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    Thread: What's needed for just a K04 swap on TSI?

    1. 09-27-2012 10:41 PM #1
      I'm looking at just getting a K04 and a 3in downpipe. I already have an intake and stage 1 APR tune. What I'm curious about is what the gains will be with a K04, and stock/stage 1 tune.
      Anyone wanna chime in?
      Thanks.

    2. Member VaGPuncher's Avatar
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      09-27-2012 11:47 PM #2
      Quote Originally Posted by james9120 View Post
      I'm looking at just getting a K04 and a 3in downpipe. I already have an intake and stage 1 APR tune. What I'm curious about is what the gains will be with a K04, and stock/stage 1 tune.
      Anyone wanna chime in?
      Thanks.
      So you're saying you want to run a K04 on a IHI turbo tune? If you get the APR kit the upgrade for the tune would be $299 if im not mistaken, way better off to maximize the power of that turbo. You will also experienece heat soak with the stock intercooler!

    3. 09-28-2012 09:34 AM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by VaGPuncher View Post
      So you're saying you want to run a K04 on a IHI turbo tune? If you get the APR kit the upgrade for the tune would be $299 if im not mistaken, way better off to maximize the power of that turbo. You will also experienece heat soak with the stock intercooler!
      I was more curious then anything to see what would happen to run a K04 on a stage 1 tune. I figured the stock intercooler would be okay, I'm not trying to get massive HP. I'm looking for about 300 and a better powerband.

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      09-28-2012 11:24 AM #4
      You're not understanding it.
      You NEED to get a new tune for the new turbo
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    5. 09-28-2012 12:23 PM #5
      I found some information from Unitronics. Their Stage II+ kit is just a K04, turbo back and intake. That sounds like what I'm going to do!

    6. Member toddhought's Avatar
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      09-28-2012 12:41 PM #6
      He's really right, the K04 just moves too much air for the stock intercooler to hold up. No big deal most of the time, but that first lovely day of summer and you run the risk of actually damaging something.

      If 300 is what you're after, nearly everyone's tune will make that with an intake and DP. I've got an EvoMS tune on my mk6 and make just slightly over 300 with about 330 tq. on a K03.
      2010 DBM MK6 GTI: A bunch of go-fast goodies, and a bunch of stop-fast goodies.

    7. 09-28-2012 05:02 PM #7
      Gotcha, so far we've got..
      K04
      intake
      downpipe
      tune
      intercooler

      Not a bad list to me!

    8. Member cbdr18's Avatar
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      09-28-2012 06:58 PM #8
      Just get a K04 kit.... come with everything except the intercooler and DP
      2013 VW GLI DSG / STAGE 2 APR / AFE INTAKE SYSTEM / BSH THROTTLE BODY PIPE / USP DOWNPIPE / DOG BONE INSERT / AWE TUNING DIVERTER VALVE / SOUTHWEST HOUSTON TEXAS

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    9. 09-30-2012 11:53 AM #9
      Do you have to build the motor for a k04? Has anyone blown up yet? What lets go, rods, pistons?

    10. Member Deaks2's Avatar
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      09-30-2012 01:26 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by toddhought View Post
      He's really right, the K04 just moves too much air for the stock intercooler to hold up. No big deal most of the time, but that first lovely day of summer and you run the risk of actually damaging something.

      If 300 is what you're after, nearly everyone's tune will make that with an intake and DP. I've got an EvoMS tune on my mk6 and make just slightly over 300 with about 330 tq. on a K03.
      Haha, no you don't. The K03 cannot push enough CFM for 300 bhp.
      2011 VW GTI DSG
      GIAC Stage 2, Ultimate Racing DP, Neuspeed P-Flo, DG Springs, RS-3 brake ducts, R20 tails, etc...

    11. 09-30-2012 05:44 PM #11
      You don't need anything for the k04. You can get an APR full kit with software. No need for any supporting modifications outside of the base kit.

      If you want to make more power the DP/Intake/exhaust are options to for power but APR sells a version of the kit with nothing more than their parts/turbo and software.

    12. Member toddhought's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 04:07 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by Deaks2 View Post
      Haha, no you don't. The K03 cannot push enough CFM for 300 bhp.

      Haha, yes I do. And considering I make roughly 300 at the wheels, I'd say the K03 can make plenty over 300 bhp with a proper tune.
      2010 DBM MK6 GTI: A bunch of go-fast goodies, and a bunch of stop-fast goodies.

    13. Member Deaks2's Avatar
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      10-06-2012 01:47 AM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by toddhought View Post
      Haha, yes I do. And considering I make roughly 300 at the wheels, I'd say the K03 can make plenty over 300 bhp with a proper tune.
      300 at the wheels is about 345 crank hp. You're dreaming if you think the K03 can push that much air.
      2011 VW GTI DSG
      GIAC Stage 2, Ultimate Racing DP, Neuspeed P-Flo, DG Springs, RS-3 brake ducts, R20 tails, etc...

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      10-06-2012 07:09 PM #14
      just dynoed stock 2012 gti 225WHP eurodyne Stg1, now we just did K04 with custom tune i did using Maestro 7 for Stge2 Water meth and downpipe, i added a bunch of timing, temps are running 30-40F cooler all around, car is a beast to 6800rpm. dyno next few weeks

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      10-07-2012 09:25 AM #15
      i'm not sure about just intake and downpipe but with watermeth and maybe other mods i'm sure you could get 300 hp at the crank.

      and with k04 you will also need an upgraded clutch.
      There's a little bit of rice in all of us.

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    16. 10-17-2012 06:46 PM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by toddhought View Post
      Haha, yes I do. And considering I make roughly 300 at the wheels, I'd say the K03 can make plenty over 300 bhp with a proper tune.
      Roughly 300 HP at the wheels is all the APR K04 kit makes with all the supporting mods. I seriously doubt your K03 is doing the same.
      2012 GTI APR K04

    17. 10-17-2012 06:51 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by Deaks2 View Post
      300 at the wheels is about 345 crank hp. You're dreaming if you think the K03 can push that much air.
      This^^^ why would the dude ask a question that he thinks he already has the answer for ? Normally one would deduct 15% for powertrain loss.
      2012 GTI APR K04

    18. Member toddhought's Avatar
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      10-18-2012 01:56 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by ina04gli1.8t View Post
      Roughly 300 HP at the wheels is all the APR K04 kit makes with all the supporting mods. I seriously doubt your K03 is doing the same.
      Quote Originally Posted by Deaks2 View Post
      300 at the wheels is about 345 crank hp. You're dreaming if you think the K03 can push that much air.
      It really does, once the weather cools down, i'll get it dyno'ed (it's still 95+ during the day here in phx).

      OP will deliver.
      2010 DBM MK6 GTI: A bunch of go-fast goodies, and a bunch of stop-fast goodies.

    19. Member beauy46's Avatar
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      10-25-2012 05:47 PM #19
      300hp on a facotry KO3??

      Please share Dyno graph/pics/video/mod list, or never happened

      Also with that much power whats your best ET&mph?

      I have heard of some hybrid K03's over seas but nothing like that state side. Completely stock untoched K03??

    20. Member toddhought's Avatar
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      10-26-2012 03:46 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by beauy46 View Post
      300hp on a facotry KO3??

      Please share Dyno graph/pics/video/mod list, or never happened

      Also with that much power whats your best ET&mph?

      I have heard of some hybrid K03's over seas but nothing like that state side. Completely stock untoched K03??

      I'm not a fan of the drag strip stuff (I do closed track racing instead) so i honestly couldn't tell you what the 1/4 mile time is. And yes, i've got this thread bookmarked and will update with a dyno graph once I get it done, Probably about a month or so.

      Mod list is such:
      Evolution Motorsports V-Flow intake
      Evolution Motorsports mkvi software (www.evoms.com)
      B&B 3" catted downpipe with the stock exhaust (I still liked the way stock sounded better than aftermarket)
      Plus some small brake upgrades, hawk HP+ pads, stainless lines and high temp brake fluid to keep it from boiling at track days
      2010 DBM MK6 GTI: A bunch of go-fast goodies, and a bunch of stop-fast goodies.

    21. Member nick0188's Avatar
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      10-29-2012 11:35 AM #21
      WOW! If your K03/IHI makes 300whp, I must be somewhere around 500 with a K04

      People do not understand variations in dynos, and what they are supposed to be used for. In the SLIGHT instance that your car did make 300whp, which it didn't, it was for .0000001 seconds. Or the graph was on smoothing 15 or something. Go to the track and run anything near a 110mph trap time and then come back. We don't care what your dyno looks like.

      OP, get a K04 kit that comes with the tune. Along with that you need a cheap downpipe and a better intercooler. Don't forget the clutch if you have a manual. Good to go after that
      11 GTI APR K04
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    22. Member toddhought's Avatar
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      10-29-2012 02:10 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by nick0188 View Post
      WOW! If your K03/IHI makes 300whp, I must be somewhere around 500 with a K04

      People do not understand variations in dynos, and what they are supposed to be used for. In the SLIGHT instance that your car did make 300whp, which it didn't, it was for .0000001 seconds. Or the graph was on smoothing 15 or something. Go to the track and run anything near a 110mph trap time and then come back. We don't care what your dyno looks like.
      Enh, to each their own. You like 1/4 miles, no turns and "MOAR LOW!" I like lots of torque, making turns in *both* directions and not worrying if my notched frame is going to fold the car if I ever get in an accident.

      I'll post up dyno's when I get them, probably sometime this week, and maybe those who aren't butthurt about only making 310tq on a K04 will have some decent conversation about it.
      2010 DBM MK6 GTI: A bunch of go-fast goodies, and a bunch of stop-fast goodies.

    23. Member nick0188's Avatar
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      10-29-2012 02:31 PM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by toddhought View Post
      Enh, to each their own. You like 1/4 miles, no turns and "MOAR LOW!" I like lots of torque, making turns in *both* directions and not worrying if my notched frame is going to fold the car if I ever get in an accident.

      I'll post up dyno's when I get them, probably sometime this week, and maybe those who aren't butthurt about only making 310tq on a K04 will have some decent conversation about it.
      Really dude? Check my build thread. I'm far from the "moar low" crowd. My car has all poly bushings, performance oriented coils, swaybars, WALK kit, blah blah blah. Guaranteed it will out handle, out stop, and sure as hell out accelerate anything you own on any day of the week.

      I don't care about quarter times. I said that comment as a figure of 1/4 MPH is a direct relation to how much power the car is making. A stock turbo TSI will never trap over 107MPH, and will never make over 300 whp...unless in fact you dyno a K04 car right after it and that car dyno's 350-400whp.

      And you know for a fact that the conversation on your dyno runs isn't going to go any better than this one is. The IHI turbo just does not have the capability of pushing that much air. Even if you took it off, and welded the wastegate shut, its still impossible. Good luck with your runs though.
      11 GTI APR K04
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    24. Member toddhought's Avatar
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      10-29-2012 02:44 PM #24
      Heh, alrighty then....
      2010 DBM MK6 GTI: A bunch of go-fast goodies, and a bunch of stop-fast goodies.

    25. Member VaGPuncher's Avatar
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      10-29-2012 03:09 PM #25
      In for dyno graphs!

    26. Member Jacenty8's Avatar
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      11-02-2012 04:08 AM #26
      I'm APR K04 (came with software), intake, upgraded intercooler and a 3" catless exhaust and the car runs great. I'm still running my stock DV and clutch. Never had a problem with it.
      Unitronic stage 2+
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      11-02-2012 01:55 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by Jacenty8 View Post
      I'm APR K04 (came with software), intake, upgraded intercooler and a 3" catless exhaust and the car runs great. I'm still running my stock DV and clutch. Never had a problem with it.
      the clutch is rated for like 280 ft lbs so whenever you decide to start pushing it, it will begin to go.
      There's a little bit of rice in all of us.

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    28. Member nick0188's Avatar
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      11-02-2012 01:59 PM #28
      Anyone running the stock clutch with a K04 is clearly not using their car to it's full potential. My stock clutch lasted 4000 miles on stage 2 (car had a total of 7000 miles on it). I can drive, pretty well if I can say so myself...I just use my cars for what they are designed for, taking a beating
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    29. Member Jacenty8's Avatar
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      11-02-2012 08:57 PM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by kern417 View Post
      the clutch is rated for like 280 ft lbs so whenever you decide to start pushing it, it will begin to go.
      Yeah, I agree with you. I go easy on my car. (I don't even know why I upgraded the turbo)
      Unitronic stage 2+
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    30. 11-03-2012 10:43 PM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by nick0188 View Post
      Really dude? Check my build thread. I'm far from the "moar low" crowd. My car has all poly bushings, performance oriented coils, swaybars, WALK kit, blah blah blah. Guaranteed it will out handle, out stop, and sure as hell out accelerate anything you own on any day of the week.

      I don't care about quarter times. I said that comment as a figure of 1/4 MPH is a direct relation to how much power the car is making. A stock turbo TSI will never trap over 107MPH, and will never make over 300 whp...unless in fact you dyno a K04 car right after it and that car dyno's 350-400whp.

      And you know for a fact that the conversation on your dyno runs isn't going to go any better than this one is. The IHI turbo just does not have the capability of pushing that much air. Even if you took it off, and welded the wastegate shut, its still impossible. Good luck with your runs though.
      Ever taken it to the track? What's you're hpde class?

    31. Member kern417's Avatar
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      11-04-2012 07:15 AM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by Jacenty8 View Post
      Yeah, I agree with you. I go easy on my car. (I don't even know why I upgraded the turbo)
      i'm guessing same reason i originally upgraded to (and planned to stay at) stage 2. so every once in a while i can feel it and enjoy driving the car.

      except my "every once in a while" was soon thrown out the window and turned into every stop light/highway on ramp lol
      There's a little bit of rice in all of us.

      MK5 COMPLETE PARTOUT

    32. Member nick0188's Avatar
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      11-04-2012 07:40 AM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by dadasracecar View Post
      Ever taken it to the track? What's you're hpde class?
      Drag strip only. Ran a 13.2@113 with a broken BFI motor mount. Never autocrossed or anything like that, but it takes any turn you throw at it at high speed with no movement at all. Example, theres a horshoe to get on the highway by my house that I can take at ~80 all day. Another 90 degree turn from one highway to another labled as 35 that I can take over 100 no problem.
      11 GTI APR K04
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      11-04-2012 11:12 AM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by nick0188 View Post
      Drag strip only. Ran a 13.2@113 with a broken BFI motor mount. Never autocrossed or anything like that, but it takes any turn you throw at it at high speed with no movement at all. Example, theres a horshoe to get on the highway by my house that I can take at ~80 all day. Another 90 degree turn from one highway to another labled as 35 that I can take over 100 no problem.

      Nice time and trap!

      One thing people might want to make clear in this thread is when they say 300 hp if they are referring to the wheels or crank hp... Is 300 crank hp possible on ko3? Maybe really clost but I doubt it also... 300 wheel hp (whp) hell no lol.

      And to Nick taking 35mph 90 degree turn labeled at 100.... Rofl bs ... Please take a vid and of you going 100 mph constantly around a 35 mph turn and I'll PayPal you $5... Maybe you can enter the turn at 100 but that's about as close you'll get to taking the turn at 100

    34. Member nick0188's Avatar
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      11-04-2012 11:54 AM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by TurboR850 View Post
      Nice time and trap!

      One thing people might want to make clear in this thread is when they say 300 hp if they are referring to the wheels or crank hp... Is 300 crank hp possible on ko3? Maybe really clost but I doubt it also... 300 wheel hp (whp) hell no lol.

      And to Nick taking 35mph 90 degree turn labeled at 100.... Rofl bs ... Please take a vid and of you going 100 mph constantly around a 35 mph turn and I'll PayPal you $5... Maybe you can enter the turn at 100 but that's about as close you'll get to taking the turn at 100
      Will take video while I'm going to work tomorrow
      11 GTI APR K04
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      11-06-2012 05:22 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by nick0188 View Post
      Will take video while I'm going to work tomorrow
      Hey Nick, hows that vid coming along

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