Ball-Joint Extenders

[Ajlal24]

I've searched and came across old threads from '04 and threads with MKI guys...

Whats the word on them? I know PMW produces them and there is a guy in UK too. Anybody ever had them snap on their MKIII? Any horror stories?

[Ajlal24]

I believe more than Zero people have experience with Ball Joint Extenders in the MKIII Forum...

[Ajlal24]

Hmmm?

[ABATurbo]

What are these used for? Better suspension geometry? I can't imagine that a well made extender would cause any problems.

[zrace07]

I've been running these for about a month now (PMW). I bought them used from a fellow member for a great price. I have no complaints. I am using them in conjunction with a tie rod flip kit. My only issue is that the inside of my wheel rubs the tie rod ends when I turn too hard (Over 1-1/2 turns of the steering wheel). I am running an 8" wide wheel. I don't think close to OE applications will have a problem. Overall, the steering response is greatly improved, I was very, very surprised what came out of my crappy McPherson suspension. Install of all items took about 3 hours with air tools and shooting the sh*t. Wasn't in a big hurry. I'd be happy to supply you with any more info or pictures if you wish.

[20V_DUBBIN]

Did you swap the rod ends from left to right? If not that will fix your wheel clearance issue.

[zrace07]

Did you swap the rod ends from left to right? If not that will fix your wheel clearance issue.

Huh?

[Murphy95]

Huh?

the outer tie roads are bent/curved in a way that they work on either left side or right side only. when you flip it upside down, the left outer tie rod is now curved like the right outer tie rod.

[zrace07]

the outer tie roads are bent/curved in a way that they work on either left side or right side only. when you flip it upside down, the left outer tie rod is now curved like the right outer tie rod.

Didn't even think of that. This may solve my issue. I'll look into it for sure.

[E-RustBox'er]

I'd be happy to supply you with any more info and pictures if you wish.

Do it please.

[zrace07]

Do it please.

What are you looking for? I can do it tomorrow when it's light out.

[emkaytree]

Ideally it's to get the control arms back below level. This way the tire moves away from center mass as the arm comes upward. When your slammed the wheel moves inward as the arm moves up. Obviously. It's not much difference especially on stiff suspension and the movement either way is slight. My arms are just below level and don't really feel like I would be a candidate for such hardware, but in my lower days I always wondered about them. I don't doubt from it's workings you'd feel a difference, but it wont suddenly turn it into a miata or something else.

Interested to know in how spun down those coils are in the pic. Is it possible to go so low the extenders don't help you? Those still look above center line, but has to be better than what it was I suppose.

As for horror stories, haven't heard a one. They should compliment the 3 rusty screws securing your ball joint to control arm quite nicely actually.

[BHCfarkas]

These bascially function as roll center adjusters and help eliminate any possible bumpsteer that is noticed after lowering the car quite a bit.

A few people have run this setup, but I don't see much benefit coming out of it. If you're doing any kind of motorsports with your car, you probably shouldn't lower it enough to warrant these extenders.

Zach seems to be pretty pleased with his, despite the wheel rubbing issue, but I don't see these as a necessity for executing low:101. Some people dislike any bumpsteer, and others like me just don't care lol.

[zrace07]

They should compliment the 3 rusty screws securing your ball joint to control arm quite nicely actually

I lol'd. It's true.

Zach seems to be pretty pleased with his, despite the wheel rubbing issue, but I don't see these as a necessity for executing low:101. Some people dislike any bumpsteer, and others like me just don't care lol.

In my eyes, I see this as a WAY better option than just hacking notches for them. Honestly, I feel this is the right way to go about it. Sometimes it means spending a little more money. The improved handling and steering response comes as a plus. I don't track my car or do anything like that. I was honestly amazed, but like I said, it's not a Porsche or whatever.

Hey, if you don't care, you don't care. I drove my cars for how long with bump steer and I wasn't that bothered by it. Now that it's essentially gone, I don't think I could go back

Cheers

[JASENR]

I don't think these would work on a VR after messaging a few people who have ran them.

[zrace07]

I don't think these would work on a VR after messaging a few people who have ran them.

Negative, you need 19mm ones. The 8v ones are 17mm.

[JASENR]

Negative, you need 19mm ones. The 8v ones are 17mm.

I haven't seen 19MM ones for sale.
If you seen them, let me know. <3

[zrace07]

I haven't seen 19MM ones for sale.
If you seen them, let me know. <3

They don't make them.

[JASENR]

They don't make them.

Seems like you need to blueprint me yours so I can make them 19MM at the shop.

[zrace07]

Seems like you need to blueprint me yours so I can make them 19MM at the shop.

They on the car homie, they ain't coming off. Haha.

E-Mail PMW to make you a pair, just 19mm shafts.

[BHCfarkas]

I lol'd. It's true.



In my eyes, I see this as a WAY better option than just hacking notches for them. Honestly, I feel this is the right way to go about it. Sometimes it means spending a little more money. The improved handling and steering response comes as a plus. I don't track my car or do anything like that. I was honestly amazed, but like I said, it's not a Porsche or whatever.

Hey, if you don't care, you don't care. I drove my cars for how long with bump steer and I wasn't that bothered by it. Now that it's essentially gone, I don't think I could go back

Cheers

I agree with you Zachary, I promise I do . This is definitely the right way to do it... And then you have cheap mother-effers like me who want the cheapest alternative lol.

[nfx]

I remember a thread/reading something somewhere how these weren't safe.

Also believe SCCA won't allow these for any sanctioned races.

[zrace07]

I agree with you Zachary, I promise I do . This is definitely the right way to do it... And then you have cheap mother-effers like me who want the cheapest alternative lol.

Hahaha.

I remember a thread/reading something somewhere how these weren't safe.

Also believe SCCA won't allow these for any sanctioned races.

Can you find it? They are heavy duty, Each one weighed like 2lbs with hardware. They aren't cheap by any means. Again, I don't plan on taking hard corners and beating the piss out of my economy sedan. Let's be honest, it's a FWD rear beam car.

[JohnStamos]

Whatever you do, don't buy the ones from the UK company. Anyone that knows a single thing about engineering, machining, failure testing, ect can spot the issues from a mile away. They are a death trap waiting to fail.


There is no way to make extenders for plus suspension cars, there isn't room, and the angle make's it impossible. Longer balljoints would be the only option, and that's not gonna happen with the small market.




That said, fixing the camber curve on the front of these cars makes WAY more of a difference then you would expect. Once you stop rolling on the sidewall during compression from building positive camber, you'll be surprised at how your car handles less like a shopping cart.

[Ajlal24]

Im looking at the Ball Joint Extenders, 2.0 Ball Joints and VR6 Ball Joints.

I dont think there is an extender made for VR6 Suspension. There's no notch in the Ball Joint Shaft for the extender to grip onto. 2.0's have a notch cut out of them allowing for a bolt to slip through and tighten to the shaft(compression fit), but the VR6 Ball Joint has a threaded shaft, so the extender either has to thread on, or slip over the threads to be tightened down. Both those possibilities seem like they're going to create a weak suspension joint.

[Ajlal24]

[Murphy95]

Hey Zach, did you notice alot more bumpsteer when you went air? What psi do you run your front bags at while driving? To be as low as i'd like i'm at about 25-30psi. I found the bumpsteer to be a hell of a lot worse now that i'm on air than when i was on coils. I'm really thinking i should get the extenders and flip kit this winter.

[zrace07]

Hey Zach, did you notice alot more bumpsteer when you went air? What psi do you run your front bags at while driving? To be as low as i'd like i'm at about 25-30psi. I found the bumpsteer to be a hell of a lot worse now that i'm on air than when i was on coils. I'm really thinking i should get the extenders and flip kit this winter.

I didn't really notice that much post install. 25-30 PSI sounds about right BEFORE I had these installed. Now it's around the 30-40 range. I guess since there is more in between the control arm and the suspension mount it takes that little extra to get it to lift to ride height. I definitely recommend these, you can't go wrong. Then you'll be able to lay frame

@Stamos, I've never seen those imitation ones. I can tell you first hand the PMW ones aren't just cheap milled out cast aluminum. Out of curiosity, did you go to school for autos, engineering, etc? I typically find your info useful/helpful.

[timsvr]

in for this

[JohnStamos]

@Stamos, I've never seen those imitation ones. I can tell you first hand the PMW ones aren't just cheap milled out cast aluminum. Out of curiosity, did you go to school for autos, engineering, etc? I typically find your info useful/helpful.

The PMW's are for sure top notch. I'd have no worries on them at all.


These are the ones I was talking about. http://ourtech.bigcartel.com/ball-joint-extenders The fillets(non existent) on the highest stress point in the design is a recipe for disaster. I see stress cracks occuring, followed by corrosion weeping into them, then failure. Not to mention the lack of ANY real information provided. No mention of alloy used, no mention of Post-Machining treatment (assuming none which is frightening), etc.






I don't have any real long-term "formal" post secondary education in engineering, automotive, etc aside from a few select "intro" courses taken to start the ball rolling so to speak (CADD, Architecture, Structures/Design, Electric Engineering, etc, etc). I just spend ALOT (read 6+ hours a day for multiple years) of time self educating after the fact. I am a firm believer that you can educate yourself better alone, on your own, with textbooks, the internet, and hands on experience, then sitting in a chair while someone else tries to explain the same thing to you and 40 other people, all while most the information they learned is usually already outdated.

So to end my ramble, nope, no degree in any Auto related field at all, and no plans on it either.

[zrace07]

.

Wow, those things look like they would snap in about a week.

Gotcha on that, that is how I learned all I know so far about cars. Internet, books, etc. Such an underrated tool.

[Kiyokix]

This bump steer is getting on my nerves, I'm thinking my next suspension purchase will be the PMW extenders. $265 is totally worth it for a better handling car to me.

Thanks for the 'review' zrace, and the input Mr.Stamos

Kei