Username or Email Address
Do you already have an account?
Forgot your password?
  • Log in or Sign up

    VWVortex


    Results 1 to 21 of 21

    Thread: What's wrong with this 1.6TD that I just built?

    1. 10-01-2012 08:25 AM #1
      Hard to start and idles terribly. The IP was built by Giles and it's the modded pump. Is there something I need to adjust?

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lydoq1E9Qpw

    2. Member FaithInMkIII2.0's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 10th, 2008
      Location
      Cape Cod
      Posts
      1,577
      Vehicles
      '91 GTI TDI powered, '99 T4(soon to be TDI), '79 Audi Fox
      10-01-2012 08:39 AM #2
      Quote Originally Posted by voodoo22007 View Post
      Hard to start and idles terribly. The IP was built by Giles and it's the modded pump. Is there something I need to adjust?

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lydoq1E9Qpw
      Did you time it with a dial indicator?

    3. 10-01-2012 09:22 AM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by FaithInMkIII2.0 View Post
      Did you time it with a dial indicator?
      Nope. Would using a dial indicator make that much of a difference? I guess there goes another $100 lol

    4. 10-01-2012 11:14 AM #4
      Make sure the belt timing is perfect, then time the IP. You are allowed to take the Giles rebuild tag off too.
      Also, if you are running it on ATF and that was the first couple starts that could be some of the issue. Until the pump is completely full it will act bad for you. DEFINATELY time it with a dail indicator as it makes a huge difference. Should be timed to ~.95mm if it is the same spec Giles gave me for mine. .95mm is on the high end, .90mm was the low for me. It doesn't need a ton of advance as he builds it into the pump...as you can hear in the video, it isn't hard to be off.
      I like 1.6l and 1.9l Diesels

    5. Member
      Join Date
      Jul 14th, 2011
      Location
      outside philadelphia
      Posts
      656
      Vehicles
      '86 mk2 D/ '86 mk2 D '98 TDI
      10-01-2012 11:17 AM #5
      if your pump is 1 tooth off it can act like that; check timing, a inj pump lock or socket (deep) will do.
      when timing make sure cold start is in
      Type I's
      the "little" D
      also 962 -0 to 60 in 4 years-
      why??more than 1 wire to shut her off?? a blasphemy!

    6. Member
      Join Date
      Mar 21st, 2008
      Location
      Tacoma WA
      Posts
      145
      Vehicles
      1980 Scirocco S 1992 Jetta Eco-Diesel
      10-01-2012 08:07 PM #6
      Is it possible you used the wrong head gasket?

    7. 10-01-2012 09:21 PM #7
      thanks for the input guys, i'll check out the timing tomorrow

      i'm pretty sure it's the right head gasket, they sent me a gasket for a hydraulic at first and had to send it back for the mechanical one.

      couple more questions:

      where is the cold start? googled it up and didn't find anything helpful in the images.

      what is ATF?

      lastly, this injection pump has 2 nozzles on the fuel return fitting. Where does the second fuel return line go?

    8. Member snowyroads's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 23rd, 2010
      Location
      Seattle, WA
      Posts
      515
      Vehicles
      '83 TD Rabbit, 98 Jetta wolfy, '06 TDI Golf
      10-01-2012 10:35 PM #8
      Cold start lever is on the engine side of the pump with a "bike brake cable" thing attached to it. Theres a knob in the cabin that you pull to retard the timing for cold starts.

      ATF = automatic transmission fluid. Some people run it for different reasons or to store a pump for a long time
      Diesel>Sex

    9. 10-02-2012 01:09 AM #9
      There are 3 thicknesses in head gaskets...in either mech or hydro, still 3. If yours called for a 3 in piston protrution and you put a 1 notch then that hammering sound could be your valves hitting the pistons.
      Please make certain your timing is on first, then we maybe able to go further.
      I like 1.6l and 1.9l Diesels

    10. Member
      Join Date
      Mar 31st, 2008
      Location
      PNW - Oregon
      Posts
      5,780
      Vehicles
      92 Jetta GLI 1.6TD Ripper (VNT20 Turbo), 86 GTI (Wolfsburg Golf), 86 Audi Coupe GT
      10-02-2012 02:50 PM #10
      it is EASY to get the timing too far one way, when you dont use an indicator to set it..

      when i had my pump off my engine the last time, i thought i got it back in the same spot, but it was WAY advanced..

      DAMN, it started REAL GOOD, but it was clattery, and it had NO POWER at all..

      i marked the pump and bracket with a pencil, and retarded the pump the width of the pencil line, and that made my power come back.. yes, just a single pencil line.. the timing is really that sensitive..

      i still dont own a timing gauge.. they are the best $100 you could ever spend when you own a VW diesel..

      i still havent figured out how to BUILD my own timing gauge yet, otherwise i would have already..

      i would get a timing gauge, and time your engine to 1mm, by the procedure in the bentley manual.. then go from there.. but i bet it will solve your problems..

      if the timing doesnt change a thing, then look at head gaskets, and injector condition..

    11. Junior Member
      Join Date
      May 22nd, 2006
      Location
      Vancouver, BC
      Posts
      68
      Vehicles
      Jezebel Jetta - 1994 w intercooled 1.6TD, M-TDI build in progress
      10-02-2012 07:28 PM #11
      All that white smoke looks like very retarded timing. That would certainly make it very hard to start too!!

      This is a very very good HOWTO on setting injection pump timing:

      http://vincewaldon.com/index.php?opt...d=24&Itemid=28

      As was mentioned above, they are VERY sensitive. It isn't like a GM V8 where you can just line up the dots on the timing gears and call it a day.

      On the upside, if you do buy a dial indicator it can be used for lots of other things unrelated to engine timing. Like measuring your piston protrusion to make sure you have the right head gasket!! You DID check that, right?

    12. Member Ziptied's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 1st, 2009
      Location
      Campbellsport, Wisconsin
      Posts
      604
      Vehicles
      91 gti with six cylinders / 83 jetta turbo diesel / 98 jetta tdi
      10-02-2012 09:17 PM #12
      ^what this guy said, if you put the pump on without timing a dial indicator the pump timing will be way off, i think i picked my indicator up for about 60 bucks on ebay

    13. 10-03-2012 06:36 PM #13
      The rotating assembly and head are perfectly in time (just rechecked it today). However the IP gear is not lined up with the bracket by half a tooth.


      Yeah I measured the piston protrusion. I also took into account the amount that the machine shop shaved off the head. It was right in between a 2 notch and 3 notch. Went with the 3 notch for safety

    14. Member Ziptied's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 1st, 2009
      Location
      Campbellsport, Wisconsin
      Posts
      604
      Vehicles
      91 gti with six cylinders / 83 jetta turbo diesel / 98 jetta tdi
      10-03-2012 07:04 PM #14
      that mark doesnt need to line up perfect, ip needs to be timed with a dial indicator



    15. 10-04-2012 10:05 AM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by voodoo22007 View Post
      The rotating assembly and head are perfectly in time (just rechecked it today). However the IP gear is not lined up with the bracket by half a tooth.


      Yeah I measured the piston protrusion. I also took into account the amount that the machine shop shaved off the head. It was right in between a 2 notch and 3 notch. Went with the 3 notch for safety
      That was dumb.

      The head is flat, if it was warped you machined it flat again. The HG thickness is all about piston protrusion. If it smokes, this is your problem/poor running. The only way the head cutting could become an issue would be if they cut so much the valves would interfere with the pisons...then the valve seat should have been cut to get it back to normal. It seems like you have just enough of an idea about this stuff to become dangerous to your engine. Buy a bentley if you don't have one and actually follow it if you do. These are simple but specific engines
      I like 1.6l and 1.9l Diesels

    16. Member
      Join Date
      Mar 31st, 2008
      Location
      PNW - Oregon
      Posts
      5,780
      Vehicles
      92 Jetta GLI 1.6TD Ripper (VNT20 Turbo), 86 GTI (Wolfsburg Golf), 86 Audi Coupe GT
      10-04-2012 12:58 PM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by theman53 View Post
      That was dumb.

      The head is flat, if it was warped you machined it flat again. The HG thickness is all about piston protrusion. If it smokes, this is your problem/poor running. The only way the head cutting could become an issue would be if they cut so much the valves would interfere with the pisons...then the valve seat should have been cut to get it back to normal. It seems like you have just enough of an idea about this stuff to become dangerous to your engine. Buy a bentley if you don't have one and actually follow it if you do. These are simple but specific engines
      its not THAT important tho..

      but if you want your engine PERFECT (least smoke, best cold starts, most power) then you need the SMALLEST head gasket your engine can safely run..

      my 1.6 calls for a 2 notch (witch it now has, and runs much better) head gasket, and it runs SOO MUCH BETTER than with the old 3 notch gasket it took out.. cold starts are where i notice it most..

      but seriously tho.. you need to time it (FOR REAL)

      the engine is more picky about injection timing than the head gasket..

      retarded timing is more likely the culprit for smoke..

      i had an old 1.5D that called for a 1 notch, i was running a 5 notch... because boost..

      still started and ran fine.. prolly would have ran a touch better with a 1 notch tho.

      anyways, is what im getting at, is injection timing is more important than the proper head gasket, at this point. the differences in head gasket thicknesses are not enough to make THAT MUCH difference.

    17. Member
      Join Date
      Mar 21st, 2008
      Location
      Tacoma WA
      Posts
      145
      Vehicles
      1980 Scirocco S 1992 Jetta Eco-Diesel
      10-04-2012 05:35 PM #17
      What is the deal on the head gaskets? Are they standard for one year/engine combination? I have a 1992 eco-diesel that needs a head gasket. Were there multiple gaskets for that year/engine trim? Seems odd!!!

    18. Member Rockerchick's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 10th, 2005
      Location
      Cary, NC
      Posts
      5,339
      Vehicles
      '03 BMP 20th GTI, '84 TD Jetta
      10-05-2012 02:24 PM #18
      Giles should have told you the timing specs. He gives you that because its important to set it right so you get the most out of the pump. He told us .9-.95. .9 was much too low. Bumped to .95 and it was perfect. Get your timing all set and see how it goes. Keep us updated!

      Sent from my SCH-I405 using Tapatalk 2
      Quote Originally Posted by TM87 View Post
      VW-making mechanics out of owners since 1957.
      The project - '84 Jetta 1.6TD, 190k, fully rebuilt, Giles IP and injectors, 2.5" custom exhaust, 51mpg
      Hers - '03 BMP 20thAE GTI, 138k, 3" 42DD turbo back, Unitronic Stage 2
      His - '01 Jetta TDI, 159k. Now has 3 pedals, as it should!

    19. 10-05-2012 08:31 PM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by Glegor View Post
      its not THAT important tho..

      but if you want your engine PERFECT (least smoke, best cold starts, most power) then you need the SMALLEST head gasket your engine can safely run..

      my 1.6 calls for a 2 notch (witch it now has, and runs much better) head gasket, and it runs SOO MUCH BETTER than with the old 3 notch gasket it took out.. cold starts are where i notice it most..

      but seriously tho.. you need to time it (FOR REAL)

      the engine is more picky about injection timing than the head gasket..

      retarded timing is more likely the culprit for smoke..

      i had an old 1.5D that called for a 1 notch, i was running a 5 notch... because boost..

      still started and ran fine.. prolly would have ran a touch better with a 1 notch tho.

      anyways, is what im getting at, is injection timing is more important than the proper head gasket, at this point. the differences in head gasket thicknesses are not enough to make THAT MUCH difference.
      While I agree it isn't as important as pump timing, it will give white smoke at idle if the wrong HG is used. Mine had it, but I had a 1 notch, the pistons were not even at the bottom numbers for a 1 notch. I say that as if he ever does get it timed and he still has the issue, that is his answer.
      Giles does give specific #'s to time to his pump builds more advance than stock so it is usually less than stock #s
      I like 1.6l and 1.9l Diesels

    20. Member
      Join Date
      Aug 2nd, 2010
      Location
      Athens, Ohio
      Posts
      1,969
      Vehicles
      99 Jetta TDI, 00 Golf 2.0, 81 Rabbit pickup vr6, 02 TDI jetta
      10-06-2012 11:54 AM #20
      Stop running it dry of coolant ass!
      Athens Euroworks, http://www.athenseuroworks.com/
      Owner, mechanic, diagnostician, parts specialist, receptionist, custodian, you get the point

    21. Member
      Join Date
      Mar 31st, 2008
      Location
      PNW - Oregon
      Posts
      5,780
      Vehicles
      92 Jetta GLI 1.6TD Ripper (VNT20 Turbo), 86 GTI (Wolfsburg Golf), 86 Audi Coupe GT
      10-06-2012 03:20 PM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by Smoovedub View Post
      What is the deal on the head gaskets? Are they standard for one year/engine combination? I have a 1992 eco-diesel that needs a head gasket. Were there multiple gaskets for that year/engine trim? Seems odd!!!
      head gaskets are based on piston protrusion, like was mentioned..

      there are 3 thicknesses..

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •