Driving on the highway, car lost all engine power, barely made it to side of the road. EPC, Traction, MIL On

[dremhmrk2]

Car is a 2001 GTI VR6 5-Speed

After waiting in the rain for a tow for 2 hours, I got it home and scanned in (and yes I updated the vagcom software first this time )

Symptoms, asides from the car nearly trying to kill me:
Starting the car is fine and it seems to idle fine.
If I leave it off for a bit and start it, only the check engine light remains, but give it gas or try to move and the EPC light comes back on.

There are some codes here that make no sense at all to me, and though everyone says this, this is my daily driver so now I'm without transportation...

Scan Results:

Thursday,13,September,2012,22:12:41:26263
VCDS Version: Release 11.11.4
Data version: 20120807



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 1J - VW Golf/Bora IV
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 16 17 19 22 29 35 36 37 39 46 47 55 56 57 75
76

Mileage: 253990km/157822miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 021-906-018-AFP.lbl
Part No: 021 906 018 M
Component: MOTRONIC ME7.1 G V006
Coding: 00031
Shop #: WSC 13106
VCID: 1831308B78F53CD8F95

8 Faults Found:
16795 - Secondary Air Injection System
P0411 - 35-00 - Incorrect Flow Detected
16518 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S1
P0134 - 35-10 - No Activity - Intermittent
16524 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S2
P0140 - 35-10 - No Activity - Intermittent
18047 - Accelerator Position Sensor 1/2 (G79/G185)
P1639 - 35-00 - Implausible Signal
18047 - Accelerator Position Sensor 1/2 (G79/G185)
P1639 - 35-00 - Implausible Signal
17796 - Control Module Malfunction - DBW Throttle Monitoring
P1388 - 35-10 - - Intermittent
16486 - Mass Air Flow Sensor (G70)
P0102 - 35-10 - Signal too Low - Intermittent
16497 - Intake Air Temp. Sensor (G42)
P0113 - 35-10 - Signal too High - Intermittent
Readiness: 0000 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 1J0-907-37x-ABS.lbl
Part No: 1J0 907 379 AF
Component: ASR 20 IE CAN 0001
Coding: 13204
Shop #: WSC 01317
VCID: 75EF193F4FA7A1B0023

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 3Bx-907-044.lbl
Part No: 3B1 907 044 C
Component: CLIMATRONIC C 0.7.0
Coding: 01000
Shop #: WSC 01317
VCID: 21471D6FABAF7D100EB

1 Fault Found:
01274 - Air Flow Flap Positioning Motor (V71)
37-00 - Faulty

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 6Q0-909-605-VW5.lbl
Part No: 6Q0 909 605 A
Component: 12 AIRBAG VW5 02 0004
Coding: 12594
Shop #: WSC 01317
VCID: 356FD93F0F27E1B0C23

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel Labels: 1J0-907-487.lbl
Part No: 1J0 907 487
Component: Lenkradelektronik X34
Coding: 00008
Shop #: WSC 01317
VCID: EEDDB653AAF11268439

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 1J0-920-xx5-17.lbl
Part No: 1J0 920 925 D
Component: A4-KOMBIINSTR. VDO V06
Coding: 07232
Shop #: WSC 01317
VCID: 2A55FA43D699BE485F1

Subsystem 1 - Part No: IMMO
Component: IDENTNR: VWZ7Z0Y2604393
IMMO-IDENTNR: VWZ7Z0Y2604393

2 Faults Found:
00771 - Fuel Level Sensor (G)
30-10 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent
01039 - Coolant Temperature Sensor (G2)
30-10 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
Part No: 6N0 909 901
Component: Gateway K<->CAN 0001
Coding: 00006
Shop #: WSC 01317
VCID: F0E1A82BB0C50498515

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 1J0-959-799.lbl
Part No: 1J0 959 799 AJ
Component: 62 Zentral-SG Komf. 0001
Coding: 00256
Shop #: WSC 01317
VCID: 860DEEF3A2413A289B9

Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1J1959801C
Component: 62 Tõrsteuerger. FS0002r

Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1J1959802D
Component: 62 Tõrsteuerger. BF0002r

4 Faults Found:
00953 - Interior Light Time limit
25-10 - Unknown Switch Condition - Intermittent
00943 - Heated Exterior Mirror; Driver Side (Z4)
35-00 - -
00913 - Window Regulator Switch; Front Right Driver (E81)
27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
00944 - Heated Exterior Mirror; Passenger Side (Z5)
35-00 - -

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio Labels: 1J0-035-18x-56.lbl
Part No: 1JM 035 157 A
Component: Radio DE2 0005
Coding: 02041
Shop #: WSC 00066
VCID: 3E7DC6133A1122E8139

No fault code found.

End ---------------------------------------------------------------------


I appreciate any help, after owning this car for 8 years, I've never had something like this happen to me.

[dremhmrk2]

Oh, just a note: The Secondary Air Codes, The AC Flap code and the Mirror codes are definitely old, not sure about the o2 codes, they might be old too.

Also I did disconnect the MAF after this happened while the car was idling to see if it changed anything, so those MAF codes might be related to that or the underlying problem.

Thanks again!

[Anony00GT]

Are the O2 sensor wires broken, shorted, etc?

[dremhmrk2]

Are the O2 sensor wires broken, shorted, etc?

I can of course take a look later this evening when I get back home, would this lead to being unable to gain any real power? The tow truck driver barely had enough get up and go to drive it up the back of the flat bed, it's not just driving poorly, it's BARELY driving.

[Anony00GT]

The APP codes are your problem. Shorted O2 sensor wires can burn down the throttle drivers in the ECU, the actual APP sensors rarely, if ever, go bad. This is usually a 1.8T problem though, but it's probably possible on VR6 as well.

[dremhmrk2]

The APP codes are your problem. Shorted O2 sensor wires can burn down the throttle drivers in the ECU, the actual APP sensors rarely, if ever, go bad. This is usually a 1.8T problem though, but it's probably possible on VR6 as well.

im going to get under the car tonight when its a little cooler outside, im going to check the wiring from the o2 sensors as far as i can.

if the o2 sensors were shorted, is this fixed by new sensors, or new wires, or will i need to fix the wires and replace the ECU?

[Anony00GT]

if the o2 sensors were shorted, is this fixed by new sensors, or new wires, or will i need to fix the wires and replace the ECU?

Yes.

If the ECU is burned down, it must be replaced. BUT the root cause (shorted O2 wires) must be repaired first, or the magic smoke will escape from the brand new ECU as well.

[Jack@European Parts]

Yes, Brian is correct.

I can help you with a new/reman ecu and a set of OXS sensors if interested.
Chances are you have a blown fuse right now, as well.

Data transfer is plug and play if you send your core.
For you though you don't need an SKC to adapt your engine ecu in VCDS.
Just 0x17-10-00 save and your good to go even with a used ecu.
You could benefit from a firmware update compared to where you are at now for the CAT and misfire recognition.

http://stores.ebay.com/europeanpartsperformance

[dremhmrk2]

So finally got some time to get under the car and take a look.

All of the wires for the o2 sensors look good, from the sensors up to where they go into the firewall by the coolant ball.

I also could not find a burnt out fuse... Any more suggestions guys?

[Peter Badore]

So finally got some time to get under the car and take a look.

All of the wires for the o2 sensors look good, from the sensors up to where they go into the firewall by the coolant ball.

I also could not find a burnt out fuse... Any more suggestions guys?

Sounds like your GTI is running in one of the emergency running modes due to a failured accelerator pedal position sensor? Check the wiring harness connector to the accelerator pedal or substitute a known good used pedal assembly from another MK4. I am not sure how many versions of pedal modules there are but there should be some interchange--check ETKA to be sure.

[Anony00GT]

Sounds like your GTI is running in one of the emergency running modes due to a failured accelerator pedal position sensor? Check the wiring harness connector to the accelerator pedal or substitute a known good used pedal assembly from another MK4. I am not sure how many versions of pedal modules there are but there should be some interchange--check ETKA to be sure.

He should be able to watch APP in measuring blocks. I've never seen a pedal sensor go bad though...on any type of car now that I think about it.

[dremhmrk2]

I could definitely measure something with vagcom if you guys can let me know where to look.

I MAY be able to get ahold of a known working pedal but that would take a while...

My o2 wires seemed perfect, they are only about 2 years old, car idles perfect, this is driving me crazy!

[Jack@European Parts]

It will most likely be the ecu and not a pedal potentiometer.

[dremhmrk2]

Before I just go and buy a new ECU I would like to be sure thats the issue and have a pretty good idea that the new replacement unit wont go kaput in short order as well...

[Jack@European Parts]

Agreed.
Thats why you should additionally fuse the known problem circuit so it cant damage a new unit.
Trouble with this circuit is its known for a hiding, being sporadic within the loom of the OXS sensor.

Sometimes you get lucky with obvious visuals.

[dremhmrk2]

Ok, so what amp fuse should I use, which wire in the looms should it go on, and will this at all affect the sensors readings, causing poor mileage or implosion of the space-time continuum?

Also, I bet this MIGHT be related... a while back I reported my temp gauge behaving badly. Specifically it would drop to zero and then come back to normal temps, and it seems to be related to hitting bumps in the road, does this info shed any light?

[Jack@European Parts]

I would change the OXS sensors anyway or leave unplugged until problem verified.

[Peter Badore]

Before I just go and buy a new ECU I would like to be sure thats the issue and have a pretty good idea that the new replacement unit wont go kaput in short order as well...

On my 01 GTI 1.8l turbo the ECU can be changed without need of an immobilizer code. Maybe the 01 GTI VR6 is the same but I have not tried an ECU swap with a an 01 VR6 GTI yet although I have one. You may be able buy a used ECU rather than a new unit. Jack what do you think?

[Jack@European Parts]

Correct Peter he can, but many used ecu's for VR6 are already bad for this problem.

In VCDS for IMMO 2 0x17-10-00 and he is all set.

Recently we had a customer submit a used unit and his old one, only to both be bad.
In the interest in saving money, he only wanted a transfer because he was IMMO 3 and was a conversion car.
We did it as requested and didn't do a test of his unit just the data transfer to save him money.

I will say this person was pretty competent, however lacked the everyday experience to only confuse himself with compounded issues.

He spent months on this trouble shooting in spare time.

In the end he bought a reman unit from us and finally sorted it out.
I hope he chimes in and tells the story.

That car is now for sale on ebay by him: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=120990307841

[Peter Badore]

Correct Peter he can, but many used ecu's for VR6 are already bad for this problem.

In VCDS for IMMO 2 0x17-10-00 and he is all set.

Recently we had a customer submit a used unit and his old one, only to both be bad.
In the interest in saving money, he only wanted a transfer because he was IMMO 3 and was a conversion car.
We did it as requested and didn't do a test of his unit just the data transfer to save him money.

I will say this person was pretty competent, however lacked the everyday experience to only confuse himself with compounded issues.

He spent months on this trouble shooting in spare time.

In the end he bought a reman unit from us and finally sorted it out.
I hope he chimes in and tells the story.

That car is now for sale on ebay by him: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=120990307841

What were the failures that caused both VR6 ECUs to be bad? There are several 2.8l VR6 MK3 and MK4 cars in my extended family.

[CBRacerX]

Correct Peter he can, but many used ecu's for VR6 are already bad for this problem.

In VCDS for IMMO 2 0x17-10-00 and he is all set.

Recently we had a customer submit a used unit and his old one, only to both be bad.
In the interest in saving money, he only wanted a transfer because he was IMMO 3 and was a conversion car.
We did it as requested and didn't do a test of his unit just the data transfer to save him money.

I will say this person was pretty competent, however lacked the everyday experience to only confuse himself with compounded issues.

He spent months on this trouble shooting in spare time.

In the end he bought a reman unit from us and finally sorted it out.
I hope he chimes in and tells the story.

That car is now for sale on ebay by him: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=120990307841

That's me. Most of my time spent was convincing Jack that the ECU was actually bad, he finally came around

Once I plugged in the remanufactured ECU my issues were resolved. It might be the same for you. Good luck!

[CBRacerX]

What were the failures that caused both VR6 ECUs to be bad? There are several 2.8l VR6 MK3 and MK4 cars in my extended family.

I wish I knew. One ECU was bought on ebay and had no guarantee - that was a big waste of $$$. The other ECU was in the car since new, and only showed me problems after being reprogrammed. I would have been better off selling the ECU from the car on ebay (with no guarantee since that seems to be popular!) and getting a remanufactured unit programmed for manual transmission. The theft immobilizer on these cars (MK IV) is really a major &^*&$%&$% when it comes to swapping or reprogramming the ECU. Sux.

[Jack@European Parts]

Most of the time the OXS heater circuits are the cause.

or

A wire harness hitting exhaust.

MK3 is ME5.9 and usually no issues since it uses a separate relay to run the heaters.

In CBracerX's case he was convinced the ECU was good to begin with before sending in, but logs showed both computers had errors from the day he sent the units in before programming.
Thank goodness for backups of eeproms to verfiy and see.
The problem during diagnosis was compounded since it was a conversion, for things like cruise control inputs, which weren't needed, before the programming had to be changed, and why it functioned.
IE cruise clutch switch etc. When the car is an auto it doesn't need the input, but after the conversion, it is. Plus there are logins for cruise on and off.
When the wrong application ECU is not seen, or others missing for say trans missing.
It will shut off other tests before those DTC's are corrected.
I suspect the OXS sensors may have been damaged when the trans conversion was done in the tunnel for the shifter cables.

Just the mere breathing on the OXS sensors at the age of these cars now is enough.
There was inadequate strain relief in my opinion from the OEM.
I add metal tape to stabilize, it helps as an additional heat shield and noise blocker.

The one thing I can say here is we re-lived everything before condeming a ecu.

[dremhmrk2]

Im going to order new o2 sensors tomorrow, but what do I do about the wiring harness that goes all the way up to near the coolant bottle? Is this a hard-part of the full wiring harness or can I disconnect it and replace it?

[Jack@European Parts]

A good visual can be done, checked with a meter and wiggle test.

An over lay can be performed and fused.

A complete harness can be changed.

All should be checked. Most of the time the damaged area is obvious if its harness related vs OXS sensor itself.

[Peter Badore]

A good visual can be done, checked with a meter and wiggle test.

An over lay can be performed and fused.

A complete harness can be changed.

All should be checked. Most of the time the damaged area is obvious if its harness related vs OXS sensor itself.

Jack, based on your comments am I correct to assume that an internal failure in either oxygen sensor can damage the 2.8l VR6 MK4 ECU? Does this potential/problem exist for both the AFP and BDF code MK4 VR6 engines?

[Jack@European Parts]

Hey Pete

Sir yes sir!

[runvdub]

My codes were for the TPS. No broken o2 wires. I replaced my throttle body so looking to get vagcom for a throttle body alignment. If its not my issue may be my ecu. I hope not. Because I have NO THROTTLE at all. Engine cuts off after a few seconds I'm guessing due to lack of air into the engine.

[Anony00GT]

Where did you come from? Auto-scan please, so we know what we're dealing with.

[runvdub]

Don't have detailed scan of the codes bc it was just a cheap scanner. But they were P2128/P2133 due to the EPC light and also the CEL for P0038/P0300.

I replaced the throttle body but have yet to get it aligned with vagcom.

[Anony00GT]

Don't have detailed scan of the codes bc it was just a cheap scanner. But they were P2128/P2133 due to the EPC light and also the CEL for P0038/P0300.

I replaced the throttle body but have yet to get it aligned with vagcom.

Need VCDS to play in this forum dude.

[Jack@European Parts]

Yeah,... this sandbox is reserved!
Tell him Brian.

He can always go here and get his papers stamped.

http://store.ross-tech.com/shop/cat/VCDS.html

[runvdub]

I'll be back fellas. I'll be back hoping to get mine in a few days bc I'm tired of not being able to fix things myself! 👍

[runvdub]

got my vagcom finally and did a TBA but still no throttle heres what was read on the faults
Im freakin lost


VCDS Version: Release 11.11.4
Data version: 20120807

Thursday,11,October,2012,19:59:19:05301

Chassis Type: 1J - VW Golf/Bora IV
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 16 17 19 22 29 35 36 37 39 46 47 55 56 57 75
76

VIN: 9BWDE61J424020055 Mileage: 418250km/259888miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 06A-906-032-AWW.lbl
Part No: 06A 906 032 DL
Component: 1.8L R4/5VT G 0006
Coding: 07500
Shop #: WSC 14390
VCID: 6BDE291B19914540E47

5 Faults Found:
18039 - Accelerator Position Sensor (G79)
P1631 - 35-00 - Signal too High
18042 - Accelerator Position Sensor 2 (G185)
P1634 - 35-00 - Signal too High
17513 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Heating; B1 S2; Heating Circuit
P1105 - 35-10 - Short to Plus - Intermittent
17953 - Throttle Valve Controller
P1545 - 35-10 - Malfunction - Intermittent
17953 - Throttle Valve Controller
P1545 - 35-10 - Malfunction - Intermittent
Readiness: 0100 1100

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 1C0-907-37x-ASR.lbl
Part No: 1C0 907 379 D
Component: ASR FRONT MK60 0103
Coding: 0021505
Shop #: WSC 00000 785 00200
VCID: 2B5EE91B89118540A47

4 Faults Found:
00285 - ABS Wheel Speed Sensor; Front Right (G45)
008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
00283 - ABS Wheel Speed Sensor; Front Left (G47)
012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit - Intermittent
00285 - ABS Wheel Speed Sensor; Front Right (G45)
012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit - Intermittent
01314 - Engine Control Module
013 - Check DTC Memory - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 6Q0-909-605-VW5.lbl
Part No: 6Q0 909 605 F
Component: 08 AIRBAG VW6 0202 0004
Coding: 12344
Shop #: WSC 00000
VCID: 3A70DC5F264B2CC82F1

5 Faults Found:
00592 - Seat Belt Switch; Passenger (E25)
32-10 - Resistance too High - Intermittent
00591 - Seat Belt Switch; Driver (E24)
32-10 - Resistance too High - Intermittent
00532 - Supply Voltage B+
07-10 - Signal too Low - Intermittent
01217 - Side Airbag Igniter; Driver Side (N199)
32-10 - Resistance too High - Intermittent
01218 - Side Airbag Igniter; Passenger Side (N200)
32-10 - Resistance too High - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 1J0-920-xx5-17.lbl
Part No: 1J0 920 906 J
Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRSP VDO V65
Coding: 07232
Shop #: WSC 09128
VCID: 2F66FD0BED09F96088F
9BWDE61J424020055 VWZ7Z0A3994656

4 Faults Found:
01176 - Key
65-10 - Unauthorized - Intermittent
01177 - Engine Control Unit
64-10 - Not Currently Testable - Intermittent
01314 - Engine Control Module
49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent
01304 - Radio
49-00 - No Communications

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
Part No: 6N0 909 901
Component: Gateway K<->CAN 0001
Coding: 00006
Shop #: WSC 09128
VCID: F0E4BE77B0B72698515

2 Faults Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module
49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent
01304 - Radio
49-00 - No Communications

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels:
Part No: 1C0 959 799 C
VCID: 3776C56B155931A0D0F


End ---------------------------------------------------------------------

[Jack@European Parts]

OXS sensors and a new control unit maybe.