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    Thread: Wow, the Buick Verano is Very Impressive

    1. 09-30-2012 02:19 PM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by Quattro80 View Post
      Why couldn't they just slap on a Buick badge on this thing instead? This looks a bazillion times better, IMO.
      Wow, that does look much better.

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      09-30-2012 02:26 PM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by Quattro80 View Post
      Why couldn't they just slap on a Buick badge on this thing instead? This looks a bazillion times better, IMO.
      I'd imagine at some point early in the program there was a concern over both Astra & Verano (Excelle) being sold in the same market, and thus, the need for differentiation. But that is just me speculating (i.e. I have no idea.).

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      09-30-2012 04:15 PM #38
      I really like everything about this car, except those hideous chrome strips above the tail light. This is a deal breaker for me, to these eyes they are equivalent to the chrome beaked TL. Maybe it will look better with the refresh? I wont even start a "why no manual" debate here, but that would make the car perfect... imo of course
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      09-30-2012 04:21 PM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by IridiumB6 View Post
      Sorry, this car just looks way too Chinese for me
      German car fans are thrown off by any expanse of chrome on the grill unless it looks like a huge chrome bib or horse collar.
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    5. 09-30-2012 04:31 PM #40
      You could probably just buy the astra taillights if its that big of a deal.

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      09-30-2012 04:33 PM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by BRealistic View Post
      German car fans are thrown off by any expanse of chrome on the grill unless it looks like a huge chrome bib or horse collar.
      Right? I guess a little chrome on a German car's rear makes it look Chinese. Infallible logic.
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      09-30-2012 05:12 PM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by BRealistic View Post
      German car fans are thrown off by any expanse of chrome on the grill unless it looks like a huge chrome bib or horse collar.
      Bhahahaha so true!

      But why do I not really mind the chrome on the front of a mk5 jetta, but find the rear of the Verano disgusting? Hmm...
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      09-30-2012 05:17 PM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by MK5golf View Post
      But why do I not really mind the chrome on the front of a mk5 jetta, but find the rear of the Verano disgusting? Hmm...
      I personally love chrome trim in general, but I think it was poorly applied to the back of the Verano. I do like the hood vents and the grille though.

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      09-30-2012 08:08 PM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by PJA View Post
      Now you're just being ridiculous.
      Sure

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      09-30-2012 08:13 PM #45
      Quote Originally Posted by MK5golf View Post
      Bhahahaha so true!

      But why do I not really mind the chrome on the front of a mk5 jetta, but find the rear of the Verano disgusting? Hmm...
      Because it looks stupid as hell that's why. Why is it such a blasphemy to have an opinion? I never said chrome looked terrible on cars, it was just executed on the Verano in such a piss-poor GM style manner that it looks like some tacky turd straight out of China.

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      10-01-2012 08:23 AM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by IridiumB6 View Post
      Because it looks stupid as hell that's why. Why is it such a blasphemy to have an opinion? I never said chrome looked terrible on cars, it was just executed on the Verano in such a piss-poor GM style manner that it looks like some tacky turd straight out of China.
      I think using the word "China" as a negative is the problem here. Try making your critique without being offensive to an entire nation and its citizens.

      I agree, however, that the chrome eyebrows ruin an otherwise nice little sedan. It makes the back of the car look an angry Muppet (Burt or Sam the Eagle).

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      10-01-2012 08:26 AM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by 1995Camry View Post
      You could probably just buy the astra taillights if its that big of a deal.

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      The rear bumper cap and trunk lid look to be pretty unique to each car. It would probably be easier to pull off the eyebrows and rattlecan them the same color as the rest of the car.

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      10-01-2012 08:58 AM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by whitejeep1989 View Post
      I think using the word "China" as a negative is the problem here. Try making your critique without being offensive to an entire nation and its citizens.

      I agree, however, that the chrome eyebrows ruin an otherwise nice little sedan. It makes the back of the car look an angry Muppet (Burt or Sam the Eagle).
      They make terrible looking cars...often very ugly but blatant copies of current models. If an entire country is offended by that...tough, encourage the chinese auto industry to design more attractive vehicles.

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      10-01-2012 09:52 AM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by rbloedow View Post
      To be honest - I like everything about the Verano except the rear. In fact - every time I see the rear I think of all the guady design turds that that are associated with the Chinese car market. Which makes total sense, because the Verano we got was originally designed for and debuted in China....
      No, that's not the right way to look at it.

      The Verano and Excelle were designed at the same time by the same global team, with the US and Shanghai teams applying changes to suit the local markets at the end. GM was able to get it out in China first because they were able to get a factory spun up to build it. Gotta remember that GM went bankrupt around the time they would've been putting together the plans to get Orion Assembly switched over. The money simply wasn't there to get that going, and the credit markets were in terrible shape so they couldn't just borrow the money. Also, the average wages at that plant pre-bankruptcy were very high. They couldn't have built a car like the Sonic or Verano (which are not high-margin vehicles) and sell it at a profit, without doing what they did -- which is lay off a massive portion of the workforce there, and the negotiate lower wages with the UAW in order to avoid moving production of new cars offshore.

      Things are much better now -- Orion Assembly is a profit center for GM now, so strategically GM did things right. It just meant the Verano couldn't be built until MY2012.

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      10-01-2012 10:25 AM #50
      For what it's worth my mom likes the tail lights. Non-car nerds tend to love chrome and other bright work on cars. I remember Bob Lutz saying something like $50 of chrome can add $300-400 to the price of a car in perception to customers.

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      10-01-2012 10:36 AM #51
      Quote Originally Posted by HaterSlayer View Post
      For what it's worth my mom likes the tail lights. Non-car nerds tend to love chrome and other bright work on cars. I remember Bob Lutz saying something like $50 of chrome can add $300-400 to the price of a car in perception to customers.
      My parents are in their mid to late sixties. My dad dislikes the new Caddy ATS because it is too small and not enough chrome. It is definitely a generational thing. The premium domestic brands still have to walk that fine line of appealing to these folks while not turning off younger buyers. Actually, it's not just a domestic brand problem. The Japanese and German luxury brands are pretty chrome-dipped these days too.

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      10-01-2012 10:40 AM #52
      Quote Originally Posted by whitejeep1989 View Post
      My parents are in their mid to late sixties. My dad dislikes the new Caddy ATS because it is too small and not enough chrome. It is definitely a generational thing. The premium domestic brands still have to walk that fine line of appealing to these folks while not turning off younger buyers. Actually, it's not just a domestic brand problem. The Japanese and German luxury brands are pretty chrome-dipped these days too.
      Does your dad like the XTS?
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      10-01-2012 10:55 AM #53
      Quote Originally Posted by HaterSlayer View Post
      For what it's worth my mom likes the tail lights. Non-car nerds tend to love chrome and other bright work on cars. I remember Bob Lutz saying something like $50 of chrome can add $300-400 to the price of a car in perception to customers.
      Yup, he was specifically talking about the current (not new) Impala. That was the first car at GM he had major influence over. He talked about how when he came onboard and saw it, it was even more mundane. He got them to add the chrome bits it has and that's where that quote comes from.
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      10-01-2012 11:00 AM #54
      Quote Originally Posted by whitejeep1989 View Post
      My parents are in their mid to late sixties. My dad dislikes the new Caddy ATS because it is too small and not enough chrome. It is definitely a generational thing. The premium domestic brands still have to walk that fine line of appealing to these folks while not turning off younger buyers. Actually, it's not just a domestic brand problem. The Japanese and German luxury brands are pretty chrome-dipped these days too.
      It's doubtful folks of your father's generation would opt for an ATS even if it were styled more appropriately for them, whereas the CTS could sell to both younger and older folks. I think that will be a tough balancing act on the new CTS, as it needs to appeal to both older and younger potential clients. The XTS isn't designed to appeal to young audiences at all, so that one is an easy call as well.

      Has he driven it or was he just casually checking them out? What does he thing about the current CTS?
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      10-01-2012 11:50 AM #55
      Quote Originally Posted by PlatinumGLS View Post
      Does your dad like the XTS?
      My dad is a Caddy fan from way back. He finally got his own when I was in college. It was an early 90s-ish Sedan de Ville. It was typical for Caddy of that era, complete with "roadster" roof, wire wheels, and whitewalls. It was ghastly to me, even back then, but it drove like a dream! When Caddy made the switch to Art & Science, with the first gen CTS, my dad was turned off. He still doesn't like the new CTS, and describes the ATS and XTS as looking like "Studebakers". I'm not sure what that means, but he didn't sound too positive. My parents, however, aren't old foggies. They have a Lincoln LS V8 that they love. My dad is also quite fond of Audis and the Hyundai Genesis and Equus.

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      10-01-2012 11:52 AM #56
      Quote Originally Posted by Air and water do mix View Post
      It's doubtful folks of your father's generation would opt for an ATS even if it were styled more appropriately for them, whereas the CTS could sell to both younger and older folks. I think that will be a tough balancing act on the new CTS, as it needs to appeal to both older and younger potential clients. The XTS isn't designed to appeal to young audiences at all, so that one is an easy call as well.

      Has he driven it or was he just casually checking them out? What does he thing about the current CTS?
      I was telling him about my test drive of the ATS and showing him the sales brochure. He was not impressed. LOL

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      10-01-2012 11:55 AM #57
      Any word on pricing for the 2.0T model? I wonder how it will lease...

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      10-01-2012 12:17 PM #58
      TCL approved?

      includes:
      - lowered ride height
      - tinted windows
      - debadged/rebadged as an Opel
      - chrome eyebrows plasti-dipped/painted.



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      10-01-2012 12:27 PM #59
      Quote Originally Posted by Quattro80 View Post
      Why couldn't they just slap on a Buick badge on this thing instead? This looks a bazillion times better, IMO.
      This.

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      10-01-2012 12:50 PM #60
      Quote Originally Posted by whitejeep1989 View Post
      My dad is a Caddy fan from way back. He finally got his own when I was in college. It was an early 90s-ish Sedan de Ville. It was typical for Caddy of that era, complete with "roadster" roof, wire wheels, and whitewalls. It was ghastly to me, even back then, but it drove like a dream! When Caddy made the switch to Art & Science, with the first gen CTS, my dad was turned off. He still doesn't like the new CTS, and describes the ATS and XTS as looking like "Studebakers". I'm not sure what that means, but he didn't sound too positive. My parents, however, aren't old foggies. They have a Lincoln LS V8 that they love. My dad is also quite fond of Audis and the Hyundai Genesis and Equus.
      Hrmmmm. If that's a common feeling across "classic" Caddy owners, it may be tough to get them into the showrooms.

      Perhaps a test drive would change his mind - if you can get him there.
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      10-01-2012 02:07 PM #61
      Quote Originally Posted by Air and water do mix View Post
      Hrmmmm. If that's a common feeling across "classic" Caddy owners, it may be tough to get them into the showrooms.

      Perhaps a test drive would change his mind - if you can get him there.
      Thats the problem with redesigning such "icons." You risk alienating your traditional customer base. Im sure people weren't too happy when Volvo went fwd either. I think Caddy did good with the Art&Science, but others have deviated too much from the original formula, and oftentimes not for the better (Ahem Honda)
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      10-01-2012 02:25 PM #62
      Quote Originally Posted by Air and water do mix View Post
      Hrmmmm. If that's a common feeling across "classic" Caddy owners, it may be tough to get them into the showrooms.

      Perhaps a test drive would change his mind - if you can get him there.
      I think they're happier replacing them with the younger buyers who are gobbling up Escalades.

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      10-01-2012 02:29 PM #63
      Quote Originally Posted by Air and water do mix View Post
      Hrmmmm. If that's a common feeling across "classic" Caddy owners, it may be tough to get them into the showrooms.

      Perhaps a test drive would change his mind - if you can get him there.
      He would probably enjoy driving it, he has test driven Camaros and Challengers and really likes performance cars. He is 69 y/o and has 20+ inch wheels on his F150 and a loud aftermarket exhaust. His idea of a luxury car is something that he has refered to as a "pretty car". This usually means some sort of contrasting color in the body (either two-tone paint or regrettably, roadster roof over a contrasting body color). There also needs to be chrome. Basically, his idea of what a luxury car should look like was cemented in the early 1970s. Amazingly, their Lincoln LS has none of these "burdens" of old-school tacked-on luxury styling. It is clean and understated, largely due to my mother's influence, I'm sure. I'm thinking a two-toned painted Maybach at sub-$50K prices would appeal hugely to my dad and folks of his ilk.

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      10-01-2012 02:31 PM #64
      Quote Originally Posted by HaterSlayer View Post
      I think they're happier replacing them with the younger buyers who are gobbling up Escalades.
      Well, the Escalade is the only A&S Cadillac my dad really likes.

      I agree, however, luxury car companies are better served going after those folks who are 60 and younger.

    30. 10-01-2012 03:02 PM #65
      Quote Originally Posted by 1995Camry View Post
      You could probably just buy the astra taillights if its that big of a deal.
      And a trunk lid. And a bumper skin. And some unibody work (the Astra tails are slightly longer than the Buick ones, cutting further into the unibody).

      Verano



      Astra



      The Astra's tails will not bolt up w/o those items.

      Not that it's relevant to the tails, but also notice that the c-pillar window on the Astra is a little different too (and larger).

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      10-01-2012 03:07 PM #66
      FWIW, Buick is huge in China esp among the rising middle class. The more chrome the better.
      Verano looks pretty tasteful to me. Hardly garish, but I am not into the early bird special, Florida cruising look just yet.
      Last edited by BetterByDesign; 10-01-2012 at 03:12 PM.
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