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    Thread: Motortrend Head 2 Head: BMW 328i vs. Cadillac ATS 2.0T

    1. Member mx5er's Avatar
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      09-29-2012 12:34 AM #51
      Seems like Car & Driver doesn't like the shifter on the ATS too:


    2. 09-29-2012 02:44 AM #52
      Quote Originally Posted by mx5er View Post
      Seems like Car & Driver doesn't like the shifter on the ATS too:

      "...Word of caution: do not spec the manual."

      http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/C...ive-2012-07-23

      For the only manual Ats: Now we know why.

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      09-29-2012 09:55 AM #53
      Quote Originally Posted by uncleho View Post
      I'm sure the BMW is a fine car, but what in the hell possessed them to put those damn, two "bumper teets" on the front bumper fascia??????

      Gag a maggot, I thought that design stupidity died with 1990s GM cars.

      They looked out of place in terms of surface continuity back in the 80s and 90s and they look worse now!

      Eww..insurance rates? That is horrible.

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      09-29-2012 10:12 AM #54
      Quote Originally Posted by Lucidd View Post
      "...Word of caution: do not spec the manual."

      http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/C...ive-2012-07-23

      For the only manual Ats: Now we know why.
      What exactly don't they like about the manual? I have a manual Sonic and I have seen reviews that point out the manual as being vague. Just by adding aftermarket solid shifter bushings the shifter feel is 5x better.

    5. Member vasillalov's Avatar
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      09-29-2012 10:16 AM #55
      I'll take the BMW over the Cadillac as well.

      As for the transmission in the BMW, there is a clutch delay valve which spoils the shifts. Remove it and everything becomes so much better.

      Also, the E90 and I think also the F30 have a 2-stage gas pedal. After the halfway point you need to exert a bit more pressure with your foot to get the pedal to go all the way down.
      Quote Originally Posted by MAG58 View Post
      Please consider your audience before saying something sensible. 80% of TCL drivers were actually banned from Formula 1 for being too fast.
      A turbocharger is a device in where exhaust gases go in, witchcraft happens, and then you go faster.

    6. 09-29-2012 10:18 AM #56
      Quote Originally Posted by Ubryaj View Post
      What exactly don't they like about the manual? I have a manual Sonic and I have seen reviews that point out the manual as being vague. Just by adding aftermarket solid shifter bushings the shifter feel is 5x better.
      I am not sure if the typical ATS buyer will do those kind of mods, and then again, my guess is 95% ATS buyers will go for the auto. I think it's better for GM to spend money on either a 8-speed auto or some type of DSG.

    7. Member vasillalov's Avatar
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      09-29-2012 10:18 AM #57
      Quote Originally Posted by uncleho View Post
      I'm sure the BMW is a fine car, but what in the hell possessed them to put those damn, two "bumper teets" on the front bumper fascia??????

      Gag a maggot, I thought that design stupidity died with 1990s GM cars.

      They looked out of place in terms of surface continuity back in the 80s and 90s and they look worse now!
      That's not how the US cars look like at all. The front bumpers are flat and smooth.
      Quote Originally Posted by MAG58 View Post
      Please consider your audience before saying something sensible. 80% of TCL drivers were actually banned from Formula 1 for being too fast.
      A turbocharger is a device in where exhaust gases go in, witchcraft happens, and then you go faster.

    8. Member Ross1013's Avatar
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      09-29-2012 10:20 AM #58
      Quote Originally Posted by Ubryaj View Post
      What exactly don't they like about the manual? I have a manual Sonic and I have seen reviews that point out the manual as being vague. Just by adding aftermarket solid shifter bushings the shifter feel is 5x better.
      Do the two cars use the same 6MT or something?

      Quote Originally Posted by vasillalov View Post
      I'll take the BMW over the Cadillac as well.

      As for the transmission in the BMW, there is a clutch delay valve which spoils the shifts. Remove it and everything becomes so much better.

      Also, the E90 and I think also the F30 have a 2-stage gas pedal. After the halfway point you need to exert a bit more pressure with your foot to get the pedal to go all the way down.
      On 6MT models also?

    9. Member vasillalov's Avatar
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      09-29-2012 10:38 AM #59
      Quote Originally Posted by Ross1013 View Post
      On 6MT models also?
      The clutch delay valve is on the 6MT only. The accelerator pedal assembly is the same between manual and automatics.
      Quote Originally Posted by MAG58 View Post
      Please consider your audience before saying something sensible. 80% of TCL drivers were actually banned from Formula 1 for being too fast.
      A turbocharger is a device in where exhaust gases go in, witchcraft happens, and then you go faster.

    10. 09-29-2012 03:46 PM #60
      Quote Originally Posted by Ross1013 View Post
      Do the two cars use the same 6MT or something?
      Highly unlikely that the Sonic and ATS transmission share any parts.
      Bowtie wearing, tattooed, Mini driver

      Quote Originally Posted by JalopnikMatt View Post
      Yeah, I've bypassed y'all and go straight to r/cars.

    11. Member caliatenza's Avatar
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      09-29-2012 04:42 PM #61
      The ATS is a second slower than the BMW from 0-60 and the 2.0T on the ATS is rated at 270 hp...what happened?

    12. Member Ross1013's Avatar
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      09-29-2012 04:52 PM #62
      Quote Originally Posted by vasillalov View Post
      The clutch delay valve is on the 6MT only. The accelerator pedal assembly is the same between manual and automatics.
      I knew the CDV was 6MT-only, but I thought the accelerator quirk might be similar to the Audi DSG's extra click at the bottom of the pedal's travel that initiates automatic downshifting even in the fully manual mode. Guess not. I have to say that quirk really didn't stand out to me on the BMWs I drove.

      Quote Originally Posted by cougar View Post
      Highly unlikely that the Sonic and ATS transmission share any parts.
      I thought the same but maybe the guy who said that has some different information. Otherwise it was just a general anecdote about the brand (more likely)

    13. Banned Saintor's Avatar
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      09-29-2012 04:57 PM #63
      I wish the ATS as much good luck as the Regal. Just another way to say that it doesn't have a chance. The original CTS was intended against the 3-series and survived just because it was redesigned large.

    14. 09-29-2012 06:25 PM #64
      Quote Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
      I wish the ATS as much good luck as the Regal. Just another way to say that it doesn't have a chance. The original CTS was intended against the 3-series and survived just because it was redesigned large.
      lol
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      09-29-2012 06:54 PM #65
      Cadillac all day, manual transmission and all, whiny bitchass reviewers be damned.
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    16. Member B3sat16v's Avatar
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      09-29-2012 06:56 PM #66
      I drove the 328 and it handled better than the 325. And I drove the back to back.
      FLY NAVY

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      09-29-2012 08:16 PM #67
      Either Caddy is overstating the performance of the motor...

      Or it's more to do with the crappy transmission they decided to give it.

      The one reviewer thought the BMW was underrated as well.

      Almost a whole second of difference in 0-60 is pretty big.

    18. Member PlatinumGLS's Avatar
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      09-29-2012 09:13 PM #68
      Quote Originally Posted by Prail View Post
      Either Caddy is overstating the performance of the motor...

      Or it's more to do with the crappy transmission they decided to give it.

      The one reviewer thought the BMW was underrated as well.

      Almost a whole second of difference in 0-60 is pretty big.
      I believe it has to do with GM's torque management.

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      09-29-2012 09:30 PM #69
      Quote Originally Posted by Ross1013 View Post
      I thought the same but maybe the guy who said that has some different information. Otherwise it was just a general anecdote about the brand (more likely)
      I doubt they share the same transmission. Just saying that it could be an easy fix, not that I expect Cadillac owners to do something like that, but if you want a manual, you're not just a normal Cadillac buyer... I haven't had the chance to read or watch the other reviews but in this review they don't specify what makes the manual so terrible.

    20. Member vasillalov's Avatar
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      09-30-2012 12:45 AM #70
      Quote Originally Posted by Prail View Post
      Either Caddy is overstating the performance of the motor..
      .
      Quote Originally Posted by Prail View Post
      The one reviewer thought the BMW was underrated as well.
      Both are true!

      BMW traditionally underrates their engines. The N54 in the e90 is rated 300/300 hp/tq stock, but it dynos around 280/285 whp/wtq.

      The N20 engine in the F30 BMW 328 is similarly underrated.
      Quote Originally Posted by MAG58 View Post
      Please consider your audience before saying something sensible. 80% of TCL drivers were actually banned from Formula 1 for being too fast.
      A turbocharger is a device in where exhaust gases go in, witchcraft happens, and then you go faster.

    21. Member vrsexxy_GTI's Avatar
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      09-30-2012 12:59 PM #71
      The ATS does look better but i'd still take the bmw.


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      10-05-2012 12:01 PM #73
      Quote Originally Posted by vasillalov View Post
      Both are true!

      BMW traditionally underrates their engines. The N54 in the e90 is rated 300/300 hp/tq stock, but it dynos around 280/285 whp/wtq.

      The N20 engine in the F30 BMW 328 is similarly underrated.
      Despite the 32 hp rating advantage in the Cadillac they make the same HP


    23. Senior Member Mazda 3s's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 12:19 PM #74
      Quote Originally Posted by livingVoice View Post
      The Caddy's manual gets dinged again:

      The ATS was ultimately tripped up by two things that left it especially vulnerable against the BMW: its engine and gearbox.

      Cadillac claims the ATS achieves peak torque at 1700 rpm (the BMW can call up full grunt as low as 1250 rpm), but you’d never know it. Launching the Caddy proved difficult, with the car either bogging or frittering power away through excessive wheelspin. And though there’s power lurking in its little 4-banger, the ATS suffers from turbo lag, a congested-sounding exhaust note and a power curve that feels too compressed. All the urge seems concentrated between 2500 and 6000 rpm, where the more flexible BMW zings and sings anywhere from 1500 to 7000 rpm.

      Worse, the manual gearbox recalls the Ghost of Saabs Past, clanking its awkward chains. Throws are a bit long and loose-jointed; the Camaro ZL1’s manual is a paragon in comparison. Chasing the BMW on wooded back roads, I occasionally jammed the 3rd-to-2nd shift, killing forward progress.

      With a tight powerband and short gearing, the Cadillac requires two shifts, three gears and 6 seconds to reach 60 mph. That puts the ATS over a halfsecond behind the BMW, which needs only one shift to pass 60 mph. Yet, when the ATS carries its ample momentum through curves, this is still a fun and confident sedan. Though we did find ourselves wondering whether another ATS, with the stronger V-6 and an automatic transmission, will end up being the enthusiast’s choice, clutch pedal or not.
      "Of course that's just my opinion; I could be wrong."

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      10-05-2012 12:56 PM #75
      Quote Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post
      Dammit GM!

      "Okay! I must have put a decimal point in the wrong place or something. S**t! I always do that. I always mess up some mundane detail."


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