Lowering my ride

[eazyEM]

Hello there!!!
I'm looking to lower my JSW(TDI if it matters to anyone?), and i'm clueless to what's good out there. I'd appreciate any good advice. Thanx.

[Aonarch]

Koni coil-overs are what I have and I love them.

[TDInh]

Koni coil-overs are what I have and I love them.

me too....

[O'doyle]

I ordered the ST coil overs and am really happy with them. This is the 13th car of mine I've lowered and these are amongst the hassle free setups.

X...

[ToeBall]

I'm on Koni's as well. They're going away though. I've got a set of AirRex struts and bags coming though so the coilovers are coming off. The reason for this is that my JSW is sort of an all-purpose vehicle. It's my daily driver, it tows, hauls, and does unimproved roads and the coilovers just can't keep up. Not to mention the spring rates are way to soft for the JSW's weight.

[LoganB]

I am also on Konis. I did a lot of research before purchasing, and it seems that if you want a good quality height and damper adjustable kit, most go with Koni. There are, of course, other good options out there. I considered air also, but I know several people with air setups and they're too much maintenance for my taste for daily use.

Also... don't even second guess this:
http://www.rokkor.com/coilovers/volk...-spreader.html
at $14 you will kick yourself for not doing it. I tried it once without this tool, and struggled until I gave up. I tried it with the tool, and still can't believe how easy it was.

feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions

[ToeBall]

Also... don't even second guess this:
http://www.rokkor.com/coilovers/volk...-spreader.html
at $14 you will kick yourself for not doing it. I tried it once without this tool, and struggled until I gave up. I tried it with the tool, and still can't believe how easy it was.

Really? I've done a couple of swaps and still don't own the tool. Just curious if it really makes that much of a difference. All I did was push a wedge into the split in the knuckle and pry it a bit. Doesn't even feel like it moved but the strut came right out.

[Aonarch]

Really? I've done a couple of swaps and still don't own the tool. Just curious if it really makes that much of a difference. All I did was push a wedge into the split in the knuckle and pry it a bit. Doesn't even feel like it moved but the strut came right out.

It is 100% worth it.

Makes installs a breeze.

I got mine from Metalnerd though, not Rokkor.

[ToeBall]

It is 100% worth it.

Makes installs a breeze.

I got mine from Metalnerd though, not Rokkor.

Sweet. I may borrow one when I go to do the R next month...

[O'doyle]

+1 on the tool. I bought it for the JSW, but wound up using it when I re-did the suspension on my 335i last week.

X...

[LoganB]

Really? I've done a couple of swaps and still don't own the tool. Just curious if it really makes that much of a difference. All I did was push a wedge into the split in the knuckle and pry it a bit. Doesn't even feel like it moved but the strut came right out.

For me, yes it did make that big of a difference. I didn't have an appropriate tool to use to try to wedge the knuckle open, so I tried the stomp the crap out of your rotor method without luck. I refuse to remove the axle unless I need to because I have heard of several people who had issues trying to get the axle back in and even after it was replaced. After I got the tool, its a simple twist to get it situated, and a light tap on the top of the rotor and the whole assembly fell away. Worth $14 in my book? Hell yes.

[ToeBall]

For me, yes it did make that big of a difference. I didn't have an appropriate tool to use to try to wedge the knuckle open, so I tried the stomp the crap out of your rotor method without luck. I refuse to remove the axle unless I need to because I have heard of several people who had issues trying to get the axle back in and even after it was replaced. After I got the tool, its a simple twist to get it situated, and a light tap on the top of the rotor and the whole assembly fell away. Worth $14 in my book? Hell yes.

Well, for my R the axle has to come out because I'm replacing the knuckle and lower control arm with aluminum ones. Nice thing is that I'll be able to preassemble most of it and then put it on the car. No spring compressor needed or anything.

[LoganB]

Well, for my R the axle has to come out because I'm replacing the knuckle and lower control arm with aluminum ones. Nice thing is that I'll be able to preassemble most of it and then put it on the car. No spring compressor needed or anything.

Not surprisingly, your situation is unique because of what you are opting to do . Which control arm / knuckle are you using? I am considering replacing mine also to improve the geometry. I didn't need to use a spring compressor for mine either, just lower the jack slowly haha. Good luck!

Also to OP- a lot of JSW guys complain about the saggy rear after lowering. I did a lot of reading/reseraching to try to find a common trend, and it seems pretty consistent that people who buy golf or A3 coilovers have this problem, and people who buy mk5 jetta sedan coilovers don't I purchased the mk5 coilovers and am very happy.

[ToeBall]

Not surprisingly, your situation is unique because of what you are opting to do . Which control arm / knuckle are you using? I am considering replacing mine also to improve the geometry. I didn't need to use a spring compressor for mine either, just lower the jack slowly haha. Good luck!

Also to OP- a lot of JSW guys complain about the saggy rear after lowering. I did a lot of reading/reseraching to try to find a common trend, and it seems pretty consistent that people who buy golf or A3 coilovers have this problem, and people who buy mk5 jetta sedan coilovers don't I purchased the mk5 coilovers and am very happy.

B6 Passat knuckles and control arms. TT rear bearing housing with H2Sport bearing kit for front and rear. Also using Vorshalg Racing camber plates and Eibach Multi-Pro R2 coilovers. The stock tie rod ends won't work with the Passat knuckles, but TyrolSport has a solution. It already came with aluminum rear knuckles. Overall though, it should wind up terrifyingly good in turns. Between suspension and tires I'm cutting over 100 lbs of unsprung mass. I've got everything ordered and on the way so hopefully in about a month, I'll get to do the suspension.

[LoganB]

B6 Passat knuckles and control arms. TT rear bearing housing with H2Sport bearing kit for front and rear. Also using Vorshalg Racing camber plates and Eibach Multi-Pro R2 coilovers. The stock tie rod ends won't work with the Passat knuckles, but TyrolSport has a solution. It already came with aluminum rear knuckles. Overall though, it should wind up terrifyingly good in turns. Between suspension and tires I'm cutting over 100 lbs of unsprung mass. I've got everything ordered and on the way so hopefully in about a month, I'll get to do the suspension.

That is awesome. So you said you are doing this for your R? Will these parts also work on the JSW? Also, will it help correct suspension geometry for a lowered car? If you don't mind my asking, how much will all that run? Thanks!

[kroberts]

Dont buy Vogtlands. Mine are really noisy. So noisy that I've taken the front end apart twice hoping that I made a mistake or something broke. Just really noisy.

[macscac]

bilsteins....

[ToeBall]

That is awesome. So you said you are doing this for your R? Will these parts also work on the JSW? Also, will it help correct suspension geometry for a lowered car? If you don't mind my asking, how much will all that run? Thanks!

Well, the knuckles and control arms are used. They would work on a JSW. Most of the rest of the stuff came from the Internet so I got it all pretty cheap, except for the coilovers, which are cheap for what they are, but not cheap for coilovers. The TT rear bushing housing improves turn in at the cost of anti-lift, but with the AWD on the R, anti-lift is not a major concern. On the JSW, it would fit but the anti-lift is there for a reason. If all you're looking to do is correct for bump-steer, Whiteline has a kit for that, which is just a pair of tire rod ends. My R is not going that low so I'm not worried about bump steer.

Here's a photo with the coilovers in it from a while ago. As it turns out, the Ground Control camber-plates could not be made to work with the Eibachs and I had to go to Vorshlag for a custom solution.


_MG_1948 by Toe_Ball, on Flickr

My JSW is on Koni coilovers. I like the actual shocks, but you really need to run different rate springs as the ones that come in the kit are intended to ride nice under a Rabbit, so are way to soft for the JSW. This is how my JSW sat with the suspension almost all the way up.


IMG_0289 by Toe_Ball, on Flickr

[LoganB]

Well, the knuckles and control arms are used. They would work on a JSW. Most of the rest of the stuff came from the Internet so I got it all pretty cheap, except for the coilovers, which are cheap for what they are, but not cheap for coilovers. The TT rear bushing housing improves turn in at the cost of anti-lift, but with the AWD on the R, anti-lift is not a major concern. On the JSW, it would fit but the anti-lift is there for a reason. If all you're looking to do is correct for bump-steer, Whiteline has a kit for that, which is just a pair of tire rod ends. My R is not going that low so I'm not worried about bump steer.

Here's a photo with the coilovers in it from a while ago. As it turns out, the Ground Control camber-plates could not be made to work with the Eibachs and I had to go to Vorshlag for a custom solution.

My JSW is on Koni coilovers. I like the actual shocks, but you really need to run different rate springs as the ones that come in the kit are intended to ride nice under a Rabbit, so are way to soft for the JSW. This is how my JSW sat with the suspension almost all the way up.

I think I could probably get a hold of some used control arms and knuckles... nothing wrong with those used. I already have coilovers, so that isn't a concern for me. The rear bushing housing additional anti-lift, or reduces it? If it adds anti-lift, it would probably be to my detriment while its FWD (wanna go AWD at some point). Maybe I will hold off on those until I get an AWD conversion. My car is not that low either... so I don't really have a problem with bump steer, I would ideally just like to have as close to stock geometry while lowered.

It doesn't look like you have a whole lot of camber... what is the point of the camber plates?

That looks nice the way it sits. Wheel fitment looks good too. I bought the Koni coilovers for a mk5 jetta sedan, and don't have any issue with the springs. They are definitely different from yours because I am close to the same height but still have a good bit of room to go up.

By the way - where did you get the tail pipe? Looks nice.

Thanks for all the helpful tips!

[ToeBall]

I think I could probably get a hold of some used control arms and knuckles... nothing wrong with those used. I already have coilovers, so that isn't a concern for me. The rear bushing housing additional anti-lift, or reduces it? If it adds anti-lift, it would probably be to my detriment while its FWD (wanna go AWD at some point). Maybe I will hold off on those until I get an AWD conversion. My car is not that low either... so I don't really have a problem with bump steer, I would ideally just like to have as close to stock geometry while lowered.

The knuckles need a different tie-rod end because the aluminum casting is thicker than the steel one. Talk to TyrolSport. They have a solution for it.

They add about 1/2-3/4 of a degree of caster and anti-lift. They've also got a solid bushing instead of a cutout one, so there's less deflection. Firmer ride though.

It doesn't look like you have a whole lot of camber... what is the point of the camber plates?

I'm not running camber plates on the JSW, and in fact have stock alignment specifications (Well, from the GLI). The camber plates are for the R and the alignment will be more aggressive as the car is a weekend toy/non-daily driver so I'm willing to sacrifice some tire life for improved handling.

That looks nice the way it sits. Wheel fitment looks good too. I bought the Koni coilovers for a mk5 jetta sedan, and don't have any issue with the springs. They are definitely different from yours because I am close to the same height but still have a good bit of room to go up.

I called Koni about purchasing a set of different rate coils and they told me they only have the one spring rate. The good news is that the Koni coilovers accept just standard 2.5" coils, so it's easy to change if needed.

By the way - where did you get the tail pipe? Looks nice.

It's a Gale Banks cat-back. I can't recommend it. Mine rattles sometimes. I'm told that they've redesigned it since, but as I've only had first hand experience with mine, it's all I can tell you.

Thanks for all the helpful tips!

That's kinda the point of the forum.


More parts for the R by Toe_Ball, on Flickr

Oh, forgot to mention, bigger brakes are going on as well.

[vego99]

Hey guys,
Been following this thread and looking for more info.. Trading in my MK6 Golf TDI for a 2013 JSW on friday! From what Ive been reading the spring rates are too soft to use on the JSW and because of this the rear end sags. Is this with ALL coil over setups? Reason being I looked at H&R's website and the coilover set up specific for this car has a different part number for the Golfs and Jettas. Because of this different part number, can anyone confirm that they are using a different spring rate for the rear? Has anyone used H&R's coilover for the JSW? I believe the part number is 54755-2

thanks

-e

[Aonarch]

Hey guys,
Been following this thread and looking for more info.. Trading in my MK6 Golf TDI for a 2013 JSW on friday! From what Ive been reading the spring rates are too soft to use on the JSW and because of this the rear end sags. Is this with ALL coil over setups? Reason being I looked at H&R's website and the coilover set up specific for this car has a different part number for the Golfs and Jettas. Because of this different part number, can anyone confirm that they are using a different spring rate for the rear? Has anyone used H&R's coilover for the JSW? I believe the part number is 54755-2

thanks

-e

Look for MKV Jetta (Only 30 lbs more) or Audi A3.

The JSW is the same dimensions as the MKV Jetta, but with the hatch instead of trunk, that adds like I said about 30 lbs.

[LoganB]

The knuckles need a different tie-rod end because the aluminum casting is thicker than the steel one. Talk to TyrolSport. They have a solution for it.

They add about 1/2-3/4 of a degree of caster and anti-lift. They've also got a solid bushing instead of a cutout one, so there's less deflection. Firmer ride though.



I'm not running camber plates on the JSW, and in fact have stock alignment specifications (Well, from the GLI). The camber plates are for the R and the alignment will be more aggressive as the car is a weekend toy/non-daily driver so I'm willing to sacrifice some tire life for improved handling.



I called Koni about purchasing a set of different rate coils and they told me they only have the one spring rate. The good news is that the Koni coilovers accept just standard 2.5" coils, so it's easy to change if needed.



It's a Gale Banks cat-back. I can't recommend it. Mine rattles sometimes. I'm told that they've redesigned it since, but as I've only had first hand experience with mine, it's all I can tell you.



That's kinda the point of the forum.


Oh, forgot to mention, bigger brakes are going on as well.

Those brakes look nice man. I think that I may push the knuckles and control arms for later purely on a price/weight savings ratio. I see light weight big brakes and light wheels in my future... and of course aluminum knuckles in the more distant future.

However, I'm wondering about those rear bushing housings... I'm still learning about this whole "anti-lift" thing... I come from the mustang world and they don't talk about suspension nearly enough- i'm not sure they even make something to change anti-lift on them. But anyway, if those rear bushing housings INCREASE anti-lift (keeps the nose from lifting so much during acceleration) then it may help being that I am FWD, because it will keep weight over the nose to reduce wheel spin. Do I have that right? Or do these increase lift/dive?

[ToeBall]

Those brakes look nice man. I think that I may push the knuckles and control arms for later purely on a price/weight savings ratio. I see light weight big brakes and light wheels in my future... and of course aluminum knuckles in the more distant future.

However, I'm wondering about those rear bushing housings... I'm still learning about this whole "anti-lift" thing... I come from the mustang world and they don't talk about suspension nearly enough- i'm not sure they even make something to change anti-lift on them. But anyway, if those rear bushing housings INCREASE anti-lift (keeps the nose from lifting so much during acceleration) then it may help being that I am FWD, because it will keep weight over the nose to reduce wheel spin. Do I have that right? Or do these increase lift/dive?

I don't think I spent more than a few hundred bucks on all the aluminum parts. Not cheap, but not really expensive either.



Top is TT, middle is S3, and bottom is Golf/GTI/JSW. The TT bushings need a small amount of modification to fit correctly on the Golf. Just a bit of mill or drill work, we'll see once I do the test fitting.

The bushings are solid and space away from the frame a bit more. They add caster so you get more dynamic turn in. Also, unlike the VW part, the bushings are solid so they will transfer more vibration, but also will provide better feedback and control suspension geometry better. It does increase anti-lift as a result of the extra caster (the accelerating wheels pull the suspension down a bit more). More importantly, it increases dynamic toe, and turn in gets dramatically better as a result. The downside is that brake dive is increased as well. This is why I can get away with the big brakes on the front without a huge upgrade in the rear.

There's a good thread here: http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140113

[rootrider]

This is why I can get away with the big brakes on the front without a huge upgrade in the rear.

that, and the ABS controller does a great job of distributing brake force

[ToeBall]

that, and the ABS controller does a great job of distributing brake force

Yes, and the performance Haldex controller keeps the rear axle engaged under braking, so force from the front brakes is sent to the rear wheels too.