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    Thread: So, realistically, how do we (and the organizers) improve the show?

    1. Member skydaman's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 11:31 AM #51
      Quote Originally Posted by VR6_notlosin View Post
      Absolutely.. HOWEVER there seems to be a "better" or more mature group there as well.... I was so sick of seeing evos and subis at H20 and Kids driving (17-21) it was devastating. at one point i thought that MINITRUCKING was there as well....

      I cant honestly believe that Ocean City does not want us there BY NO MEANS....
      I can only Imagine what VA BEACH would do... of course VA Beach has the largest law enforcement group in the state.
      We ALL get away with Murder in OCMD.
      Agree. Va Beach wouldnt be a good idea. But I would drive to Myrtle Beach, Outer Banks, etc anywhere that would welcome us in.

      From what I have read from the Mayor, City Council, and the Police of OC they do not want the "VW/Audi group there". In fact they say H2Oi is a nuisance and isnt a permitted event. They said H2Oi doesnt submit a special event application, that we just show up and cause havoc.

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      10-01-2012 11:31 AM #52
      Quote Originally Posted by NightTrain EX View Post
      Making it a VAG-only show again would certainly help. I was looking at the pictures a friend took and it was nothing but Canibeat / Illest Japanese nonsense.
      LOL ... I go to see the nice cars, be with my friends, and enjoy the experience. I've owned VWs and Audis and now I own a Subaru and a Honda ... don't like it? Eff off.

      Even the LBR this year was led by a B13 Sentra SER ... big freaking deal.



      Quote Originally Posted by skydaman View Post
      Agree. Va Beach wouldnt be a good idea. But I would drive to Myrtle Beach, Outer Banks, etc anywhere that would welcome us in.

      From what I have read from the Mayor, City Council, and the Police of OC they do not want the "VW/Audi group there". In fact they say H2Oi is a nuisance and isnt a permitted event. They said H2Oi doesnt submit a special event application, that we just show up and cause havoc.
      Yeah, I think Myrtle Beach would be a better option. Always thought it would be a good locale. Either that or head back to Lime Rock. I love that place.

    3. 10-01-2012 12:05 PM #53
      Quote Originally Posted by seadoo2006 View Post
      LOL ... I go to see the nice cars, be with my friends, and enjoy the experience. I've owned VWs and Audis and now I own a Subaru and a Honda ... don't like it? Eff off.

      Even the LBR this year was led by a B13 Sentra SER ... big freaking deal.
      The problem is that there are WAY too many people there. If you eliminated some of the others showing non-VAG cars then it would be a more manageable number of people at the event.

      For the record, I was not making a personal attack. What's got you so butt-hurt this afternoon?
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      10-01-2012 12:21 PM #54
      Maybe we would be able to get a group of people that really care to volunteer to clean up after the mini shows and gtg's. One would think that the organizers of such gtg's would take the initiative to clean up after themselves but that doesn't seem to be the case. But I think it would go a long way with the community for us to take some time and clean up the town a little bit on sunday morning. That lot on 45th was a disaster and the people that own those little shops probably had to clean it up. But in reality it probably would have taken a group of maybe 10 of us and a bunch of trash bags 30 minutes to clean it up. So there's no reason that we couldn't get a dedicated crew together and just walk around cleaning up a little trash here and there in the various lots and sidewalks.
      I know it may be a long shot to actually get people to dedicate themselves to do that, but we have been talking about the sunday morning mess and how terrible everyone is for years... Maybe we should just do something about it.

      The police did a great job this year imo. Cops everywhere means that cars aren't going 90 mph up and down the strip or doing donuts in the middle of the street. At least to my knowledge there were no serious accidents that happened this year due to reckless driving, like the Supra from last year for example.
      I don't know. That's just a thought. Hopefully someone will read it and maybe we can all work together to help the city out a little bit.

      Having respect for other people is one thing that should be able to define us a group of enthusiasts and set us apart from other groups. But that idea is failing as of late.
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    5. Member pentaxshooter's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 12:22 PM #55
      Quote Originally Posted by NightTrain EX View Post
      If you eliminated some of the others showing non-VAG cars then it would be a more manageable number of people at the event.
      This criticism has never made any sense to me. You can't stop people from booking hotels/condos during a certain weekend in September based upon what car they drive because of your elitist sensibilities. Even if it was objectively better to not have those cars there (and I would contest that point), it's not even feasible.
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    6. 10-01-2012 12:36 PM #56
      Quote Originally Posted by pentaxshooter View Post
      This criticism has never made any sense to me. You can't stop people from booking hotels/condos during a certain weekend in September based upon what car they drive because of your elitist sensibilities. Even if it was objectively better to not have those cars there (and I would contest that point), it's not even feasible.
      It has always been a VAG show. If it were to return to a more VAG-centric show it would reduce much of the over crowding. How is that elitist? Also you're right that they can't stop them from coming to OC, but they can deny them access to the shown grounds.

      For the record I have 2 Japanese cars.
      Last edited by NightTrain EX; 10-01-2012 at 12:38 PM.
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    7. 10-01-2012 12:42 PM #57
      Quote Originally Posted by seadoo2006 View Post
      LOL ... I go to see the nice cars, be with my friends, and enjoy the experience. I've owned VWs and Audis and now I own a Subaru and a Honda ... don't like it? Eff off.

      Even the LBR this year was led by a B13 Sentra SER ... big freaking deal.

      Well then why not ride with your friends so that the people who came down to show off our cars which are actual Euro's can get into the show! Not saying its your fault at all just when half the people i was with couldnt get into the show cuz there were 50 evos and 50 subis parked at a euro show...i just dont understand how it turned into a Canibeat show? Cant they organize there own event? Thats the end of my rant

    8. Member pentaxshooter's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 12:52 PM #58
      Quote Originally Posted by NightTrain EX View Post
      Also you're right that they can't stop them from coming to OC, but they can deny them access to the shown grounds.
      I don't have a problem with denying them to the show grounds. That's what SoWo does, and it works. I was trying to make a point about the argument so many in this sub-forum make after H20 each year that the "outcasts" need to be somehow weeded out.
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      10-01-2012 12:54 PM #59
      Quote Originally Posted by NightTrain EX View Post
      It has always been a VAG show. If it were to return to a more VAG-centric show it would reduce much of the over crowding. How is that elitist?
      Agreed. This year was absurd with how much non-vag stuff was there. In years past it was just like fully built or super rare non-vag cars. Like a few crazy supras and rx7s or imported japan only cars. But this year there was so much garbage. I don't go to a vw show weekend to look at a bunch of beat s13/s14 nissans and a billion s2k's buzzing up and down the strip. I'm not saying they shouldn't go, but they should at least recognize what the weekend is actually about. But to be fair, those people don't cause any more issues than the vw/audi people. But I have seen them complain about and hate on the vw/audis that are there..why do they even go if they aren't interested in them?

      It might help for the show organizers to limit the vendors to vag-specific only. Like i'm not sure why there were two subarus in the infield of vendors. They could have at least put two vag cars there instead. But yeah, cutting down on all the "scenester" vendors/sponsors would probably help.
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    10. Banned seadoo2006's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 02:03 PM #60
      Quote Originally Posted by AudiHolicS4 View Post
      Well then why not ride with your friends so that the people who came down to show off our cars which are actual Euro's can get into the show! Not saying its your fault at all just when half the people i was with couldnt get into the show cuz there were 50 evos and 50 subis parked at a euro show...i just dont understand how it turned into a Canibeat show? Cant they organize there own event? Thats the end of my rant
      Or, it's called getting to the show earlier ... look, if there was no place to park because "50 evos and 50 subis" took up spots in general admission, that sounds like they were on their A-game and you were still recovering from the previous night's alcohol-induced antics.

      Secondly, they aren't allowed in the show, so stop bitching. They park in GA, the same as all the rest of you people who don't "show" your car. If you truly want to "show it off", pay for show parking and SHOW your car. Don't bitch because you couldn't park in the GA lot and got turned away. The people who paid, got in.

      I've never had a problem getting in the show when I had my GTI or my Audi and neither did my friends that went this year. I think most of you forget that people still go to have a good time with their friends. Hell, Import Alliance doesn't need to turn people away because they PLAN for the crowds and for the last 4 years, Jay and Co. haven't done much of a good job accounting for that (ie, the three hour backup getting to the school last year and the mud pits of 2010).

      I don't own a German car anymore because, to be honest, my Subaru and my Honda break less. But that doesn't mean I don't enjoy the show. I still love German cars and I still go because it's fun for me.

      Next year, try either one, getting the organizers to find a spot that can handle the show and it's associated traffic, or two, getting up earlier to beat the crowds.

      /Whine on guys ...

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      10-01-2012 02:06 PM #61
      I was down there in my E36 M3 and loved just driving around, admiring other cars. Whether that would be a VW, Audi, BMW, Merc, Ect., I can respect effort people put into there cars even if I don’t agree with the style. I agree that the show itself should be limited to VAG only. I wouldn’t dream of parking there in my car, but I would come to see the cars. Only thing I take offense to is when I hear that all the Non-VAG cars are the ones causing all the issues and acting like idiots. I think people of all car makes acting like idiots, VAG and Non-VAG. I love just hanging out with people that are in to cars and like talking about cars. I will say the R32's sound amazing cruising down the strip.

      Just my $.02

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      10-01-2012 02:09 PM #62
      I think the Convention Center idea would be the best. Don't know how big it is on the inside, but what about the possibility of Top Dawg and venders on the inside, and show cars on the outside?

      Now of course, weather plays the biggest factor in this all, but as it's been said a lot of people would much rather walk to the show than have to drive far out.

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      10-01-2012 02:14 PM #63
      So for over 10,000 people parked in 4 hrs and other trying to leave just a few complaints... Parking organization ok.. Well when you go to Wal -mart do you park sideways or put the gangsta lean on? no you probably park in the lines... ok no lines where there. But for the first year new venue not expecting 1/3 more than last year .......Well done Jay and all Volunteers hope to be there next year
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      10-01-2012 05:50 PM #64
      I guess I'm an old fart in VAG years but I hadn't been to H20 since '03 and holy sh*zer has the atmosphere outside of the show changed. It reminds me of spring break more than a car show now and unfortunately I'm not sure there's anything the organizers of the actual event can control no matter how hard they may try. I agree the show cars should be limited to VAG only but the argument about what make of car you drive doesn't make you act like a ritard. The fact that you go FULL retard makes you act like a ritard, and everyone knows you don't go full retard. In the end those who are going to act like Mooks, will act like Mooks and all we can do is hope they get what they deserve.

      As for the show itself, I got there early both days and found the atmosphere much more relaxed and had a great time. Can they improve the organization of parking, vendors, ect? Sure. Did the judge who looked to be no older than 16 ask me what kind of car it was(MKV.:R), yes. But I didn't volunteer to judge so how can I complain about his lack of knowledge? For a show that size to move locations and operate on a limited staff I thought it was great and the show is what will make me come back next year.

      To add to this:

      Quote Originally Posted by dief View Post
      Having respect for other people is one thing that should be able to define us a group of enthusiasts and set us apart from other groups. But that idea is failing as of late.
      It's up to us as a community to distance ourselves from the shenanigans of those who give us a bad name in OC and that starts with personal responsibility. Thanks to everyone who put this on and I for one plan on drinking a big glass of buck the f*ck up and volunteering next year.
      Last edited by -VDubSack-; 10-01-2012 at 05:52 PM.
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      10-01-2012 06:30 PM #65
      i thought the new spot was great the parking, as already stated needs to be fixed but thats to be expected for a first year event location. as for oc they want us to come to the convention center so they can make revenue off it, lets not kid ourselves. as for the youth of the shows im glad they come it means the show will be around for years to come. its somehting they look forward to and so do i. i remember being young i did dumb stuff it happens to all of us. also i really like that more then one brand of car comes here i would get tired off seeing a mk whatever on air with some sort of baller wheels on it. i really respect what the organizers are doing with the show cause it cant be easy to do and also for not bending to oc's politics. a show at the convention center would be lame i like the sun light and outside if it was at the center i couldnt work on my tan
      either way this was my 11th year there i think, and im glad to see it has really turned into an event rather then just a show. there are lots of shows not events. Waterfest, for better or worst, used to be an event now not so much. Events are things people look forward to shows are something that you go if you can but its ok if you dont.

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      10-01-2012 06:36 PM #66
      A friend and I were talking about how everyone was complaining about being turned away and all and he said H2Oi should do the show as an Invite Only car show. I agreed and we laid it out like this:

      Invite everyone to the BBQ. But for show day, people have to fill out a pre-registration form along with a photo of their car. If the H2O staff deems it worthy, then they're sent an official invitation that they must print and bring to the show that day to show their vehicle. This way it's a smaller amount showing and only cars worth looking at. No hoopties or stock vehicles showing that you don't care much to look at anyway. Unless that hooptie or stock car is something to talk about or really has something special going for it. The Canibeat show, "First Class Fitment" is run by invitation only and is run very smoothly. They get a great turnout. And if Shoup still wants to do Top Dawg, he can pick the Best of the Best of the Best at the BBQ as has always been done.

      Way more people would be inclined to come see what was invited and would gladly pay an entrance fee to take a look. This way Shoup can control the amount of cars that show,and then doesn't need a large venue for the show cars. Just enough for spectators. Which if he wants the campground again, he can leave the Top Dawg area around the pavilion and everywhere surrounding the stone driveway for show cars only. Then back in the woods and all the other spots for spectators and put the vendors all along the paved driveway and only allow them a max of 2 booth cars to conserve that space.

      It's just a thought, but it could really work!
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      10-01-2012 06:40 PM #67
      Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaC View Post
      A friend and I were talking about how everyone was complaining about being turned away and all and he said H2Oi should do the show as an Invite Only car show. I agreed and we laid it out like this:

      Invite everyone to the BBQ. But for show day, people have to fill out a pre-registration form along with a photo of their car. If the H2O staff deems it worthy, then they're sent an official invitation that they must print and bring to the show that day to show their vehicle. This way it's a smaller amount showing and only cars worth looking at. No hoopties or stock vehicles showing that you don't care much to look at anyway. Unless that hooptie or stock car is something to talk about or really has something special going for it. The Canibeat show, "First Class Fitment" is run by invitation only and is run very smoothly. They get a great turnout. And if Shoup still wants to do Top Dawg, he can pick the Best of the Best of the Best at the BBQ as has always been done.

      Way more people would be inclined to come see what was invited and would gladly pay an entrance fee to take a look. This way Shoup can control the amount of cars that show,and then doesn't need a large venue for the show cars. Just enough for spectators. Which if he wants the campground again, he can leave the Top Dawg area around the pavilion and everywhere surrounding the stone driveway for show cars only. Then back in the woods and all the other spots for spectators and put the vendors all along the paved driveway and only allow them a max of 2 booth cars to conserve that space.

      It's just a thought, but it could really work!
      Invite only at a VW meet?

      As a sponsor, I'd say f*ck that and as a attendee, I'd say the same. You want people to want to go to this show more, manage it better. Cripes, is it that hard to run a show reasonably well?

    18. Member 71camaro's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 06:41 PM #68
      See, I don't see that working, Alyssa, because you still end up with probably the same number of cars, just arranged differently.

      Really, the only best answer is a dedicated property with good access to 90 and 50 and multiple entrances/exits. And it needs to drain well.

      I remember last year looking at the OC airport and considering it perfect, but getting the town on-board and getting around any FAA issues may be impossible.

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      10-01-2012 06:44 PM #69
      Quote Originally Posted by seadoo2006 View Post
      Invite only at a VW meet?

      As a sponsor, I'd say f*ck that and as a attendee, I'd say the same. You want people to want to go to this show more, manage it better. Cripes, is it that hard to run a show reasonably well?
      I'd say it is if it remains in OC.

      Look at the other big shows.

      Wuste rents a full hotel in Vegas
      Waterfest has a giant facility
      VagFair hasn't outgrown York Fairgrounds yet
      SoWo has literally a whole town at their disposal.

      Then H2Oi, biggest of all, has a town that isn't supportive located by an ocean with very little wide open land. And OC has relatively horrible road systems around it.

      It's hard to run this show.

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      10-01-2012 06:53 PM #70
      Quote Originally Posted by 71camaro View Post
      I'd say it is if it remains in OC.

      Look at the other big shows.

      Wuste rents a full hotel in Vegas
      Waterfest has a giant facility
      VagFair hasn't outgrown York Fairgrounds yet
      SoWo has literally a whole town at their disposal.

      Then H2Oi, biggest of all, has a town that isn't supportive located by an ocean with very little wide open land. And OC has relatively horrible road systems around it.

      It's hard to run this show.
      Sounds to me like more pre-planning is needed. Hell, three months ago when Jay announced it was going to be at the fairgrounds I remember looking at Google Earth and going, holy f*ck, it's 1/4 of the size of Ocean Downs, that's going to be a clusterf*ck of fail. And, well, judging on people's stories, it was.

      Let's not kid ourselves, Jay & Co. have done a piss poor job organizing this show since the Cort incident. This is nothing new we keep yabbering on about year after year. Either pick a different city or figure it out, but god dammit, stop picking Catholic Schools and campgrounds and expecting everything to go smoothly.

      I've helped run a fairly large show here in Ohio and it's a lot of work, no doubt about it. But we figured out long ago that trying to jam people in somewhere that cannot support it is a bad idea. Period.

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      10-01-2012 06:56 PM #71
      Quote Originally Posted by skydaman View Post
      Agree. Va Beach wouldnt be a good idea. But I would drive to Myrtle Beach, Outer Banks, etc anywhere that would welcome us in.

      From what I have read from the Mayor, City Council, and the Police of OC they do not want the "VW/Audi group there". In fact they say H2Oi is a nuisance and isnt a permitted event. They said H2Oi doesnt submit a special event application, that we just show up and cause havoc.
      The event isn't in OC so how could he submit a special event application. Honestly, I would volunteer to do clean up after everyone leaves if that makes the locals shut up.

      A lot of the cars I saw getting pulled over this weekend weren't VAG. Even if we moved to a different location it would be the exact same havoc just different town.

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      10-01-2012 06:58 PM #72
      Quote Originally Posted by dubharle View Post
      The event isn't in OC so how could he submit a special event application. Honestly, I would volunteer to do clean up after everyone leaves if that makes the locals shut up.

      A lot of the cars I saw getting pulled over this weekend weren't VAG. Even if we moved to a different location it would be the exact same havoc just different town.
      You must be new here ... 'most' of the cars pulled over this weekend ARE VW/Audis ... just look at the OCMD Court Dockets for the next three months. Makes me giggle to see all the VWs with tickets (because I used to be one of them, hah).

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      10-01-2012 07:04 PM #73
      Quote Originally Posted by 71camaro View Post
      I'd say it is if it remains in OC.

      Look at the other big shows.

      Wuste rents a full hotel in Vegas
      Waterfest has a giant facility
      VagFair hasn't outgrown York Fairgrounds yet
      SoWo has literally a whole town at their disposal.

      Then H2Oi, biggest of all, has a town that isn't supportive located by an ocean with very little wide open land. And OC has relatively horrible road systems around it.

      It's hard to run this show.
      I agree. Granted certain spectators haven't made the situation any better, but a larger and more receptive venue location would most likely improve the show.

      And I haven't read the rest of the thread, but $20 a head is ridiculous. Arriving at the show I thought it was $20 a vehicle, which seems semi-reasonable, as parking tends to be the biggest obstacle for larger shows. I will not be paying that again.

      I've been coming to H2O since '04 and in my opinion the show quality as a whole has continually got worse. I skipped last year due to it, and after this year i can honestly say that H2O has now become an "optional" show for me.

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      10-01-2012 07:07 PM #74
      Quote Originally Posted by seadoo2006 View Post
      You must be new here ... 'most' of the cars pulled over this weekend ARE VW/Audis ... just look at the OCMD Court Dockets for the next three months. Makes me giggle to see all the VWs with tickets (because I used to be one of them, hah).
      I don't go as far as to look up the court dockets but from driving up and down the strip, I didn't see that many. If 3 years is newer than yes, I am new here. I rarely frequent vortex but after h2oi I wanted to see what everyone else was talking about cause I had a pretty bad experience.

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      10-01-2012 07:10 PM #75
      there are way worse weekend then us. :] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9WOj...eature=related
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