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    Thread: Greenbay just got robbed...

    1. Moderator SOAR's Avatar
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      09-25-2012 03:10 PM #51
      Quote Originally Posted by SAPJetta View Post
      The officiating has sucked across the board for entire games without doubt. These guys are a complete joke. Totally unprepared to deal with the pace of the NFL.
      Word is coming out that some of the replacement officials were fired from the Lingerie Football League.

      Also, did anyone else notice that Phil Luckett is the the head of the replacement officials? Yes, the same guy who screwed up a coin toss. The same guy who knocked my Seahawks out of playoff contention in week 17 in 1998 by giving Vinny Testaverde a 4th down TD that wasn't even close.

      Is he trying to make amends?

    2. Senior Member Sporin's Avatar
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      09-25-2012 03:51 PM #52
      Quote Originally Posted by adoniram7 View Post
      Thanks. That helps to counterbalance the usual Peter King suck-up article, and
      similar pieces from other networks.
      With Labor disputes, there is always 2 sides to every story, and rarely does the public see all the gory details.

      I'm sure both sides have given and 'gotten... but the Refs Union has the upperhand now because the scabs have been dreadful and the team owners, tv dollars, fans, players... everyone... is calling for this to end.

    3. Senior Member SAPJetta's Avatar
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      09-25-2012 04:35 PM #53
      Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

    4. Moderator SOAR's Avatar
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      09-25-2012 04:47 PM #54
      Another note: The booth review official who let the call stand, was Howard Slavin, who is not a replacement official, but a full time NFL booth review official.

      This is probably my Seahawk bias talking here... But the more I read about this, the more I think this was less of a bad call, and more of what is maybe a bogus rule. As I've seen multiple explanations that simultaneous catch is ruled when the players feet hit the ground and they both have possession. If the receiver has possession at that point, as well as the defender, then it is ruled simultaneous catch and goes to the receiver.

      Here's a gif...



      Shields certainly gets the ball at first. But as they come down, Tate gets both arms on it, and pulls it into his gut/chest. Even as he rolls back onto his butt, he still has two hands on the ball, and it's clutched to his gut/chest. After they both hit the ground. Jennings certainly gains overall control of the ball, but from what I'm hearing about the rule, it sounds like the play is over at that point.

      I'm not saying this was absolutely the correct call, but I don't think it's as obvious as I originally thought, and as the ESPN and the media make it out to be. In the end, Golden should have certainly been called for PI. But if we wanna go there... Kam Chancellor shouldn't have been called for his PI, and GB would have punted the ball instead of scoring a TD and gaining the lead.

      I stand by my first idea to just erase this game from the season and have each team play again at the end of the season.
      Last edited by SOAR; 09-25-2012 at 04:52 PM.

    5. Senior Member SAPJetta's Avatar
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      09-25-2012 04:55 PM #55
      Tate never got his right hand onto the ball until after they had touched the ground and were both falling. If they both had two hands firmly on the ball when they hit, possession should go to Tate, but he was still trying to get his right hand in there.
      Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

    6. Moderator SOAR's Avatar
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      09-25-2012 05:01 PM #56
      That's exactly what happened. Watch this replay, His feet aren't down until Tate gets his right hand around the ball and has both of his feet on the ground. He maintains that until his ass hits the ground, and he rolls onto his back, at which point Jennings gets the upper hand.

      http://youtu.be/eWayQ6Y340k?t=1m4s

      Like I said, I ain't sayin it's the way it should be. But the strict interpretation of the rule makes this sound like it was arguably correct, and probably explains why the booth upheld it.
      Last edited by SOAR; 09-25-2012 at 05:23 PM.

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      09-25-2012 05:35 PM #57
      look closely at his Jennings right leg, as he is coming down Tate is rotating backwards and trying to get a hold of the ball, Jennings leg is frozen showing that it is on the ground

    8. Moderator SOAR's Avatar
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      09-25-2012 05:40 PM #58
      Quote Originally Posted by webbs2jzgte View Post
      look closely at his Jennings right leg, as he is coming down Tate is rotating backwards and trying to get a hold of the ball, Jennings leg is frozen showing that it is on the ground
      One leg on the ground means nothing. You cannot have possession of the ball until both feet are down. Jennings certainly gets both feet down at some point, but not until after Tate has both of his hands on the ball, and pulled in close to his chest, with his feet on the ground.

      Jennings second foot or knee don't touch the ground until Tate's feet hit the ground. Tate even falls back on his ass before Jennings is considered "down" with the ball.

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      09-25-2012 07:51 PM #59
      I just don't think anyone can reasonably argue that at the point that they hit the ground, Jennings clearly had full possession, and Tate had none.

      Whether Jennings had more or less is completely moot. There’s no such thing. It’s stupid to talk about. Either one of them did, both of them did, or neither of them did. Obviously it wasn’t “neither of them,” and “both of them” means TD. So the question is: can you tell me conclusively that Jennings had full possession of the ball at the point that he and Tate hit the ground?

    10. Senior Member SAPJetta's Avatar
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      09-25-2012 10:37 PM #60
      I preferred this one

      Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

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      09-25-2012 10:53 PM #61
      Guys...it wasn't an easy call, even for the now-overrated-but-really-not-much-better regular officials. I'd say the odds were 50/50 that the regular officials would've blown the call, too.

      The replacements screwed up in how they went about it (conflicting calls by 2 refs standing right next to each other without even discussing the play). And then, how they managed the end of the game (allowing people to storm the field, letting teams leave before the PAT, not being at the play when the PAT was ready to happen, etc).

      That's what really showed inexperience. The call was just another bad call. The regular refs had PLENTY of those in their time.
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    12. Member SAV912's Avatar
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      09-26-2012 02:38 AM #62
      Quote Originally Posted by Big M View Post
      Guys...it wasn't an easy call, even for the now-overrated-but-really-not-much-better regular officials. I'd say the odds were 50/50 that the regular officials would've blown the call, too.

      The replacements screwed up in how they went about it (conflicting calls by 2 refs standing right next to each other without even discussing the play). And then, how they managed the end of the game (allowing people to storm the field, letting teams leave before the PAT, not being at the play when the PAT was ready to happen, etc).

      That's what really showed inexperience. The call was just another bad call. The regular refs had PLENTY of those in their time.
      But would the regular refs have missed such a blatantly obvious offensive PI call on Tate? I mean the line judge was RIGHT THERE because he walks like four steps. The back judge has to come all the way over before he signals a touchback, indicating an interception. The line judge should've seen the shove because in the scheme of things, so much time had happened between the ball arriving and the penalty that wasn't called.

      If that call was made like it should've been, then whether or not it was a catch or interception would've been irrelevant. The pass would've been negated all together and the game would have been over. I don't think the rule of the game not ending on a penalty would've applied because Seattle was on offense and they were the ones that committed the penalty, leaving Green Bay to decline and end the game.
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    13. Moderator SOAR's Avatar
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      09-26-2012 03:48 AM #63
      Quote Originally Posted by SAV912 View Post
      The back judge has to come all the way over before he signals a touchback,
      Why do people keep saying this? He didn't signal touchback. Touchback signal is a one arm motion up and down. He motioned for time out. Why? Who knows. He probably didn't know what to do so he just started waving his hands in the air for help.

    14. Member SAV912's Avatar
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      09-26-2012 04:52 AM #64
      Quote Originally Posted by SOAR View Post
      Why do people keep saying this? He didn't signal touchback. Touchback signal is a one arm motion up and down. He motioned for time out. Why? Who knows. He probably didn't know what to do so he just started waving his hands in the air for help.
      He didn't actually motion touchback, no. Not in the traditional sense. I guess it's just easier to say that his panicky flailing about looks enough like touchback or time out or make pancakes, but any of those would've been more appropriate for the situation than "oh..uh...touchdown?"
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      09-26-2012 05:20 AM #65
      Quote Originally Posted by SOAR View Post
      You can argue sooo many terrible calls that would have changed that game in one direction or another, and resulted in the other team winning.

      IMO, You can't say Green Bay should have won. You can't say Seattle should have one. All you can say is that the refs absolutely destroyed that game beyond any recognition. I watched the game at a sports bar, filled with Seahawks fans. Everyone was laughing, and shrugging their shoulders by the 3rd quarter at calls both for and against the hawks. People just completely stopped taking the game seriously.

      It was a joke in every sense of the word. They made a handful of terrible calls to help GB get back into the game, then immediately followed by making a handful of terrible calls to help Seattle come back and win the game. Once all that started the game was ruined.
      I think this sums it up best, the whole outcome of the game was changed so many times by the calls made or not made by the replacement refs. As a Seahawks fan I can admit my biases but this will just be another item heaped in the pile of the lack of respect this team gets, people seem to forget all those sacks and other legitimate events that happened in the game.

      Overall the NFL needs to get this resolved but as mentioned in the press with tens of thousands of tweets in minutes about stuff like this do you really think it is hurting the NFL. The owners will need to pressure the league to get this sorted and until they get very angry I cannot see anyone making a huge move, however I think the refs demands are not a massive deal and it really should have never come to this, but that is the world we live in.

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      09-26-2012 07:19 AM #66
      Quote Originally Posted by SAV912 View Post
      But would the regular refs have missed such a blatantly obvious offensive PI call on Tate?
      Probably.

      When was the last time you saw an offensive pass interference call on a hail Mary pass in the end zone to end the game? They're all over each other in those situations, but refs just let it play out. It's a hail Mary.
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    17. 09-26-2012 07:40 AM #67
      How about, "Why didn't Jennings knock the ball down?" On this play ALL defenders are taught to knock the ball down for exactly this type of reason.

      You leave the game in the hands of the Refs and you get what you deserve, in ANY sport.
      Last edited by adoniram7; 09-26-2012 at 07:56 AM.
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      09-26-2012 10:29 AM #68
      Quote Originally Posted by killerparties View Post
      I just don't think anyone can reasonably argue that at the point that they hit the ground, Jennings clearly had full possession, and Tate had none.

      Whether Jennings had more or less is completely moot. There’s no such thing. It’s stupid to talk about. Either one of them did, both of them did, or neither of them did. Obviously it wasn’t “neither of them,” and “both of them” means TD. So the question is: can you tell me conclusively that Jennings had full possession of the ball at the point that he and Tate hit the ground?
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    19. Moderator SOAR's Avatar
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      09-26-2012 01:25 PM #69
      Sounds like they got a deal with the refs. Could be back in stripes by the weekend.

    20. Semi-n00b
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      09-26-2012 01:39 PM #70
      Quote Originally Posted by vandiesel View Post
      We see where you're from

    21. Senior Member SAPJetta's Avatar
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      09-26-2012 01:55 PM #71
      Quote Originally Posted by SOAR View Post
      Sounds like they got a deal with the refs. Could be back in stripes by the weekend.
      Came here to post this.
      Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

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      09-26-2012 01:58 PM #72
      It's rich seeing the arrogant Goodell cave.

    23. Moderator SOAR's Avatar
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      09-26-2012 02:18 PM #73
      Quote Originally Posted by Righteous Bucks View Post
      It's rich seeing the arrogant Goodell cave.
      Word is, both sides are making concessions to get a deal done.

    24. 09-26-2012 02:18 PM #74
      On at least one point the refs caved, so I'm not sure to what he is referring...

      http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...headline_stack
      "None of you understand. I'm not locked up in here with you. You're locked up in here with me."

    25. 09-26-2012 09:11 PM #75
      Quote Originally Posted by adoniram7 View Post
      How about, "Why didn't Jennings knock the ball down?" On this play ALL defenders are taught to knock the ball down for exactly this type of reason.
      Bingo.

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