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    Thread: Oil filter sound suppressor?

    1. Member
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      10-02-2012 01:09 AM #26
      Here's an interesting document with answers back from the BATF in regards to the screw on oil filter adapter silencer. Original questions were submitted by silencerco (the silencer company). I got this from reddit in r/guns.


    2. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
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      10-02-2012 08:53 AM #27
      That letter confirms what I had heard before. FWIW I have some aircraft fuel and hydraulic filters sitting around which I was thinking about using as a suppressor core for a future build. I know they can be cleaned using a warm ultrasonic bath (because that's how they are usually cleaned) and it wouldn't be hard to return them to full effectiveness. The filter material is stainless steel and filters down to a 3 micron level. From what I've seen they would work great for a suppressor. Here's an example of what one looks like:



      The reason I am considering the aircraft ones is because automotive filters aren't as durable or easy to clean. I am probably going to start the paperwork in the spring and then do the build in a year or so. I'll of course update everyone here whenever it gets built. The hydraulic filter should last pretty long. By the time I'd have to worry about replacing it I would have put countless thousands of dollars of ammo through it.

      obin
      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

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      10-02-2012 10:40 AM #28
      Very cool, it sounds like a good idea. Do you think with the filter material being so dense that the gas will end up just being shot out the barrel (where it has less resistance)?

    4. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
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      10-02-2012 12:05 PM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by 1stRabbit View Post
      Very cool, it sounds like a good idea. Do you think with the filter material being so dense that the gas will end up just being shot out the barrel (where it has less resistance)?
      Not at all. I got the idea from looking at some old-school suppressors the CIA and special ops used to use. They used rolled-up window screen material, densely packed steel wool, or a really strange metal cellular matrix which sort of resembles coral. The aircraft filter should work pretty well. It is designed to stand up to 6,000 PSI surges of hydraulic fluid so air should not be a problem.

      obin
      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

    5. Member Uberhare's Avatar
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      10-02-2012 12:17 PM #30
      ^^please keep us posted.
      The lion does not concern himself with the opinion of the sheep.

    6. Member Uberhare's Avatar
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      10-02-2012 12:20 PM #31
      Forgive my ignorance as I am new to suppressors, but what would it take to install a LEGALLY acquired suppressor for my PK380? I assume the barrel will need to either be replaced or modified with threads. What are the steps to converting a normal "unsuppressed" handgun to a suppressed one?
      The lion does not concern himself with the opinion of the sheep.

    7. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
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      10-02-2012 02:37 PM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by Uberhare View Post
      Forgive my ignorance as I am new to suppressors, but what would it take to install a LEGALLY acquired suppressor for my PK380? I assume the barrel will need to either be replaced or modified with threads. What are the steps to converting a normal "unsuppressed" handgun to a suppressed one?
      Not a bad question at all. We were all newbies at one time or another .

      Before I answer the question I want to know:

      1) Do you have good access to local gunsmiths that can modify guns for NFA (threading, short barrel, etc)? If not I can send you some contact info.

      2) Is this the ONLY gun you want to suppress?

      obin
      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

    8. Member Uberhare's Avatar
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      10-02-2012 02:41 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by Obin Robinson View Post
      Not a bad question at all. We were all newbies at one time or another .

      Before I answer the question I want to know:

      1) Do you have good access to local gunsmiths that can modify guns for NFA (threading, short barrel, etc)? If not I can send you some contact info. Yes. Dave's Guns in Nine Mile Falls WA is a few miles from my house. Good guys.

      2) Is this the ONLY gun you want to suppress? For now, yes.

      obin

      See above.
      The lion does not concern himself with the opinion of the sheep.

    9. Member Uberhare's Avatar
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      10-02-2012 02:48 PM #34
      Found this while doing a search for Walther PK threaded barrels:

      http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/vi...p?f=10&t=76716

      Keep in mind the PK380 is a tilting barrel design so not sure how that plays into how the suppressor would attach and function.
      Last edited by Uberhare; 10-02-2012 at 02:52 PM.
      The lion does not concern himself with the opinion of the sheep.

    10. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
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      10-02-2012 02:57 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by Uberhare View Post
      See above.
      Cool. This will be easy. My honest opinion is to take this info:

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ght=washington

      ... and take your gun to the local NFA shop and tell them you want to suppress it with one you chose. Your local guys are going to be your best point of contact for this kind of stuff. The neat thing about the NFA community is that it's a pretty tight knit network. Just for example in this local area within a week of moving I had a few numbers to NFA machnists that could thread, shorten, or lengthen barrels on a custom basis. These guys are the kinds that have friends who know friends who know friends and they all can help you out.

      Your local shop is going to be able to do the paperwork for you as well as bring the gun to whoever can do the custom work. The nice thing about getting it done locally is that you can "visit" the gun as the work gets done. In your case I'd recommend getting the barrel threaded and then seeing if you can try out some different suppressors at the shop. A few dealers will do a "try before you buy" or at least try the suppressors they have in stock on similar guns. They know that people don't like to throw down $700 and not really know what they are getting.

      Offhand I'd estimate to thread your barrel may be as much as $250 and the suppressor will cost between $250 and $500 + stamp.

      obin
      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

    11. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
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      10-02-2012 03:07 PM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by Uberhare View Post
      Found this while doing a search for Walther PK threaded barrels:

      http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/vi...p?f=10&t=76716

      Keep in mind the PK380 is a tilting barrel design so not sure how that plays into how the suppressor would attach and function.
      For information on how to thread your gun cross reference how to suppress a Makarov. There are custom threaded adaptors that a gunsmith can do to your Walther and it doesn't involve getting a new barrel. You thread the OUTSIDE of 1/2" of your barrel to an adaptor which then has threads on the INSIDE of it that extend past the end of the slide. If the adaptor was sitting on a table it would look like a 3/8" round cylinder threaded halfway up the outside and then the threads continue the other halfway on the inside. Does this make sense? It won't involve any welding and a good NFA machinist can make this in an afternoon.

      EDIT: I noticed a major confusing typo and then fixed it. The above info is now correct.

      obin
      Last edited by Obin Robinson; 10-02-2012 at 04:22 PM.
      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

    12. Member Uberhare's Avatar
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      10-02-2012 04:33 PM #37
      And once you pay to have the suppressor fitted by a gunsmith what are the steps to buying/owning a actual suppressor? Just pay the $200 "fee" to the ATF?
      The lion does not concern himself with the opinion of the sheep.

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      10-02-2012 04:59 PM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by Uberhare View Post
      And once you pay to have the suppressor fitted by a gunsmith what are the steps to buying/owning a actual suppressor? Just pay the $200 "fee" to the ATF?
      1) Local Law Enforcement Signature
      2) Fingerprints (usually LiveScan)
      3) Form 4 (5320.4 to be specific - http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5320-4.pdf)
      4) Certificate of Compliance (U.S. citizenship attestation, basically - http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5330-20.pdf)
      5) Check to BATFE for $200 - (Usually written to Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.
      6) Send in the mail to Georgia (Form 1s and Form 4s go to different addresses, the Form you fill out tells you where to send it) and wait 6 months hoping for approval if everything is filled in properly. If not, they will call or mail you and let you know your mistake and usually let you correct it.

      Alternatively you can go the trust route and avoid the LEO signoff and fingerprints (supposedly the certificate of compliance as well, but I heard some processors have begun asking for this one too).

      The gunsmith is only threading your barrel, that in itself is not NFA related and can be done at any time without any paperwork (besides the contract between you and your gunsmith). What is NFA related is the silencer itself which requires all the paperwork and the tax stamp.

      When you get your item, make a copy of the stamp paperwork and keep it with your item. Put the original copy in some place secure.

      If you like, I can post the link to the template trust I utilized. It has been used successfully in Maryland and i've compiled some information from other places as well to make what I think is a fairly complete trust in my state.

    14. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
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      10-02-2012 06:14 PM #39
      FWIW one of the guys on Beretta Forum made this video. It explains the above post but with a bit more visual info:



      obin
      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

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      10-03-2012 06:48 PM #40
      Step 1: 10/02/2012 ATF NFA PAYMENT 55 -200.00

      Now I wait!

    16. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 09:45 PM #41
      I did a little bit of digging into my suppressor library. The wire mesh used in the CIA and clandestine suppressors literally looks like a wire version of burlap. Don Walsh used a material like this in his very effective LARAND suppressors. Check this page for more info on how well they worked:
      http://www.bevfitchett.com/modern-fi...lencers/m.html

      obin
      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

    17. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 11:12 PM #42
      This book is one of my favorite suppressor books. It looks like someone put it online:

      http://www.scribd.com/doc/63433263/9...d-of-Silencers

      Lots of great info in the book!

      obin
      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

    18. Member 00boraslow's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 08:08 AM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by 1stRabbit View Post
      Step 1: 10/02/2012 ATF NFA PAYMENT 55 -200.00

      Now I wait!
      What you get?

      I just got my paperwork back for a Silencerco SS Sparrow. My Surefire 762SS paperwork went pending on Aug 20th. I should get the Form 4 back around New Years.
      PSN: Glock23man

    19. Member Uberhare's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 01:06 PM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by Obin Robinson View Post
      This book is one of my favorite suppressor books. It looks like someone put it online:

      http://www.scribd.com/doc/63433263/9...d-of-Silencers

      Lots of great info in the book!

      obin
      Wow. What's crazy in that book the amount of sound level suppression. 22 to 28 dB reduction in sound level is a HUGE amount. Every 3 dB decrease is effectively reducing the perceived (what you actually hear) noise level by half. Amazing.
      The lion does not concern himself with the opinion of the sheep.

    20. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 01:34 PM #45
      Quote Originally Posted by Uberhare View Post
      Wow. What's crazy in that book the amount of sound level suppression. 22 to 28 dB reduction in sound level is a HUGE amount. Every 3 dB decrease is effectively reducing the perceived (what you actually hear) noise level by half. Amazing.
      Agreed. The reason I amassed such a huge library of suppressor books is to see what the older designs were like. Apparently they worked a lot better than people give them credit for. The modern suppressor market wants something small, lightweight, and somewhat quiet. This butts heads with the laws of physics. Look at the old-school .22 LR suppressors. They were almost a foot long but they were also quieter than modern designs. The big old submachine gun suppressors worked very well but they weren't as compact as modern ones. Did you see the suppressor made using cardboard or is it not in those links? Take a look at the Maxim ones as well. That is hundred year old technology but it still works better than some modern designs.

      The other reason why suppressor designs changed to the modern small ones is that the older designs were disposable or they were built when the laws were more lenient. You could change the baffles out and you could replace the screen or Chore Boy without buying another tax stamp. The ATF changed that loophole a while ago. It killed a lot of innovation in the field. One other thing I love about those old books are seeing the hitmen improvised designs. In one of the books I have it mentions that the FBI and State Police used to come across Mob hitmen with suppressors that were made by Mob machinists. Apparently these hitmen had suppressors that were quieter and more compact than ones the US military had. Even in places like Canada and Australia there were suppressors being built (illegally) that surpassed ones the military had. Never underestimate the power of homebrewed innovation.

      obin
      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

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      10-04-2012 04:45 PM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by 00boraslow View Post
      What you get?

      I just got my paperwork back for a Silencerco SS Sparrow. My Surefire 762SS paperwork went pending on Aug 20th. I should get the Form 4 back around New Years.
      I got a Sparrow as well. I wanted a Spectre 2, but no one local had any and i've heard dealer transfers are taking 8-9 weeks.

      The Spectre 2 is slightly quieter than the Sparrow, but weights a bit more. I'll be pretty happy with the Sparrow on my 22/45 Lite I think.

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      10-04-2012 05:08 PM #47
      So, do you actually pay for the suupressor before you file the paperwork?
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    23. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 05:20 PM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by NoDubJustYet View Post
      So, do you actually pay for the suupressor before you file the paperwork?
      It depends on the dealer. The guy I work with asks for 50% down when you file paperwork and then 50% when the Form is approved. Some others are 100% upfront.

      obin
      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

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      10-04-2012 08:05 PM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by NoDubJustYet View Post
      So, do you actually pay for the suupressor before you file the paperwork?
      I didn't ask my dealer, just paid the total bill.

    25. Member DonL's Avatar
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      10-06-2012 08:43 PM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by Obin Robinson View Post
      I did a little bit of digging into my suppressor library. The wire mesh used in the CIA and clandestine suppressors literally looks like a wire version of burlap. Don Walsh used a material like this in his very effective LARAND suppressors. Check this page for more info on how well they worked:
      http://www.bevfitchett.com/modern-fi...lencers/m.html

      obin
      You know, Obin, McMaster Carr has bronze, copper, and stainless mesh fabrics through their catalogs. Just saying...
      Quote Originally Posted by jamie@vwvortex
      I'm not grouping everyone together - I would have said everyone in this forum is a moron.

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