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    Thread: car lease question. yay or nay? (calling The Financial Lounge!)

    1. Member dieselraver's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 09:37 AM #51
      Quote Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
      No idea what the "tax savings" bit is, but on the surface that's effectively 18% interest rate on the $2600 for 3 years. It seems high.

      At the end of the day it's a matter of $820, and surely there should be at least some borrowing cost to them covering the $2600 shortage, but something about it sounds dirty to me. "Yeah sure, we'll cover the negative equity" and then squeezing extra money out of you.

      i guess, but even then the price of the EX-L without a tradein here in NYC is around $450 a month already so im winning regardless most likely pick up the swaggervan this weekend
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    2. Member Mike!'s Avatar
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      10-03-2012 10:16 AM #52
      Quote Originally Posted by dieselraver View Post
      Ideally i'd love to do that, but my millions of dollars is tied into Gold Bullion...

      in all reality, our car payment is $500 a month, we'd be going into a newer vehicle with a $40.00 savings, no negative equity at the end of 3 years trading up in 2.5/3 years for $366/month versus owning an outback after 4 years (one that doesn't suit our needs)
      Quote Originally Posted by dieselraver View Post
      i guess, but even then the price of the EX-L without a tradein here in NYC is around $450 a month already so im winning regardless most likely pick up the swaggervan this weekend
      You invoked The Financial Lounge, so here it is.

      Just because you've lowered your monthly payment, that doesn't mean you're "winning." You're buying a new vehicle, with inherent new car depreciation, and paying money for 3 years to cover that depreciation. You may be able to sell it for more than the buyout after 3 years, so that's some silver lining, but you're not "winning" anything; you're out money. On top of that, you're paying them an extra $820 to make the $2600 you're in the hole go away over the 3 years.

      The TFL perspective is if you can't cover $2600 of negative equity in cash, you shouldn't be buying a $30k+ new vehicle. You've made poor financial decisions leading up to this, and this is another one. The smart thing to do would be keeping the Outback a touch longer to pay the gap down somewhat (extra payments if allowed to, or saving up the negative equity in cash), and sooner or later trading it in on a used Ody farther along in its depreciation curve.

      I wouldn't be harsh like this in a "hey, look at my new car!" thread, but you asked for our advice. Having purchased two cars brand new, and having sold one with negative equity myself to downsize to one vehicle, I know firsthand that sometimes 'dumb decisions' can be worth it because you really want that car or whatever. I'm not saying don't do it. Just recognize it for what it is: another dumb financial decision. This isn't a fix or getting you out of a negative equity hole. This is a new car you're buying because you want it, and new cars cost money.

    3. Member dieselraver's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 10:25 AM #53
      Quote Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
      You invoked The Financial Lounge, so here it is.

      Just because you've lowered your monthly payment, that doesn't mean you're "winning." You're buying a new vehicle, with inherent new car depreciation, and paying money for 3 years to cover that depreciation. You may be able to sell it for more than the buyout after 3 years, so that's some silver lining, but you're not "winning" anything; you're out money. On top of that, you're paying them an extra $820 to make the $2600 you're in the hole go away over the 3 years.

      The TFL perspective is if you can't cover $2600 of negative equity in cash, you shouldn't be buying a $30k+ new vehicle. You've made poor financial decisions leading up to this, and this is another one. The smart thing to do would be keeping the Outback a touch longer to pay the gap down somewhat (extra payments if allowed to, or saving up the negative equity in cash), and sooner or later trading it in on a used Ody farther along in its depreciation curve.

      I wouldn't be harsh like this in a "hey, look at my new car!" thread, but you asked for our advice. Having purchased two cars brand new, and having sold one with negative equity myself to downsize to one vehicle, I know firsthand that sometimes 'dumb decisions' can be worth it because you really want that car or whatever. I'm not saying don't do it. Just recognize it for what it is: another dumb financial decision. This isn't a fix or getting you out of a negative equity hole. This is a new car you're buying because you want it, and new cars cost money.
      you're right. i apologize for being brash.

      the decision I am making is financial but moreso for necessity. the need for a minivan is absolute. We need it for family travel and for picking up grandma. While I wouldn't mind keeping the outback, it doesn't make sense "financially" in terms of monthly payment to keep the vehicle that is no longer of use to us. I'd rather offload it, cut my losses, lease the odyssey, tie the negative equity into the outback and come out even at the end with 0 negative equity to give me time to renegotiate a new lease in 2.5 years - 3 years.
      Last edited by dieselraver; 10-03-2012 at 10:28 AM.
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      10-03-2012 10:32 AM #54
      Quote Originally Posted by dieselraver View Post
      come out even at the end with 0 negative equity

      That's what you thought would happen when you signed the papers for the GTI. That's what you thought would happened when you signed the papers for the Outback. Why is this time going to be any different? Just because it's a lease doesn't mean you're going to hold onto the vehicle for the term of the commitment.

    5. Member dieselraver's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 10:39 AM #55
      Quote Originally Posted by SVTDanny View Post
      That's what you thought would happen when you signed the papers for the GTI. That's what you thought would happened when you signed the papers for the Outback. Why is this time going to be any different? Just because it's a lease doesn't mean you're going to hold onto the vehicle for the term of the commitment.

      GTI was when i was single

      Outback was the wifes decision, i told her to get a minivan. she refused to "succumb to a minivan"

      after 2 and a half years of the outback, shes come to terms and understands that its a necessity.

      We will use the odyssey for the full 3 years. unless we plan on becoming the next John & Kate plus 8 I don't plan on buying a Mercedes Sprinter Van.
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    6. 10-03-2012 02:33 PM #56
      We just leased an Odyssey this week. 2012, EX package, 324.99 a month out the door, nothing out of pocket. Was in a very similar situation as you. I know, CSB
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    7. Member dieselraver's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 02:36 PM #57
      Quote Originally Posted by Chiropractor JW View Post
      We just leased an Odyssey this week. 2012, EX package, 324.99 a month out the door, nothing out of pocket. Was in a very similar situation as you. I know, CSB

      mileage allowance? how many months? what state? (tax rate?)
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    8. 10-03-2012 03:33 PM #58
      12,000 miles a year, 35 months (they covered the first month.) I'm in Florida.

      We went in Sunday interested in the LX lease, which was advertised as 310/mo, nothing out of pocket. I didn't realize that was without tax and about 1300 in various "fees." Plus they didn't have an LX on the lot, only 3 or 4 EX's. So I made a stink and left. They called me back and said they would get me an EX for nearly the same price - taxes and fees rolled into the payment, and it was something like 361 a month. I said thanks but no thanks. Monday was the last day of their sales month, I guess they just wanted to deal. I was able to talk them down to the 324.99 price I previously mentioned.

      The lease price was based on a purchase price of something like 26 or 27 and change, MSRP was 33 I think. Lease buyout is 18500 or so, I don't know the money factor (don't completely understand how that works), but the finance guy multiplied it by 2400 (or whatever) and it came to be less than .5% interest if I recall correctly. Hope this helps.
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    9. 10-03-2012 03:40 PM #59
      Quote Originally Posted by barry2952 View Post
      Incorrect. You can easily sell a car you're financing and get a new one. It's nearly impossible to break a lease unless you want to line their pockets with your money.

      As far as ownership goes, you still own the car, even if making payments. The bank has a lien on it, but you are free to dispose of it if you want to. You own nothing if you lease.

      Companies lease for profit, at your expense. You are paying for depreciation and mileage up-front. That's what makes no sense.

      Very, VERY wrong.

      You can sell both financed and leased cars, and in each case, the only thing holding you back is what you owe.

      Leasing is like financing in that its one more way to finance a car.

      Leasing makes complete sense to me in that you know you will own a car for X years, and are only paying for the portion of the car you are using (miles and depreciation, which is basically the same thing in a lease). You are not putting a down payment down, that's still in the bank. On a loan, you are putting a huge downpayment down, paying the entire amount in monthly payments, and if you sell the car before the end of the loan, how is that any different than leasing?
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    10. 10-03-2012 03:41 PM #60
      Quote Originally Posted by MatchStick View Post
      I have posted before, the way you can tell if you own a car - you have possession of the title, your name is on it and there's nothing under the lienholder section.
      Yep. This is the truth.
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    11. 10-03-2012 03:49 PM #61
      Quote Originally Posted by dieselraver View Post
      Ideally i'd love to do that, but my millions of dollars is tied into Gold Bullion...

      in all reality, our car payment is $500 a month, we'd be going into a newer vehicle with a $40.00 savings, no negative equity at the end of 3 years trading up in 2.5/3 years for $366/month versus owning an outback after 4 years (one that doesn't suit our needs)
      As much of a fan of leasing as I am, you're really not too bright with trading in and leasing cars, and based on your previous posts, I would seriously re-evaluate your decision making process.

      You still have negative equity, it's just built into your lease and inflated in the payoff amount. You are now underwater (or will be if you got the Honda) by the $2500 (or whatever) to that, plus whatever depreciation you are subjected to when you drive off the lot. You still pay that negative equity too, in the form of higher lease prices for the new car. You didn't think the bank would just pay it for you, did you?

      If you can stick it out for the terms of the lease at your $366/month (or whatever), then what you are doing is saving money in CASH FLOW, which The Financial Lounge here does not generally get, and is a serious practical consideration in daily finance decisions.

      But don't for a second think you are off the hook for that negative equity. You just packaged it up and disguised it as something else. And you are pretty well locked into this Honda till the end of the lease, like it or not.

      And one more thing.....

      WHAT'S THE RESIDUAL????
      WHAT'S THE MONEY FACTOR?!?!?!!

      You didn't research this deal well enough if you cannot answer those two questions.
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    12. Member dieselraver's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 05:16 PM #62
      Quote Originally Posted by GolfVIDriver View Post
      As much of a fan of leasing as I am, you're really not too bright with trading in and leasing cars, and based on your previous posts, I would seriously re-evaluate your decision making process.

      You still have negative equity, it's just built into your lease and inflated in the payoff amount. You are now underwater (or will be if you got the Honda) by the $2500 (or whatever) to that, plus whatever depreciation you are subjected to when you drive off the lot. You still pay that negative equity too, in the form of higher lease prices for the new car. You didn't think the bank would just pay it for you, did you?

      If you can stick it out for the terms of the lease at your $366/month (or whatever), then what you are doing is saving money in CASH FLOW, which The Financial Lounge here does not generally get, and is a serious practical consideration in daily finance decisions.

      But don't for a second think you are off the hook for that negative equity. You just packaged it up and disguised it as something else. And you are pretty well locked into this Honda till the end of the lease, like it or not.

      And one more thing.....

      WHAT'S THE RESIDUAL????
      WHAT'S THE MONEY FACTOR?!?!?!!

      You didn't research this deal well enough if you cannot answer those two questions.
      I did the numbers for "ideal" using Honda's money factor and residual values given to me by Edmunds, they beat my best number by almost $40.00 using a 54% residual and a 0.00064MF. it just can't be touched. I am getting this van at below market value the number I used was $32,052.00

      here are my numbers just to show you

      msrp 35025
      invoice 32021
      my price = 30804
      35025 x .54 = 18913.5
      30804- 18913.5 = 11890.5
      11890.5/36= 330.29
      30804 + 11890.5 = x .00064 = 26.90

      Total = $330.29 + 26.90 = $357.19

      Plus tax = $357.19 x 1.8875 NYS Tax rate = $388.89

      Lets not forget the DMV $240 for NYS, plus whatever else, "finance, doc fees etc"

      this is a TRUE sign and drive, i pay $0.00 when i pick up the van, nothing due at lease end, nada.

      my first months payment is in 30 days when they mail me a statement.

      so you see. i really am getting a spectacular deal.
      Looking for a new or used Volkswagen in NY/NJ/CT? PM me! I offer bottom line pricing! GTI Monster Mats & Gorilla Liner for Sale! http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...la-Trunk-Liner

    13. 10-03-2012 09:18 PM #63
      Dude.

      1 - Get the van. Don't dildo around and trade in until the lease is up in 36 months. All will be well.

      2 - Post a write-up in 6 months or whatever to let us all know how you and your lady friend like the car, etc.

      3 - ???

      4 - Profit!!!!
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    14. Member caj1's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 10:26 PM #64
      Quote Originally Posted by Chiropractor JW View Post
      Dude.

      1 - Get the van. Don't dildo around and trade in until the lease is up in 36 months. All will be well.

      2 - Post a write-up in 6 months or whatever to let us all know how you and your lady friend like the car, etc.

      3 - ???

      4 - Profit!!!!
      ^^This

      Is dicking around with a few bucks a month really worth this thread?

    15. Member dieselraver's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 10:38 PM #65
      Quote Originally Posted by caj1 View Post
      ^^This

      Is dicking around with a few bucks a month really worth this thread?
      Truth in this. Deal is set. Just waiting on the overnight financials to get here. Then we pick it up next weekend. Appreciate all the help folks.
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    16. Member caj1's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 10:43 PM #66
      Quote Originally Posted by dieselraver View Post
      Truth in this. Deal is set. Just waiting on the overnight financials to get here. Then we pick it up next weekend. Appreciate all the help folks.
      Congrats and enjoy!

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      10-03-2012 11:41 PM #67
      Quote Originally Posted by dieselraver View Post
      Truth in this. Deal is set. Just waiting on the overnight financials to get here. Then we pick it up next weekend. Appreciate all the help folks.
      Thumbs up. I totally agree with Mike, but if you stick with this lease and pay it off, you will come out fine in the end and ready to lease again. I see it all the time at work - rolling negative equity and paying it off is part of the reason why I recommend leases.

      As far as Lojack goes? It's 90% profit. Don't buy it unless you are actually worried the car will be stolen; and in this particular case, you want it to be. Get gap coverage though. And maybe ibex if your kids are messy.
      Quote Originally Posted by StressStrain View Post
      To appease the youngster inside and prove that he really is single, my friend replaced all mufflers with straight pipes. Now it is a combination of awe inspiration and complete headache. It bellows and moans like a 300 lb fetishist whore. It eats tires like rubber trees are sworn enemies. It drinks gas like it feels personally responsible for ensuring the longevity of Saudi dynasties.

    18. 10-04-2012 02:13 PM #68
      Quote Originally Posted by dieselraver View Post
      I did the numbers for "ideal" using Honda's money factor and residual values given to me by Edmunds, they beat my best number by almost $40.00 using a 54% residual and a 0.00064MF. it just can't be touched. I am getting this van at below market value the number I used was $32,052.00

      here are my numbers just to show you

      msrp 35025
      invoice 32021
      my price = 30804
      35025 x .54 = 18913.5
      30804- 18913.5 = 11890.5
      11890.5/36= 330.29
      30804 + 11890.5 = x .00064 = 26.90

      Total = $330.29 + 26.90 = $357.19

      Plus tax = $357.19 x 1.8875 NYS Tax rate = $388.89

      Lets not forget the DMV $240 for NYS, plus whatever else, "finance, doc fees etc"

      this is a TRUE sign and drive, i pay $0.00 when i pick up the van, nothing due at lease end, nada.

      my first months payment is in 30 days when they mail me a statement.

      so you see. i really am getting a spectacular deal.

      This is what I needed to see.

      In that case, I retract my post with an apology. Yes, you are getting a screaming deal, and I would jump on it.
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    19. Member dieselraver's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 07:49 AM #69
      Quote Originally Posted by GolfVIDriver View Post
      This is what I needed to see.

      In that case, I retract my post with an apology. Yes, you are getting a screaming deal, and I would jump on it.

      thanks man! the MF is even lower than the one i used, 0.00032

      the negative equity is rolled into the monthly but honest, its still a damn good price. just received the paperwork yesterday via overnight express UPS. sending it back and i'll have my van by next weekend (they have to get it registered in NYS and plated which takes time)

      and proof i am not leading TCL on another tire kicking adventure!



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    20. Member BostonB6's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 09:22 AM #70
      Actually, the way they structured the deal, the OP only makes 35 payments as lease payments are not in arrears like loan payments and the dealer made the first payment.


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      10-05-2012 11:23 AM #71
      Nice new car. My wife wants a Sienna and I am trying to talk her into the oddy. Is you paper work dated in august? And what is a rent fee? I know nothing about leases, so is a rent fee a common charge?
      Quote Originally Posted by Harpoon View Post
      I thought I was the only one that noticed Danica lately! Yeah, I'd hit it like a bad pit stop. I'd add a spring rubber, she'd splash and go, I'd drop the jack, and she'd unexpectedly nail Bowyer right afterward. Upon completion of a grueling 13 seconds I'd high-five my friends over it and wait for round two.
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    22. Member dieselraver's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 11:32 AM #72
      Quote Originally Posted by dh71704 View Post
      Nice new car. My wife wants a Sienna and I am trying to talk her into the oddy. Is you paper work dated in august? And what is a rent fee? I know nothing about leases, so is a rent fee a common charge?

      yeah i noticed the 8/27 date also, but that has no bearing on the deal at hand. the day we take delivery of the vehicle is when the lease begins so no biggie. also the rent fee is basically your finance fee. typically its your (Net Cap Cost + residual Value) x Money Factor


      i highly encourage you to drive both. the dynamics are night and day. Sienna is squishy and not very communicative, think a firmer boat of a caddy,

      the odyssey is more of a drivers van.
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      10-05-2012 11:55 AM #73
      Tax savings that dealer mentioned probably deal with you only pay taxes on the amount leased, not on the full amount of the purchase price as you would on a financed car. That's the case with most states at least.

      Only been through the leasing process once, and that was helping a friend out. Worked in her case. Needed very reliable transportation when starting a new career, and had low amount of cash savings.

    24. Member BostonB6's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 01:57 PM #74
      Quote Originally Posted by Beanboy View Post
      Tax savings that dealer mentioned probably deal with you only pay taxes on the amount leased, not on the full amount of the purchase price as you would on a financed car. That's the case with most states at least.

      Only been through the leasing process once, and that was helping a friend out. Worked in her case. Needed very reliable transportation when starting a new career, and had low amount of cash savings.
      Yeah but, at least in MA, you end up paying sales tax on the interest too when you lease. One of the small pitfalls of leasing.

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      10-05-2012 06:10 PM #75
      In Illinois if you buy a 22k car and the dealer gives you 20k for a trade in you take the selling price minus the trade in price(22k-20k=2k) and that is what you pay taxes on rather than the full selling price. That could be what the dealer meant by tax savings.
      Quote Originally Posted by Harpoon View Post
      I thought I was the only one that noticed Danica lately! Yeah, I'd hit it like a bad pit stop. I'd add a spring rubber, she'd splash and go, I'd drop the jack, and she'd unexpectedly nail Bowyer right afterward. Upon completion of a grueling 13 seconds I'd high-five my friends over it and wait for round two.
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