Any updates on the Golf R traction control issue?

[Fahrvergnuugen]

Dyno'd my car last night and experienced the traction control issue first hand. The button to turn the traction control off on the console seemingly does nothing

On the dyno, the car finally threw an ABS code and then the traction control stopped working all together so we were able to do some pulls.

I remember reading about it earlier this year, but I haven't seen much since then. Has anyone come up with a solution to actually turn it off?

[John@Roc-Euro]

Did you press and hold it? Until the light came on? You can't fully defeat it, but that should be enough to get clean pulls.

[Fahrvergnuugen]

Did you press and hold it? Until the light came on? You can't fully defeat it, but that should be enough to get clean pulls.

Yes, I turned the TC off using the button but it didn't matter. The car wigged out once we started trying to spin the dyno with each wheel braking independently. Finally the ABS light came on and it gave up trying to save the car from going into the ditch

It's a 4WD dynapack, no rollers. A roller dyno might tricking the car into thinking its driving down the road, but with the dynapack, each pack is turned independently by the drivetrain only.

[Rebellionelite]

Yes, I turned the TC off using the button but it didn't matter. The car wigged out once we started trying to spin the dyno with each wheel braking independently. Finally the ABS light came on and it gave up trying to save the car from going into the ditch

It's a 4WD dynapack, no rollers. A roller dyno might tricking the car into thinking its driving down the road, but with the dynapack, each pack is turned independently by the drivetrain only.

Yikes, isn't that putting full strain on the Haldex system?

[jsausley]

You should disconnect the Haldex and only run FWD on a dyno like that...

[Fahrvergnuugen]

Yikes, isn't that putting full strain on the Haldex system?

Just like any dyno puts full strain on the entire driveline?

[Fahrvergnuugen]

You should disconnect the Haldex and only run FWD on a dyno like that...

Which would solve what exactly?

The rear wheels will not turn and the electronic stability program will freak out exactly the same way, thinking the rear wheels are sliding.

[webcrawlr]

Which would solve what exactly?

The rear wheels will not turn and the electronic stability program will freak out exactly the same way, thinking the rear wheels are sliding.

That's not true. APR does just that with their dynapack dyno and has recommended people either don't use AWD dynos that aren't mechanicly linked or to disable haldex as it causes stress on the system and doesn't give accurate results. It's a pratice the R32 folks have been doing for years.

[jsausley]

Exactly. ^

[Fahrvergnuugen]

That's not true. APR does just that with their dynapack dyno and has recommended people either don't use AWD dynos that aren't mechanicly linked or to disable haldex as it causes stress on the system and doesn't give accurate results. It's a pratice the R32 folks have been doing for years.

Can you explain why?

I'm skeptical because it doesn't really make any sense. The R20 has a newer generation haldex system, so just because APR disconnected the AWD on the R32 doesn't mean much, the ESP in those cars was far less sophisticated.

What I can tell you is that once the ESP faulted and stopped interfering (we got it to fault out by rolling to 5mph in 1st gear, shutting the car off then repeating, both times with traction control switched off) the car made a nice smooth pull. The haldex went full lock and all four packs spun, exactly as expected.

I understand that when the haldex is locked, it generates heat, but there are temp sensors and a safety fault for that too if it over heats. Besides, I wouldn't expect that it would overheat in a 30 second dyno pull.

What else could possibly be "stressed"?


The ESP in this car is maddening which is really too bad. I don't even know why they bothered putting in a switch for turning it off. It reminds of the button at a cross walk to trip the traffic light

[ThatVdub]

there are enough of these stupid threads

get a mustang if you want RWD dammit.

[Fahrvergnuugen]

there are enough of these stupid threads

get a mustang if you want RWD dammit.

Have an M3, don't need one.

[Harryshah]

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...CONTROL-Golf-R

[Fahrvergnuugen]

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...CONTROL-Golf-R

I have no idea how I missed this. I searched the R forum for "Traction"

THanks for the link, sub'd

[UF DUB]

To date, there are no commercially available ways to shut off the ESP aside from CARPI tuning and I think ROTH as well. It is being discussed all around the world. APR knows how to shut it off and did do so on their MaxR, however they don't plan on letting the rest of us in on it. I have contacted ROTH, and they need to have the ECU/car in front of them to do the disable. For us, we will need to really encourage the aftermarket community (GIAC, APR, HPA, UM, REVO, Unitronic, etc) to come up with a solution. That is our best bet for the moment; time will tell.

Naysayers, dooms day prophets, and people that will say "you don't need ESP defeat to drive fast," some of us aren't interested in your non-help.

This topic has been discussed at length, but I too still am looking for a solution and am looking forward to the potential day of turning it off.

[Fahrvergnuugen]

To date, there are no commercially available ways to shut off the ESP aside from CARPI tuning and I think ROTH as well. It is being discussed all around the world. APR knows how to shut it off and did do so on their MaxR, however they don't plan on letting the rest of us in on it. I have contacted ROTH, and they need to have the ECU/car in front of them to do the disable. For us, we will need to really encourage the aftermarket community (GIAC, APR, HPA, UM, REVO, Unitronic, etc) to come up with a solution. That is our best bet for the moment; time will tell.

Naysayers, dooms day prophets, and people that will say "you don't need ESP defeat to drive fast," some of us aren't interested in your non-help.

This topic has been discussed at length, but I too still am looking for a solution and am looking forward to the potential day of turning it off.

Thanks for the info, and agreed.

The more people there are requesting this, the more likely someone like APR/GIAC/HPA/etc will offer a solution.

[KPgolfR]

talked to apr in person. i was informed that vw told them how to do and it is fairly easy ( not sure what would be easy) but they said that they will never release it with there software because vw does not want us to have it and vw would stop working with apr in the future.

[CALICSGR]

talked to apr in person. i was informed that vw told them how to do and it is fairly easy ( not sure what would be easy) but they said that they will never release it with there software because vw does not want us to have it and vw would stop working with apr in the future.

It's really fvcket up what VW did with that system. I think the US allows the manufacturer to put an off switch on the vehicle, but makes it illegal to tamper with whatever the manufacturer installs. So what does VW do? They decide not to include the button where it's needed most. Everybody else gets the off switch except the US. That's some freedom hating bull****, they're probably still pissed about WW2. Who knows? I'm sure the real reason is LAME!

It will be interesting to see what they do with the MKVII R. If it has undefeatable ESP, no way i would trade my MKVI which despite the ESP thing is an amazing car.

[Cortexiphan]

they're probably still pissed about WW2..

Seriously?

[_leo_]

It's really fvcket up what VW did with that system. I think the US allows the manufacturer to put an off switch on the vehicle, but makes it illegal to tamper with whatever the manufacturer installs. So what does VW do? They decide not to include the button where it's needed most. Everybody else gets the off switch except the US. That's some freedom hating bull****, they're probably still pissed about WW2. Who knows? I'm sure the real reason is LAME!

It will be interesting to see what they do with the MKVII R. If it has undefeatable ESP, no way i would trade my MKVI which despite the ESP thing is an amazing car.

lmao the funny thing is Canada did the most damage and played the biggest role in the defeat of the Nazi's, if it wasn't for the Canadian spys no one would have ever known where the Panzer tanks were if anything they should be pissed at Canada not the USA, but thats besides the point lol the undefetable ESP is VWoAs doing so take it up with them and their thinking that it is in your traffic act to have it this way. they have grasped the concept that TC make it hard to get up slopes or get the car moving in the snow, i can't tell you how many times i've left my ESP on and couldn't get my old GTI moving once i backed out of my driveway, ESP just clamped the brakes and retarded the engine to much to actually get it to move

[watsonj0]

To date, there are no commercially available ways to shut off the ESP aside from CARPI tuning and I think ROTH as well. It is being discussed all around the world. APR knows how to shut it off and did do so on their MaxR, however they don't plan on letting the rest of us in on it. I have contacted ROTH, and they need to have the ECU/car in front of them to do the disable. For us, we will need to really encourage the aftermarket community (GIAC, APR, HPA, UM, REVO, Unitronic, etc) to come up with a solution. That is our best bet for the moment; time will tell.

Naysayers, dooms day prophets, and people that will say "you don't need ESP defeat to drive fast," some of us aren't interested in your non-help.

This topic has been discussed at length, but I too still am looking for a solution and am looking forward to the potential day of turning it off.

Can I get the contact info for Roth, I have no problem sending them my ECU

[KPgolfR]

i wish it could be turned off for when you want to have fun and do crazy things but i took my stage 2 plus car with about everything you can bolt on to an R and i went to willow springs race track and being my first time on a race track i kept the traction control on and i cant say that it came on once. if anything im happy it was on just in case a ohh **** moment came. i think that in a track setting unless you a professional you wont really need to turn it off

[webcrawlr]

Can you explain why?

I'm skeptical because it doesn't really make any sense. The R20 has a newer generation haldex system, so just because APR disconnected the AWD on the R32 doesn't mean much, the ESP in those cars was far less sophisticated.

What I can tell you is that once the ESP faulted and stopped interfering (we got it to fault out by rolling to 5mph in 1st gear, shutting the car off then repeating, both times with traction control switched off) the car made a nice smooth pull. The haldex went full lock and all four packs spun, exactly as expected.

I understand that when the haldex is locked, it generates heat, but there are temp sensors and a safety fault for that too if it over heats. Besides, I wouldn't expect that it would overheat in a 30 second dyno pull.

What else could possibly be "stressed"?


The ESP in this car is maddening which is really too bad. I don't even know why they bothered putting in a switch for turning it off. It reminds of the button at a cross walk to trip the traffic light

So you are saying all the time the car was freaking out and throwing codes was a no harm situation? I have a hard time beleiving that. Sure gen 4 is predicitve vs reactive but that's not going to change anything if all four wheels can spin indepenantly of eachother. As far as the car knows its on an icy road somewhere and is seeing traction loss. It's exactly why you want a mechanicly linked dyno for AWD cars of this nature.

After good tires and the HPA comp controller I have very little issue with ESP. Turning it off to do donuts this winter or rear wheel steer every now and then would be fun but for "normal" driving it really doesn't bother me.

[Fahrvergnuugen]

So you are saying all the time the car was freaking out and throwing codes was a no harm situation?

Yes, the ESP/ABS system was braking the wheels independently at 5mph for about 10 seconds. Shut the car off, start back up, 10 more seconds and then it disables itself completely. It has a fault mode in case you have an ABS sensor failure so you can actually drive the car to a shop and get it fixed. This is no where near as stressful on driveline components as when the ESP engages in the real world.

I have a hard time beleiving that. Sure gen 4 is predicitve vs reactive but that's not going to change anything if all four wheels can spin indepenantly of eachother. As far as the car knows its on an icy road somewhere and is seeing traction loss. It's exactly why you want a mechanicly linked dyno for AWD cars of this nature.

The dynapack was set to give equal load to all four corners. The front and rear open differentials give a 50/50 torque split by design. The haldex was full lock. This means that the driveline was delivering even power and nothing was "stressed".

After good tires and the HPA comp controller I have very little issue with ESP. Turning it off to do donuts this winter or rear wheel steer every now and then would be fun but for "normal" driving it really doesn't bother me.

That's fine, but there are a large number of MK6 owners who want the ability to disable traction control the way it could be disabled in the MK5. I traded my MK5 GTI in for a MK6 R, I don't want to go backwards in features.

[webcrawlr]

We can agree to disgree then. I'll take the advice of APR, you go off your gut.

Backwards? Did the Mk5 have stability control? Traction control can be fully disabled, I do it everytime I get in to the car. Stability control on the other hand cannot. It's been known since the very begining so if it was a sore point why did you even bother?

[Fahrvergnuugen]

We can agree to disgree then. I'll take the advice of APR, you go off your gut.

Backwards? Did the Mk5 have stability control? Traction control can be fully disabled, I do it everytime I get in to the car. Stability control on the other hand cannot. It's been known since the very begining so if it was a sore point why did you even bother?

If you want to believe something without understanding it, that's fine with me!

The MK5 has very similar ESP to the MK6, if the car beings to slide, it reads a bunch of factors such as throttle position, brake, steering input, individual wheel speed, etc then applies the brakes via the ABS pump to individual wheels to correct the slide. If you try to ebrake slide a MK5 in the snow, the ESP will prevent it from going very far.

Pressing the traction control button disables ESP in the MK5.

[UF DUB]

Some people are happy to have non-defeatable ESP. That's fine. If I had the option, I would leave it on most of the time, except when I wanted to turn it off (never on a public road). However, I would prefer to have the option. I am happy with the car and I will keep it, but I will still look for a solution and encourage tuners to provide an option. Eventually, someone will make an option (supply and demand) and will make decent profit from it. I appreciate vw makin this car, but it would not have been wrong to give us the OPTION to disable it, like many other manufacturers do.

[SoNgMaN]

find a tech at a dealer that will help you out can't they reprogram the ABS module there?

or move to Canada and have the module replaced.

can't wait for zee winter

[Fahrvergnuugen]

This is interesting http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2011...ti-and-golf-r/

[CALICSGR]

Some people are happy to have non-defeatable ESP. That's fine. If I had the option, I would leave it on most of the time, except when I wanted to turn it off (never on a public road). However, I would prefer to have the option. I am happy with the car and I will keep it, but I will still look for a solution and encourage tuners to provide an option. Eventually, someone will make an option (supply and demand) and will make decent profit from it. I appreciate vw makin this car, but it would not have been wrong to give us the OPTION to disable it, like many other manufacturers do.

Not so sure about tuners eventually offering a product if it's illegal under the laws, which I believe it is.

[Rebellionelite]

This is interesting http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2011...ti-and-golf-r/

Not really, look at the date it was published...

[Fahrvergnuugen]

Not really, look at the date it was published...

Yeah i know it's old. I thought it was interesting though because I didn't realize until now that there is an actual law effective for 2012 MY cars about TC and ESP. Explains a lot.

[ThatVdub]

Some one just send me the file with instructions.
I have nothing to lose, and willing to get sued by any and everybody.

I will help everyone out, and make as much money doing it, while hiding it in a not so safe (whistleblowing) swiss account.

[bsmith75]

but with the dynapack, each pack is turned independently by the drivetrain only

Haldex cars need to be dyno'd on mechanically coupled dynomometers otherwise there is risk of damaging the Haldex clutch.

Check out this oldie but goodie: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...=GOLF+dyno+AWD

AAC welder - "If the front and rear rollers on the dyno are not mechanically linked, then yes, the dyno could potentially cause damage to the transmission. You want the front and rear rollers of the dyno turning at a 1 to 1 ratio. Otherwise, you're depending solely on the haldex system to maintain the 1 to 1 ratio, which is no good. "

ScratchRob- "The Dynapak that APR has doesnt do that... hence why they pulled the fwd numbers only. "

[Fahrvergnuugen]

Haldex cars need to be dyno'd on mechanically coupled dynomometers otherwise there is risk of damaging the Haldex clutch.

Check out this oldie but goodie: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...=GOLF+dyno+AWD

AAC welder - "If the front and rear rollers on the dyno are not mechanically linked, then yes, the dyno could potentially cause damage to the transmission. You want the front and rear rollers of the dyno turning at a 1 to 1 ratio. Otherwise, you're depending solely on the haldex system to maintain the 1 to 1 ratio, which is no good. "

ScratchRob- "The Dynapak that APR has doesnt do that... hence why they pulled the fwd numbers only. "

Yes, that makes perfect sense. If the front and rear are not turning the same speed, you will destroy the haldex. It's not built like a center torsen diff in an audi for example...

My understanding of the dynapack is that it actively monitors the speed of each pack and synchronizes them by keeping the correct load on each corner, which makes sense because you can dyno an open differential 2wd car on one and the packs are not mechanically linked.

That being said I'm going to talk to my buddy who owns the dyno and see if the log files capture pack RPM.