My First Drive of 2013 Cadillac ATS

[Minority5]

Exactly. Cadillac is not even in the picture.

Keep repeating it, and it might come true.

[Minority5]

Encore is the best-looking vehicle in the segment. If they gave it to us with a manual transmission I'd replace my DD with it. So I guess at least ONE person likes it.

I think there will be quite a few people who will like the Encore.

[baljet]

Exactly. Cadillac is not even in the picture.

Any of these cars would be great to own at the end of the day its just down to personal choice.

Normally when I ask an Audi owner why they chose their car they point to the so called tacky Fairy Lights at the front of the car.

When I ask an Mercedes owner they say the finance deal was so much cheaper.

BMW owners have usually tested all 3 and say they wanted a car that was involving and a real drivers car.

As an owner of many cars I feel I have the best brand of car you can get and when I see an Audi or Merc know I have the best car.

Audi Merc and Cadillac drivers in my opinion cannot really say this and must wish they too owned a BMW every time they see one.

Cadillac has a very strong brand in the US, but the product is what has held it back. Cadillac needs a proper flagship.

[NoXenons]

Cadillac has a very strong brand in the US, but the product is what has held it back. Cadillac needs a proper flagship.

I agree. Their selection pales in comparison to the German brands. Right now they have four model-lines that are class-competitive.. BMW has ten. Last year there was a nice concept that reminded me of a 60's Continental, but I guess they decided not to go through with it.

[Nourdmrolnmt]

I agree. Their selection pales in comparison to the German brands. Right now they have four model-lines that are class-competitive.. BMW has ten. Last year there was a nice concept that reminded me of a 60's Continental, but I guess they decided not to go through with it.

just because BMW is the only vehicle in a class, doesn't mean they are 'class competitive'


I'll name Cadillac's
CTS
XTS
SRX
Escalade
ATS

There's 5 model lines and Cadillac has a total of 5 models...

BMW has 10 model lines, 5 of which are exactly what Cadillac has (3, 5, 7ish, X3, X5)

The only vehicles Cadillac currently can't compete with at BMW that I would declare need extreme cash investment are the X1/1 series and a true 7 series.

Everything else is a rebody of what GM already has platforms for.

and the Cadillac Omega flagship is coming, and it will cost $120-$180k and have a LOT of styling cues from the Ciel (the vehicle you referenced which was a pure prototype a year ago, you need to learn time frames). There is a good source who dropped that information.

[NoXenons]

just because BMW is the only vehicle in a class, doesn't mean they are 'class competitive'


I'll name Cadillac's
CTS
XTS
SRX
Escalade
ATS

There's 5 model lines and Cadillac has a total of 5 models...

BMW has 10 model lines, 5 of which are exactly what Cadillac has (3, 5, 7ish, X3, X5)

The only vehicles Cadillac currently can't compete with at BMW that I would declare need extreme cash investment are the X1/1 series and a true 7 series.

Everything else is a rebody of what GM already has platforms for.

XTS doesn't compete with anything BMW has.. even the current SRX is FWD based

[2.0T_Convert]

I agree. Their selection pales in comparison to the German brands. Right now they have four model-lines that are class-competitive.. BMW has ten. Last year there was a nice concept that reminded me of a 60's Continental, but I guess they decided not to go through with it.

Last I checked BMW was getting ass raped by Audi in every segment.

XTS doesn't compete with anything BMW has.. even the current SRX is FWD based

Dafuq does being FWD based true or not have to do with anything.

[Nourdmrolnmt]

XTS doesn't compete with anything BMW has.. even the current SRX is FWD based

no one in the SRX category gives a flying you know what how it's architecture is established, as long as its AWD.

and 7ish was there for a reason.

it will hold over for the next 16 months

[Nourdmrolnmt]

Last I checked BMW was getting ass raped by Audi in every segment.

man, let me discuss sales numbers with him once i beat him over the head with the 'nitty gritty' and then when he tries to discuss 'the big picture' i'll show him that too.

i already shot his 'brand image' to pieces with 3 very sufficient very telling graphs.

[NoXenons]

man, let me discuss sales numbers with him once i beat him over the head with the 'nitty gritty' and then when he tries to discuss 'the big picture' i'll show him that too.

i already shot his 'brand image' to pieces with 3 very sufficient very telling graphs.

You do realize the graph based on brand appeal proves my point?

[2.0T_Convert]

You do realize the graph based on brand appeal proves my point?

Proves that Cadillac sits right below Lexus and the Germans in brand appeal. In other words above all the quasi-luxury brands like Volvo, Acura, and Lincoln. And then all the regular brands like Hyundai, Honda, etc...

So remind me again why Cadillac should be competing by being a budget luxury brand?

[Nourdmrolnmt]

You do realize the graph based on brand appeal proves my point?

That 3.6% separates Cadillac and BMW?

I knew you would use that, and never realize that 3.6% is the difference.

The only brands not within 5% of Cadillac that is above it is Porsche and Jaguar, and they currently do not have dreams to overtake Porsche nor Jaguar.

let's not mention the HUGE difference in the VDS and the larger difference in IQS

[NoXenons]

Proves that Cadillac sits right below Lexus and the Germans in brand appeal. In other words above all the quasi-luxury brands like Volvo, Acura, and Lincoln. And then all the regular brands like Hyundai, Honda, etc...

So remind me again why Cadillac should be competing by being a budget luxury brand?

Lexus is also less expensive than BMW.

That 3.6% separates Cadillac and BMW?

I knew you would use that, and never realize that 3.6% is the difference.

[baljet]

I agree. Their selection pales in comparison to the German brands. Right now they have four model-lines that are class-competitive.. BMW has ten. Last year there was a nice concept that reminded me of a 60's Continental, but I guess they decided not to go through with it.

But when they get those products they have the brand strength to charge parity with BMW.

[cougar]

BMW owners have usually tested all 3 and say they wanted a car that was involving and a real drivers car.

[mookieblaylock]

Audi Merc and Cadillac drivers in my opinion cannot really say this and must wish they too owned a BMW every time they see one.

what a moron

[curvedinfinity]

That dude, what a high horse he has.


We'll see how the ATS competes with the 3 series. I'm liking it. I'll be watching the ATS-V news like a hawk.

[gti5dr06]

That dude, what a high horse he has.


We'll see how the ATS competes with the 3 series. I'm liking it. I'll be watching the ATS-V news like a hawk.

NoXenons = 2006330cickid?

[whitejeep1989]

XTS doesn't compete with anything BMW has.. even the current SRX is FWD based

If you are viewing "FWD-based" as a disqualifier for true luxury status, I guess you are dismissing most of Audi's line-up? Audi certainly is a luxury brand, IMO, yet most of their vehicles can be had in FWD only (FrontTrak). Even BMW and Mercedes have or will soon have FWD vehicles in their line-ups? Does this disqualify them as luxury brands? Porsche's upcoming Macan will be based on the Audi Q5, which means both will be FWD-based...just like the Caddy SRX. Land Rover, Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, and Volvo all also have very nice and capable vehicles that are FWD or FWD-based.

As for the XTS, early sales are showing it to be very competitive with the 5-Series, and E-Class (in the USD market). If you consider how the average mid-size/large luxury sedan owner uses his or her vehicle, what makes you think that the XTS does not measure up well to the Germans? I see a lot of wealthy or socially climbing-types going out to dinner, commuting to work, and dropping the kids off at school in the this class of vehicle. Is the XTS somehow deficient in performing these mundane tasks in reasonable luxury and style? The XTS certainly is'nt going to be anyone's weekend trackday toy, but I doubt if the standard E-Class or 5-Series are spending a lot of time on a track.

[TangoRed]

NoXenons = 2006330cickid?

Throwback.

But yes they have a similar demeanor.

[CBJ]

Any of these cars would be great to own at the end of the day its just down to personal choice.

Normally when I ask an Audi owner why they chose their car they point to the so called tacky Fairy Lights at the front of the car.

When I ask an Mercedes owner they say the finance deal was so much cheaper.

BMW owners have usually tested all 3 and say they wanted a car that was involving and a real drivers car.

As an owner of many cars I feel I have the best brand of car you can get and when I see an Audi or Merc know I have the best car.

Audi Merc and Cadillac drivers in my opinion cannot really say this and must wish they too owned a BMW every time they see one.

Odd behaviour. I never ask anyone why they bought their car. Two reasons: It's their money and I don't care.

[curvedinfinity]

I was able to drive an ATS 2.5 yesterday -- wow! I really liked the 2.5. It did not seem like a hold-over model. The motor spins up quickly, and seems unstressed. It actually suits the ATS well because the car feels so light and agile. It's not fast, but its plenty for highway and traffic. It reminded me a lot of an E46 330i. The automatic was very good, and the manual mode was quick and precise. I'm not picky about interiors, so I had nothing to complain about. The seats were good and the touch interface didn't bother me. The car was very well put together.

After driving the 2.5, it might just be the car I'd pick out of the ATS lineup. It seemed like a great package for a commute -- good MPG, quick, agile, and very high quality. The 2.0T would be considerably quicker, but I didn't feel like I was missing any power in the 2.5. -- This coming after just having stepped out of my CTS-V.

Overall very impressed. This is a GREAT sport sedan.

edit: Just to toss out some comparisons, the ATS seemed lighter and more agile than the 135i as I remember it, which was then more agile feeling than the E90 335i. Compared to an A4 2.0T as I remember it, the 2.5 is not as fast in a straight line (duh), but everything feels more precise and responsive, including the throttle.

The ATS' cabin reminded me a lot of my Cruze's in dimensions. It's narrow and tall. The back seats are just big enough for adults, also similar to the Cruze's in dimensions.

[too_slow]

This might be an odd question, but has anyone cross-shopped this car with the IS250? (ATS 2.5)
They both appear to have similar power, though the ATS losses 2 cylinder but gains some MPGs.
$5K seems to be very steep just to get the CUE, rft + 17" alloys and powered seats for the premium package.

[curvedinfinity]

This might be an odd question, but has anyone cross-shopped this car with the IS250? (ATS 2.5)
They both appear to have similar power, though the ATS losses 2 cylinder but gains some MPGs.
$5K seems to be very steep just to get the CUE, rft + 17" alloys and powered seats for the premium package.

The closest I've gotten to an IS250 is riding shotgun in Byron's IS-F presser, so take this with a grain of salt, but I'd bet you the IS is softer and spongier all around. The interior of the ATS is a big notch up from the IS, which is to be expected since its brand new.

The ATS feels really light on its feet. Lighter than my Cruze. Lighter than the 911s I've driven. The closest car I've driven to it in recent memory in terms of "lightness" and front-end response is a Cayman S. Not to say the overall dynamics are on par because I didn't drive it hard, but it's worth saying the controls are precise and effortless.

[BLK9GEN]

OT:

It amazes me how fast dependability/reliability of new cars is improving, especially given their ever-increasing complexity/feature content. Chrysler's rating in 2012 is slightly better than Toyota's rating from 2005, yet most people only see them at the bottom and think "what a piece of crap". Just something to chew on.




2005 JD Power Dependability Ranking of 2002 automobiles

Problems per 100 Vehicles
Lexus 139
Porsche 149
Lincoln 151
Buick 163
Cadillac 175
Infiniti 178
Toyota 194
Mercury 195
Honda 201
Acura 203
BMW 225
Ford 231
Chevrolet 232
Chrysler 235
Industry Average 237
Saturn 240
Oldsmobile 242
GMC 245
Pontiac 245
Mazda 252
Hyundai 260
Subaru 260
Volvo 266
Jaguar 268
Dodge 273
Nissan 275
Mitsubishi 278
Mercedes-Benz 283
Saab 286
Jeep 289
Suzuki 292
Audi 312
Daewoo 318
Isuzu 331
Volkswagen 335
MINI 383
Land Rover 395
Kia 397

[whitejeep1989]

This might be an odd question, but has anyone cross-shopped this car with the IS250? (ATS 2.5)
They both appear to have similar power, though the ATS losses 2 cylinder but gains some MPGs.
$5K seems to be very steep just to get the CUE, rft + 17" alloys and powered seats for the premium package.

The ATS 2.5 that I drove also had leather wrapped everything.

[too_slow]

Thanks whitejeep and curved!
My mom is looking to replace her 10 year old Legacy GT wagon. We're hoping to get her a small premium car. I think she would prefer the softer ride on the Lexus, but I don't think the ATS is widely available in Canada yet (it's not even on the Canadian website) so I have absolutely nothing to base it on.

I just happen to remember that the IS is extremely cramped inside. I'm led to believe that a MK4 Jetta is more roomy on the inside.

It would be cool if they can offer magnetic ride + HIDs as standalone options on the base 2.5. 3.6V6 is a little overkill for her. LOL

[Mike!]

I'm surprised by all these glowing reviews on the 2.5. I didn't expect a 200hp na 4-banger to be so impressive.

As for the IS250, the IS line as a whole is due for replacement next year. It was a small, cramped car when it came out (2006 as a 2007 model, IIRC), with bad ergonomics for tall people like me. I know the ATS isn't a particularly roomy car either, but if the E90 was the benchmark, it should be roomier than the IS at least.

Per Edmunds:

ATS
EPA interior volume: 101.1 cu.f
Width: 71.1 in.
Height: 55.9 in.
Length: 182.8 in.
Front track: 59.5 in.
Rear track: 60.9 in.
Wheel base: 109.3 in.
Cargo capacity, all seats in place: 10.2 cu.ft.
Maximum cargo capacity: 10.2 cu.ft.

Front head room: 38.6 in.
Front hip room: 53.0 in.
Front leg room: 42.5 in.
Front shoulder room: 55.2 in.

Rear hip Room: 52.3 in.
Rear head room: 36.8 in.
Rear leg room: 33.5 in.
Rear shoulder room: 53.9 in.

IS
EPA interior volume: 98.7 cu.ft.
Width: 70.9 in.
Height: 55.7 in.
Length: 180.3 in.
Ground clearance: 5.7 in.
Front track: 60.4 in.
Rear track: 60.4 in.
Wheel base: 107.5 in.
Cargo capacity, all seats in place: 13.0 cu.ft.
Maximum cargo capacity: 13.0 cu.ft.

Front head room: 37.2 in.
Front hip room: 54.1 in.
Front leg room: 43.9 in.
Front shoulder room: 54.4 in.

Rear hip Room: 53.7 in.
Rear head room: 36.7 in.
Rear leg room: 30.6 in.
Rear shoulder room: 52.7 in.

The measurements are somewhat ambiguous as to whether the ATS has a room advantage. Can anyone 6' or taller who's sat in an ATS chime in?

[curvedinfinity]

Thanks whitejeep and curved!
My mom is looking to replace her 10 year old Legacy GT wagon. We're hoping to get her a small premium car. I think she would prefer the softer ride on the Lexus, but I don't think the ATS is widely available in Canada yet (it's not even on the Canadian website) so I have absolutely nothing to base it on.

I just happen to remember that the IS is extremely cramped inside. I'm led to believe that a MK4 Jetta is more roomy on the inside.

It would be cool if they can offer magnetic ride + HIDs as standalone options on the base 2.5. 3.6V6 is a little overkill for her. LOL

Going completely off memory, my guess is there is about 1" more width, 2" more headroom, and 1" more rear knee room in the ATS than the IS. I agree the IS was cramped. The rear seats of the ATS were doable for me (6'4"), though my knees were touching the seats. No problem with head room. The IS's rear had my knees bending outwards, and my back hunched to fit.

[curvedinfinity]

Looking at the configurator, who am I kidding, the 2.0T is just a bit more money with the MT.

The 2.5 was just fine though IMO. Kind of makes me wonder what if the 2.5 came in at a lower price point.

Perhaps the next Camaro will be poverty-spec enough to replace my Cruze. The ATS 2.5 with a Cruze's level of features -- a modern day Nova -- I'd totally be all over that.

[uncleho]

The measurements are somewhat ambiguous as to whether the ATS has a room advantage. Can anyone 6' or taller who's sat in an ATS chime in?

No offense, but a COMPACT car should be... well... compact. And that first gen Lexus IS was PERFECT size for me.

Today's compact is well beyond what compacts were a decade ago so IMHO... I don't want ANY of them to grow any more. Obviously one's opinion of comfort/fitment in a cabin is subjective to a degree and while it might seem tight to you... it is more than adequate for my 5'7" 142lb frame. And there's more than enough in the rear for my girls.

I highly doubt a 6' footer would have issues in the front since they even make cars like the Spark have plenty of room these days for you folks on the other side of the spectrum. But the reality has always been that if you want more space... you buy the next size up. Otherwise... there would be no such thing as vehicle size classes.

Today's 7 Series and S Class and A8 are so damn HUGE, because they are being pushed from the bottom end. When a car like that starts pushing over 2 tons... you have to wonder what is going on.

[uncleho]

The ATS 2.5 that I drove also had leather wrapped everything.

The platform folks were asking us if we could wrap the transmission in leather and we were...

[Lujess]

BMW owners have usually tested all 3 and say they wanted a car that was involving and a real drivers car.

From what I see on the road, most BMW drivers bought their car based on status, cachet, etc. and wouldn't know what to do with a real drivers car if it came up and bit them in the a$$...

Regarding the Buick - don't like the look and especially don't like the size. When did something big enough to eclipse the sun become mid-size?

[too_slow]

People lease poverty spec 3 series and Mini Coopers here because they are cheaper to lease than a Civic / Accord V6. Not to mention, the 3 year scheduled maintenance (they should just call it 3 free oil changes during the 3 year lease term..) is included with a new lease. Most people do not know that their 323i is RWD either (Saintor, did you know that?)

[Mike!]

No offense, but a COMPACT car should be... well... compact. And that first gen Lexus IS was PERFECT size for me.

Today's compact is well beyond what compacts were a decade ago so IMHO... I don't want ANY of them to grow any more. Obviously one's opinion of comfort/fitment in a cabin is subjective to a degree and while it might seem tight to you... it is more than adequate for my 5'7" 142lb frame. And there's more than enough in the rear for my girls.

I highly doubt a 6' footer would have issues in the front since they even make cars like the Spark have plenty of room these days for you folks on the other side of the spectrum. But the reality has always been that if you want more space... you buy the next size up. Otherwise... there would be no such thing as vehicle size classes.

Today's 7 Series and S Class and A8 are so damn HUGE, because they are being pushed from the bottom end. When a car like that starts pushing over 2 tons... you have to wonder what is going on.

There's a difference between size and packaging. I'm 6'0, 32" inseam. A 144" long MINI has excellent room for me and no issues getting in or out. A 176" long IS300 had reasonable room for me up front, and no issues getting in or out. A 180" long IS250 has poor room for me up front, and I have to contort my legs in strange ways to get in or out. I actually managed to hurt my knee getting out of the first one I sat in at the NAIAS in 2007, and I really wanted to like that car.

I don't want the next size class up. I want interior ergonomics that are designed to accommodate me. The current IS just doesn't work for me and many tall people.