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    Thread: How would you go about flashing a non-flanged window?

    1. Senior Member dunhamjr's Avatar
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      09-13-2012 06:33 PM #1
      The story:
      So, before I knew any better, I had new windows installed in my house.
      Turns out the install sucked. I should have learned a lot more before letting that job happen.

      Anyways. Fast forward to today.

      So far I have found one slider and two windows, that will need to be reinstalled properly because I am seeing some signs of water infiltration, no rot yet... but I need to locked it down before anything bad happens.

      So now the windows are...
      100% vinyl frame. Not clad. No brickmold. No casing.
      Non flanged. No nailing fin aka nailing flange.

      Sample pic to clarify. This is a nailing fin, my windows don't have this. Mine are just a flat frame. So the frame is shimmed and screwed into the rough opening.


      Which sucks. But its what I have to work with unless I want to swap out 4 sliders, 20 windows and a bay window to move to flanged windows. Not gonna happen for at least another 10+ years, if even that soon.

      So now... the question.
      How the hell do I flash these things, so that I can basically guarantee that they are waterproof?


      I have been searching and I cannot find anywhere that I can find a good 'this is how its done' type of answer.

      What I have come up with is really just throwing a combination of materials at it during reinstalling the window and prayer.

      For materials:
      I have found a couple of sill pan options. Which I think I will only resort to for the sliding doors, since they will see a little more rain exposure and wear from the weight.

      This is the place I will likely get the sill plates from. Adjustable. ABS. Includes in interior lip, sloped weeping section and integrated lower corners.

      http://www.jamsill.com/


      There are various forms of flashing/sill tape. I have found some local that should do the trick.
      http://www.fortifiber.com/fortiflash.html


      If I don't get premade sill plates, this product could help me just use sill tape as a protective barrier while keeping the corners as water sealed as possible.


      I probably will also buy some house wrap, so that I can build the protection away from the RO a little bit with the flashing tape, then layered over with this house wrap, so that when I do the eventual siding replacement project... the whole house wrap can be done, up under this stuff.. but we will see how that all pans out.
      http://greenguard.pactiv.com/residen...-wrap.raindrop


      Another bit that I really think I will need to address, is to add in an upper drip cap.
      Like this, but since I don't have flanges/fins... I will either need to 'create' something or get a universal fit product.


      Getting a water proof install. This is where my real desire and issue lies.

      With flanges, I could just flash tape over them, and the union of window to house wrap would make it a done deal.

      Since I don't have flanges, I need to find a good reliable method to bridge the gap (so to speak) that the flange would normally occupy.

      I know this interior facing pic... but this is a sample of the gap my exterior view has because the windows I have are flangless.

      The exterior view of my window install (shimmed and screwed) would look similar to this, if it were not for the exterior window trim covering (hiding) the gap.
      Last edited by dunhamjr; 09-14-2012 at 10:19 AM.
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    2. Member robr2's Avatar
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      09-13-2012 09:29 PM #2
      So it's a traditional wood/clad window with a brick mold or casing?

      Here You Go

    3. Senior Member dunhamjr's Avatar
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      09-14-2012 01:21 AM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by robr2 View Post
      So it's a traditional wood/clad window with a brick mold or casing?

      Here You Go
      Sorry for leaving out that detail, I thought I put the window make up in there but guess not.

      Nope.
      The windows are 100% vinyl frame, not clad or anything. No brickmold. No interior casing.

      When the original install happened, the installer ordered them flangeless. The siding was cut back to easily pull the old windows. New windows screwed in place. 6 inch wood trim installed butt up to the window and caulked.
      Last edited by dunhamjr; 09-14-2012 at 01:28 AM.
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    4. Member unimogken's Avatar
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      09-14-2012 02:24 AM #4
      I have the same type of windows at my house.

      According to the inspector when we bought the house he said that they were first generation vinyl windows and were probably non-flanged. He explained to me what I should do later down the line (which is probably now....hehe) to improve them.

      He said to get a small circular saw and cut the siding off at either 4" or 6" around the whole window then seal up the gap between the window and plywood with expanding foam and tape it off. Then he said to trim it out with 1x4" or 1x6" and caulk around both the window/trim and siding/trim. Oh and he said to put a drip edge on the top trim.

      We'll see..... someday i'll end up doing this project to my house.
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    5. Member Slayer's Avatar
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      09-14-2012 08:23 AM #5
      ^ Good idea, but remember to use low expansion foam, otherwise it can warp the frame from putting too much pressure. That **** expands like crazy
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    6. Senior Member dunhamjr's Avatar
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      09-14-2012 10:22 AM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by unimogken View Post
      I have the same type of windows at my house.

      According to the inspector when we bought the house he said that they were first generation vinyl windows and were probably non-flanged. He explained to me what I should do later down the line (which is probably now....hehe) to improve them.

      He said to get a small circular saw and cut the siding off at either 4" or 6" around the whole window then seal up the gap between the window and plywood with expanding foam and tape it off. Then he said to trim it out with 1x4" or 1x6" and caulk around both the window/trim and siding/trim. Oh and he said to put a drip edge on the top trim.

      We'll see..... someday i'll end up doing this project to my house.
      that's about what i was thinking would be the only thing i could do...

      but i was thinking of going a further and actually pulling out the window so i can make sure to get some protection onto the bare RO before i do a 'forever install' on the window with foam, tape, etc.
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    7. Senior Member dunhamjr's Avatar
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      09-14-2012 10:25 AM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by Slayer View Post
      ^ Good idea, but remember to use low expansion foam, otherwise it can warp the frame from putting too much pressure. That **** expands like crazy


      yeah i have experience with a couple of those 'great stuff' foams. i have used the standard, big gap and window/door versions.

      couple other things about foams...
      they expand WAY more then you expect them too, no matter how careful you are you WILL make a mess.

      the shaker cans you buy all over are single use items. be sure that if you have 2 parts to a job that need the foam, that both parts are ready or else you will end up needing to buy a 2nd can.
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    8. Member Slayer's Avatar
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      09-14-2012 11:00 AM #8
      Oh, I know.. we had some where we were foaming inbetween wood that went from the old part of the house to the new, and every ****in can was a one time deal. Hit the trigger, and it never stopped until the damn can was empty. Once you let off, it would slow down some, but was a steady ooze. It was like trying to deal with 20 ounces of expanding boogers since it just gets everywhere, and sticks to everything
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    9. Senior Member dunhamjr's Avatar
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      09-14-2012 11:16 AM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by Slayer View Post
      Oh, I know.. we had some where we were foaming inbetween wood that went from the old part of the house to the new, and every ****in can was a one time deal. Hit the trigger, and it never stopped until the damn can was empty. Once you let off, it would slow down some, but was a steady ooze. It was like trying to deal with 20 ounces of expanding boogers since it just gets everywhere, and sticks to everything
      i have been lucky that nearly all of my foam cans did stop oozing. but set it aside for an hour and they will no longer work.

      absolutely have to wear gloves when you use this stuff.
      epitome
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    10. Member unimogken's Avatar
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      09-15-2012 03:02 PM #10
      I use the HILTI brand foam that I get from Home Depot and it shuts off between uses. It costs a bit more but nothing goes to waste like the cheaper cans of foam.

      As far as pulling the windows I wouldn't do that unless you are already planning to also redo the trim on the inside.

      It would also be a good time to run security wires if you want to have wired contacts.
      I really wish everyone would update their location in their profile!

      Someone buy my car already!!

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    11. Member Slayer's Avatar
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      09-15-2012 03:24 PM #11
      I will have to see if they have that brand.. All I usually see is the great stuff brand, and while the foam may be, the nozzles are not!
      Check out my Garage build thread 2008.5 GTI 2.0 TSI 6MT / APR K04 V3.1, APR IC, CTS 3" turbo back, Carbonio full intake, GFB DV+, BSH TB pipe, SB Stg2 Endurance clutch, BSH mounts, DG Shortshifter, FFM bracket bushings, Forge big knob, Koni coils, Coolingmist CMGS Meth injection, USRT spacer (DO3 & Snow 100 nozzles), 19" Miro stp3's, Centric rotors, Stoptech pads and TyrolSport bushings

    12. Member Mk1Racer's Avatar
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      09-15-2012 10:39 PM #12
      I'm pretty sure the Hilti foam has nozzles that screw on the end of the tube, and you can replace the nozzles for a new use. You can actually reuse the Great Stuff nozzles, but you have to clean them w/ acetone right after you stop using them. Once the foam sets, they're junk.

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      09-18-2012 01:35 PM #13
      Can you take a picture of one of the windows that is installed? Do you have any pictures during the window install to show the steps taken by the installer? How long ago did the windows get installed? If they are leaking I would think it would be covered under warranty for improper installation. Can you claim it on homeowners and have all the windows replace correctly?

    14. Senior Member dunhamjr's Avatar
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      09-28-2012 01:07 PM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by JsnVR6Corrado View Post
      Can you take a picture of one of the windows that is installed? Do you have any pictures during the window install to show the steps taken by the installer? How long ago did the windows get installed? If they are leaking I would think it would be covered under warranty for improper installation. Can you claim it on homeowners and have all the windows replace correctly?
      i dont think i have anything.

      i do plan to pull apart the exterior trim on one of the windows, so that i can better see what i need to do and plan how best to fix a bad situation... so i will try to remember to get pics at that time.

      the install was done like 7 years ago. no warranty on install. thats what i get for trying to cut costs (corners)...

      doubt home owners would do anything since i dont have receipts, documentation etc... from the installation. the only thing i have are receipts from actual window purchase.
      epitome
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      2.0 TDI "BHW" engine partout - @tdiclub @vwvortex

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