Shifting smoothly from 1st to 2nd...

[DaLeadBull]

I know that a lot of new stick drivers have this issue but I wanted to know what specifically works for our cars.

So, the R is my first stick car and I've only been driving stick for 5-6 months now. I know that smoothness comes with time. I feel pretty comfortable with my skills overall (still have some issue with hill starts and smooth starts in general). I know smoothness comes with time and practice but I feel like its not much help when I don't know what I'm doing wrong when it comes to upshifting from 1st to 2nd. All other shifts are smooth.

When I try to shift normally, the car jerks. So, I tried releasing the clutch slower, this gets rid of the jerk but it bogs the engine. I've tried various things like getting back on the gas a little sooner, or pausing/slowing down the clutch release through the engagement point but I just can't seem to figure out what works and what doesn't.

Is this just an issue of a larger gear ratio gap, rev hang, or what? Any of you pros out there care to help me out?

[jsausley]

For normal driving, let the engine rev more smoothly. Don't put so much throttle input in. Smoother feet = smoother shifts. What you're probably doing is getting into boost in first gear and then shifting before the car has time to settle (it still want to accelerate, and then all of a sudden you're pushing the clutch in and putting it back to an idle). Just be more careful with your right foot and accelerate slower in normal driving.

If you want to take off from a light semi-fast, just let the engine rev more. If you're giving it quarter or third throttle, let it rev all the way to 3500-4000.

This stuff is hard to explain, but easy to do. Just try different things. Driving a manual smoothly is all about balance and learning to communicate with the engine and letting the engine talk back to you.

[BigmountainVMD]

It definitely takes time to feel it, but just try to recognize where the RPMs end up after the shift. So if you take it up to 4000 in first, then shift quick to second and let out the clutch (with the jerk you mention) the RPMs will lie just below 3000 (2900ish I think?) so that's the point that you would want to release the clutch in the future to not have the jerk. That point is different in every gear and can vary depending on the RPM you decide to shift at. From 5th at 3000 to 6th, RPMs will drop to 2600 or so. Obviously the jerkiness is worse at lower gears, but keep playing with it and it will become natural. Just know that the drop in RPMs will be larger from 1st to 2nd than for any other gear change.

[B0000rt]

For normal driving, let the engine rev more smoothly. Don't put so much throttle input in. Smoother feet = smoother shifts. What you're probably doing is getting into boost in first gear and then shifting before the car has time to settle (it still want to accelerate, and then all of a sudden you're pushing the clutch in and putting it back to an idle). Just be more careful with your right foot and accelerate slower in normal driving.

If you want to take off from a light semi-fast, just let the engine rev more. If you're giving it quarter or third throttle, let it rev all the way to 3500-4000.

This stuff is hard to explain, but easy to do. Just try different things. Driving a manual smoothly is all about balance and learning to communicate with the engine and letting the engine talk back to you.

That's what I do when I'm driving with other people in the car, before shifting, I'd let off the throttle before I depress the clutch, so the car would start to engine brake then I'd depress the clutch and shift.

[DaLeadBull]

For normal driving, let the engine rev more smoothly. Don't put so much throttle input in. Smoother feet = smoother shifts. What you're probably doing is getting into boost in first gear and then shifting before the car has time to settle (it still want to accelerate, and then all of a sudden you're pushing the clutch in and putting it back to an idle). Just be more careful with your right foot and accelerate slower in normal driving.

If you want to take off from a light semi-fast, just let the engine rev more. If you're giving it quarter or third throttle, let it rev all the way to 3500-4000.

This stuff is hard to explain, but easy to do. Just try different things. Driving a manual smoothly is all about balance and learning to communicate with the engine and letting the engine talk back to you.

I think you're on to something with the getting into boost in 1st and ending up out of it when you shift into 2nd.

I notice that the 1st to 2nd shift is a lot smoother when I shift around 2-2.5k but when I take it up to 3000 that's when the bucking bronco comes out.

I guess in our cars, shifting to 2nd when doing 3000 in 1st is a no no. So, is it recommended that I either shift at 2500 or 3500 for smoother 1st to 2nd shifts?

[BigmountainVMD]

I think you're on to something with the getting into boost in 1st and ending up out of it when you shift into 2nd.

I guess in our cars, shifting to 2nd when doing 3000 in 1st is a no no. So, is it recommended that I either shift at 2500 or 3500 for smoother 1st to 2nd shifts?

I disagree with this. You should be able to shift at any RPM without jerk, as long as the resulting shift keeps the tach above 1000. If you shift at 3000 to 2nd, the RPMs will be just below 2000. The closer you get to that RPM (1900ish) when you let out the clutch, the less jerk there will be.

[Dutchmastr9]

granny shifting, not double clutching like you should

[DaLeadBull]

granny shifting, not double clutching like you should

lol double clutch upshifting every time? No thanks, unless you want me to start grinding my gears every day.

[Dutchmastr9]

lol double clutch upshifting every time? No thanks, unless you want me to start grinding my gears every day.

[DaLeadBull]

Oh no I got the joke but I'm just saying...

Cus the first few times I tried rev match downshifting, I grinded my gears and it hurt me deep man, very deep. Never want to hear that sound again.

[B0000rt]

lol double clutch upshifting every time? No thanks, unless you want me to start grinding my gears every day.

You don't need to double clutch during rev matching..

Depress Clutch
Shift & Blip throttle
Release Clutch

Double clutching would be
Depress Clutch
Shift into Neutral
Release Clutch
Depress Clutch
Shift into Gear
Blip throttle
Release Clutch

I only double clutch when shifting into First.

[webcrawlr]

This car has horrible engine/drivetrain flex from first to second. A lot of the jerkiness you are feeling is the engine/drivetrain shifting back to the unloaded postion when you push the clutch in. I'd bet those with HPA, BFI, etc mounts don't have nearly the amount of flex or jerkiness that those with stock mounts do.

[mr_dict]

This car has horrible engine/drivetrain flex from first to second. A lot of the jerkiness you are feeling is the engine/drivetrain shifting back to the unloaded postion when you push the clutch in. I'd bet those with HPA, BFI, etc mounts don't have nearly the amount of flex or jerkiness that those with stock mounts do.

this.

honestly, i do see the jerkiness in shifts from first to second, but was able to negate it with smoother feet and avoiding shifting at the beginning of the boost (around 3000 rpm).

[GTIVRon]

You don't need to double clutch during rev matching..

Depress Clutch
Shift & Blip throttle
Release Clutch

Double clutching would be
Depress Clutch
Shift into Neutral
Release Clutch
Depress Clutch
Shift into Gear
Blip throttle
Release Clutch

I only double clutch when shifting into First.

I do it a bit differently:

Double clutching would be
Depress Clutch
Shift into Neutral
Release Clutch
Blip throttle
Depress Clutch
Shift into Gear
Release Clutch

That just feels smoother since it gets the clutch and pressure plate up to speed too.


As far as smoother shifting into 2nd... I come off the clutch just a hair slower than any other shift (every other shift I just come right off of it just as fast as clutching in..) but I also wait a bit longer for the RPMs to drop. This is due to the larger ratio. Do this:

Shift into 2nd like you normally would, but don't start accelerating. Take some time to notice what RPM you are at (if you always up shift from 1st at the same RPM, otherwise note that too). Then next time you take off, clutch in, wait until the RPM drops to maybe 100 RPM above where it will be when you clutch out, start coming off the clutch just a bit slower than the rest of your up shifts, and slowly START getting onto the throttle just as you pass 1/3rd of the clutch travel coming back up.

To make the cut smoother just start lifting off the throttle like half a second before you are about to clutch in.

[jsausley]

It's getting a little intense in here.

I've never really thought about any of this while driving a stick... but maybe it's because I've been doing it forever, lol.

The only thing you have to think about is rev matching during heel-toe.

[ignitionlive]

This car has horrible engine/drivetrain flex from first to second. A lot of the jerkiness you are feeling is the engine/drivetrain shifting back to the unloaded postion when you push the clutch in. I'd bet those with HPA, BFI, etc mounts don't have nearly the amount of flex or jerkiness that those with stock mounts do.

that for sure ^ I have yearssss of experience driving stick and this car is very balky in the first to second shift, the more practice with it the better it gets, however I really need to think about some better mounts as you stated.

[heimbachae]

next time i'm up in that area i'll show you how to drive it hah nah i'm just messing. i drove one, it's nothing different than my 09 GTI, just takes some time to get used to. it's a dance, time will make you better.

[webcrawlr]

I should also mention that my shifts in general, especially 1st to 2nd at WOT, have gotten much better after adding the HPA comp controller. There seems to be less drivetrain unloading and a lot less weight transfer to the front since the controller keeps the rear tires under load when braking.

[Weasel Soup]

When you're at the correct RPM the shifter slots into the next gear with very little effort. If the lever isn't slotting in smoothly relax briefly and try again, the syncros might have not lined up properly, especially in extreme cold. Every car has a different 'sweet spot' for shifting during daily driving, and every car performs different shifting at WOT compared to puttering around. Don't treat the throttle as an on/off switching between gears, you just need to ease back enough to let the RPMs fall far enough to slot in the next cog. If your RPMs drop too far then the transmission has to do the extra work of bringing the engine back up to the speed the wheels are traveling, resulting in the bucking feeling.

Being smooth shifting a manual just takes practice, and first to second is the toughest. Go to an empty parking lot and practice starting from a stop, and then shifting to second. If you have enough room accelerate calmly to about 4k RPM, ease back off the gas as you simultaneously push the clutch all the way in. Just when the clutch pedal hits bottom the RPMs should have dropped just enough to slot the shifter into second. As soon as the lever gets into the gate for second gear freeze your right foot to hold the RPM steady and smoothly bring the clutch back up. As soon as the clutch grabs you know you're free to resume accelerating.

[SocalABT]

I think more than what RPM you're shifting at it's the finesse you put into the gas pedal as you're releasing the clutch. 1st to 2nd is the only time you need to give a little gas before depressing the clutch all the way. Try not to concentrate so much on making a smooth 1-2 shift instead just make it a smooth motion and like others above stated it will just come naturally.

Another thing is (coming from a S2000)our engagement point is pretty high at least for me so it took me a little time to get the timing down but I don't really notice the smoothness in shifts coming from different rpms unless of course I'm reving it high. Also I noticed it's easier to shift smoother with a stiffer clutch since you really feel the clutch engaging again this is just from my personal experience. Goodluck

[Dantescrub]

This going to sound kind of weird, but I find that wearing shoes that are not too soft in the soles makes for better clutch feel when finding the best friction point. I also find that resting my heel on the base of the gas pedal gives me more smoother shifts from 1 to 2. It helps me from putting the car into boost with a more heel to toe feel. Try not to step into the throttle. Give it some time and don't watch any movies with Vin Diesel driving a stick.

[Rubarb]

Double clutching? Are you serious??!

I've been driving stick since i could sit in a car and there is no need for double clutching. You've been watching to many movies! You can if you want rev match but there is no need to do it.

Are you really shifting to neutral first, releasing the clutch and then pressing it again and shift? :-)
You must be joking??

[Rubarb]

In order to shift smoothly don't look at the rpms. Feel when it's time.
Depress and release in one smooth motion and be gentle on the gas.

It's that easy and you will get the hang of it.
Eventually you can shift really fast during hard acceleration without the passengers feeling it.

Don't listen to advice about "the correct rpms" or any other excuse. :-)
If you know how to shift you can shift smoothly no matter the rpms.

[DaLeadBull]

Whoa old topic revival but I'm now happy to report that I have managed to smooth out my 1-2 shifts!

Now, if only I can get more consistent with launching (normal launches, not hard launches). I like the fact that I get excited every day to drive this car, as it gives me the chance to improve.

Since this is my first car with a stick, I will always have a special place for it in my heart!

[Nightowlbird]

Whoa old topic revival but I'm now happy to report that I have managed to smooth out my 1-2 shifts!

Now, if only I can get more consistent with launching (normal launches, not hard launches). I like the fact that I get excited every day to drive this car, as it gives me the chance to improve.

Since this is my first car with a stick, I will always have a special place for it in my heart!

I haven't tried this on my R but in the past I use to play around shifting the car without depressing the clutch. I called it synchro shifting..lol

I bought all my kids standard shift cars because I had grown up with standard when I was young and it give me more control over the car..besides most kids can't borrow or drive their car... Lol Back in the days my cars had a single slave master brake cylinder and if I lost brakes that's when you learn real quick on engine brakng if you lost a brake wheel cylinder or a brake line.. It takes time, believe me when I had to teach my kids to drive a stick I had brought my neck pillow and duct tape...

Nightowlbird

[BlackRabbit34]

I haven't tried this on my R but in the past I use to play around shifting the car without depressing the clutch. I called it synchro shifting..lol

I bought all my kids standard shift cars because I had grown up with standard when I was young and it give me more control over the car..besides most kids can't borrow or drive their car... Lol Back in the days my cars had a single slave master brake cylinder and if I lost brakes that's when you learn real quick on engine brakng if you lost a brake wheel cylinder or a brake line.. It takes time, believe me when I had to teach my kids to drive a stick I had brought my neck pillow and duct tape...

Nightowlbird

I used to do this in my Z all the time....oh and NOB...it creeps me out that you sign all of your posts nightowlbird. It makes me feel like that is really your first name..............




is it?

[Thedude4bides]

I haven't tried this on my R but in the past I use to play around shifting the car without depressing the clutch. I called it synchro shifting..lol

I bought all my kids standard shift cars because I had grown up with standard when I was young and it give me more control over the car..besides most kids can't borrow or drive their car... Lol Back in the days my cars had a single slave master brake cylinder and if I lost brakes that's when you learn real quick on engine brakng if you lost a brake wheel cylinder or a brake line.. It takes time, believe me when I had to teach my kids to drive a stick I had brought my neck pillow and duct tape...

Nightowlbird

I had that down in my mk4 1.8T. Kinda nervous to try in my R. I remember being all proud of myself when I first learned to synchro shift, but I forget the point of it... Other really knowing your gears really well, what good does it do?

[velocity196]

Smooth engagment isnt the best thing for a clutch. Quick consitant drop speeds while using the gas to regulate engine speeds. Constantly work to get the right combination and before you know it muscle memory is set and you dont even know it.

Hill assist is a lil tricky cuz sometimes it feels like its not going to release the brakes. From what ive found just stay committed in your launch and it will release. Use the same clutch drop smooth and quick yet more throttle and BOOM,your off and rolling .

My 2 cents

[Denver_Larry]

For the 1-2 gear change, just slow yourself down. Most of the jerkiness comes from not letting the revs drop to match where they will be once second gear is engaged. My wife drove my car last week, then was a passenger with me driving the next day. She actually asked me what I did to shift smooth like that. (I resisted the urge to comment regarding boys being born with 2 ball bearing and a stick shift - so they are naturally better ), gave her the tip about letting the revs drop a bit and then swapped out. She was instantly shifting much better in the 1-2 shift. You don't need to change too much, just drive a bit lazy and smooth!

[R201UP]

Come all of the way off the gas before you touch the clutch, that takes the jerkyness off of the 1-N portion, and then it's just a matter of feel and practice going from N-2 smoothly. Off of the gas pedal completely before depressing the clutch pedal was what saved me though

[Polz]

Double clutching? Are you serious??!

I've been driving stick since i could sit in a car and there is no need for double clutching. You've been watching to many movies! You can if you want rev match but there is no need to do it.

Are you really shifting to neutral first, releasing the clutch and then pressing it again and shift? :-)
You must be joking??

very useful from 1st to 2nd with VERY cold transmission, when rev-matching a downshift, when driving an MG Midget with no 1st gear sychro or an Alfa with a bad 2nd gear synchro.

[Waterfan]

Come all of the way off the gas before you touch the clutch, that takes the jerkyness off of the 1-N portion, and then it's just a matter of feel and practice going from N-2 smoothly. Off of the gas pedal completely before depressing the clutch pedal was what saved me though

Exactly this, IMO.

And the smoothness comes from not having to THINK about how fast/slow to bring the revs up and how fast/slow to re-engage the clutch for the given situation. (i.e. it will develop somewhat naturally over time.)

I have got to think that is is double tough to learn smooth manual trans driving on a turbo engine, and especially on a high-output one like the Golf R. The torque and revs come on so fast even +/- 100 rpm can make a difference.

[asiantrick]

Another thing is (coming from a S2000)our engagement point is pretty high at least for me so it took me a little time to get the timing down but I don't really notice the smoothness in shifts coming from different rpms unless of course I'm reving it high. Also I noticed it's easier to shift smoother with a stiffer clutch since you really feel the clutch engaging again this is just from my personal experience. Goodluck

I came from an AP2 also and the gear box in the R is as comparable to a Civic. So used to hitting 80 in 3rd gear in the s2k and now i have to shift to 4th when the car barely hit 70.

[GTIVRon]

I came from an AP2 also and the gear box in the R is as comparable to a Civic. So used to hitting 80 in 3rd gear in the s2k and now i have to shift to 4th when the car barely hit 70.

Lol. I hit 102 in 3rd in my 1.8T. But that was a 5 speed. But yes, the R's final is pretty damn short legged. As far as ratios... I feel they are pretty good.

[Spinozaman]

Lol. I hit 102 in 3rd in my 1.8T. But that was a 5 speed. But yes, the R's final is pretty damn short legged. As far as ratios... I feel they are pretty good.

Here's the ratios compared to the STI - assuming they both redline at 7000 which I know may not be totally correct...