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    Thread: 25K Luxury sedan, what are the options?

    1. Member TangoRed's Avatar
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      09-27-2012 08:15 PM #76
      Quote Originally Posted by Silly_me View Post
      OK, I've been on the search to buy a luxo boat for wifey, and while 'fun to drive' are not on the top of the list 'comfortable' and 'reliable' are.

      To this I have narrowed the field to:

      Mercedes:
      I have a W211 CDI, and would not buy a non-CDI W211, so that does away with 'sporty'ness in the mid-size W211 unless you can swing a V8 non-SBC car.

      Jaguar
      X350 XJ8/R (air springs answered by aftermarket, engine seems stout, not as many electronics to go bust as competitors, cheap due to world ending depreciation)

      S-Type (ford sourced V6 seems decent, Jag V8 even more so. Parking brake seems to be a PTIA. Overall, this is probably the best midsize luxo on the used market).

      BMW

      Just don't. They just aren't reliable. And I'm saying this with a solem face after mentioning a Jag is a good used buy. A pity really.

      Audi

      As for an A6, again, I would only get a non-direct injected engine. Otherwise, can't go wrong....mostly

      In conclusion

      If you want great fuel econ and luxury and and and.... well, buy a Lexus Hybrid. Otherwise, from my research the above mentioned cars are a good bet if you are still willing to pay for a bit extra fuel and maint.

      Good luck, I've been shopping for a while now and have looked at cars from Rhode Island to Nashville and still haven't found a winner
      I'm sorry, I can't take this comment seriously. Looking at the above observation altogether makes me wonder where you get your research. I was just in the market for this trio and they all certainly have their problems.

      The DI V6 in the A6 has much less issues than the non-DI does. The pre-facelift models in particular have too many electrical niggles and expensive maintenance for me to recommend one.

      The E350's motor (gas) is tried and true. However, they can suffer from small failures (pano sunroof, keyless go, command, etc.) that end up being $$$ at the end of the day- especially if you have the 7-speed's temperamental valve body.

      The E60 I6, much like a Jag S-type with the V6, will suffer from leaky valve cover gaskets. Both can come with the 6hp26 transmission, which can suffer from failure of the "mechatronics" unit if has an undetected leak. Nav failures don't happen with the E60 if you get the updated system in the 2010. 528i is relatively bullet proof but slow. 535i's have been sorted out by now and have extended warranties on the turbos, courtesy of BMW. 550i's I know less about.

      For me, based on available features (where the Jag really falls behind), with reliability taking a precedence:

      1. E350/528i (The 528i I found was too good to pass up)
      2. 535i/550i (low-option)
      3. A6/E550
      4. 535i/550i (with dynamic drive all that)
      Quote Originally Posted by Doug Butabi View Post
      And on the tenth day of the two thousand fifteenth year, TCL finds out about rich people.

    2. Senior Member
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      09-27-2012 08:43 PM #77
      Quote Originally Posted by TangoRed View Post
      The DI V6 in the A6 has much less issues than the non-DI does.
      Let me rephrase and say the V8 model. I never considered the six banger.

      Quote Originally Posted by TangoRed View Post
      The E350's motor (gas) is tried and true.
      Eh.... I'm just going on what the other owners on Benzworld complain about. The only issue us CDI owners have is the EGR.

      Quote Originally Posted by TangoRed View Post
      However, they can suffer from small failures (pano sunroof, keyless go, command, etc.) that end up being $$$ at the end of the day- especially if you have the 7-speed's temperamental valve body.
      I have the pano, no issue. I have keyless go, no issue. Have no idea what issue there is with command. The transmission is still a point of research for me, I had thought the 7 speed was sorted, but haven't been convinced.

      Quote Originally Posted by TangoRed View Post
      The E60 I6, much like a Jag S-type with the V6, will suffer from leaky valve cover gaskets. Both can come with the 6hp26 transmission, which can suffer from failure of the "mechatronics" unit if has an undetected leak.
      I've not seen that for the Jag in my research.

      Quote Originally Posted by TangoRed View Post
      528i is relatively bullet proof but slow.
      Personal experience leaves me doubting.


      Quote Originally Posted by TangoRed View Post
      For me, based on available features (where the Jag really falls behind), with reliability taking a precedence:
      We'll have to disagree then, considering that the V6 S-type parts are ford cheap.
      Germans are white people. Look up #84 on the list of things white people like: Gear. Lots of Gear. We even have gear farkles over here. -Atomicalex

      Upon my word I have had as much excitement on a car as in the air, especially since the R.F.C. have had women drivers. -James Byford McCudden

    3. Member gti5dr06's Avatar
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      09-27-2012 09:01 PM #78
      silly did you have a bad experience with the X28i models or the e60 528i specifically?
      Quote Originally Posted by konigwheels View Post
      Wow, it amazes me that we have children in here that can't read a couple paragraphs. No wonder America's doing so well in education! Can't take the time to read, but sure can find the time to post. Self indulgence at it's finest.

      TL;DR should be banned and changed to ID;CR or I'm dumb, can't read.

    4. Member TangoRed's Avatar
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      09-27-2012 09:21 PM #79
      Quote Originally Posted by gti5dr06 View Post
      silly did you have a bad experience with the X28i models or the e60 528i specifically?
      This. I'm legitimately curious. I was all over the forums when researching cars (and still monitor the E60 forum) and haven't seen many issues at all with the N52K.

      Silly, if you'd like to see what I'm talking about in regards to transmission faults, search "Jaguar 6hp26 gearbox fault" in google. Fluid leaks out of a sensor on the tranny. That tendency carried over to the XF; also applies to land rover models and BMWs that use that transmission.
      Quote Originally Posted by Doug Butabi View Post
      And on the tenth day of the two thousand fifteenth year, TCL finds out about rich people.

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      09-27-2012 09:49 PM #80
      Quote Originally Posted by gti5dr06 View Post
      silly did you have a bad experience with the X28i models or the e60 528i specifically?
      I, personally, had issues with the M50 engine, which was the predecessor of the engine in question. Granted that the problems could have been addressed but there are numerous subscription consumer rags and my bias that leans against it. I don't drink the bimmer kool aid so my judgement could be jaded.

      Quote Originally Posted by TangoRed View Post
      search "Jaguar 6hp26 gearbox fault" in google.
      Not trying to be an ass, but is that not the same ZF box used in the E60?
      Germans are white people. Look up #84 on the list of things white people like: Gear. Lots of Gear. We even have gear farkles over here. -Atomicalex

      Upon my word I have had as much excitement on a car as in the air, especially since the R.F.C. have had women drivers. -James Byford McCudden

    6. Member Spray`'s Avatar
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      09-27-2012 09:54 PM #81
      I guess That rules out the 545/550/535

    7. Member TangoRed's Avatar
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      09-27-2012 10:01 PM #82
      Quote Originally Posted by Silly_me View Post
      I, personally, had issues with the M50 engine, which was the predecessor of the engine in question. Granted that the problems could have been addressed but there are numerous subscription consumer rags and my bias that leans against it. I don't drink the bimmer kool aid so my judgement could be jaded.



      Not trying to be an ass, but is that not the same ZF box used in the E60?
      You're not being an ass at all. I mentioned that it was indeed an E60 problem as well in my original post. I was just educating the masses. It's a simple issue to address if caught early.

      I don't drink the BMW kool-aid either. What you've stated has nothing to do with the N52K at all, so that's always good . And yes spray, you have reason to be weary of the 535i/550i. Don't even consider the 545i.
      Quote Originally Posted by Doug Butabi View Post
      And on the tenth day of the two thousand fifteenth year, TCL finds out about rich people.

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      09-27-2012 10:23 PM #83
      Quote Originally Posted by Spray` View Post
      The S430 you mean? It's a good looking car...i wonder how
      Fuel econ is ok for a full sized V8 sedan. As for reliability, airmatic aside, seems to be ok. The major issues are the electronic nannies and checkers. Seems the most problems are phantom electrical issues (the mantra of any modern luxoyacht). I find a hard argument against it or the XJ when looking at D class sedans. They seem to be the top two picks IMO

      Quote Originally Posted by TangoRed View Post
      You're not being an ass at all. I mentioned that it was indeed an E60 problem as well in my original post. I was just educating the masses. It's a simple issue to address if caught early..

      There is an issue with the Merc ZF trans where it will leak over the electronic controls and cause issues as well. Again, like you mention, if caught early no big deal, but still......

      It really is a shame, I was in love with the E60 545 that I test drove just hours before my CDI, it was as if Bangel brainwashed me. FTR I hate the F10 snooooooooore but if the 528 is the exception I'd love to include it in my search (wifey is a hard mind to challenge though, and she never liked the e60 the way I have ).
      Germans are white people. Look up #84 on the list of things white people like: Gear. Lots of Gear. We even have gear farkles over here. -Atomicalex

      Upon my word I have had as much excitement on a car as in the air, especially since the R.F.C. have had women drivers. -James Byford McCudden

    9. Member Spray`'s Avatar
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      09-27-2012 10:35 PM #84

    10. 09-28-2012 12:47 PM #85


      + Stage 1

      =



      If you want a quiet, comfortable car with some balls, get 2010-2012 LGT. I have 2011 and love it. Stage 1 reflash really transforms the car. Due to a different turbo location, stock equal length exhaust manifold, it has less lag than WRX and STI. Flooring it is a cool experience as it is very quiet, yet it covers ground really nicely. I've raced e46 m3 and it was real close. Especially when it comes to torque that is useful in every day driving this car is incredible. It's no C63 AMG of course, but you can still get 26-28 MPG on the hwy.

      If that is not enough you can always go stage 2 and run high 12s all day long.
      Last edited by andreyk; 09-28-2012 at 12:50 PM.

    11. Geriatric Member Aonarch's Avatar
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      09-28-2012 01:11 PM #86
      ^ Holy torque gain!
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    12. Member Spray`'s Avatar
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      09-28-2012 01:27 PM #87
      Is that stock you posted?

      I had a 2006 Spec B and loved every minute of it (Stage 2.5)

      Quote Originally Posted by andreyk View Post


      + Stage 1

      =



      If you want a quiet, comfortable car with some balls, get 2010-2012 LGT. I have 2011 and love it. Stage 1 reflash really transforms the car. Due to a different turbo location, stock equal length exhaust manifold, it has less lag than WRX and STI. Flooring it is a cool experience as it is very quiet, yet it covers ground really nicely. I've raced e46 m3 and it was real close. Especially when it comes to torque that is useful in every day driving this car is incredible. It's no C63 AMG of course, but you can still get 26-28 MPG on the hwy.

      If that is not enough you can always go stage 2 and run high 12s all day long.

    13. Member rynodyno312's Avatar
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      09-28-2012 01:36 PM #88
      Newer S80 w/ either the V8 (discontinued last year I think) or the T6? Spacious, comfortable, AWD, plenty of power, nice interior, and not terribly expensive (maybe it is in Canada).


    14. 09-28-2012 01:50 PM #89
      Quote Originally Posted by Spray` View Post
      Is that stock you posted?

      I had a 2006 Spec B and loved every minute of it (Stage 2.5)
      Red line is stage 1 tune.
      Blue line is stock.

    15. Member stevedeezy's Avatar
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      09-28-2012 03:13 PM #90
      Quote Originally Posted by Spray` View Post
      The S430 you mean? It's a good looking car...i wonder how reliability/fuel is.
      right now, i'm using a 2000 S430 as a daily driver that is about 85% highway for a 40mi commute each day. driving at about 80mph will get me about 22.5mpg which isn't so bad considering it weighs 5000lbs and has 20" wheels. i'm sure the 04+ S430 with the 7 speed transmission will get you closer to the 25mpg mark. in 6yrs of ownership, i've had to replace 2 air struts and the steering rack.

    16. Member Spray`'s Avatar
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      10-01-2012 06:04 PM #91
      Thanks maybe I'll have to take one out.

      This is a stupid hard choice.

      Quote Originally Posted by stevedeezy View Post
      right now, i'm using a 2000 S430 as a daily driver that is about 85% highway for a 40mi commute each day. driving at about 80mph will get me about 22.5mpg which isn't so bad considering it weighs 5000lbs and has 20" wheels. i'm sure the 04+ S430 with the 7 speed transmission will get you closer to the 25mpg mark. in 6yrs of ownership, i've had to replace 2 air struts and the steering rack.

    17. 10-01-2012 06:22 PM #92
      I paid less than $25k for my GS - go test drive one.

    18. Member Spray`'s Avatar
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      10-01-2012 09:11 PM #93
      See my problem is I see this, and I just want the Ls460.

      Quote Originally Posted by DIAF View Post
      I paid less than $25k for my GS - go test drive one.

    19. 10-01-2012 11:00 PM #94
      Quote Originally Posted by Spray` View Post
      See my problem is I see this, and I just want the Ls460.

    20. Member Spray`'s Avatar
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      10-01-2012 11:01 PM #95


      Wow these are growing on me...

      Can anyone chime in with any known issues?

      Quote Originally Posted by Remedy View Post

    21. 10-02-2012 06:05 AM #96
      Quote Originally Posted by rynodyno312 View Post
      I know you are looking for a "Luxury" sedan, but a Pontiac G8 gives you a lot of what a 550i gives you at a lower price point, with lower cost of ownership.
      My demands are:
      20+ Mpg (preferably 25) no
      Has to have at LEAST fold down seats. no
      Very fun to drive somewhat
      prefer a lot of tech no
      has to be good in snow no

      why does this thread remind me of this video:




      if the OP doesn't really care for reliability (not a demand) my suggestion is 2010 Audi A4 quattro, which covers all the original demands, and should be around 25k, at least in the U.S.

    22. Member Sir UNBANNED_GERBIL M.B.'s Avatar
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      10-02-2012 06:35 AM #97
      3.2 A4 avant gets my vote. Very fun to drive and amazing in the snow. I may know of a titanium 6spd that may be up for sale soon

    23. Senior Member
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      10-02-2012 08:11 AM #98
      Quote Originally Posted by Spray` View Post
      Can anyone chime in with any known issues?
      I think your price point is in LS430 territory, a 460 in your price range will have a ton of miles on it.
      Germans are white people. Look up #84 on the list of things white people like: Gear. Lots of Gear. We even have gear farkles over here. -Atomicalex

      Upon my word I have had as much excitement on a car as in the air, especially since the R.F.C. have had women drivers. -James Byford McCudden

    24. Member Spray`'s Avatar
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      10-02-2012 09:14 AM #99
      They're really not that bad priced around here,
      A GS460 is available locally for 24K with only 50k miles.

      I have no idea what the gs and ls differences are.

      Quote Originally Posted by Silly_me View Post
      I think your price point is in LS430 territory, a 460 in your price range will have a ton of miles on it.

    25. Member curvedinfinity's Avatar
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      10-02-2012 09:17 AM #100
      My favorite in this thread is the Saab 9-5. No warranty, but its still just an epsilon ii GM, but with a great drivetrain.

      After that the Regal GS, TL, and G37.

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