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    Thread: "While it's opened up...."

    1. Member GeoffD's Avatar
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      09-20-2012 03:21 PM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by barry2952 View Post
      To each his own. Sometimes thing have to be done over time to fit financial constraints.
      Yep. This project has been done 100% out of cash flow.

      I also had a time constraint. I'd been unemployed for 14 1/2 months and had collapsed my life down to my vacation home at a ski resort. Once the lifts stop running in the spring, the sidewalks roll up. I didn't want to get stranded there for the summer and wanted to get back to salt water for May 1. I started house hunting in early October. I closed on my cottage in early December. I limited the scope of my first phase of remodeling to exclude anything on the exterior, bedrooms & bathroom. The scope was supposed to be move and open up walls in the kitchen, vault the kitchen & living room ceiling, hardwood floors in those sections, and install a new kitchen. I didn't anticipate that the first phase would include replacing forced hot air heat with forced hot water, complete do-over of domestic water and waste plumbing, or as much re-wiring as was done. I also didn't anticipate the amount of remedial carpentry that was needed on the 10x10 flat roof part of the cottage. I got in before Memorial Day rather than May 1 but the work got done. ...at 1.75x the original budget.

      One side effect of this whole approach is that my property taxes are much lower than if I'd torn it down and built a new place. Even though I essentially have a brand new house, the town thinks I have an old shack. Repairs and remodeling the rooms one at a time hasn't changed the value of the structure very much even though the town appraiser has walked through a few times. My insurance company thinks my 992 square foot structure has a $225K replacement cost if it burned to the ground. The town thinks it's worth $90K. In a house I plan to retire in, that ends up being a lot of money that isn't taken from my retirement savings.

    2. Member GeoffD's Avatar
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      09-22-2012 10:36 AM #37
      After new ridge board, rafters, and 3/4" plywood roof deck, the back roof is finally ready for shingles.



      I got to witness the magic of a good carpenter cheating everything to look like it's perfectly square in a cottage that is anything but. It took 2 carpenters almost two days to get the fascia, soffit, bargeboard, and drip edge installed before finally getting the ice & water shield and tri-flex down.


    3. Member barry2952's Avatar
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      09-22-2012 10:39 AM #38
      What's that offset pipe?
      Garmin Is My Pilot.

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    4. Member GeoffD's Avatar
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      09-22-2012 11:08 AM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by barry2952 View Post
      What's that offset pipe?
      I'm about 3 feet below the grade of the street. That is the vent for the sewer holding tank. There's is also an electrical conduit next to it. There is a macerating pump at the tank to push my waste water up to the sewer line in the street.

      That reminds me.... I keep meaning to sort out an audible/visual high water alarm/pump failure system for the tank. There should be a contact closure pair in that conduit but it's not hooked up to anything. The guy who installed the system retired years ago but I have the manual for the pump.

    5. Member barry2952's Avatar
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      09-22-2012 11:27 AM #40
      After what you've put into that house I sure wouldn't want it flooded with poop. If you need help, let us know. Have you considered a back-up system, JIC?
      Garmin Is My Pilot.

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    6. Member GeoffD's Avatar
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      09-22-2012 01:39 PM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by barry2952 View Post
      After what you've put into that house I sure wouldn't want it flooded with poop. If you need help, let us know. Have you considered a back-up system, JIC?
      Are you volunteering to dig up and mess with my holding tank?

      I could probably put a water sensor into the holding tank vent pipe at ground level where it's easy to inspect and replace.

    7. Senior Member Hostile's Avatar
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      09-24-2012 08:27 AM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by barry2952 View Post
      Nice space. Great use of light. We had skylights in our last house that would frost up from the humidity from kitchen use. How are you going to vent that space. We just ran our fan a lot.
      Interesting, my parents have a large skylight in their kitchen and I don't think they've ever had that issue. Theirs does have a vent built in that flips open/closed but I don't know how often they use it.

    8. Member GeoffD's Avatar
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      09-24-2012 06:38 PM #43
      So this phase of 'new roof' is done. I still have 1/4 of the roof to do but that's waiting until my winter bedroom remodel project.

      It still needs some trim paint, button vents installed in a soffit, and the gutters put back.



    9. Member barry2952's Avatar
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      09-24-2012 07:42 PM #44
      OK why the piece of downspout on the side of the house? It looks like it's housing some kind of wiring or piping.
      Garmin Is My Pilot.

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    10. Member GeoffD's Avatar
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      09-24-2012 10:13 PM #45
      Quote Originally Posted by barry2952 View Post
      OK why the piece of downspout on the side of the house? It looks like it's housing some kind of wiring or piping.
      The gutter is not installed yet. The gutter on the back of the house feeds the downspout on the right.

      On the left are the wiring conduit and vent for the sewer holding tank & pump. When it was wired, they ran ROMEX in the attic rather than underneath the crawl space.

    11. Member GeoffD's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 11:53 AM #46
      ...and the roofing project is done for the moment. The last quarter of the roof waits until the master bedroom ceiling is removed this winter to install new rafters.

      The extra cost for materials.... 3/4" plywood is only a few dollars more per sheet than the planned 1/2". A bunch of 2x8 rafters. New fascia and soffit in the back.
      The extra cost for labor.... I'm paying $35/hour x 2 for labor and it took 5 extra days so about $3K in labor and less than $1K for extra materials.

      Like everything else, the cost was about double what I was planning.

      One more remodeling phase to go this winter and I've run out of major projects for the cottage.




    12. Member barry2952's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 12:19 PM #47
      A structure is only as good as its roof. Yours looks fine.

      Did you buy enough matching shingles to complete the job? I had that happen when they had been discontinued. Do you know what it costs to ship a bundle of shingles cross-country?
      Garmin Is My Pilot.

      I am confident you are wrong, but instead of illustrating why, I will just make disparaging remarks about your reading comprehension.
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    13. Member GeoffD's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 12:33 PM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by barry2952 View Post
      A structure is only as good as its roof. Yours looks fine.

      Did you buy enough matching shingles to complete the job? I had that happen when they had been discontinued. Do you know what it costs to ship a bundle of shingles cross-country?
      I have a bunch more squares sitting on a pallet. The last piece of roof is invisible from the ground so it wouldn't be the end of the world if I were a few bundles short and the color didn't quite match. They are GAF Grand Slate Bristol Gray so they are very unlikely to be discontinued.

      I still have about 15 feet of roof over the master bedroom that has 2x4 rafters that are framed maybe 24" OC. The roof hasn't collapsed in 60 years so I should be OK until it gets re-framed with 16" OC 2x8s this winter.

    14. Member barry2952's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 12:58 PM #49
      It appears that you've insulated better. That could cause more snow to pile up during the winter. Might be handy to have a snow broom.
      Last edited by barry2952; 10-01-2012 at 01:05 PM.
      Garmin Is My Pilot.

      I am confident you are wrong, but instead of illustrating why, I will just make disparaging remarks about your reading comprehension.
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    15. Member GeoffD's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 02:11 PM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by barry2952 View Post
      It appears that you've insured better. That could cause more snow to pile up during the winter. Might be handy to have a snow broom.
      This is the 10'x10' flat roof with the pitched roof over the master bedroom and kitchen area. As you can see, the pitched roof over the master bedroom with 2x4 rafters is a very short span... less than 8 feet.

      The flat roof was re-framed from underneath 3 years ago. Most of it is 16" OC 2x12. I only have about 10 feet of iffy rafters over the master bedroom left.


      This is the flat roof looking towards the living room. This side sun-bakes and snow doesn't last on the flat roof for very long.
      Last edited by GeoffD; 10-01-2012 at 02:28 PM.

    16. Member barry2952's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 03:16 PM #51
      I have a similar rubber membrane on my roof. Very difficult to find leaks.

      Garmin Is My Pilot.

      I am confident you are wrong, but instead of illustrating why, I will just make disparaging remarks about your reading comprehension.
      -Zukjimpiphile

    17. Member GeoffD's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 04:01 PM #52
      Quote Originally Posted by barry2952 View Post
      I have a similar rubber membrane on my roof. Very difficult to find leaks.
      As you can see, mine was a very shoddy rubber roof installation full of wrinkles. When they installed it, they only replaced half the asphalt shingles and the old ones are in very tough shape.

      The good thing about the flat roof is that it's one piece with no penetrations. If nobody walks on it, the next one shouldn't fail for a very long time.

      I've been looking for something that will last longer than a traditional rubber roof but doesn't have any seams. Every alternative I've looked at comes in 10 foot rolls and would need a seam. I'm toying with just adding more pitch to it, covering it with ice & water shield, and using the same GAF lifetime shingles rather than a rubber roof.

    18. Member barry2952's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 06:36 PM #53
      How nice for you.
      Garmin Is My Pilot.

      I am confident you are wrong, but instead of illustrating why, I will just make disparaging remarks about your reading comprehension.
      -Zukjimpiphile

    19. 10-02-2012 02:41 AM #54
      The construction of the bathroom to the roof is nice.

    20. Member barry2952's Avatar
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      10-02-2012 11:23 AM #55
      Quote Originally Posted by arjem View Post
      The construction of the bathroom to the roof is nice.
      I assume English isn't your first language.
      Garmin Is My Pilot.

      I am confident you are wrong, but instead of illustrating why, I will just make disparaging remarks about your reading comprehension.
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    21. Member GeoffD's Avatar
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      10-02-2012 01:49 PM #56
      Quote Originally Posted by barry2952 View Post
      I assume English isn't your first language.
      Ya know, barry2952, you add a lot more value in this forum when you don't snipe at people. I'm sure you had no problem comprehending "construction of the bathroom to the roof" as vaulted ceiling. You should hear me butcher French, German, and Spanish. Try to keep it positive, please.

    22. Member barry2952's Avatar
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      10-02-2012 01:55 PM #57
      No, actually, I had no idea what that meant.
      Garmin Is My Pilot.

      I am confident you are wrong, but instead of illustrating why, I will just make disparaging remarks about your reading comprehension.
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    23. Member barry2952's Avatar
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      10-02-2012 02:08 PM #58
      You are correct. I should have used instead of .
      Garmin Is My Pilot.

      I am confident you are wrong, but instead of illustrating why, I will just make disparaging remarks about your reading comprehension.
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    24. Member GeoffD's Avatar
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      10-02-2012 03:37 PM #59
      Quote Originally Posted by barry2952 View Post
      You are correct. I should have used instead of .
      This thread needs some dancing giraffes.




      Back on-topic....

      I really want to put a "lifetime" membrane on my flat roof so I am not dealing with a roof replacement when I'm old, retired, and on a limited budget. I also really don't want any seams since that is a point of failure. I can get a 60 mil Firestone EPDM rubber roof rated for 25 years in widths wide enough that they don't have seams. From what I've seen, PVC with a seam is my only option if I want to have "lifetime" and that requires all kinds of special handling to deal with the seam where I'd need a special crew to come in and do it. For a 10x10 roof, I doubt they would be interested.

      Are there other options I'm overlooking?
      Last edited by GeoffD; 10-02-2012 at 03:49 PM.

    25. Member barry2952's Avatar
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      10-02-2012 04:27 PM #60
      Quote Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
      This thread needs some dancing giraffes.




      Back on-topic....

      I really want to put a "lifetime" membrane on my flat roof so I am not dealing with a roof replacement when I'm old, retired, and on a limited budget. I also really don't want any seams since that is a point of failure. I can get a 60 mil Firestone EPDM rubber roof rated for 25 years in widths wide enough that they don't have seams. From what I've seen, PVC with a seam is my only option if I want to have "lifetime" and that requires all kinds of special handling to deal with the seam where I'd need a special crew to come in and do it. For a 10x10 roof, I doubt they would be interested.

      Are there other options I'm overlooking?
      Why can't EPDM be seamed under controlled conditions and be delivered to you? If I were inquiring about this I would call a large commercial roofing company and ask to speak to the shop manager. They will often have cuts that are pretty worthless to them, but could be put together with huge overlaps, negating your concern with seams.

      I put an EPDM roof on my trailer. I believe the pieces were 10-feet wide. They have kits that include a special contact cement and butyl caulk both in rope and tube form.

      The roofers I hired must have caught quite a buzz.

      Garmin Is My Pilot.

      I am confident you are wrong, but instead of illustrating why, I will just make disparaging remarks about your reading comprehension.
      -Zukjimpiphile

    26. Member barry2952's Avatar
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      10-02-2012 04:35 PM #61
      I could be mistaken but, if those are 3-tab shingles you're going to need 14-15 feet, aren't you?



      Or, give it a better pitch and use ice shield and 3-tabs? Do you have a problem with ice damming?
      Last edited by barry2952; 10-02-2012 at 04:38 PM.
      Garmin Is My Pilot.

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    27. Member GeoffD's Avatar
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      10-02-2012 06:15 PM #62
      The flat roof footprint on the load bearing walls and beam structure below is 10x10. Above, the dimensions of the flat roof are quite a bit bigger than that to give it some pitch. I haven't measured it but 14' is about right. It also extends about 8" beyond the outside wall of the house.

      I figure I'll want to start with a 20'x20' piece of EPDM. The Firestone 60 mil stuff comes that wide in a roll where the roll is 10' long and the membrane is folded in half. 60 mil has a 25 year guarantee. Johns Manville has a similar product. From what I read, the studies that have been done on 45 mil EPDM show they're still in pretty good shape at 20 years. The studies I've been reading also say that most failures are at seams which is why I want a single piece.

      When it's installed, it will be run 36" the pitched roof the way you'd run ice and water shield and the whole thing is glued down so ice dams shouldn't happen. That is how it's installed now.

      Like I wrote previously, I'd really like a roof that lasts for longer than 20-25 years. I'd like to do it once and let somebody else worry about it after my funeral. The 90 mil EPDM has a 30 year warranty but only comes in 10 foot width. I simply don't want seams.

      PVC from IB Roofing comes with a lifetime residential warranty. The claim for PVC is that the seams are heat welded so they are stronger than the rest of the material. The problem is that nobody local that I know of has the equipment and training to weld the seams. I'd have to get an out-of-town roofing company to come in to do a tiny job and I doubt they'd be interested.

      I don't think I can add a fully pitched roof easily. I'd need to run new-longer collar ties over the vaulted kitchen and bathroom ceilings. I really don't want to mess with the part of the house that is already completely rebuilt.
      Last edited by GeoffD; 10-02-2012 at 06:29 PM.

    28. Member barry2952's Avatar
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      10-02-2012 06:36 PM #63
      Quote Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
      The flat roof footprint on the load bearing walls and beam structure below is 10x10. Above, the dimensions of the flat roof are quite a bit bigger than that to give it some pitch. I haven't measured it but 14' is about right. It also extends about 8" beyond the outside wall of the house.

      I figure I'll want to start with a 20'x20' piece of EPDM. The Firestone 60 mil stuff comes that wide in a roll where the roll is 10' long and the membrane is folded in half. 60 mil has a 25 year guarantee. Johns Manville has a similar product. From what I read, the studies that have been done on 45 mil EPDM show they're still in pretty good shape at 20 years. The studies I've been reading also say that most failures are at seams which is why I want a single piece.

      When it's installed, it will be run 36" the pitched roof the way you'd run ice and water shield and the whole thing is glued down so ice dams shouldn't happen. That is how it's installed now.

      Like I wrote previously, I'd really like a roof that lasts for longer than 20-25 years. I'd like to do it once and let somebody else worry about it after my funeral. The 90 mil EPDM has a 30 year warranty but only comes in 10 foot width. I simply don't want seams.

      PVC from IB Roofing comes with a lifetime residential warranty. The claim for PVC is that the seams are heat welded so they are stronger than the rest of the material. The problem is that nobody local that I know of has the equipment and training to weld the seams. I'd have to get an out-of-town roofing company to come in to do a tiny job and I doubt they'd be interested.

      I don't think I can add a fully pitched roof easily. I'd need to run new-longer collar ties over the vaulted kitchen and bathroom ceilings. I really don't want to mess with the part of the house that is already completely rebuilt.
      I use EPDM tape in-between the leaves of the springs of my old cars. Isn't it slippery on a pitch like that? I was under the impression that it was supposed to be used on flat roofs. The stuff on my trailer has a pattern that runs the length of it to make it less slippery.
      Garmin Is My Pilot.

      I am confident you are wrong, but instead of illustrating why, I will just make disparaging remarks about your reading comprehension.
      -Zukjimpiphile

    29. Member GeoffD's Avatar
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      10-02-2012 07:01 PM #64
      Quote Originally Posted by barry2952 View Post
      I use EPDM tape in-between the leaves of the springs of my old cars. Isn't it slippery on a pitch like that? I was under the impression that it was supposed to be used on flat roofs. The stuff on my trailer has a pattern that runs the length of it to make it less slippery.
      The depth of field in the photo is somewhat deceiving. The pitch of the roof is about 1:12 so it's a flat roof and feels flat when you're standing on it. I've only ever been on it when it's dry and it's not slippery at all then. If it had a 18" of wet slop on it, I don't think I'd trust the footing.
      Last edited by GeoffD; 10-02-2012 at 07:04 PM.

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