Dodge Dart SRT-4?

[Swallow Doretti]

Jeep
Chrysler
SRT
Dodge
RAM
Fiat
Mopar

You forgot Abarth, which is also a brand. FIAT dealers had to apply to carry Abarth, and provide a separate showroom-in-a-showroom--including separate staff--to sell the Abarth 500.

[whitejeep1989]

^

That's retarded.

Jeep
Chrysler
SRT
Dodge
RAM
Fiat
Mopar

If they wanted to win the brand diversity race, I think they got it. At least for America. They might as well go global and start making each model its own brand, then they can have more brands than anyone in the world. Each model would now be a super model because both only have one name.

I think VW has them beat, albeit with a much sexier stable of brands.

VW
Audi
Bentley
Lamborghini
Porsche
Bugatti


Also, MOPAR Chrysler's in-house aftermarket and auto parts group. Any MOPAR branded vehicles exist purely as a pre-packaged option for all of their goodies.

[Swallow Doretti]

Any MOPAR branded vehicles exist purely as a pre-packaged option for all of their goodies.

Except that is a new thing, the result of in-fighting within Chrysler's executive ranks. MOPAR was supposed to focus primarily on maintenance parts and aftermarket accessories (and at one point, they almost did away with the brand name entirely), but now it has its own booths for auto shows, equal signage on dealers, etc.

[leaftye]

You forgot Abarth, which is also a brand. FIAT dealers had to apply to carry Abarth, and provide a separate showroom-in-a-showroom--including separate staff--to sell the Abarth 500.

Geez. I swear they're trying to ruin this business again despite having much more competitive cars. It's like they're incapable or unwilling to learn from the mistakes of other automakers.

Jeep
Chrysler
SRT
Dodge
RAM
Fiat
Mopar
Abarth

[TangoRed]

Geez. I swear they're trying to ruin this business again despite having much more competitive cars. It's like they're incapable or unwilling to learn from the mistakes of other automakers.

Jeep
Chrysler
SRT
Dodge
RAM
Fiat
Mopar
Abarth

The difference between Fiat/Chrysler and the mistakes of say, pre-bankruptcy GM is that there is little to no overlap. Chrysler found out redundant models are useless when they killed Plymouth. Not that I agree with this strategy...I probably would've kept RAM inside of Dodge and Abarth inside of Fiat.

[SSLByron]

Partially right. Viper is the first unique model for SRT. Dodge lost the Viper because Fiat/Chrysler felt there was a limit for how much potential customers will pay for a Dodge. Viper will be joined by a reborn Barracuda in the SRT line-up. I don't know if this all sound business thinking, rather than just fixing Dodge. Given the Dart's slow sales, maybe Dodge can't be fixed?

Viper was ready to be spun off before the restructuring started, just like Jeep.

The Viper's development is overseen by the SRT team, but "Viper" is technically an independent brand. You don't see it very often, but it pops up sometimes in their marketing.

[leaftye]

The difference between Fiat/Chrysler and the mistakes of say, pre-bankruptcy GM is that there is little to no overlap. Chrysler found out redundant models are useless when they killed Plymouth. Not that I agree with this strategy...I probably would've kept RAM inside of Dodge and Abarth inside of Fiat.

There are still extra costs though. Even Hummer in its heyday had issues with its separate branding and need for a separate showroom. At the other end of the spectrum, there's Maybach, which supposedly had some issues with that too. Anyhow, this is deeper than I want to get into.

I don't agree that overlap is necessarily bad, aside from extra costs of separate dealerships and HQ staffing. If engineers are shared across brands, with the difference mostly being the designers that makes each car a little different for their brand...bumpers, side molding, interior mostly. I liked the slight differences. Personally, I preferred the Plymouth version of the early LH car. With GM, I preferred Pontiac, at least until Cadillac woke up, although the time overlap was minimal.

Still though, let's go with what is there now. Less or no overlap. I agree with you that the Abarth version should be sold with Fiat as a Fiat, or at least without extra hassle and staffing. Same with RAM. I don't know what's up with the Mopar brand, but I doubt I'd like it. SRT almost seems like a nice idea for enthusiasts, but I can't see an entire brand getting by with nothing but sporty cars. Aside from the Viper, they've been going retro modern. What happens when that well dries up and they realize that Chrysler as a whole still doesn't have much in the way of designers? That's actually the biggest thing. Unless they're going to share design resources, they're going to sink again. Ideally I'd like to see them with a design house like they had in the 90's. They were the epitome of what Lutz said about looks selling cars. With those design capabilities, and their current interiors, and what seems like improving quality, they might do very well.

[Air and water do mix]

I think VW has them beat, albeit with a much sexier stable of brands.

VW
Audi
Bentley
Lamborghini
Porsche
Bugatti


Also, MOPAR Chrysler's in-house aftermarket and auto parts group. Any MOPAR branded vehicles exist purely as a pre-packaged option for all of their goodies.

You have a point, but in VWs case at least most of the brands are more than just a few markets. I suppose Chrysler is expanding their lineup around the world, but it's awfully heavy in North America. Sure, Seat and Skoda (which you forgot to mention!) aren't here, but I know Seat is in Latin America as well as Europe and Skoda is in Eastern Europe pretty heavily.

[TangoRed]

There are still extra costs though. Even Hummer in its heyday had issues with its separate branding and need for a separate showroom. At the other end of the spectrum, there's Maybach, which supposedly had some issues with that too. Anyhow, this is deeper than I want to get into.

Definitely- that's where the trade off lies for sure. I'm assuming there's some intangible benefit to be gained by going this route, despite the cost.

I don't agree that overlap is necessarily bad, aside from extra costs of separate dealerships and HQ staffing. If engineers are shared across brands, with the difference mostly being the designers that makes each car a little different for their brand...bumpers, side molding, interior mostly. I liked the slight differences. Personally, I preferred the Plymouth version of the early LH car. With GM, I preferred Pontiac, at least until Cadillac woke up, although the time overlap was minimal.

I thought it was cool to have the choices, but then you get brands like Mercury and Plymouth that have no distinct models to draw in buyers in the first place. There's literally no reason to have them. The Prowler was a cool flagship for Plymouth, but that was the only thing they had. I think Fiat/Chrysler is just trying to avoid any potential trouble areas, even though I see one brewing if Fiat expands into Dodge or Alfa Romeo territory.

Still though, let's go with what is there now. Less or no overlap. I agree with you that the Abarth version should be sold with Fiat as a Fiat, or at least without extra hassle and staffing. Same with RAM. I don't know what's up with the Mopar brand, but I doubt I'd like it. SRT almost seems like a nice idea for enthusiasts, but I can't see an entire brand getting by with nothing but sporty cars. Aside from the Viper, they've been going retro modern. What happens when that well dries up and they realize that Chrysler as a whole still doesn't have much in the way of designers? That's actually the biggest thing. Unless they're going to share design resources, they're going to sink again. Ideally I'd like to see them with a design house like they had in the 90's. They were the epitome of what Lutz said about looks selling cars. With those design capabilities, and their current interiors, and what seems like improving quality, they might do very well.

I don't understand Mopar either, but from what I understand it's like the aftermarket support brand. I think SRT will be fine, it's supposed to be the low-volume sports car brand. It makes sense to me, since its cars are souped versions of cars that came from multiple brands. I wouldn't call the Dart retro modern unless you count the name. But I see your point and I'm not worried- they'll be able to come up with a new styling language, and of course designers are going to be working multiple projects across brands. They don't have that much money to pigeon hole resources in each brand. From what I understand, the brands are most differentiated from a sales standpoint, not design. You raise good points though.

[1985Jetta]

I still think this car should have been called a Neon from the beginning, but a SRT-4 would be nice.

[eburg_DUB]

I still think this car should have been called a Neon from the beginning,

No

[xdre]

No

Yes. Although I don't mind Dart.

[eburg_DUB]

why is that? it has nothing in common with the neon.
Granted dart name is a bit silly but who cares

[xdre]

why is that? it has nothing in common with the neon.
Granted dart name is a bit silly but who cares

Easy: Because it's the spiritual successor to the Neon that the Caliber never was.

[1985Jetta]

why is that? it has nothing in common with the neon.
Granted dart name is a bit silly but who cares

Even though the Dart was offered in a sedan form, when I think of a Dart I think of a 2-door V8 powered car. When I think of Neon I think of a 4-cyl sedan.

[SSLByron]

Easy: Because it's the spiritual successor to the Neon that the Caliber never was.

[gtboost]

I will no reveal my sources but the srt dart is green lighted and being tested and developed.

1. No awd, only fwd will be offered to keep costs down.

2. Lotus has been contracted to develop the engine and suspension.

3. 2013-2014 model year it will be released. My source believes 2014 is more than likely.

4. BHP goal is 265hp.

[eburg_DUB]

Easy: Because it's the spiritual successor to the Neon that the Caliber never was.

fair enough , but if it was still called a neon It would not be sitting in my driveway right now

[WhistlerYOW]

Even though the Dart was offered in a sedan form, when I think of a Dart I think of a 2-door V8 powered car. When I think of Neon I think of a 4-cyl sedan.

So just because Dart makes YOU think of a 40 year old car, they should have named it a whole different name? I don't think many people are going to get confused like that unless they rode the short bus to school.

[WhistlerYOW]

Easy: Because it's the spiritual successor to the Neon that the Caliber never was.

The original Dart was a budget econobox of its time as well, along the lines of the Ford Falcon. So if you wanna go back far enough the Neon is the spiritual successor of the original Dart and the new Dart is the spiritual successor of the Neon. Hope your head doesn't explode.

[1985Jetta]

So just because Dart makes YOU think of a 40 year old car, they should have named it a whole different name? I don't think many people are going to get confused like that unless they rode the short bus to school.

I didn't...whatever you say. These were offered with Hemi's. back on topic now. if you want to continue this, pm me.

[WhistlerYOW]

I didn't...whatever you say. These were offered with Hemi's. back on topic now. if you want to continue this, pm me.

So what? And the new one will have a FWD Turbo SRT variant. What does a 40 year old Hemi car have to do with anything today? The world changed, and the Dart name isn't some sacred jersey thats been retired to the rafters. It belongs to Dodge and they can do whatever they want with it. And even the original Dart was an econobox long before they ever decided to make a few sports versions. Those ones only got prominent because people still drive them while the 1000s of 4 door econobox Dart sedans rusted away and got crushed years ago.

The Charger has 4 doors now, the Dart is FWD, and a black guy is president. Call it progress .