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    Thread: MT: 2012-2013 Family sedan showdown

    1. Member
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      10-01-2012 03:41 PM #51
      as much as I try to like the Altima, I loathe the rear end treatment of the car.



      The crooked tail lights kills an otherwise attractive design. There are other cars that have the "crooked tail lights", like the BMW 3-series... but for some reason, it looks horrible on the Altima
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    2. 10-01-2012 03:56 PM #52
      I recently drove a Jetta with the same power-train and transmission in the Passat and I was pretty bad IMO. The engine didn't sound good at all and was very lethargic, and the transmission was very slow to shift and almost not knowing which gear to be in. The car felt bigger than it was. It felt very much like the Ford Focus automatic. I can't imagine how much worse this powertrain would be on the much larger Passatt. If this is why MT calls a driver's car they need to get their priorities aligned.

    3. Swallow Doretti
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      10-01-2012 04:09 PM #53
      Quote Originally Posted by Shomegrown View Post
      That's all you got? You could at least try to entertain us here as the number of ****s given is still = 0.
      To be fair, it's all your worth. And if you didn't give a ****, you wouldn't have bothered to respond. Twice.

    4. Member
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      10-01-2012 04:15 PM #54
      I wonder if Malibu's low ranking was due in part to the early bad blood the Eco model established with the press. Once these folks decide they don't like something, it is rare that they change their minds, even if later versions completely address perceived shortcomings. Overall, it's a pity that GM struggles to define the class of vehicle it should understand the most. Where are the folks that made Bel Air a legend, and anything with the Cutlass prefix a perennial best seller? Hell, even the Celebrity was a best seller. I guess it's worth waiting to see how the sales figures turn out, but I think this generation of 'Bu has lost some of the magic of the last. Maybe it's time to bring Lutz back for one more fantastic mid-cycle rethink? Maybe it's time to focus some of that money and talent that's attempting to make Buick Regal into an A4 competitor on just one global mid-sized family sedan?

    5. Member Shomegrown's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 04:16 PM #55
      Quote Originally Posted by Swallow Doretti View Post
      To be fair, it's all your [sic] worth.
      Are you capable of discussion without getting butthurt and turning things personal?


      I don't remember initiating a turn down that road, but have fun with it...

    6. Member Yo Teach's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 05:19 PM #56
      Quote Originally Posted by clutchrider View Post
      So MT does a comparison on all the NEW designs/models of last years top selling sedans

      Would have been better to put all the sedans in there. The Subaru, Kia/Hyundai, etc. Considering 90% of the brands put out a new generation in the past few months it would seem only fair.

      Oh well, can't argue with the results although the Passat is much better with the 2.0T.

      My picks:

      1 - Passat
      2 - Mazda 6
      3 - Ford Fusion
      4 - Kia Optima
      5 - Toyota Camry
      6 - Honda Accord
      7 - Nissan Altima
      The rest of the cars you mentioned have probably all been reviewed in previous comparison tests and not placed first. I don't know specifically when, I don't regularly read MT. If they do not come in first, they generally do not invite them back until the next redesign or major update. Sometimes there is also the issue of locating a car.
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    7. Member 2.0T_Convert's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 05:44 PM #57
      Quote Originally Posted by Yo Teach View Post
      The rest of the cars you mentioned have probably all been reviewed in previous comparison tests and not placed first. I don't know specifically when, I don't regularly read MT. If they do not come in first, they generally do not invite them back until the next redesign or major update. Sometimes there is also the issue of locating a car.
      I think sales had to do with it. The article states it is the collection of the biggest sellers compared to the COTD winner. The other 5 cars aside from the Passat still outsell the 6/Legacy/Avenger/Sonata/Optima/Mitsu not worth mentioning.
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    8. Swallow Doretti
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      10-01-2012 05:46 PM #58
      Quote Originally Posted by Shomegrown View Post
      Are you capable of discussion without getting butthurt and turning things personal?

      I don't remember initiating a turn down that road, but have fun with it...
      Perhaps you should go five posts up and read what you wrote then. You started in with the personal attacks because I said the Passat isn't the great sedan M/T makes it out to be. And I'm sure you'll continue to beat it to death, mainly because the mods apparently don't ban trolls like you anymore.

    9. Member
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      10-01-2012 05:51 PM #59
      the new Sentra looks really good.... there is some similarities in styling with the Altima.... but Nissan did a better job on the rear of the Sentra than Altima
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    10. Member Shomegrown's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 07:14 PM #60
      Quote Originally Posted by Swallow Doretti View Post
      Perhaps you should go five posts up and read what you wrote then. You started in with the personal attacks because I said the Passat isn't the great sedan M/T makes it out to be.
      See, and that's where the confusion started.

      I commented on your statement, not you. I pointed out the irony, but that may have sailed over your head.

      Then remarking that your insults aren't half as snarky as you think they are isn't a personal attack on you. If you can't wrap your head around that, it's no use discussing further.

      And I'm sure you'll continue to beat it to death, mainly because the mods apparently don't ban trolls like you anymore.
      Wow.

      When did I piss in your Cheerios? It must have been pretty intense. It's just the internet. Take a deep breath and let it go.

    11. Member InfinitiG's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 07:15 PM #61
      Quote Originally Posted by 2.0T_Convert View Post
      1st - Passat SE 2.5 - (MT loves interior and most fun to drive despite worst engine and slowest)
      2nd - Honda Accord EX-L 2.4 - (tied for best power, hates interior, not fun to drive)
      3rd- Ford Fusion SE 1.6 ecoboost (MT loves the turbo, loves the exterior, hates interior & mediocre MPGs)
      4th- Nissan Altima SV 2.5 (best MPGs tied for best power, MT still doesn't like the CVT)
      5th- Toyota Camry XLE 2.5 (MT hated the interior)
      6th - Chevy Malibu 2.5 LTZ (Shame on GM)


      Anyways - My own take is Nissan deserves the crown. After starting this article talking about how bread & butter family sedans are so important and deserve notice MT tosses out all of the important metrics and puts focus on simple German interiors and driving dynamics.

      Passat is the clear fun to drive German car, Altima is the best family car IMHO
      I have to agree, especially after reading the article. Despite not liking the CVT, they also praised and really liked the Altima's ride and handling. It was the quickest and got the best MPGs. They loved the interior and said it had the best mix of gadgets/technology and user-friendliness (hi Ford).

      Beyond the CVT, they only knocked it for the seat color (really?) and not having as much rear headroom. I think it deserved higher than 4th at the very least.
      Last edited by InfinitiG; 10-01-2012 at 07:36 PM.
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    12. Member InfinitiG's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 07:30 PM #62
      Quote Originally Posted by Egz View Post
      Those are only with MFT, which is an option on most trims, and only standard on the top of the line trims. The car in the test did not have it.
      Yeah, and Motortrend hated the non-MFT interior in this test.
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    13. Member TooFitToQuit's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 07:39 PM #63
      Having driven the Accord Sport, I disagree. I loved that car. Too bad it's not available in a wagon.

    14. Member P-Body's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 07:39 PM #64
      Quote Originally Posted by Yo Teach View Post
      The rest of the cars you mentioned have probably all been reviewed in previous comparison tests and not placed first. I don't know specifically when, I don't regularly read MT. If they do not come in first, they generally do not invite them back until the next redesign or major update. Sometimes there is also the issue of locating a car.
      I've yet to see an Optima SX in a comparison.

      I know, I know, most people don't buy the top trim level. But just saying. I was actually looking forward to it in this group.
      Quote Originally Posted by teklord69 View Post
      Scenario: Uphill on two lane hwy. You need to pass and overtake a slower vehicle. That 151 torque won't let you. You will hit an oncoming car the opposite side if you do.

    15. Member Ross1013's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 08:26 PM #65
      Quote Originally Posted by 2.0T_Convert View Post
      2nd - Honda Accord EX-L 2.4 - (tied for best power, hates interior, not fun to drive)
      How did you arrive at this interpretation?

      Here's the article's actual text:

      Quote Originally Posted by MT Article
      For one thing, this is a conspicuously spacious sedan, with a truly palatial back seat and unparalleled airiness all around. "Very roomy," writes Martinez. "Most of the materials have an Acura-quality feel; well above the cheap plastics in the Chevy and the Ford." The seats are splendid, with a richness and plushness rare for this class. Climb aboard, and right away you know you're riding in something special.

      The powertrain continues that sensation. The 2.4-liter four and CVT deliver tied-for-best acceleration, fine observed fuel efficiency (we recorded 25.8 mpg), and smooth, refined manners. "Nice linear powerband without any dead spots," writes Febbo. "Best CVT on the market," adds Evans. "You can only tell it's a CVT when it hangs at an rpm for a few seconds. Feels like a regular automatic and makes the Accord feel quick." Ride quality is top-notch, though communication with the road is minimal. Still, such a relaxed demeanor is probably what many buyers want. Though not the quietest car in our test, this is easily the quietest Accord ever -- a huge step forward for Honda.

      The new dual touch screen's center stack borders on overly complex ("Just give me my buttons back," writes Evans). And some of the pieces look chintzy. Febbo: "The smaller touch screen and shifter have a rainbow-glitter black that looks like it was stolen from a bass boat." Those few bits look out of place in an otherwise premium cabin.

      Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz2863SqoIN

    16. Member InfinitiG's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 08:51 PM #66
      Quote Originally Posted by P-Body View Post
      I've yet to see an Optima SX in a comparison.

      I know, I know, most people don't buy the top trim level. But just saying. I was actually looking forward to it in this group.
      Isn't the limited the top trim for the Optima? These new top trim levels (limited, Titanium etc) are basically entry level luxury sedans.
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    17. Member P-Body's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 09:08 PM #67
      Quote Originally Posted by InfinitiG View Post
      Isn't the limited the top trim for the Optima? These new top trim levels (limited, Titanium etc) are basically entry level luxury sedans.
      Having seen an SX-L, I pretend it doesn't exist.
      Quote Originally Posted by teklord69 View Post
      Scenario: Uphill on two lane hwy. You need to pass and overtake a slower vehicle. That 151 torque won't let you. You will hit an oncoming car the opposite side if you do.

    18. Banned Saintor's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 09:28 PM #68
      It is the revenge of the NA engines. The 1.6 Ecotoy looks really pathetic. It does nothing that NA engines won't do better. Would be even worse if it was automatic.

    19. Member Yo Teach's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 09:35 PM #69
      Quote Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
      It is the revenge of the NA engines. The 1.6 Ecotoy looks really pathetic. It does nothing that NA engines won't do better. Would be even worse if it was automatic.
      You recycle your own posts more often than Two and a Half Men recycles plots.
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    20. Banned Saintor's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 09:39 PM #70
      Quote Originally Posted by Yo Teach View Post
      You recycle your own posts more often than Two and a Half Men recycles plots.
      Well, 2012 facts still keep proving me right.

    21. Member curvedinfinity's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 10:15 PM #71
      FWIW, the inside of the Malibu didn't do it for me like a lot of the newer GM cars too. Too bad GM. The Cruze was a great recipe, but it sounds like the Malibu did not follow in the same footsteps.

    22. Member Ross1013's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 10:17 PM #72
      I really liked the Malibu interior. Tons of storage...something like 7 compartments w/in reach of the driver.

    23. Member sforsancho's Avatar
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      10-01-2012 10:51 PM #73
      Quote Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
      The 1.6 Ecotoy looks really pathetic.
      I wouldn't say that. It is maybe not as effective a fuel-saving technology as the CVT transmission, but Ford bet on Ecoboost and is sticking with it. Both technologies will be an additional expense for the manufacturer, and both increase fuel economy. No company is forced to do both to comply with current CAFE regulations.

      There are other factors at play here - Ford could have specced variables that come at the cost of fuel economy, like higher rolling resistance tires for better handling and heavier weight for more NVH reduction (or just the use of cheaper, heavier materials) - that make a direct comparison ineffective.

      PS Making up nicknames like that make you seem very, very biased.
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      10-02-2012 03:50 AM #74
      Quote Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
      It is the revenge of the NA engines. The 1.6 Ecotoy looks really pathetic. It does nothing that NA engines won't do better. Would be even worse if it was automatic.

      [IMG]http://www.needstolaugh.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/oh-no...-not-this-****-again.jpg[/IMG]
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    25. Senior Member feels_road's Avatar
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      10-02-2012 06:06 AM #75
      In the larger picture, for anyone doing primarily a lot of city driving, one of the two larger Prii should be a prime choice. I know they are not sedans, but I don't care. Anyone not buying a practical family car just based on form factor prejudices is, at the minimum, myopic.

      The Passat and Accord seem to be reasonable choices otherwise, although I would of course pick the TDI if a lot of highway/country/suburban traffic was involved (my FIL gets pretty bad highway mileage and fills up oil he keeps in the trunk every 2nd to 3rd tank - but that's a V6).

      I don't know what the comparative industry family sedan retention rate is, but everyone I know who at one point owned a Nissan or Mazda in this category has since moved on. This is also of course true for many prior Passat owners - but at least in the latter case there is lots of evidence that the main reason for such a move (annoyingly frequent repairs) seems to become a thing of the past. We'll have to see how the 1.8T does; generally speaking, this is very mature technology for VW/Audi by now, if it were not for the exhaust cooling, mixed injection, and a few other items. Not sure I would be ready to gamble on that in the first couple of years...
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