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    Thread: My First Drive of 2013 Cadillac ATS

    1. Member NoXenons's Avatar
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      09-25-2012 11:36 PM #76
      Quote Originally Posted by Nourdmrolnmt View Post
      just because BMW is the only vehicle in a class, doesn't mean they are 'class competitive'


      I'll name Cadillac's
      CTS
      XTS
      SRX
      Escalade
      ATS

      There's 5 model lines and Cadillac has a total of 5 models...

      BMW has 10 model lines, 5 of which are exactly what Cadillac has (3, 5, 7ish, X3, X5)

      The only vehicles Cadillac currently can't compete with at BMW that I would declare need extreme cash investment are the X1/1 series and a true 7 series.

      Everything else is a rebody of what GM already has platforms for.
      XTS doesn't compete with anything BMW has.. even the current SRX is FWD based

    2. Member 2.0T_Convert's Avatar
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      09-25-2012 11:42 PM #77
      Quote Originally Posted by NoXenons View Post
      I agree. Their selection pales in comparison to the German brands. Right now they have four model-lines that are class-competitive.. BMW has ten. Last year there was a nice concept that reminded me of a 60's Continental, but I guess they decided not to go through with it.
      Last I checked BMW was getting ass raped by Audi in every segment.

      XTS doesn't compete with anything BMW has.. even the current SRX is FWD based
      Dafuq does being FWD based true or not have to do with anything.
      Last edited by 2.0T_Convert; 09-25-2012 at 11:44 PM.
      Sent from my tablet while sipping weak drinks over fancy brunch with a view

    3. 09-25-2012 11:43 PM #78
      Quote Originally Posted by NoXenons View Post
      XTS doesn't compete with anything BMW has.. even the current SRX is FWD based
      no one in the SRX category gives a flying you know what how it's architecture is established, as long as its AWD.

      and 7ish was there for a reason.

      it will hold over for the next 16 months
      Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stack View Post
      Makes me proud to be an American in some perverse way. **** your terrorist, I've a honey boo boo outside.

    4. 09-25-2012 11:44 PM #79
      Quote Originally Posted by 2.0T_Convert View Post
      Last I checked BMW was getting ass raped by Audi in every segment.
      man, let me discuss sales numbers with him once i beat him over the head with the 'nitty gritty' and then when he tries to discuss 'the big picture' i'll show him that too.

      i already shot his 'brand image' to pieces with 3 very sufficient very telling graphs.

      Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stack View Post
      Makes me proud to be an American in some perverse way. **** your terrorist, I've a honey boo boo outside.

    5. Member NoXenons's Avatar
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      09-26-2012 12:05 AM #80
      Quote Originally Posted by Nourdmrolnmt View Post
      man, let me discuss sales numbers with him once i beat him over the head with the 'nitty gritty' and then when he tries to discuss 'the big picture' i'll show him that too.

      i already shot his 'brand image' to pieces with 3 very sufficient very telling graphs.

      You do realize the graph based on brand appeal proves my point?

    6. Member 2.0T_Convert's Avatar
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      09-26-2012 12:11 AM #81
      Quote Originally Posted by NoXenons View Post
      You do realize the graph based on brand appeal proves my point?
      Proves that Cadillac sits right below Lexus and the Germans in brand appeal. In other words above all the quasi-luxury brands like Volvo, Acura, and Lincoln. And then all the regular brands like Hyundai, Honda, etc...

      So remind me again why Cadillac should be competing by being a budget luxury brand?
      Sent from my tablet while sipping weak drinks over fancy brunch with a view

    7. 09-26-2012 12:13 AM #82
      Quote Originally Posted by NoXenons View Post
      You do realize the graph based on brand appeal proves my point?
      That 3.6% separates Cadillac and BMW?

      I knew you would use that, and never realize that 3.6% is the difference.

      The only brands not within 5% of Cadillac that is above it is Porsche and Jaguar, and they currently do not have dreams to overtake Porsche nor Jaguar.

      let's not mention the HUGE difference in the VDS and the larger difference in IQS
      Last edited by Nourdmrolnmt; 09-26-2012 at 12:15 AM.
      Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stack View Post
      Makes me proud to be an American in some perverse way. **** your terrorist, I've a honey boo boo outside.

    8. Member NoXenons's Avatar
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      09-26-2012 12:23 AM #83
      Quote Originally Posted by 2.0T_Convert View Post
      Proves that Cadillac sits right below Lexus and the Germans in brand appeal. In other words above all the quasi-luxury brands like Volvo, Acura, and Lincoln. And then all the regular brands like Hyundai, Honda, etc...

      So remind me again why Cadillac should be competing by being a budget luxury brand?
      Lexus is also less expensive than BMW.


      Quote Originally Posted by Nourdmrolnmt View Post
      That 3.6% separates Cadillac and BMW?

      I knew you would use that, and never realize that 3.6% is the difference.

    9. Banned baljet's Avatar
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      09-26-2012 12:25 AM #84
      Quote Originally Posted by NoXenons View Post
      I agree. Their selection pales in comparison to the German brands. Right now they have four model-lines that are class-competitive.. BMW has ten. Last year there was a nice concept that reminded me of a 60's Continental, but I guess they decided not to go through with it.
      But when they get those products they have the brand strength to charge parity with BMW.

    10. 09-26-2012 07:42 AM #85
      Quote Originally Posted by NoXenons View Post
      BMW owners have usually tested all 3 and say they wanted a car that was involving and a real drivers car.
      Bowtie wearing, tattooed, Mini driver

      Quote Originally Posted by JalopnikMatt View Post
      Yeah, I've bypassed y'all and go straight to r/cars.

    11. 09-26-2012 11:51 AM #86
      Quote Originally Posted by NoXenons View Post
      Audi Merc and Cadillac drivers in my opinion cannot really say this and must wish they too owned a BMW every time they see one.
      what a moron

    12. Member curvedinfinity's Avatar
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      09-26-2012 12:28 PM #87
      That dude, what a high horse he has.


      We'll see how the ATS competes with the 3 series. I'm liking it. I'll be watching the ATS-V news like a hawk.

    13. Member gti5dr06's Avatar
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      09-26-2012 07:53 PM #88
      Quote Originally Posted by curvedinfinity View Post
      That dude, what a high horse he has.


      We'll see how the ATS competes with the 3 series. I'm liking it. I'll be watching the ATS-V news like a hawk.
      NoXenons = 2006330cickid?
      Quote Originally Posted by konigwheels View Post
      Wow, it amazes me that we have children in here that can't read a couple paragraphs. No wonder America's doing so well in education! Can't take the time to read, but sure can find the time to post. Self indulgence at it's finest.

      TL;DR should be banned and changed to ID;CR or I'm dumb, can't read.

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      09-27-2012 07:35 AM #89
      Quote Originally Posted by NoXenons View Post
      XTS doesn't compete with anything BMW has.. even the current SRX is FWD based
      If you are viewing "FWD-based" as a disqualifier for true luxury status, I guess you are dismissing most of Audi's line-up? Audi certainly is a luxury brand, IMO, yet most of their vehicles can be had in FWD only (FrontTrak). Even BMW and Mercedes have or will soon have FWD vehicles in their line-ups? Does this disqualify them as luxury brands? Porsche's upcoming Macan will be based on the Audi Q5, which means both will be FWD-based...just like the Caddy SRX. Land Rover, Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, and Volvo all also have very nice and capable vehicles that are FWD or FWD-based.

      As for the XTS, early sales are showing it to be very competitive with the 5-Series, and E-Class (in the USD market). If you consider how the average mid-size/large luxury sedan owner uses his or her vehicle, what makes you think that the XTS does not measure up well to the Germans? I see a lot of wealthy or socially climbing-types going out to dinner, commuting to work, and dropping the kids off at school in the this class of vehicle. Is the XTS somehow deficient in performing these mundane tasks in reasonable luxury and style? The XTS certainly is'nt going to be anyone's weekend trackday toy, but I doubt if the standard E-Class or 5-Series are spending a lot of time on a track.

    15. Member TangoRed's Avatar
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      09-27-2012 07:51 AM #90
      Quote Originally Posted by gti5dr06 View Post
      NoXenons = 2006330cickid?
      Throwback.

      But yes they have a similar demeanor.
      Quote Originally Posted by Doug Butabi View Post
      And on the tenth day of the two thousand fifteenth year, TCL finds out about rich people.

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      09-27-2012 07:52 AM #91
      Quote Originally Posted by NoXenons View Post
      Any of these cars would be great to own at the end of the day its just down to personal choice.

      Normally when I ask an Audi owner why they chose their car they point to the so called tacky Fairy Lights at the front of the car.

      When I ask an Mercedes owner they say the finance deal was so much cheaper.

      BMW owners have usually tested all 3 and say they wanted a car that was involving and a real drivers car.

      As an owner of many cars I feel I have the best brand of car you can get and when I see an Audi or Merc know I have the best car.

      Audi Merc and Cadillac drivers in my opinion cannot really say this and must wish they too owned a BMW every time they see one.
      Odd behaviour. I never ask anyone why they bought their car. Two reasons: It's their money and I don't care.

    17. Member curvedinfinity's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 11:13 AM #92
      I was able to drive an ATS 2.5 yesterday -- wow! I really liked the 2.5. It did not seem like a hold-over model. The motor spins up quickly, and seems unstressed. It actually suits the ATS well because the car feels so light and agile. It's not fast, but its plenty for highway and traffic. It reminded me a lot of an E46 330i. The automatic was very good, and the manual mode was quick and precise. I'm not picky about interiors, so I had nothing to complain about. The seats were good and the touch interface didn't bother me. The car was very well put together.

      After driving the 2.5, it might just be the car I'd pick out of the ATS lineup. It seemed like a great package for a commute -- good MPG, quick, agile, and very high quality. The 2.0T would be considerably quicker, but I didn't feel like I was missing any power in the 2.5. -- This coming after just having stepped out of my CTS-V.

      Overall very impressed. This is a GREAT sport sedan.

      edit: Just to toss out some comparisons, the ATS seemed lighter and more agile than the 135i as I remember it, which was then more agile feeling than the E90 335i. Compared to an A4 2.0T as I remember it, the 2.5 is not as fast in a straight line (duh), but everything feels more precise and responsive, including the throttle.

      The ATS' cabin reminded me a lot of my Cruze's in dimensions. It's narrow and tall. The back seats are just big enough for adults, also similar to the Cruze's in dimensions.
      Last edited by curvedinfinity; 10-03-2012 at 11:25 AM.

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      10-03-2012 12:20 PM #93
      This might be an odd question, but has anyone cross-shopped this car with the IS250? (ATS 2.5)
      They both appear to have similar power, though the ATS losses 2 cylinder but gains some MPGs.
      $5K seems to be very steep just to get the CUE, rft + 17" alloys and powered seats for the premium package.

    19. Member curvedinfinity's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 12:44 PM #94
      Quote Originally Posted by too_slow View Post
      This might be an odd question, but has anyone cross-shopped this car with the IS250? (ATS 2.5)
      They both appear to have similar power, though the ATS losses 2 cylinder but gains some MPGs.
      $5K seems to be very steep just to get the CUE, rft + 17" alloys and powered seats for the premium package.
      The closest I've gotten to an IS250 is riding shotgun in Byron's IS-F presser, so take this with a grain of salt, but I'd bet you the IS is softer and spongier all around. The interior of the ATS is a big notch up from the IS, which is to be expected since its brand new.

      The ATS feels really light on its feet. Lighter than my Cruze. Lighter than the 911s I've driven. The closest car I've driven to it in recent memory in terms of "lightness" and front-end response is a Cayman S. Not to say the overall dynamics are on par because I didn't drive it hard, but it's worth saying the controls are precise and effortless.

    20. Member BLK9GEN's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 12:45 PM #95
      OT:

      It amazes me how fast dependability/reliability of new cars is improving, especially given their ever-increasing complexity/feature content. Chrysler's rating in 2012 is slightly better than Toyota's rating from 2005, yet most people only see them at the bottom and think "what a piece of crap". Just something to chew on.




      2005 JD Power Dependability Ranking of 2002 automobiles

      Problems per 100 Vehicles
      Lexus 139
      Porsche 149
      Lincoln 151
      Buick 163
      Cadillac 175
      Infiniti 178
      Toyota 194
      Mercury 195
      Honda 201
      Acura 203
      BMW 225
      Ford 231
      Chevrolet 232
      Chrysler 235
      Industry Average 237
      Saturn 240
      Oldsmobile 242
      GMC 245
      Pontiac 245
      Mazda 252
      Hyundai 260
      Subaru 260
      Volvo 266
      Jaguar 268
      Dodge 273
      Nissan 275
      Mitsubishi 278
      Mercedes-Benz 283
      Saab 286
      Jeep 289
      Suzuki 292
      Audi 312
      Daewoo 318
      Isuzu 331
      Volkswagen 335
      MINI 383
      Land Rover 395
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      2016 Hyundai Tucson Limited AWD
      2015 Kia Soul + Special Edition

      Love one another




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      10-03-2012 12:45 PM #96
      Quote Originally Posted by too_slow View Post
      This might be an odd question, but has anyone cross-shopped this car with the IS250? (ATS 2.5)
      They both appear to have similar power, though the ATS losses 2 cylinder but gains some MPGs.
      $5K seems to be very steep just to get the CUE, rft + 17" alloys and powered seats for the premium package.
      The ATS 2.5 that I drove also had leather wrapped everything.

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      10-03-2012 12:50 PM #97
      Thanks whitejeep and curved!
      My mom is looking to replace her 10 year old Legacy GT wagon. We're hoping to get her a small premium car. I think she would prefer the softer ride on the Lexus, but I don't think the ATS is widely available in Canada yet (it's not even on the Canadian website) so I have absolutely nothing to base it on.

      I just happen to remember that the IS is extremely cramped inside. I'm led to believe that a MK4 Jetta is more roomy on the inside.

      It would be cool if they can offer magnetic ride + HIDs as standalone options on the base 2.5. 3.6V6 is a little overkill for her. LOL

    23. Member Mike!'s Avatar
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      10-03-2012 12:52 PM #98
      I'm surprised by all these glowing reviews on the 2.5. I didn't expect a 200hp na 4-banger to be so impressive.

      As for the IS250, the IS line as a whole is due for replacement next year. It was a small, cramped car when it came out (2006 as a 2007 model, IIRC), with bad ergonomics for tall people like me. I know the ATS isn't a particularly roomy car either, but if the E90 was the benchmark, it should be roomier than the IS at least.

      Per Edmunds:

      ATS
      EPA interior volume: 101.1 cu.f
      Width: 71.1 in.
      Height: 55.9 in.
      Length: 182.8 in.
      Front track: 59.5 in.
      Rear track: 60.9 in.
      Wheel base: 109.3 in.
      Cargo capacity, all seats in place: 10.2 cu.ft.
      Maximum cargo capacity: 10.2 cu.ft.

      Front head room: 38.6 in.
      Front hip room: 53.0 in.
      Front leg room: 42.5 in.
      Front shoulder room: 55.2 in.

      Rear hip Room: 52.3 in.
      Rear head room: 36.8 in.
      Rear leg room: 33.5 in.
      Rear shoulder room: 53.9 in.

      IS
      EPA interior volume: 98.7 cu.ft.
      Width: 70.9 in.
      Height: 55.7 in.
      Length: 180.3 in.
      Ground clearance: 5.7 in.
      Front track: 60.4 in.
      Rear track: 60.4 in.
      Wheel base: 107.5 in.
      Cargo capacity, all seats in place: 13.0 cu.ft.
      Maximum cargo capacity: 13.0 cu.ft.

      Front head room: 37.2 in.
      Front hip room: 54.1 in.
      Front leg room: 43.9 in.
      Front shoulder room: 54.4 in.

      Rear hip Room: 53.7 in.
      Rear head room: 36.7 in.
      Rear leg room: 30.6 in.
      Rear shoulder room: 52.7 in.

      The measurements are somewhat ambiguous as to whether the ATS has a room advantage. Can anyone 6' or taller who's sat in an ATS chime in?

    24. Member curvedinfinity's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 12:56 PM #99
      Quote Originally Posted by too_slow View Post
      Thanks whitejeep and curved!
      My mom is looking to replace her 10 year old Legacy GT wagon. We're hoping to get her a small premium car. I think she would prefer the softer ride on the Lexus, but I don't think the ATS is widely available in Canada yet (it's not even on the Canadian website) so I have absolutely nothing to base it on.

      I just happen to remember that the IS is extremely cramped inside. I'm led to believe that a MK4 Jetta is more roomy on the inside.

      It would be cool if they can offer magnetic ride + HIDs as standalone options on the base 2.5. 3.6V6 is a little overkill for her. LOL
      Going completely off memory, my guess is there is about 1" more width, 2" more headroom, and 1" more rear knee room in the ATS than the IS. I agree the IS was cramped. The rear seats of the ATS were doable for me (6'4"), though my knees were touching the seats. No problem with head room. The IS's rear had my knees bending outwards, and my back hunched to fit.

    25. Member curvedinfinity's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 01:17 PM #100
      Looking at the configurator, who am I kidding, the 2.0T is just a bit more money with the MT.

      The 2.5 was just fine though IMO. Kind of makes me wonder what if the 2.5 came in at a lower price point.

      Perhaps the next Camaro will be poverty-spec enough to replace my Cruze. The ATS 2.5 with a Cruze's level of features -- a modern day Nova -- I'd totally be all over that.

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