, so I'm glad they're actively doing something to fight back.
      Thereís more to it than that, though. I feel the fast Golf is a part of me. Weíve grown up together. When it came along, all simple and full of fun, I was living in a flat in London. Now itís soft and luxurious and Iím slouched in a house in the Cotswolds. Itís like 1970s rock music. New stuff comes along which Iím sure is cleaner and better produced but it doesnít have the heart and soul of the original.

    15. 09-15-2012 04:46 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by randomkoreanguy View Post
      Autocar mentions carbon fiber.
      Notice that I used the term "composite". The marketing Gurus and publishers oftentimes incorrectly refer to all composites as carbon fiber.
      I am a VW Fan, but above all I am a Car Fan.

    16. Member chisai88's Avatar
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      09-15-2012 05:51 PM #16
      I would prefer this version with the proper engine to go along with it. I like where VW is headed with the weight reduction, but that doesn't mean the HP needs to be less too...

    17. Member randomkoreanguy's Avatar
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      09-15-2012 06:38 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by 1-VW View Post
      Notice that I used the term "composite". The marketing Gurus and publishers oftentimes incorrectly refer to all composites as carbon fiber.
      Well, being that this is just a rumor, the exact composite they decide to use remains to be seen, but the article does mention carbon fiber specifically by name, regardless of whether or not an actual production model will actually use it. But it does bear mentioning that many auto manufacturers are spending money trying to find cost effective ways to reduce weight, including some method of mass producing carbon fiber cheaply. If VW has made any headway into that field, it would be a good way to show off the technology (by placing it as a component in a mass produced model).
      Thereís more to it than that, though. I feel the fast Golf is a part of me. Weíve grown up together. When it came along, all simple and full of fun, I was living in a flat in London. Now itís soft and luxurious and Iím slouched in a house in the Cotswolds. Itís like 1970s rock music. New stuff comes along which Iím sure is cleaner and better produced but it doesnít have the heart and soul of the original.

    18. Member Waterfan's Avatar
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      09-15-2012 10:16 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by randomkoreanguy View Post
      What's interesting is that from the article's details, it looks like all the weight savings is in the front, which will lead to better weight distribution (since the Golf is front heavy), better balance, and subsequently better handling characteristics. It looks like VW is taking a really proactive approach here, which is impressive given their somewhat conservative policies with the brand in the past. This weight savings is significant, and when combined with the bump in power (let's be honest, VW underrates their engines) will definitely push them back to the King of the proverbial Hill. This latest generation of hot hatches are being touted as threatening the GTI's throne, so I'm glad they're actively doing something to fight back.
      Agree.

      Additionally, the driver/front passenger seating position is shifted slightly rearward as well, which will also help the car feel a bit more neutral.

    19. 09-18-2012 02:06 PM #19
      Not a carbon gti but still the most desirable render that I have seen to date.

      http://perlbal.hi-pi.com/blog-images...013-a-2014.jpg
      I am a VW Fan, but above all I am a Car Fan.

    20. 10-15-2012 07:44 PM #20
      Well it sounds great, but we'll see if we get a chance to have it in the US

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      10-26-2012 11:07 PM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by XM_Rocks View Post
      I don't see anything about Carbon Fiber in that article... just aluminum.

      I would love to see this edition... a 265HP 2,600lb AWD GTI sounds great.
      Make that RWD and it would be a blast.
      Current: 2014 TDI / 2013 Odyssey / 2002 S2000
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