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    Thread: So, realistically, how do we (and the organizers) improve the show?

    1. Junior Member
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      10-01-2012 06:56 PM #71
      Quote Originally Posted by skydaman View Post
      Agree. Va Beach wouldnt be a good idea. But I would drive to Myrtle Beach, Outer Banks, etc anywhere that would welcome us in.

      From what I have read from the Mayor, City Council, and the Police of OC they do not want the "VW/Audi group there". In fact they say H2Oi is a nuisance and isnt a permitted event. They said H2Oi doesnt submit a special event application, that we just show up and cause havoc.
      The event isn't in OC so how could he submit a special event application. Honestly, I would volunteer to do clean up after everyone leaves if that makes the locals shut up.

      A lot of the cars I saw getting pulled over this weekend weren't VAG. Even if we moved to a different location it would be the exact same havoc just different town.

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      10-01-2012 06:58 PM #72
      Quote Originally Posted by dubharle View Post
      The event isn't in OC so how could he submit a special event application. Honestly, I would volunteer to do clean up after everyone leaves if that makes the locals shut up.

      A lot of the cars I saw getting pulled over this weekend weren't VAG. Even if we moved to a different location it would be the exact same havoc just different town.
      You must be new here ... 'most' of the cars pulled over this weekend ARE VW/Audis ... just look at the OCMD Court Dockets for the next three months. Makes me giggle to see all the VWs with tickets (because I used to be one of them, hah).

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      10-01-2012 07:04 PM #73
      Quote Originally Posted by 71camaro View Post
      I'd say it is if it remains in OC.

      Look at the other big shows.

      Wuste rents a full hotel in Vegas
      Waterfest has a giant facility
      VagFair hasn't outgrown York Fairgrounds yet
      SoWo has literally a whole town at their disposal.

      Then H2Oi, biggest of all, has a town that isn't supportive located by an ocean with very little wide open land. And OC has relatively horrible road systems around it.

      It's hard to run this show.
      I agree. Granted certain spectators haven't made the situation any better, but a larger and more receptive venue location would most likely improve the show.

      And I haven't read the rest of the thread, but $20 a head is ridiculous. Arriving at the show I thought it was $20 a vehicle, which seems semi-reasonable, as parking tends to be the biggest obstacle for larger shows. I will not be paying that again.

      I've been coming to H2O since '04 and in my opinion the show quality as a whole has continually got worse. I skipped last year due to it, and after this year i can honestly say that H2O has now become an "optional" show for me.

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      10-01-2012 07:07 PM #74
      Quote Originally Posted by seadoo2006 View Post
      You must be new here ... 'most' of the cars pulled over this weekend ARE VW/Audis ... just look at the OCMD Court Dockets for the next three months. Makes me giggle to see all the VWs with tickets (because I used to be one of them, hah).
      I don't go as far as to look up the court dockets but from driving up and down the strip, I didn't see that many. If 3 years is newer than yes, I am new here. I rarely frequent vortex but after h2oi I wanted to see what everyone else was talking about cause I had a pretty bad experience.

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      10-01-2012 07:10 PM #75
      there are way worse weekend then us. :] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9WOj...eature=related

    6. 10-01-2012 07:16 PM #76
      The venue wasn't bad at all, it just needed more organizing. If people had just directed cars to destinations I think the traffic would have flowed way better. I think there might have been a lack of communication and people accepting money too.

      I was actually surprised this year, I have never been asked so many times by businesses if I was "Here for the show", I defiantly told my hotel I wasn't but I got mixed reactions by restaurants and other shops. Jay made a post on Facebook that if we saw an idiot to deal with it and I saw how every dealt with it, you cheered them on for the most part. Had you booed or heckled them for being tards they might have actually stopped. I saw a guy on 45th trying to get anyone he could to do a burn out by running into stopped traffic knocking on windows, trying to give them money ect. We as a group set the standard for the crowed mentality. This post says how WE can fix it not just Jay. It's not going to be long before we start seeing blacked out dates on hotels and even rentals, I'm pretty sure that's why my group didn't get their normal rental house.
      HOMEGROWN MOTORSPORTS

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      10-01-2012 07:19 PM #77
      Quote Originally Posted by Mike.Mike. View Post
      there are way worse weekend then us. :] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9WOj...eature=related
      crowd is older so it's more acceptable, not to mention we drive euro trash according to the locals.

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      10-01-2012 07:24 PM #78
      It looks like Shoup has options:

      1. Stop doing the show altogether.

      2. Scale back the size of the event to match the size of the venue(s) available to him. Maybe invitation-only would be the way forward. Limit the show field to XXX number of cars, and sell XXXX number of spectator tickets. Like going to Ozzfest or some sh*t. When it's sold out it's sold out and that's it. Not sure what would happen when entitled twenty-somethings get pissed and decide to occupy the place.

      3. Move the event to another venue. This would seem the common sense thing to do, but common sense has never been popular. There are venues available outside Ocean City, period. Since the offsite activities IE mayhem are the main attraction to the show, H2Oi is kind of married to OCMD but it's a dysfunctional relationship at best.

      4. ????????

      5. Profit
      Quote Originally Posted by 1.9..16vTurbo View Post
      you should stick to that car your trying to paint

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      10-01-2012 07:38 PM #79
      Quote Originally Posted by dubharle View Post
      crowd is older so it's more acceptable, not to mention we drive euro trash according to the locals.
      and they have the show in town so oc can make the most amount of profit off it.... but mostly cause our cars are not american muscle. imo our crowd is just as rowdy as theres but they get away with it cause the town makes more money off the actual show itself since they cannot make money off the money spent at local bussiness.... thats why they ticket so much at h20i

    10. 10-01-2012 08:23 PM #80
      i can honestly say I have never ran into someone who didn't want the show there, i have been going for years and honestly the cruising weekends seem worse. During cruising weekend people die and it just seems way more unsafe, I have felt unsafe during cruise weekend almost every time i have been down. I don't see how they can hate us being there the city would be dead the revenue it generates that way and not to mention the money they make off of writing hundreds of tickets.

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      10-01-2012 08:36 PM #81
      Like I mentioned in "no more parking thread?"

      $20 a head is completely absurd. I will not be paying to get into the show grounds again if the price remains the same. While I still think $20 is a bit much, if they are going to charge that much... do $20 a car. This helps in two ways. alot less traffic going into the event, and alot more parking. That way people would ride together and chip in for the entry fee.

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      10-01-2012 08:47 PM #82
      Quote Originally Posted by dubharle View Post
      The event isn't in OC so how could he submit a special event application. Honestly, I would volunteer to do clean up after everyone leaves if that makes the locals shut up.

      A lot of the cars I saw getting pulled over this weekend weren't VAG. Even if we moved to a different location it would be the exact same havoc just different town.
      I was speaking of prior years... but even the campground is in the same county. Pretty much every town and county have special event permits that one must obtain if having a large event.

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      10-01-2012 09:03 PM #83
      H2O 2010 was at the Casino I believe, you need to have it there again.

      This was by far the worst experience ever for a car show. Police were blocking off the two roads off the Hwy to turn left into the show and you could have seen clear as day that the venue this year would never have held all the people. We wait in line on a highway for over an hour only to be turned away because it was 'full', that is unheard of

      Move it back to the Casino grounds
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    14. 10-01-2012 09:05 PM #84
      Quote Originally Posted by lowazzgolf View Post
      H2O 2010 was at the Casino I believe, you need to have it there again.

      This was by far the worst experience ever for a car show. Police were blocking off the two roads off the Hwy to turn left into the show and you could have seen clear as day that the venue this year would never have held all the people. We wait in line on a highway for over an hour only to be turned away because it was 'full', that is unheard of

      Move it back to the Casino grounds
      I can't remember why it's not at Ocean Downs anymore something about age restrictions and it would cause too many other problems.
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    15. Member 71camaro's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 09:10 PM #85
      Quote Originally Posted by Vrdady View Post
      I can't remember why it's not at Ocean Downs anymore something about age restrictions and it would cause too many other problems.
      Not part of their business plan...

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      10-01-2012 09:14 PM #86
      Quote Originally Posted by vr6swap View Post
      Anyone considered, even briefly, the idea of having the show someplace else BESIDES Ocean City MD?

      OCMD city gov't, law enforcement, and even some businesses around town have made it more than clear they don't want the show in their town. Simple enough.

      I'm saying their are many other resort / vacation towns on the coast within a couple hours of OCMD. Anywhere from Atlantic City south to Virgina Beach or even Surf City NC. If OCMD doesn't want us maybe somebody else would be business - savvy enough to recognize money when they see it.
      I agree. I live in Virginia Beach and there are many venues that could host H20. With the surrounding cities that are a 30 min or less trip from the Oceanfront/Boardwalk you could easily find a place to hold the show.

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      10-01-2012 09:16 PM #87
      My girlfriend and I got there at 10...I forgot to check will call on Saturday so I was fearing the worst. Turn in with NO LINE and was greeted by Jay himself. Went over to will call with no wait and was directed to the show car area and had no issues being directed the rest of the way...there wasn't even an issue forming a line of cars

      This was the smoothest H2o ever for me and I loved the venue

    18. Member 71camaro's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 09:27 PM #88
      Quote Originally Posted by abadGTI View Post
      I agree. I live in Virginia Beach and there are many venues that could host H20. With the surrounding cities that are a 30 min or less trip from the Oceanfront/Boardwalk you could easily find a place to hold the show.
      I live here, no there isn't.

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      10-01-2012 09:42 PM #89
      I like the airport suggestions. It would be interesting to consider other cities/locations, but with so many people saying they go for the atmosphere of the strip as much as the show, perhaps that wouldn't be wise?

      I'm one of the many who didn't get to see the show because of the traffic/parking scenario, and a variety of things could have made this better. While I wasn't totally opposed to parking in a field like so many did, the price that was mentioned above deterred me from doing so. $20 a head as a spectator should at least get the person guaranteed, safe parking. Since I didn't get in, I don't know about layout, but perhaps separate entrances for show cars and spectators would speed this up? Or separate times to show up? With registration online-only they have to have a better understanding of how many cars will show up. If adequate parking isn't available, perhaps a party bus style shuttle to the show grounds from OC would be not only cool but also another money making avenue?

      The other way to look at it, if you are going to charge $30 for a show car and one person and $20 per passenger/spectator, figure out a guestimate of what you'll be pulling in and use that as leverage to negotiate a new spot or even a return to Ocean Downs. For example, if you figure 1500 cars and each one of those carries a passenger, that's 1500x$50. That's $75,000 in admissions alone, not counting money brought in from the vendors. I know Ocean Downs didn't happen last year for a reason, but the show surely wasn't as big in 2010 as it was this year and I don't believe for a second that Ocean Downs would rather have 15 grandmas playing slots than put up with two days of cars in their grass for $75,000. Money talks. I bet if the crew used stats to their advantage, they'd be able to make things happen.
      Last edited by flat6turboGT1; 10-01-2012 at 09:46 PM.

    20. 10-01-2012 09:44 PM #90
      moving the show from ocmd would most likely kill the show

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      10-01-2012 09:48 PM #91
      Quote Originally Posted by 71camaro View Post
      Not part of their business plan...
      if your serious about improving this show, a sit down and serious discussion with the owner of that place is in order..
      WANTED: Salty D, Fast Bumpers, abt cup, Luckyzeee, Dub Oddity, CHUBBY ASIAN, III, Lobstrosity, Dark Demon 8v, RG3, LostBoyScout, JPawn1, Thatcher, Mr.Bungle, EuroVR6Mk3, dubtometry, Blown Wide Open, Bluers
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      10-01-2012 09:57 PM #92
      Quote Originally Posted by 71camaro View Post
      I live here, no there isn't.
      There is Chesapeake where they have the Jubilee, the private airports in Suffolk and Chesapeake, there is another place in Pungo I can't think of the name of right now. In sure the show will be canceled before its moved, but I'm just offering my 2 cents.

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      10-01-2012 10:00 PM #93
      Quote Originally Posted by abadGTI View Post
      There is Chesapeake where they have the Jubilee, the private airports in Suffolk and Chesapeake, there is another place in Pungo I can't think of the name of right now. In sure the show will be canceled before its moved, but I'm just offering my 2 cents.
      Thought you meant in OC, my bad.

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      10-01-2012 10:01 PM #94
      Quote Originally Posted by lowazzgolf View Post
      if your serious about improving this show, a sit down and serious discussion with the owner of that place is in order..
      Shoup tried to speak with them prior to 2011. So did I. I got asked to leave straightaway.

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      10-01-2012 10:08 PM #95
      Quote Originally Posted by Vr6Heathen View Post
      My only true "complaint" was the organization of cars at the show. It was a cluster-cuff, I wanted to get some nice pics of like a row of MK 1's or R's etc. but everything was scattered everywhere and looked awful. I know why they weren't all together.... for judging but it just takes away from the show.
      This.

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      10-01-2012 10:19 PM #96
      Quote Originally Posted by kingbeard View Post
      moving the show from ocmd would most likely kill the show
      Lack of a suitable venue in OCMD is going to kill it anyway.
      Quote Originally Posted by 1.9..16vTurbo View Post
      you should stick to that car your trying to paint

    27. 10-01-2012 10:58 PM #97
      I honestly hardly know anyone who goes for the "show", how you can honestly fix the show is limit the cars by having people submit and pick cars worthy of being in the show. If you can't find a big enough venue this is the only way to do it.

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      10-01-2012 11:02 PM #98
      Quote Originally Posted by flat6turboGT1 View Post
      I know Ocean Downs didn't happen last year for a reason, but the show surely wasn't as big in 2010 as it was this year and I don't believe for a second that Ocean Downs would rather have 15 grandmas playing slots than put up with two days of cars in their grass for $75,000. Money talks. I bet if the crew used stats to their advantage, they'd be able to make things happen.
      While what you're saying is logical, it wouldn't be able to work like that. The event pays the Troopers salaries to cover the event for the day, plus the city workers to come out and set up all of those cones and huge informational signs on the side of the road, plus the "rental" of that particular equipment. They pay the Staff Members, aka security, cleaning crews and the people that collect money and direct traffic...yes, I know SOME are volunteers, not all though (I believe they are an outside company...someone correct me if I'm wrong), they pay for the venue, event insurance, trophies, tshirts, signs, dash cards, advertisement, etc etc. Running a HUGE show like this is NOT cheap.

      For example, friends of mine are putting on a show that I've been taking a hand in and it is downright expensive. For $300 tshirts printed front and back, all in one color is over $1,200. Shoup more than likely buys 1,000 or more. 300 print ads, lawn signs, dash cards and the designers fee is around $550...and that's all at HALF price as a donation. I'm almost positive H2O spends a few thousand on these. Trophies, depending on quality (and the wooden plaques for H2O are a good quality) generally cost $5 per trophy (this is just an average), that's $150 for 30 trophies. And that's just for classes not separating by stock mild and wild. Shoup does Stock Mild and Wild for every class. Plus the Top Dawg cars which win CASH prizes. He has to pay for the DJ. He had to pay for the hay to be laid out in the muddy areas. He had to pay each of the judges $25. I'm sure he pays the band. The list goes ON and ON.

      I believe last year Shoup stated that Ocean Downs was out of the question and they wouldn't even talk to them because they bring in millions from the casino. It's not worth it to them to keep their gamblers away.

      Shoup also already stated that they were ACTIVELY searching for a new venue and if ANYONE knew of a location within 50 miles of Ocean City that would be substantial for purchase, to contact them so they could take a look at it.
      Believe nothing you hear, and only half of what you see.

    29. Member AlyssaC's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 11:15 PM #99
      Quote Originally Posted by kingbeard View Post
      I honestly hardly know anyone who goes for the "show", how you can honestly fix the show is limit the cars by having people submit and pick cars worthy of being in the show. If you can't find a big enough venue this is the only way to do it.
      Even though the idea of an invite only was shot down a few times already, it was also supported by a few. Even as a sponsor, it'd still be a BUSY show. You're getting QUALITY show cars that people actually WANT to stop and take a good look at. Look at the Top Dawg cars for example. Once they all arrive, people swarm those cars all day to see what it takes to be the best. You don't think that they're going to do that with show cars that are hand picked to be permitted to show their car at H2O? Sure as sh*t they would.

      71camaro, I don't believe I know your real name, but I'm sure we know each other. You are correct that it does create a different layout, but the parking situation remains the same. I think there may be a way to work it out with the troopers to allow spectators to be able to park along 50 and along Daly. Leaving space in between for vehicles with emergencies to be able to pull over. While I would personally love an entirely paved venue with enough trees for shade so we don't have to worry about mud or sunburn...it's a difficult one to pull off and I KNOW that.

      If OCMD was on board with the show, it'd be absolutely SPECTACULAR if they would allow back-in parking along Coastal Highway and redirect regular traffic over 90 to 50 and vice versa. This can be done for Sunday only and just host the BBQ at another venue for Saturday. For Sunday, it would prevent parking issues for spectators since most would just walk there or park in a parking lot around it. It would also solve the mud issues that everyone seems to get peeved over. But, we know this can't happen either since the mayor and the officials for OC hate our group more than any other. And if any of you are going to argue that and say that they "love" us because we "bring in so much revenue for them", do me a favor and punch yourself in the throat.
      Believe nothing you hear, and only half of what you see.

    30. Member GiveEmHell's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 11:17 PM #100
      If it were held in VA beach, it'd only last a year. Never been there but almost all of my friends and family have been. There are fines for cursing and spitting in public. Playing loud music while driving on the strip gets you pulled over, so god forbid any of us show up with our exhausts (or lack there of).

      We'd all be kicked out sooner than we got there.

      Face it, H20i is and should always be in ocmd.
      The strip is pretty long, well populated by businesses, and moderately smooth (save for the dip and pan shattering manhole in the left lane)

      The location was fine, just needs a more dedicated staff and better placement of the vendors.


      Now, for the idiocy.
      In my experience, I noticed one thing. All the *******s who were littering, getting INSANELY drunk, cursing, screaming, throwing ****, ect ect were younger people who did NOT drive to the show.
      They don't give a damn. They like cars, yes. They are enthusiasts, yes. But since their **** isn't there to get trashed they don't care.
      This is a very broad stereotype (I met lots of people who didn't drive their cars to ocmd who were level headed and cool) but most of them just wanted to party.

      Yeah, I was excited to come have a few beers with some people. But I wasn't out in the parking lot screaming and throwing beer cans and bottles everywhere.

      The direction has to change from getting hammered and acting stupid to wanting to meet like minded people and check out some cars.



      Also- I enjoyed seeing all the non-VAG cars but I'd rather not have them there.
      I came to see VWs and Audis, not your damn evo. (Even though it may be sooo damn sexy and fast )

    31. Member 71camaro's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 11:32 PM #101
      The best shows are those that the towns want, like Woodward in Michigan, like all the Carlisle events, and like SoWo. Somehow getting OC on board would lead this to being the North American Worthesee (some would argue it already is). But how to do that is the question.

      Being relatively OC local I can tell you this about the people here: they're very patriotic, they're very conservative, and they are staunch about buying American. That's why they make the comments they do about our cars. A large portion of locals are what we'd call "rednecks" if we were trying to be derogatory, so they have a prejudice against outsiders and those that are different (many VW enthusiasts).

      OC officials see there town as a wholesome, family resort town. They think it's supposed to be families holding hands on the boardwalk together. We all know it's really a somewhat crummy tourist trap, but they don't see it that way. So they see young, brash people acting foolish and drinking and tossing trash around and they develop more prejudice against us.

      I've said it in several threads, but their perception is reality in their minds, even if not realistic. If they were to look at this in a reasonable manner, and if we behaved in a reasonable manner, everyone could work together. That would take concessions from both sides I won't expect though. Part of the problem is that most OC elected officials are long-time office holders; they're old and they're entrenched in their ways. They won't be open to change or working with outsiders. If that changed the whole climate of the event could change.

    32. 10-01-2012 11:44 PM #102
      the GA parking was the worst for me. the massive speedbump that i scraped my frame and exhaust on, getting stuck in the mud, my lip ripping off, the mud covering my wheel wells and subframe, the parking people were all *******s, smelt like ****.. it really needs to be a paved lot or at least a flat grassland.. we know what kind of cars are showing and spectating at this event.. hosting it somewhere designed for trailers and campers to park is not ideal.

    33. Member Mk3TG's Avatar
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      10-02-2012 12:02 AM #103
      May I add that I payed way to much, on the H20i site if i remember correctly you guys said 30$ I payed 70$ just to park. 30$ on Satrday and then another 20$ ontop of the 30$ I payed online sunday. One of the event people told me that Sunday was all payed for it wasn't.. I kind of feel ripped off I had a good time other than that though it was well set up but somethings could have been better planned. hopefully it will be better next year.
      8v Society #20

    34. Member BiH's Avatar
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      10-02-2012 12:05 AM #104
      I never had problems with locals, Im not sure what the problem is. if they dont like import crowd let them be, you cant change their minds. the only thing that sucked about the show that it was hard to get to later in day. I didnt pay to get in anyway so I dont care but some better traffic flow could improve the show. the new venue was kinda cool, even with all the mud and all. I havent been at the show since 2005 and it has changed a lot. back then I dont even remember having any vendors, yet again I was never totaly sober at the show anyway...
      I do work on cars, anything short of engine and transmission rebuilding can be done. welding, custom and aftermarket as well as regular repairs. IM me for details, shop is in WOodbridge.

    35. Member RichieMK4Rich's Avatar
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      10-02-2012 12:10 AM #105
      worst 20 dollars I spent all weekend. Wasn't worth the hour or so drive (retarded traffic).

      Vendors were all too close to each other.. idk felt crowded, lost interest in taking any photo's at the show.

      oh and the staff directing traffic wasn't so pleasing..
      Last edited by RichieMK4Rich; 10-02-2012 at 12:17 AM.
      |PSN: Turbo-MK4|Book Of Many Faces|HatethewordSTANCE|18x9.5et20|Flickr|Instagram & Twitter: @Richiemk4rich|
      Quote Originally Posted by dangerkart View Post
      you usually just unzip and pull down, or so i've heard

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