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    Thread: Ford is screwing me

    1. Member Rugrat Anklebiter's Avatar
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      09-18-2012 02:35 PM #1
      In the beginning of November 2010 our 2004 Mercury Monterey's torque
      converter failed leaving my wife and three children stranded. We had
      the vehicle towed to the local dealership and repaired for $1,759.26 plus $105.55 tax
      and towing of $48.00.

      We contacted the NHTSA and filed a complaint against Ford for a
      defective torque converter. The vehicle only had 60k miles. We received notice from the NHTSA that a recall had been introduced. I contacted Mr. Nameless at the dealership and was told that
      the replacement part was part of the faulty lot. The new the parts would be available in the 2nd quarter of 2012.

      A couple of months ago I followed up with Mr. Nameless at the dealership in the
      service department. He informed me that I could only receive a refund
      after my defective torque converter was replaced. This did not make
      sense to me, so I contacted Ford Motor Company. They informed me the
      torque converter that was replaced satisfied the recall and to contact
      the dealership to have a refund submitted.

      I contacted the Mr. Nameless again. He said he did not believe the part that was
      replaced was a good unit and sent in a request to pull the part numbers
      from the archives. A couple of days later Mr. Nameless called back and told me
      the part was indeed the defective part and would have to be replaced
      before we could submit for a refund.

      Today, we have received our vehicle back from the dealership with the
      correct torque converter installed. We ran into resistance from a customer service agent
      in the service department to apply for our refund. She told us the
      recall notice states the torque converter can be replaced or a refund
      can be issued, but not both.

      I have contacted Ford about this situation. I spoke with a customer service agent in the
      Customer Relationship Dept. She told me they do not know why Mr. Nameless would
      require a replacement of in their opinion a valid torque converter and
      not allow us to submit for a refund. That we should contact the dealership about this.

      I have a call in to the Ford Customer Relationship Center's supervisor
      to contact me in regards to the CSA's version of the situation.

      At this point someone within the company is in error. Whether it is at the
      dealership or within the Ford Motor Co., isn't my fault. I have done everything
      I was told to do in order to 1) make sure the part in my car was correct and
      2) to receive the refund I was promised. It isn't fair that I should have to pay
      $1,759.26 to replace a defective part, when everyone else gets theirs replaced
      at no cost. Nor is it fair, that I should have to bare the financial burden due to
      the error of one of their employees.

      I see the loop hole they are trying to get me to swallow, but I'm not drinking. I've got an email in to the General Manager at the dealership and I'm waiting for a call back from Ford's Supervisor. I have also threatened them with my attorney and possibly contacting our Attorney General.

      What more can I do?

      - Enraged Rat!

    2. Member clutchrider's Avatar
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      09-18-2012 02:42 PM #2
      IB4dealershipVSmanufacturer

      Just another reason why it sucks that dealerships are separate entities. I would have no issue going to their site, clicking on a part ordering it. Or even building my car online, clicking to order/finance and calling it a day.

      You could probably go to 3 different Ford dealers and get 3 different answers as well on this. But then because each dealership is different they will not honor or work on a Ford that was worked on at another Ford dealership

      It's an endless cycle and for the most part consumers are dumb when it comes to realizing that a dealer has no ties to the manufacturer other than paying for rights to the brand name, logos, adverts, etc. I'm sure it's more than that but it's what I think.

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      09-18-2012 02:43 PM #3
      I think you got the bad guy. This is about you vs Mr. Nameless, not you vs Ford Motor Co.

      Obtain the words from the Ford Corporate in writing, and go back to Mr Nameless to discuss the remedies required to end this entire ordeal. If not, then maybe you can pursue the matters in civil court. Because we are dealing with less than $2000 in damages, a lawyer may be too expensive and you might not even breakeven with the lost $ and the emotional pain/suffering.

      Good luck. I hate sleazy service departments.

    4. Member atomicalex's Avatar
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      09-18-2012 02:46 PM #4
      Mr Nameless wanted to get reimbursed by you and Ford for the same repair.

      Call your local news station and raise hell. This is purely a dealer sleaze problem. Ford has rules in place, and the dealer tried to weasel them. The dealer is trying to get paid twice for the same repair and is counting on you blaming FoMoCo for the problem.
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    5. Member barry2952's Avatar
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      09-18-2012 03:06 PM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by atomicalex View Post
      Mr Nameless wanted to get reimbursed by you and Ford for the same repair.

      Call your local news station and raise hell. This is purely a dealer sleaze problem. Ford has rules in place, and the dealer tried to weasel them. The dealer is trying to get paid twice for the same repair and is counting on you blaming FoMoCo for the problem.
      I will forward this to someone who can do something.
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    6. Senior Member AZGolf's Avatar
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      09-18-2012 03:10 PM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by atomicalex View Post
      Mr Nameless wanted to get reimbursed by you and Ford for the same repair.

      Call your local news station and raise hell. This is purely a dealer sleaze problem. Ford has rules in place, and the dealer tried to weasel them. The dealer is trying to get paid twice for the same repair and is counting on you blaming FoMoCo for the problem.
      Yeah that sounds like fraud. I would contact the attorney general, as they tend to love going after companies for consumer fraud in an election year.

    7. 09-18-2012 03:12 PM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by atomicalex View Post
      Mr Nameless wanted to get reimbursed by you and Ford for the same repair.

      Call your local news station and raise hell. This is purely a dealer sleaze problem. Ford has rules in place, and the dealer tried to weasel them. The dealer is trying to get paid twice for the same repair and is counting on you blaming FoMoCo for the problem.
      ...Is it really? The way I read it, the original TC was replaced when it failed and OP paid for it, either prior to the recall or without knowing there was a recall.

      TC#2 was ALSO in the batch of recalled parts as determined by Mr. Nameless. The dealer replaced it with TC#3, for free.

      OP is pursuing refund for TC#1's replacement which he paid out of pocket.

      Right? So really, the recall got done twice because bad parts were used the first time. By all means, OP deserves his refund. But I'm not sure the dealer is actively trying to screw him. It sounds more like they have an odd situation where someone's car basically needed the recall performed twice. And the (incompetent) service dept sees it as 'recall was performed, why would we give him money too?'

    8. Member Spell Check Desk's Avatar
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      09-18-2012 03:15 PM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by 484 View Post
      ...Is it really? The way I read it, the original TC was replaced when it failed and OP paid for it, either prior to the recall or without knowing there was a recall.

      TC#2 was ALSO in the batch of recalled parts as determined by Mr. Nameless. The dealer replaced it with TC#3, for free.

      OP is pursuing refund for TC#1's replacement which he paid out of pocket.

      Right? So really, the recall got done twice because bad parts were used the first time. By all means, OP deserves his refund. But I'm not sure the dealer is actively trying to screw him. It sounds more like they have an odd situation where someone's car basically needed the recall performed twice. And the (incompetent) service dept sees it as 'recall was performed, why would we give him money too?'
      The dealer should have known there was a recall on the failed torque converter in the first place. The VIN should have told Mr. Nameless that.
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      09-18-2012 03:54 PM #9
      This dealer just doesn't know what they are doing. All they have to do is verifying your replacement part and repair are correct then submit the refund and give you your refund. As long as Ford corp (not dealer) approved your refund, the dealer just needs to do paperwork.

      It happened to me when my m3 cat converter failed at 88K miles (warranty only at 80K miles); I had to pay out of pocket. Then 2 years later, I received a recall said control software was failure causing cat converter to be failed prematurely. I called BMWNA and told them I want a refund. They told me bring my car and receipts to a local bmw dealer to have them checked to make sure the cat converter and installation were correctly replaced. Then, they issued me a check for part and labor even though I had it replaced at local muffler shop with OEM part.

      Good luck!

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      09-18-2012 04:08 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by Spell Check Desk View Post
      The dealer should have known there was a recall on the failed torque converter in the first place. The VIN should have told Mr. Nameless that.
      Nope. According to AllData, that recall wasn't issued until March 2012. Back in 2010, when the original problem occurred, there was no recall, and the vehicle was technically out of warranty. Also, given the dates, it makes sense that the replacement converter was also of the defective nature. The dealership would not have been able to do anything for him at the time of the original problem, as Ford hadn't issued any recall at that time. The car was out of warranty, making it a cash repair. A new part was installed, but again, since no recall issued, the defective part was replaced with another potentially defective part, probably completely unbeknownst to the dealership.

      Currently, Mr. Nameless should recognize the situation and get the customer his refund. This should be an easy process, not the BS that the OP is going through. There is a section in the owner's letter of the recall that says owners that have paid for this repair will be notified about refund eligibility in the 2nd quarter of 2012. It looks like the OP never got that, and is getting the runaround. I'd definitely report it to your local attorney general at least.
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    11. Member Rugrat Anklebiter's Avatar
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      09-20-2012 08:25 PM #11
      Update:

      Ford's Customer Service Supervisor contacted me this evening. He said he is creating a dispute against the Dealership and the Dealership will have to decide how it wants to handle the situation. It is out of Ford's hands.

      The supervisor said the Dealership should not have replaced the torque converter twice since the torque converter they originally replaced was within NTHSA specs and guidelines.

      So, I am currently waiting for the Dealership to contact me.

    12. Member 200HP4dr's Avatar
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      09-20-2012 08:34 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by barry2952 View Post
      I will forward this to someone who can do something.
      Thanks for looking out for us!

      Chris
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    13. Member Thrasher's Avatar
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      09-20-2012 08:41 PM #13
      Nevermind.
      [Signature removed due to abuse.]

    14. Member youlostme21's Avatar
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      09-20-2012 08:53 PM #14
      The torque Converters were updated somewhere around 06 I believe so any replacement part after that would be the newer (not defective part#)
      **** sucks. I've worked at a few dealers and have been put in a situation before where I almost got fired for standing up for the customer when the service advisor was clearly trying to screw the guy out of getting something covered under warrenty that should have been covered.
      Thankfully I left that dealer shortly after and am much happier.
      Anywhere you go, whether its a dealer or not, there are good people and there are bad. Find a place that you trust and treat them right, and they will return that.
      Best of luck getting your refund.
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      09-20-2012 08:59 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by Anony00GT View Post
      Nope. According to AllData, that recall wasn't issued until March 2012. Back in 2010, when the original problem occurred, there was no recall, and the vehicle was technically out of warranty. Also, given the dates, it makes sense that the replacement converter was also of the defective nature. The dealership would not have been able to do anything for him at the time of the original problem, as Ford hadn't issued any recall at that time. The car was out of warranty, making it a cash repair. A new part was installed, but again, since no recall issued, the defective part was replaced with another potentially defective part, probably completely unbeknownst to the dealership.
      Date spreads like this (2004-2012 recall) make you wonder how mnay "defective" torque converters were replaced and paid for by customers, and what Ford's procedure for handing any of these situations is.
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    16. 09-20-2012 09:58 PM #16
      I don't blame you for your raw hatred of ford by now....

      However,

      More flies with honey than vinegar - and you come off pretty pissy and confrontational.


      Start being exceptionally nice to everyone and see if it helps.


      If I was tired of working a ****ty job at a dealership and someone came in bitching I'd probably take you for a ride too....

    17. Member GTE77's Avatar
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      09-20-2012 10:24 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by x1000rpms View Post
      I don't blame you for your raw hatred of ford by now....

      However,

      More flies with honey than vinegar - and you come off pretty pissy and confrontational.


      Start being exceptionally nice to everyone and see if it helps.


      If I was tired of working a ****ty job at a dealership and someone came in bitching I'd probably take you for a ride too....
      So people HAVE TO BE NICE to be able to make use of their RIGHTS?

    18. Member Rugrat Anklebiter's Avatar
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      09-20-2012 10:30 PM #18
      I just filled out a survey the Dealership sent to me. Hopefully, between the email to the General Manager, the dispute through Ford and this survey someone somewhere will hear the squeaky wheel and offer some grease.

      Otherwise, I plan on taking some advice and contacting our Attorney General and if that doesn't work, filing a civil suit.

      Hmm, I wonder if contacting the NHTSA again would help?

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      09-20-2012 10:34 PM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by GTE77 View Post
      So people HAVE TO BE NICE to be able to make use of their RIGHTS?

      I know the dealer has been dicking the OP around but they're more likely to toss you out on your ass and laugh about it if you're behaving like a raging cuunt.
      Sent from a cup & a string using a Sharpie

    20. 09-20-2012 10:40 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by GTE77 View Post
      So people HAVE TO BE NICE to be able to make use of their RIGHTS?
      I don't think that's what I said.. I said that OP might be surprised how much further he gets with people if he isn't an angry overly confrontational customer.

      If you want to talk about rights... and spend money getting lawyers involved thats one way to go... but I find it is cheaper to smile and wear some good clothes and shake people's hands and ask nicely and explain your situation in a calm manner that makes people want to help you - instead of being confrontational and making people want to pawn you off on someone else. Which is what is happening with OP.

      He is being run in circles. This is partly because the dealership and manufacturer don't have the correct procedures in place to put responsibility on one party or the other - but it's also because neither entity wants to deal with him.

      From his tone in his writing - I am not surprised he is not getting good results.

      OP - I am guessing you go through life and everything is huge amounts of drama and nothing has ever come easy? You're the victim more often than not? "Ford is screwing me" is your way of looking at this - instead of - "Ford's customer service is confusing and unfriendly."

      Try smiling once in a while and acting like a friend to be helped instead of a foe to be afraid of. The way people respond to you determines how successful you are in life. The way people respond to you is a matter of what you are asking for and, sometimes more importantly, how you are asking for it.

      You get back what you project. Golden rule.. treat others as you would be treated. karma.. yadda yadda yadda.
      Last edited by x1000rpms; 09-20-2012 at 10:49 PM.

    21. Member GTE77's Avatar
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      09-21-2012 12:33 AM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by x1000rpms View Post
      I don't think that's what I said.. I said that OP might be surprised how much further he gets with people if he isn't an angry overly confrontational customer.

      If you want to talk about rights... and spend money getting lawyers involved thats one way to go... but I find it is cheaper to smile and wear some good clothes and shake people's hands and ask nicely and explain your situation in a calm manner that makes people want to help you - instead of being confrontational and making people want to pawn you off on someone else. Which is what is happening with OP.

      He is being run in circles. This is partly because the dealership and manufacturer don't have the correct procedures in place to put responsibility on one party or the other - but it's also because neither entity wants to deal with him.

      From his tone in his writing - I am not surprised he is not getting good results.

      OP - I am guessing you go through life and everything is huge amounts of drama and nothing has ever come easy? You're the victim more often than not? "Ford is screwing me" is your way of looking at this - instead of - "Ford's customer service is confusing and unfriendly."

      Try smiling once in a while and acting like a friend to be helped instead of a foe to be afraid of. The way people respond to you determines how successful you are in life. The way people respond to you is a matter of what you are asking for and, sometimes more importantly, how you are asking for it.

      You get back what you project. Golden rule.. treat others as you would be treated. karma.. yadda yadda yadda.
      I agree, I at most times make a it a rule to be over polite with customer services.

      However, I dont think you have ever been pushed over the limit with a painfull, slow, stupid, lying customer service department.

    22. Senior Member dunhamjr's Avatar
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      09-21-2012 01:20 AM #22
      want to see the end result.

      good luck.
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    23. 09-21-2012 01:32 AM #23
      SSB.

      Agree that the divide between dealers and manufactures is an issue. The higher up checks and balances, quality control, plus honesty, can't always trickle down.

      Updated torque converter or not, autotragic is tragic.
      Last edited by emkaytree; 09-21-2012 at 01:39 AM.
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      09-21-2012 01:57 AM #24
      all those 3.0 trans have the torque converter issue.. they either slip bad or stay locked up at idle and stall from 2000-2006, put a SHO 5spd in that ****! lol

      or a mazda v6 trans badass minivan id say!

    25. 09-21-2012 11:10 AM #25
      In Florida, for a small fee, you can sue in small claims court for $5,000 or less, excluding costs, interest, and attorneys' fees.

      http://www.flcourts.org/gen_public/f...llclaims.shtml

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      09-21-2012 11:15 AM #26
      Call Ford corporate CS, talk to a supervisor/manager, and get it dealt with. Kiss ass. Be polite/nice. I know you're mad but seriously, put that aside for now.

    27. Member Rugrat Anklebiter's Avatar
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      09-28-2012 05:07 AM #27
      The thread shows my rage. But I do not talk to people face to face like that. I've been very pleasant to all parties involved and so far it hasn't gotten me anywhere. I will follow up with Ford and request a written statement that the torque converter should not have been replaced. I will then meet with the Dealership's Service Manager and see what he can do. If nothing, I'm filing against the Dealership in Small Claims Court.

    28. Member KeiCar's Avatar
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      09-28-2012 05:52 AM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by clutchrider View Post
      IB4dealershipVSmanufacturer

      Just another reason why it sucks that dealerships are separate entities. I would have no issue going to their site, clicking on a part ordering it. Or even building my car online, clicking to order/finance and calling it a day.

      You could probably go to 3 different Ford dealers and get 3 different answers as well on this. But then because each dealership is different they will not honor or work on a Ford that was worked on at another Ford dealership

      It's an endless cycle and for the most part consumers are dumb when it comes to realizing that a dealer has no ties to the manufacturer other than paying for rights to the brand name, logos, adverts, etc. I'm sure it's more than that but it's what I think.
      I agree totally and just wonder if your example given is not done just like that in other countries. Most places in Europe and Asia are so far ahead of us...


      I know from the manufacturers standpoint its one less headache they want to deal with, we spoke about this before in TCL. I remember talk about this, that the car buying (and now-a-days mostly financing / leasing) is quite involved and most people still want to face to talk to when buying and servicing. But I'm like you, I do my homework online and when it comes to buying anything: washing machines, handmade shoes, blow-jobs, I know exactally what I want and how much I want to spend on it.
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    29. Member Rugrat Anklebiter's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 01:30 AM #29
      I spoke to Ford again. This time I got a different Supervisor and she told me that they will not send me a written statement that the dealership should not have replaced the torque converter. In fact, she went on to say that the other supervisor should never have told me that information.

      Currently I have filed a complaint with our Attorney General. I'll give that a week to see if anything happens. I will then file a civil suit against both parties and let a judge decide.

      I'll keep in touch. Thanks for the ideas.

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      10-05-2012 03:56 AM #30
      You bought a Ford... joke's on you, buddy.
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      Quote Originally Posted by patrickvr6 View Post
      ...cretinx tried to touch on this point above but if you check his post history it is fairly easy to tell that he is an imbecile. I have doubts that he can drive a nail, much less a car.

    31. Member Dandbest's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 08:06 AM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by BHCfarkas View Post
      You bought a Ford... joke's on you, buddy.
      funny coming from a guy who owns a VW

    32. Member GTI2Slow's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 09:26 AM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by Rugrat Anklebiter View Post
      In the beginning of November 2010 our 2004 Mercury Monterey's torque
      converter failed leaving my wife and three children stranded.
      You know what grinds my gears, when someone starts a rant and pulls this emotional appeal bulls**t right from the get go. Your car broke down, the people in it were inconvenienced.

    33. 10-05-2012 09:42 AM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by BHCfarkas View Post
      You bought a Ford... joke's on you, buddy.
      this
      i have a ford e350 that's been ok but the dealer is sleazy as is corporate

    34. Member YEAHTOM's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 09:48 AM #34
      I have personally seen this happen countless time and it usually stems from greedy service advisors/departments. They looked at your VIN and noticed that you still had an open recall. If the job paid well enough they pounced to get the money for the warranty claim. It never should of been replaced twice and the service manager dropped the ball and screwed you and that is why ford tapped out and put it on the dealer to make it right. The dealer should of noticed the part they replaced was the correct torque converter the first time and reimbursed you immediately and submitted a claim with ford now the dealer has been paid twice to do the same job.

      Good luck! Personally I know the more ****/hell you raise at my dealership the faster you are going to get your way.

    35. Senior Member .LSinLV.'s Avatar
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      10-05-2012 10:05 AM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by VDub2625 View Post
      Date spreads like this (2004-2012 recall) make you wonder how mnay "defective" torque converters were replaced and paid for by customers, and what Ford's procedure for handing any of these situations is.
      when VWoA had the MAF fiasco in the MKIV's....the repairs, and REFUNDS were retroactive.

      I was reimbursed for two bad MAF's that were installed/bought nearly two years PRIOR to the recall.

      if VWoA can do this, then Ford most certainly can.
      Larry

      Demokratikally Elekted Minister of Shekels of the Independent People's Republik of Offtopikstan

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