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    Thread: MT: 2012-2013 Family sedan showdown

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    1. Member 2.0T_Convert's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 11:53 AM #1
      Ferrari may get all the fan mail and sell countless bedroom wall posters, but in the 66 years since its founding, the Italian automaker has sold just 130,000 cars. Total. Worldwide. Ever. Toyota, in comparison, sells roughly that many Camrys in the U.S. every five months. Honda's Accord and Nissan's Altima are close behind.

      Make no mistake: The humble sedans you see here may have to endure morning gridlock, Labrador fur, and the occasional wayward French fry, but they're the power players of America's auto landscape. Indeed, data sifter Experian Automotive says this mid-range class accounted for a whopping 27.4 percent of the U.S. auto market in the first half of 2012. (Crossovers were a distant second, at just over 19 percent.) While the spotlight-hungry 458 Italia is out there screaming and preening and generally looking as restless as Honey Boo Boo in a library, these four-doors are stoically squaring away the driving chores and eking maximum miles from every precious gallon of gas. Average Joes? Nah. They're heroes.


      Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz283x71Ttf
      1st - Passat SE 2.5 - (MT loves interior and most fun to drive despite worst engine and slowest)
      2nd - Honda Accord EX-L 2.4 - (tied for best power, hates interior, not fun to drive)
      3rd- Ford Fusion SE 1.6 ecoboost (MT loves the turbo, loves the exterior, hates interior & mediocre MPGs)
      4th- Nissan Altima SV 2.5 (best MPGs tied for best power, MT still doesn't like the CVT)
      5th- Toyota Camry XLE 2.5 (MT hated the interior)
      6th - Chevy Malibu 2.5 LTZ (Shame on GM)


      Anyways - My own take is Nissan deserves the crown. After starting this article talking about how bread & butter family sedans are so important and deserve notice MT tosses out all of the important metrics and puts focus on simple German interiors and driving dynamics.

      Passat is the clear fun to drive German car, Altima is the best family car IMHO

      Last edited by 2.0T_Convert; 10-01-2012 at 11:56 AM.
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    2. Member TangoRed's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 12:04 PM #2
      Quote Originally Posted by 2.0T_Convert View Post

      Passat is the clear fun to drive German car, Altima is the best family car IMHO

      Based on that, I'd agree. Looks like it's got the appliance thing down. I lol'd a bit at your "shame on GM."
      Quote Originally Posted by Doug Butabi View Post
      And on the tenth day of the two thousand fifteenth year, TCL finds out about rich people.

    3. Member 2.0T_Convert's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 12:14 PM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by TangoRed View Post
      I lol'd a bit at your "shame on GM."
      When I started the article with Malibu dead last my mind wandered to TCL progression from "OMG this is amazballs and will be class leader!" to "it sucks and has ugly tail lights."

      Sent from my tablet while sipping weak drinks over fancy brunch with a view

    4. Geriatric Member Turbio!'s Avatar
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      10-01-2012 12:16 PM #4
      Quote Originally Posted by 2.0T_Convert View Post
      When I started the article with Malibu dead last my mind wandered to TCL progression from "OMG this is amazballs and will be class leader!" to "it sucks and has ugly tail lights."

      I'll eat my words here. I tried my hardest to like it and defend it when it came out, but the proof was in the cramped, oddly proportioned pudding. It's not a horrible car, but it's not a very good one.

      I stretched that analogy past the breaking point, didn't I?
      IPRO Meat-Director and High Minister of Terror-Grilling

      Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Man View Post
      The Terror Grill: Part restaurant, part amusement attraction, part gladiator arena, all profit.
      ARE YOU NOT SATIATED?!?!?!

    5. Member 2.0T_Convert's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 12:19 PM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio! View Post
      I'll eat my words here. I tried my hardest to like it and defend it when it came out, but the proof was in the cramped, oddly proportioned pudding.

      I stretched that analogy past the breaking point, didn't I?
      I guess we should have taken your words about the Malibu with a few grains of salt.

      Woot another food reference.
      Sent from my tablet while sipping weak drinks over fancy brunch with a view

    6. 10-01-2012 12:17 PM #6
      Accord > Altima

    7. Member Yo Teach's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 12:06 PM #7
      Mileage according to Motor Trend:

      "Only decent" - 24.9
      "Impressive" - 26.3

      Those figures aren't really that far apart. The descriptions used make it seem like the gap is five mpg.
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    8. Geriatric Member Turbio!'s Avatar
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      10-01-2012 12:12 PM #8
      I find it appalling just how much GM ****ed up the Malibu and its intro. I usually defend GM and praise it when it does well, but the Malibu is a dud. Introducing the Eco early was dumb, making it this small was dumb, trying to maintain both it and the Impala was dumb...they just completely ****ed it this this time around. It doesn't even look that great - in person, the tails look big and cheap and the front end is too tall.

      I'd love to defend it, and I've tried. But...yeah. The Fusion looks like it costs $10k more. If you were determined to buy a modern domestic family sedan, I'd recommend that or even the Dart - theoretically a size class down but no less spacious.

      As for the rest, the Altima seems like it's probably the best mainstream, bread-and-buttah family sedan in the bunch along with the Accord, the Fusion and Passat was designed for guys who actually know what the Nurburgring is, and the rest are cynical bunts.
      Last edited by Turbio!; 10-01-2012 at 12:15 PM.
      IPRO Meat-Director and High Minister of Terror-Grilling

      Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Man View Post
      The Terror Grill: Part restaurant, part amusement attraction, part gladiator arena, all profit.
      ARE YOU NOT SATIATED?!?!?!

    9. Member GTRaavv's Avatar
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      10-02-2012 12:53 PM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio! View Post
      I find it appalling just how much GM ****ed up the Malibu and its intro. I usually defend GM and praise it when it does well, but the Malibu is a dud. Introducing the Eco early was dumb, making it this small was dumb, trying to maintain both it and the Impala was dumb...they just completely ****ed it this this time around. It doesn't even look that great - in person, the tails look big and cheap and the front end is too tall.
      Wait wut? Keeping the Impala was dumb?!?! The Malibu/Impala combo sells more than any other midsize/fullsize combo several months out of the year. Even subtracting fleet sales and the Impala sells better than most "fullsize" sedans.

    10. Geriatric Member Turbio!'s Avatar
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      10-02-2012 01:05 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by GTRaavv View Post
      Wait wut? Keeping the Impala was dumb?!?! The Malibu/Impala combo sells more than any other midsize/fullsize combo several months out of the year. Even subtracting fleet sales and the Impala sells better than most "fullsize" sedans.
      One vehicle, straddling the difference between the Malibu and Impala's sizes (say, like the Passat), would do a better job of hitting the circa-2012 midsize sedan sweet spot than both of them do together. I wouldn't have killed the Impala, though. The Impala should have been a RWD halo pimpmobile, and the Malibu should have taken over the FWD basic sedan role that it currently shares.

      I think GM ****ed up by trying to differentiate the Malibu that much from the Impala sizewise, and I think they did that to try to sell it in global markets.
      IPRO Meat-Director and High Minister of Terror-Grilling

      Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Man View Post
      The Terror Grill: Part restaurant, part amusement attraction, part gladiator arena, all profit.
      ARE YOU NOT SATIATED?!?!?!

    11. Member vdub10golf's Avatar
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      10-02-2012 01:26 PM #11
      My vote would've been for the Fusion. The Passat is not bad either but it's just too bland.

    12. Member GTRaavv's Avatar
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      10-02-2012 02:09 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio! View Post
      One vehicle, straddling the difference between the Malibu and Impala's sizes (say, like the Passat), would do a better job of hitting the circa-2012 midsize sedan sweet spot than both of them do together. I wouldn't have killed the Impala, though. The Impala should have been a RWD halo pimpmobile, and the Malibu should have taken over the FWD basic sedan role that it currently shares.
      But plenty of other brands have a FWD fullsize flagship sedan to sit on top of their midsize sedan. Ford, Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai, Kia - they all follow this same pattern. Only Chrysler has a RWD halo pimpmobile, which doesn't sell in nearly the same ballpark as the Impala. And Chevy is getting a RWD halo pimpmobile as well - 2014 SS.

      I think GM ****ed up by trying to differentiate the Malibu that much from the Impala sizewise, and I think they did that to try to sell it in global markets.
      I agree the Malibu should be on the LWB Epsilon platform rather than SWB without a doubt. But you say "****ed up" like they had a choice. Unfortunately GM had to make the Opel-developed Epsilon platform work for 2 sedans. It wasn't like they had a huge pile of cash on hand to develop a new platform and could do so in the time given. And unfortunately, the Epsilon 2 platform is not only heavy as hell, but the SWB version is too small for American paper comparison tests. They kinda of made the best out of a bad situation, and at least were able to add some length to the Impala to address the LaCrosse trunk size issues.

      However, GM might end up lucking out in this situation and not have to take a wash until a redesign in 2018. While straddling classes has long been a GM weakness, the midsize sedan class is starting to play second fiddle to the compact sedan class in the US and maybe a shakeup could be in store. By all accounts so far the 2014 Impala looks to be a real solid effort. Having a flashier Impala take over retail sales from higher optioned Malibus might work this time around, especially since the Impala will be equipped with a 4 cyclinder. Shift Impala fleet sales to the Malibu, where rear seat size won't be such a "deal breaker" and the 2 sedans could net a very healthy amount of sales.

    13. Banned WhistlerYOW's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 10:25 AM #13
      I love how TCL is always whining about how big and fat American market cars are, crying for more European size offerings, then when gm actually downsize a model everyone whines about it. Then VW makes their cars fat and more American/less European and everyone loves it.
      Last edited by WhistlerYOW; 10-03-2012 at 10:28 AM.

    14. Member TooFitToQuit's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 07:39 PM #14
      Having driven the Accord Sport, I disagree. I loved that car. Too bad it's not available in a wagon.

    15. Member IsraelGT's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 12:16 PM #15
      I think the Accord deserves the 1st place, and if I wanted something sportier it would have to be the Fusion.
      That said VW did really well with the Passat.

      Regarding the Camry, while it might deserve the 5th place, and Toyota could have tried harder, they either had a lemon or they are full of it. My sister currently drives a rental Camry SE, and it is very comfortable, quiet and well built. Sure I think the interior looks too cheap, I hate the infotaiment screen, and the exterior while OK is nothing more than a refresh of the last Camry, but from what they wrote you would think it drives/rides like a Yugo, and its far from it.

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      10-01-2012 01:56 PM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by IsraelGT View Post
      I think the Accord deserves the 1st place, and if I wanted something sportier it would have to be the Fusion.
      That said VW did really well with the Passat.

      Regarding the Camry, while it might deserve the 5th place, and Toyota could have tried harder, they either had a lemon or they are full of it. My sister currently drives a rental Camry SE, and it is very comfortable, quiet and well built. Sure I think the interior looks too cheap, I hate the infotaiment screen, and the exterior while OK is nothing more than a refresh of the last Camry, but from what they wrote you would think it drives/rides like a Yugo, and its far from it.
      As always market dollars wins any journalist attention. Why would publishers cover cars that are better in value but not paying them enough advertising fees. It's not cheap to rent offices on Madison Avenue here in NYC.

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      10-01-2012 03:01 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by Vision33r View Post
      As always market dollars wins any journalist attention. Why would publishers cover cars that are better in value but not paying them enough advertising fees. It's not cheap to rent offices on Madison Avenue here in NYC.
      Wait, you don't think ALL these companies are advertising heavily in MT or its sister publications?

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      10-01-2012 03:41 PM #18
      as much as I try to like the Altima, I loathe the rear end treatment of the car.



      The crooked tail lights kills an otherwise attractive design. There are other cars that have the "crooked tail lights", like the BMW 3-series... but for some reason, it looks horrible on the Altima
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    19. Member Momus's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 12:17 PM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by 2.0T_Convert View Post
      Passat is the clear fun to drive German car, Altima is the best family car IMHO
      I thought the fun to drive German car was the Fusion.

      "You can tell right away it was engineered by a German team," says Evans. "Reminds me of the Passat, but even more German. The ride is firm; you feel all the bumps; but it pays back in handling. This thing is built like a tank and feels it in turns, but the body is very well controlled." Febbo agrees. "Suspension tuning is really good." In fact, post-driving, all of us agreed the Fusion's steering is the best of the six--better even than our winner's. "Sportiest car in the group," summed-up Martinez.

      Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz2844gfoYN

    20. 10-01-2012 12:17 PM #20
      I'd be curious to see where the Sonata and/or Optima would have landed in this comparison.

    21. Geriatric Member Turbio!'s Avatar
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      10-01-2012 12:18 PM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by DEEJAY16 View Post
      I'd be curious to see where the Sonata and/or Optima would have landed in this comparison.
      My feeling is that they're in Altima territory - great basic family sedan, not quite a Fusion or Passat in terms of overall package.
      IPRO Meat-Director and High Minister of Terror-Grilling

      Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Man View Post
      The Terror Grill: Part restaurant, part amusement attraction, part gladiator arena, all profit.
      ARE YOU NOT SATIATED?!?!?!

    22. Member IsraelGT's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 12:20 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by DEEJAY16 View Post
      I'd be curious to see where the Sonata and/or Optima would have landed in this comparison.
      Yes where are the days of 10 car comaprisons? where is the Legacy (only standard AWD car in the class)? where are the Koreans? where is the 6?

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      10-01-2012 12:25 PM #23
      The title says 'top selling' mid-sized cars. What were the Korean twins sales figures for 2011?

      Hmm.. Not really in the market for a new car, but I would love to test drive the new Accord Touring 4cylinder M/T (Canada only ) with the Ford Fusion 1.6T 6M/T in the highest trim

    24. Geriatric Member Turbio!'s Avatar
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      10-01-2012 12:26 PM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by IsraelGT View Post
      Yes where are the days of 10 car comaprisons? where is the Legacy (only standard AWD car in the class)? where are the Koreans? where is the 6?
      Methinks this was only newly debuted cars - those have all been out a few years.
      IPRO Meat-Director and High Minister of Terror-Grilling

      Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Man View Post
      The Terror Grill: Part restaurant, part amusement attraction, part gladiator arena, all profit.
      ARE YOU NOT SATIATED?!?!?!

    25. Member rimtrim's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 12:38 PM #25
      I don't put too much stock in Motor Trend -- remember, these are the guys who said the new Explorer was terrible in every possible way, and it's been at least a moderate sales hit.

      That being said, I think the Malibu is shaping up to be a problem, which is not good for GM, since they canceled or repositioned all their other mainstream family sedans. I happen to like the interior design myself -- it's not all in keeping with current trends, but I find that refreshing. However, the back seat is going to be a problem and the MPGs are going to be a problem. And the exterior styling has cool details, but it looks disjointed, like it was designed for a different platform and then squeezed and stretched onto this one.

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