VAG dyno day - interesting results?

[intoflatlines]

Ran a bunch of VAG cars today on a Mustang dyno, mostly MKVI GTIs. What did I learn (some obvious stuff of course)?
- A good FMIC makes a difference (MKVI GTI with SPM FMIC actually had each pull the same or stronger than the last, GTIs with stock IC heatsoaked and had worse numbers usually after the first pull)
- The rumor that Uni/Revo/GIAC/etc. is more aggressive than "tame" APR is not true
- Stage 2 intake piping makes no relevant difference
- R32s sound more powerful than they are


Here are the results and videos:


MKVI Golf R - Unitronic Stage 1, Evolution Motorsport intake - 263.2 whp / 259.4 wtq
MKV R32 - drop in filter, flapper mod - 196.6 whp / 188.0 wtq
B7 RS4 - stock - 291.4 whp / 253.1 wtq
MKVI GTI - APR Stage 2, APR Carbonio intake, APR TBE - 231.7 whp / 262.5 wtq
MKVI GTI - APR Stage 2, APR Carbonio intake, SPM FMIC, Billy Boat TBE (catless, no res) - 243.4 whp / 270.4 wtq
MKVI GTI - APR Stage 2, APR Carbonio intake, GHL 200 cell catted DP (no res), Magnaflow CBE - 239.6 whp / 272.6 wtq
MKVI GTI - REVO Stage 2, Modshack intake, AWE TOP, AWE DP - 242.4 whp / 264.7 wtq
MKVI GTI - Unitronic Stage 2, Neuspeed P-Flo intake, Billy Boat catted/resonated TBE - 228.9 whp / 255.1 wtq
MKVI GTI - APR Stage 2, APR Carbonio intake, AWE downpipe - 237.1 whp / 264.7 wtq
MKVI GTI - Unitronic Stage 2, ATP catless downpipe - 235.0 whp / 265.5 wtq
MKVI Golf R - stock - 225 whp / 245 wtq (no video, ran before I arrived)

And here are results from our first dyno day before the motherboard on the computer fried:
8P A3 K04 - aftermarket intake, Billy Boat downpipe - 252 whp / 267 wtq
MKVI Golf R - Evolution Motorsport intake - 233 whp / 254 wtq (same Golf R that made 263/259 after GIAC Stage 1)
MKVI Golf R - APR Stage 1 software - 252 whp / 282 wtq
MKVI GTI - stock - 196 whp / 202 wtq (Same GTI that made 229/255 after Unitronic Stage 2, P-Flo intake, Billy Boat TBE)

Other results from the same dyno, but without video and on a different day:
MKVI Golf R - GIAC Stage 1, CTS Turbo intake - 272 whp / 265 wtq
MKVI GTI - GIAC Stage 2, AFE intake, Billy Boat catted downpipe - 228 whp / 270 wtq
MKVI GTI - APR K04, APR Carbonio intake, APR TBE, APR intercooler, 93 octane - 307 whp / 313 wtq

10/20/2012 dyno day (only 1 video):
2010 Tiguan AWD - APR K04, APR Carbonio, Techtonics Tuning downpipe, 100 octane file - 272.5 awhp / 293.6 awtq
2011 Tiguan AWD - APR Stage 1, 93 octane file - 194 awhp / 233 awtq
MKVI Golf R - GIAC Stage 1, CTS intake, CTS downpipe, 93 octane file - 289.6 awhp / 304.7 awtq
MKVI Golf R - GIAC Stage 1, CTS intake, CTS downpipe, 93 octane file - 285 awhp / 302 awtq
MKV GTI - K04, intake, downpipe, intercooler, HPFP, injectors, S3 TOP, Unitronic tune, 93 octane file - 288.8 whp / 284.2 wtq
MKVI GTI - Revo Stage 2, Modshack intake, AWE TOP, AWE downpipe, 100 octane file - 249 whp / 282 wtq

Videos:

MKVI Golf R - Unitronic Stage 1, Evolution Motorsport intake - 263.2 whp / 259.4 wtq


MKV R32 - drop in filter, flapper mod - 196.6 whp / 188.0 wtq


B7 RS4 - stock - 291.4 whp / 253.1 wtq


MKVI GTI - APR Stage 2, APR Carbonio intake, APR TBE - 231.7 whp / 262.5 wtq


MKVI GTI - APR Stage 2, APR Carbonio intake, SPM FMIC, Billy Boat TBE (catless, no res) - 243.4 whp / 270.4 wtq


MKVI GTI - APR Stage 2, APR Carbonio intake, GHL 200 cell catted DP (no res), Magnaflow CBE - 239.6 whp / 272.6 wtq


MKVI GTI - REVO Stage 2, Modshack intake, AWE TOP, AWE DP - 242.4 whp / 264.7 wtq


MKVI GTI - Unitronic Stage 2, Neuspeed P-Flo intake, Billy Boat catted/resonated TBE - 228.9 whp / 255.1 wtq


MKVI GTI - APR Stage 2, APR Carbonio intake, AWE downpipe - 237.1 whp / 264.7 wtq


MKVI GTI - Unitronic Stage 2, ATP downpipe - 235.0 whp / 265.5 wtq


Some runs from our first dyno day before the computer broke:

8P A3 K04 - aftermarket intake, Billy Boat downpipe - 247 whp / 263 wtq


MKVI Golf R - Evolution Motorsport intake - 233 whp / 254 wtq


MKVI Golf R - APR Stage 1 software - 252 whp / 282 wtq


MKVI GTI - stock - 196 whp / 202 wtq


Different days, same dyno:

MKVI GTI - APR K04, APR Carbonio intake, APR TBE, APR intercooler, 93 octane - 307 whp / 313 wtq


2010 Tiguan AWD - APR K04, APR Carbonio, Techtonics Tuning downpipe, 100 octane file - 272.5 awhp / 293.6 awtq

[GTI Fanboy]

Thanks for the info!

[intoflatlines]

Updated with info/vids from first dyno day

[resilientsoma]

Thought these numbers would be a little higher. Thanks for sharing!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[flyboy34]

Kevin, I did my pull before everyone got there Golf R stock 223 HP 245 TQ.

Also I believe Rarehare has APR tune not GIAC.

My other friend who had stage 1 GIAC pull done on Thursday on his Golf R pulled 272 HP and 265 TQ.

[flyboy34]

Kevin, I did my pull before everyone got there Golf R stock 223 HP 245 TQ.

Also I believe Rarehare has APR tune not GIAC.

My other friend who had stage 1 GIAC pull done on Thursday on his Golf R pulled 272 HP and 265 TQ.

Rarehare was Unitronics

[intoflatlines]

Thanks, I will add that data and edit the details later


Sent via Tapatalk, probably with typos

[intoflatlines]

Kevin, I did my pull before everyone got there Golf R stock 223 HP 245 TQ.

Also I believe Rarehare has APR tune not GIAC.

My other friend who had stage 1 GIAC pull done on Thursday on his Golf R pulled 272 HP and 265 TQ.

didn't you pull with GIAC on your GTI? What were your mods and what did you make? Also, what mods did the GIAC Golf R have? I'm trying to get all dynos on this setup posted

[flyboy34]

didn't you pull with GIAC on your GTI? What were your mods and what did you make? Also, what mods did the GIAC Golf R have? I'm trying to get all dynos on this setup posted

Yeah, when I originally ran my GTI I pulled 228 HP 270TQ. It had GIAC flash, Billy Boat DP with cat and AFE CAI.

The Golf R had GIAC flash with CTS Turbo CAI.

[intoflatlines]

Thanks. Updated original post, and here is a list sorted by HP:

B7 RS4 - stock - 291.4 whp / 253.1 wtq
MKVI Golf R - GIAC Stage 1, CTS Turbo intake - 272 whp / 265 wtq
MKVI Golf R - Unitronic Stage 1, Evolution Motorsport intake - 263.2 whp / 259.4 wtq
MKVI Golf R - APR Stage 1 software - 252 whp / 282 wtq
8P A3 K04 - aftermarket intake, Billy Boat downpipe - 247 whp / 263 wtq
MKVI GTI - APR Stage 2, APR Carbonio intake, SPM FMIC, Billy Boat TBE (catless, no res) - 243.4 whp / 270.4 wtq
MKVI GTI - REVO Stage 2, Modshack intake, AWE TOP, AWE DP - 242.4 whp / 264.7 wtq
MKVI GTI - APR Stage 2, APR Carbonio intake, GHL 200 cell catted DP (no res), Magnaflow CBE - 239.6 whp / 272.6 wtq
MKVI GTI - APR Stage 2, APR Carbonio intake, AWE downpipe - 237.1 whp / 264.7 wtq
MKVI GTI - Unitronic Stage 2, ATP catless downpipe - 235.0 whp / 265.5 wtq
MKVI Golf R - Evolution Motorsport intake - 233 whp / 254 wtq
MKVI GTI - APR Stage 2, APR Carbonio intake, APR TBE - 231.7 whp / 262.5 wtq
MKVI GTI - Unitronic Stage 2, Neuspeed P-Flo intake, Billy Boat catted/resonated TBE - 228.9 whp / 255.1 wtq
MKVI GTI - GIAC Stage 2, AFE intake, Billy Boat catted downpipe - 228 whp / 270 wtq
MKVI Golf R - stock - 225 whp / 245 wtq
MKV R32 - drop in filter, flapper mod - 196.6 whp / 188.0 wtq
MKVI GTI - stock - 196 whp / 202 wtq

[flyboy34]

Very nice job, Kevin

[r0nd3L]

Interesting results indeed. I was surprised seeing mine and the other Uni car dyno less than APR cars.

[intoflatlines]

Interesting results indeed. I was surprised seeing mine and the other Uni car dyno less than APR cars.

Right.. with all the trash talking that the other tuners do (and the MKVI community seemingly believes), I was expecting the APR cars to have the lowest numbers.

[r0nd3L]

Here is my dyno graph. Would any of the APR guys mind posting theirs? Would be nice to compare the curves as well.

[intoflatlines]

I can post mine but it won't be for another couple days probably. Does your graph show a little lower numbers than what came up on the screen? Mine showed 239.x at the dyno (see video) but the printout shows 237.x, iirc

Unless he maybe gave me the wrong sheets, I'll have to check the timestamps

Sent via Tapatalk, probably with typos.

[r0nd3L]

I can post mine but it won't be for another couple days probably. Does your graph show a little lower numbers than what came up on the screen? Mine showed 239.x at the dyno (see video) but the printout shows 237.x, iirc

Unless he maybe gave me the wrong sheets, I'll have to check the timestamps

Sent via Tapatalk, probably with typos.

My numbers are different as well. It looks like the correction factors are different for the graph and the results sheets

[electricme]

wow nobody is going to comment on how insanely inflated APR's HP numbers are? I mean a stage one tune based on these numbers is worth about 20hp to the wheels...

[sseedubbin]

wow nobody is going to comment on how insanely inflated APR's HP numbers are? I mean a stage one tune based on these numbers is worth about 20hp to the wheels...

^^my thoughts exactly


op, nice post

[r0nd3L]

wow nobody is going to comment on how insanely inflated APR's HP numbers are? I mean a stage one tune based on these numbers is worth about 20hp to the wheels...

It looks pretty close to me. Stock GTIs dyno between 190 and 195whp on this dyno.

[evosky]

good info. i'm surprised no Stage 1 cars were dyno'd. curious, because i'm APR stage 1 with a Carbonio intake and eurojet CBE (not that it would make any difference)

[ina04gli1.8t]

It's a shame there were no K04 equipped GTI's available. I had heard that a Uni tune was more aggressive but I have always trusted & been happy with APR.

[intoflatlines]

wow nobody is going to comment on how insanely inflated APR's HP numbers are? I mean a stage one tune based on these numbers is worth about 20hp to the wheels...

it's common knowledge that all the tuners "dyno" numbers are inflated. some more than others..

^^my thoughts exactly


op, nice post

thanks



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[Euro-Noob]

Nice thread and interesting numbers
From my past experiences and what I have heard is that Mustang Dynos give out lower numbers, would be interesting to see these cars on other dynos to compare.

[intoflatlines]

Seeing them on different dynos is probably the most worthless thing. The same exact car under the same conditions can make way more/less power depending on the dyno and how it's calibrated. What makes the numbers I posted worth taking any time to look at is exactly the opposite: same dyno/calibration, same conditions, etc.. If we took one of the same cars that dynoed at 240whp, and went over to a hub dyno (or even another mustang) or whatever and made 270"whp", it'd be just as slow/fast as before, obviously.


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[Euro-Noob]

Seeing them on different dynos is probably the most worthless thing. The same exact car under the same conditions can make way more/less power depending on the dyno and how it's calibrated. What makes the numbers I posted worth taking any time to look at is exactly the opposite: same dyno/calibration, same conditions, etc.. If we took one of the same cars that dynoed at 240whp, and went over to a hub dyno (or even another mustang) or whatever and made 270"whp", it'd be just as slow/fast as before, obviously.


Sent via Tapatalk, probably with typos

Not arguing with you, I agree 100% with you that it would just as slow or fast. I would just like to see that to maybe get an average number after comparing a dynojet to a mustang dyno to get a more or less accurate reading for example. Not trying to start a war here and appreciate you posting this info.

[flyboy34]

Also keep in mind that many numbers displayed by manufacturers are at the crank. Many manufacturers utilize crank HP numbers to inflate their products values. The Mustang Dyno was designed to create as close as possible to real driving conditions on the road. So most times the numbers will be lower, but they are real.

[intoflatlines]

Right, but they also claim to add in drivetrain loss.

Sent via Tapatalk, probably with typos.

[r0nd3L]

Right, but they also claim to add in drivetrain loss.

Sent via Tapatalk, probably with typos.

Adding drivetrain loss in a sense that they are adding 10% to the whp number to get bhp.

Advertised numbers look pretty close to me. In my case, 280hp (Uni Stg2) * 0.85 = 238whp. I put down 235whp with stock intake.

[intoflatlines]

Here is my dyno graph. Would any of the APR guys mind posting theirs? Would be nice to compare the curves as well.

[RCKEV]

wow nobody is going to comment on how insanely inflated APR's HP numbers are? I mean a stage one tune based on these numbers is worth about 20hp to the wheels...

Aren't APR numbers at the crank? 10-15% loss thru the drive train is normal

[r0nd3L]

Thanks for posting the graphs

I like APR curve better. It's quite interesting how your car makes more torque sooner, seems like my turbo spool slower

[hksfd3s]

Wow great thread. Yea the Mustang dyno hurts haha. More accurate. Is what it is. 98 deg day I only did 265 whp on my APR K04 GTi 91oct

[batman25]

Thanks. Updated original post, and here is a list sorted by HP:

B7 RS4 - stock - 291.4 whp / 253.1 wtq
MKVI Golf R - GIAC Stage 1, CTS Turbo intake - 272 whp / 265 wtq
MKVI Golf R - Unitronic Stage 1, Evolution Motorsport intake - 263.2 whp / 259.4 wtq
MKVI Golf R - APR Stage 1 software - 252 whp / 282 wtq
8P A3 K04 - aftermarket intake, Billy Boat downpipe - 247 whp / 263 wtq
MKVI GTI - APR Stage 2, APR Carbonio intake, SPM FMIC, Billy Boat TBE (catless, no res) - 243.4 whp / 270.4 wtq
MKVI GTI - REVO Stage 2, Modshack intake, AWE TOP, AWE DP - 242.4 whp / 264.7 wtq
MKVI GTI - APR Stage 2, APR Carbonio intake, GHL 200 cell catted DP (no res), Magnaflow CBE - 239.6 whp / 272.6 wtq
MKVI GTI - APR Stage 2, APR Carbonio intake, AWE downpipe - 237.1 whp / 264.7 wtq
MKVI GTI - Unitronic Stage 2, ATP catless downpipe - 235.0 whp / 265.5 wtq
MKVI Golf R - Evolution Motorsport intake - 233 whp / 254 wtq
MKVI GTI - APR Stage 2, APR Carbonio intake, APR TBE - 231.7 whp / 262.5 wtq
MKVI GTI - Unitronic Stage 2, Neuspeed P-Flo intake, Billy Boat catted/resonated TBE - 228.9 whp / 255.1 wtq
MKVI GTI - GIAC Stage 2, AFE intake, Billy Boat catted downpipe - 228 whp / 270 wtq
MKVI Golf R - stock - 225 whp / 245 wtq
MKV R32 - drop in filter, flapper mod - 196.6 whp / 188.0 wtq
MKVI GTI - stock - 196 whp / 202 wtq

Im going to post this over in the Golf R forum. With a link to this thread.

[Arin@APR]

Awesome! Looks like a fun day.

[nkgneto]

I would of liked to have seen a car with a United Motorsport tune up in there!