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    Thread: Megasquirt is ridiculously addictive!

    1. Member
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      10-02-2012 04:09 PM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by r_fostoria View Post
      Yes, but the important thing is that Barry, who swore that modern cars were all disposable because of electronic components going bad and having no replacement, has been proven wrong way ahead of schedule.
      It's not polite to make fun of the older people.

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      10-02-2012 04:13 PM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by emmettlodge View Post
      It's not polite to make fun of the older people.

    3. Member MAG58's Avatar
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      It's broken.
      10-02-2012 05:51 PM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by turbinepowered View Post
      MS3 is supposed to be able to do it; you need full sequential control to do direct injection.

      Rumor has it that the next version will also be able to control CR diesels...
      Both of these are currently false and will require quite a bit of coding and supplemental drivers to handle the task. DI and CRD's both require much higher frequency and output voltage than MSIII is capable of supplying. Also both require multiple injections/cycle as well as a variable injection timing. Something MS is currently not capable of doing. I believe the MSIII chip has the processing power to do so, but if it is ever supported it is a LONG way off. The same with DBW, although the issues with DBW are a bit simpler to implement and there are a few solutions that people are in the process of working through for these engines.

      CAN-Bus which will be required to run on pretty much all newer vehicles also poses a problem that I'm starting to work on in that the MSIII CAN protocol requires a great deal of work to get to work with either automotive or J1939 CAN protocols, especially those running the 29bit extended header as opposed to the 11bit base CAN protocol. While there is CAN chips on board there is currently very little support. For those of use with disillusions of running many diesels or diesel VGT's on their vehicles, having CAN, especially J1939 support is essential.

    4. Member turbinepowered's Avatar
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      10-02-2012 06:38 PM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by ravera View Post
      Both of these are currently false and will require quite a bit of coding and supplemental drivers to handle the task. DI and CRD's both require much higher frequency and output voltage than MSIII is capable of supplying. Also both require multiple injections/cycle as well as a variable injection timing. Something MS is currently not capable of doing. I believe the MSIII chip has the processing power to do so, but if it is ever supported it is a LONG way off. The same with DBW, although the issues with DBW are a bit simpler to implement and there are a few solutions that people are in the process of working through for these engines.

      CAN-Bus which will be required to run on pretty much all newer vehicles also poses a problem that I'm starting to work on in that the MSIII CAN protocol requires a great deal of work to get to work with either automotive or J1939 CAN protocols, especially those running the 29bit extended header as opposed to the 11bit base CAN protocol. While there is CAN chips on board there is currently very little support. For those of use with illusions of running many diesels or diesel VGT's on their vehicles, having CAN, especially J1939 support is essential.
      Okay. I wasn't sure, good to know.
      Quote Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
      There is an area of a normal brain that lets the owner know the object works and needs to be left alone. Not all of us have it. It is like being colorblind.

    5. 10-03-2012 10:55 PM #40
      megasqirt is a decent standalone, but for the about the same price you could go VEMS, in my option a much better system, and you dont even need to make it yourself.
      I'm a certified vw/mazda dealer tech and I run a modification shop on the side.
      02 beetle tdi,00 jetta 2x4, 92 miata,,30 pontiac.

    6. Moderator rs4-380's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 11:14 PM #41
      standalone is fun, but be careful, it's just as easy to blow something up.
      Dave

    7. Member x(why)z's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 11:23 PM #42
      This is awesome. As a new-media artist I work with this kind of stuff everyday. I've oddly never considered using my skills like this though.... Now if my car weren't impounded by the lovely city of Buffalo due to a complaint by a neighbour who thought it was abandoned (I've been using transit, bike, etc), I'd give this a shot this weekend.

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      10-03-2012 11:56 PM #43
      I just want to go on record to say that radiator looks to be at end of service life. They're brittle.

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      10-04-2012 12:07 AM #44
      Very cool. It's giving me some inspiration to go ahead with a B20 vtec build or maybe even some forced induction sooner than later. Though in my application I won't go with MS.

    10. Member vasillalov's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 12:42 AM #45
      Quote Originally Posted by turbinepowered View Post
      MS3 is supposed to be able to do it; you need full sequential control to do direct injection.

      Rumor has it that the next version will also be able to control CR diesels...
      I am not sure what you mean by "full sequential control" here but I do know that the DME for the N54 and N55 engines has some insane logic and functionality in regards to fueling. Not only that each individual injector is controlled separately but its operating parameters must be programmed into the DME. The DME knows precisely how much fuel is going into each cylinder at any given time. It even drives the injectors differently based on combustion chamber temperatures.
      Quote Originally Posted by MAG58 View Post
      Please consider your audience before saying something sensible. 80% of TCL drivers were actually banned from Formula 1 for being too fast.
      A turbocharger is a device in where exhaust gases go in, witchcraft happens, and then you go faster.

    11. 10-04-2012 05:34 AM #46
      I just found out that lugtronic makes a PNP standalone system for my gti. PNP, like one plug and you're ready to go.

      1. plug in standalone
      2. reconnect stock ecu for emissions testing
      3. ???
      4. profit

    12. Member QWKDTSN's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 08:40 AM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by rs4-380 View Post
      standalone is fun, but be careful, it's just as easy to blow something up.
      I was very concerned about this, especially considering that my car is boosted, but I have been very careful and all is well. The Miata is pretty easy because there is a great starting map and you just run the autotune software to dial in the VE table to your particular car. I haven't touched the timing map, which is pretty conservative. I would let a skilled dyno tuner adjust the timing map.

      Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Dave View Post
      I just want to go on record to say that radiator looks to be at end of service life. They're brittle.
      I bought a Mishimoto rad, it's sitting in the corner, unfortunately I wasn't paying close enough attention and it is for an NB Miata

    13. Member MAG58's Avatar
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      It's broken.
      10-04-2012 09:15 AM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by elmer fud View Post
      megasqirt is a decent standalone, but for the about the same price you could go VEMS, in my option a much better system, and you dont even need to make it yourself.
      I respectfully disagree. Up until MSIII, the latest iteration of VEMS allowed for more functionality at what ended up being a MSIII price. With MS3x out now, MSIII is one of the most powerful ECU's per dollar out now. VEMS is still a very good system but the MS family is significantly more easily scaled to meet the end user's needs currently IMO.

      Quote Originally Posted by vasillalov View Post
      I am not sure what you mean by "full sequential control" here but I do know that the DME for the N54 and N55 engines has some insane logic and functionality in regards to fueling. Not only that each individual injector is controlled separately but its operating parameters must be programmed into the DME. The DME knows precisely how much fuel is going into each cylinder at any given time. It even drives the injectors differently based on combustion chamber temperatures.
      Exactly. Modern DI engines are running a lot of calculations and have incredibly tightly controlled injection events. Megasquirt at the current isn't anywhere near where the code required to do so. That said, the amount of demand for direct injection is just a drop in the bucket compared to the users that request a standalone for older vehicles. There's also going to have to be a significant amount of innovation on the CAN communication side if MS wants to be integrated into new cars. However the demand for that is extremely low, especially once you consider the amount of work and development required that any options you see from the MS fans is many years off.

    14. 10-04-2012 09:28 AM #49
      So are you running MS3? I wonder how many features you lose going will the original, MS1. I'm thinking about using it on a swap, but I don't want to limit myself with what I can do.

      It will be a turbo 4 if that makes any difference. I'd love to make a digital dash like you show.

    15. Member geofftii2002's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 09:43 AM #50

      Can you make it show this?

      Classicmotoringllc.com - my new brokerage and consulting business based out of a lavishly converted first floor bedroom in Allentown, PA. I am always looking for quality enthusiast cars to consign, research projects or consultation opportunities. Keep an eye on my page as you can see my blabberings about cars and other such junk in the blog section!

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      10-04-2012 09:51 AM #51
      Quote Originally Posted by slippinclutch View Post
      I just found out that lugtronic makes a PNP standalone system for my gti. PNP, like one plug and you're ready to go.
      Thanks.....Just what I needed, another excuse to spend money..... It is temping indeed. They do have it for Mk3, and MK4 aplications, wonder if they have this for Digi 1. It does not mention if they do a la carte programing.
      Quote Originally Posted by Preppy View Post
      On a scale from flaming bag of dog poop to drunken sex with a hot stripper... your car is a case of herpes from a girl you picked up at wal mart.
      Quote Originally Posted by Time for a GTI View Post
      Banging a hooker will make the wasps go away? I'm off to find a bee's nest. BRB.

    17. Member Old Windy's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 09:55 AM #52
      Quote Originally Posted by emmettlodge View Post
      Your anime prowess is lost on me. I only watched Inspector Gadget until I was 6 or so, then I decided TV was stupid and haven't touched one since
      Well I would not blame you after watching the Go Go Gadget live movie..... But still try Initial D, there is more to anime than giant appendages and tentacles and more b88bs than body into it. Not that there is nothing wrong when girls decide to do cosplay.....
      Quote Originally Posted by Preppy View Post
      On a scale from flaming bag of dog poop to drunken sex with a hot stripper... your car is a case of herpes from a girl you picked up at wal mart.
      Quote Originally Posted by Time for a GTI View Post
      Banging a hooker will make the wasps go away? I'm off to find a bee's nest. BRB.

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      10-04-2012 10:16 AM #53
      Quote Originally Posted by geofftii2002 View Post
      Can you make it show this?

      No, because he's not running a Motec exhaust.

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      10-04-2012 10:45 AM #54
      so did the circuit boards come pre-soldered and you just had to connect the jumper wires, or did you need to also solder in every resistor, diode, capacitor, ect?

    20. 10-04-2012 10:59 AM #55
      Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkEnergist View Post
      That's pretty awesome. Are you Asian? Do not attempt if not Asian.
      ....but what if you are only half asian?

    21. Member QWKDTSN's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 11:07 AM #56
      Quote Originally Posted by BltByKrmn View Post
      No, because he's not running a Motec exhaust.
      This

      Quote Originally Posted by sirswank View Post
      so did the circuit boards come pre-soldered and you just had to connect the jumper wires, or did you need to also solder in every resistor, diode, capacitor, ect?
      It comes as a kit like this:



      It's a bare circuit board and you have to solder in every resistor, etc. They include every part in clearly labeled baggies for you to build a fully featured board. You can choose not to populate every single circuit on the board if you know your vehicle won't need it (I believe there was only one circuit that I didn't bother with because I knew it didn't apply to my car, but I built everything else just in case I make future modifications).

      The circuit board is clearly labeled with the resistor/capacitor numbers and all you have to do is bend the legs and solder them in.

      There are two circuit boards, the main board and a second board with the vehicle ECU connector on it which is then soldered to the main board by the jumper wires. There are instructions online for all of the vehicles they support which tell you where to solder the jumper wires so that your car's existing wiring will be properly connected to the circuit board.

      All in all it took me a solid weekend before I was ready to fire the car for the first time. But with the base map loaded it fired up on the first crank

    22. Member Egz's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 12:07 PM #57
      Thats something I've always wanted to do. One of my large goals I had for the Focus was ITBs, which would require a conversion to speed-density, and Megasquirt was looking like the best option for that. Shame too, since the Focus ECU with SCT was pretty awesome in itself.

    23. Member QWKDTSN's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 12:14 PM #58
      I had my Paypal account primed and ready to buy a set of Jenvey ITBs through a group buy but chickened out at the last minute.

      At the time the Miata was my only vehicle (I have a Jeep doing daily duty now) and the thought of not having any vehicle at all for an extended period of time while I tried to figure out the ITB setup, and losing the supercharger power, made me decide against it. I live in Puerto Rico and don't speak enough spanish to take advantage of the tuning culture down here so getting parts and assistance is difficult.

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      10-04-2012 12:43 PM #59
      Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkEnergist View Post
      That's pretty awesome. Are you Asian? Do not attempt if not Asian.
      damn near sig worthy
      Keep Calm & Chive On

      FKA gti_r_done

    25. Geriatric Member ValveCoverGasket's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 01:10 PM #60
      Quote Originally Posted by corradoswapT View Post
      I ran megasquirt for about 5 years and finally got sick of retunning every 4 months as the seasons changed. plus with all the elevation changes around Utah it just wasnt practical. It works very well for race aplications but as a daily driver, forget it! I just switched to obdII and called it a day!
      theres real time baro correction to compensate for all of that. it requires a fair bit more tuning (as more things need to be closed loop) in order to get things working year round, but it is doable. most people dont bother, or cant afford to pay someone else, to tune it properly for a year-round daily driver.

      Quote Originally Posted by turbinepowered View Post
      Rumor has it that the next version will also be able to control CR diesels...

      i spoke with B&G when they were in seattle about this, and last i heard it was still only running with wall-power. the trick in controlling diesel injectors is the power required to make the things pop, and i have my doubts that thatll get sorted anytime soon. theres also a few things you need to know flow-wise about each injector in order to make things work properly/smoothly.
      the circuit design required is also pretty intense, and a lot of care has to be taken to avoid noise... but who knows, maybe theyll surprise us. it would be fantastic if they did come out with something though


      Quote Originally Posted by ravera View Post
      Up until MSIII, the latest iteration of VEMS allowed for more functionality at what ended up being a MSIII price. With MS3x out now, MSIII is one of the most powerful ECU's per dollar out now. VEMS is still a very good system but the MS family is significantly more easily scaled to meet the end user's needs currently IMO.



      Quote Originally Posted by QWKDTSN View Post
      I had my Paypal account primed and ready to buy a set of Jenvey ITBs through a group buy but chickened out at the last minute.

      At the time the Miata was my only vehicle (I have a Jeep doing daily duty now) and the thought of not having any vehicle at all for an extended period of time while I tried to figure out the ITB setup, and losing the supercharger power, made me decide against it.
      probably a good call, getting ITBs tuned for daily driving can be a bit finicky, especially if its your first time tuning standalone.



      /ms fanboi, since the "early" days

    26. Member QWKDTSN's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 02:16 PM #61
      Yep, it would have been my first time tuning standalone and my first time working with ITBs. I figured it was going to be a MASSIVE headache and wisely decided to stay away... for now.

      I would still like to build an ITB car in the future now that I have some experience

    27. Geriatric Member ValveCoverGasket's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 02:20 PM #62
      Quote Originally Posted by QWKDTSN View Post
      Yep, it would have been my first time tuning standalone and my first time working with ITBs. I figured it was going to be a MASSIVE headache and wisely decided to stay away... for now.

      I would still like to build an ITB car in the future now that I have some experience
      id highly recommend it, the sound is addictive!
      a few weeks ago i tuned an ms'd 20v 4AGE toyota rally car with ITBs and trumpets on the dyno, and i think the intake noise was almost as loud as the exhaust

      blurry pic..

    28. Member QWKDTSN's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 02:23 PM #63
      Hnnnnngh

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      10-04-2012 03:58 PM #64
      I'll be building myself a MS system once I get going on my mk3 build, and I cant wait to get into it, but it's a ways out still

      One thing to note with assembling boards like this is that you need a decent soldering iron / station. You don't want to attempt this with a $5 soldering iron with a tip the size of a pencil eraser. You need something that can maintain a set temp, and that has a small tip for working with small components
      Check out my Garage build thread 2008.5 GTI 2.0 TSI 6MT / APR K04 V3.1, APR IC, CTS 3" turbo back, Carbonio full intake, GFB DV+, BSH TB pipe, SB Stg2 Endurance clutch, BSH mounts, DG Shortshifter, FFM bracket bushings, Forge big knob, Koni coils, Coolingmist CMGS Meth injection, USRT spacer (DO3 & Snow 100 nozzles), 19" Miro stp3's, Centric rotors, Stoptech pads and TyrolSport bushings

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      10-04-2012 03:59 PM #65
      I soooo want to give the Fiat 126 the MSnS treatment. And at the same time I'd love to go the Big Carb route. I guess at the end both will cost me the same, but a small two-cylinder 80ies Fiat from Poland with electronic injection would be amazing
      Fiat 126 bis build thread here. Error 404: 0-60 not found.
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    31. Geriatric Member ValveCoverGasket's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 04:02 PM #66
      Quote Originally Posted by Slayer View Post
      One thing to note with assembling boards like this is that you need a decent soldering iron / station. You don't want to attempt this with a $5 soldering iron with a tip the size of a pencil eraser. You need something that can maintain a set temp, and that has a small tip for working with small components
      a good call the entry level weller stuff is a good cheap investment if youre going to be getting into building this sort of stuff.

      most of the problems i see with boards themselves are due to sloppy assembly, or improper installation.
      its also important to note that if you dont know where i wire goes... check the manual before connecting it!

    32. 10-04-2012 08:12 PM #67
      Quote Originally Posted by ravera View Post
      I respectfully disagree. Up until MSIII, the latest iteration of VEMS allowed for more functionality at what ended up being a MSIII price. With MS3x out now, MSIII is one of the most powerful ECU's per dollar out now. VEMS is still a very good system but the MS family is significantly more easily scaled to meet the end user's needs currently IMO.



      Exactly. Modern DI engines are running a lot of calculations and have incredibly tightly controlled injection events. Megasquirt at the current isn't anywhere near where the code required to do so. That said, the amount of demand for direct injection is just a drop in the bucket compared to the users that request a standalone for older vehicles. There's also going to have to be a significant amount of innovation on the CAN communication side if MS wants to be integrated into new cars. However the demand for that is extremely low, especially once you consider the amount of work and development required that any options you see from the MS fans is many years off.

      I tried to word what I typed in objective way, as I figured someone would disagree with me, and really at the end of the day they will both get the job done... I went vems mostly because one of the owners lives about a hour from me, and has been nothing but helpful and does dyno tuning in house. kinda nice to have the guy that designed the system's phone number.
      I'm a certified vw/mazda dealer tech and I run a modification shop on the side.
      02 beetle tdi,00 jetta 2x4, 92 miata,,30 pontiac.

    33. Member turbinepowered's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 10:04 PM #68
      Quote Originally Posted by lorge1989 View Post
      So are you running MS3? I wonder how many features you lose going will the original, MS1. I'm thinking about using it on a swap, but I don't want to limit myself with what I can do.

      It will be a turbo 4 if that makes any difference. I'd love to make a digital dash like you show.
      You will lose a TON of functionality comparing MS1 to MS3.
      Quote Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
      There is an area of a normal brain that lets the owner know the object works and needs to be left alone. Not all of us have it. It is like being colorblind.

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      10-04-2012 10:21 PM #69
      I only used megasquirt once for a VW about 10 years ago. I built an old school bread board supporting 8 x 8 windows of resolution for the fueling, and an MSD box for the ignition.

      A lot of fun, but I'm OCD when it comes to 'optimizing', so I found myself saving files for different mods, elevations, weather, octane of gas, etc.

      It got silly after awhile...

    35. Geriatric Member ValveCoverGasket's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 11:07 PM #70
      Quote Originally Posted by Crash6 View Post
      A lot of fun, but I'm OCD when it comes to 'optimizing', so I found myself saving files for different mods, elevations, weather, octane of gas, etc.
      easy to do with closed loop AFR and idle. no need to keep adjusting anything.

      also, for you higher elevation folks the real time baro correction is a must...

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