Tell me about the 2nd Generation Grand Cherokee

[BLK9GEN]

I ended up taking a 2004 Limited for a spin over the weekend. I was quite surprised at the amount of vehicle for the money (asking $8500 with a 90 warranty/guarantee). It was in great shape and still drove like new (no noticable rattles/buzzes), great V8 sound, smooth highway ride, and lots of (still functioning) feature content: heated memory seats, adjustable pedals, auto climate control, moonroof.

So, aside from abysmal fuel economy, what can you tell me about these bad boys? Should I run the other way or is this a decent used car option? I've always liked the 2nd gen GC and felt in many ways the 3rd Gen was a step back, especially the interior plastics.

Not the one I drove, but very similar:

[volkstyle]

Mine is the 4.0 and I love it. 98k and everything works no CEL and also drives amazing. A few noises here and there but nothing serious, and the interior is perfect.

[200HP4dr]

Simliar to the ZJ, the WJ has been known to have trans issues. However, in regards to drive-ability, its less of a truck than the ZJ and more of a refined SUV. The way they drive is way better than the comparable Explorer, Blazer and 4Runner, at least when they came out in 1999.

Its way quieter on the road, and just has less wind noise than its predecessor. I've seen an inordinate amount of 4.0's with bottom end problems relative to other rigs with the 4.0 in them, but you're looking at a 4.7, right? The 4.7 also has some issues too, but I don't know the source of them, so perhaps another poster can help out on this.

Nice trucks, but the softened appearance compared to the ZJ has always kept them off my radar. However, they are nicer than the generation that came after them, at least on the inside.

Chris

[BLK9GEN]

Correct, I'd be most interested in a late model 2003-2004 Limited/Overland which comes w/ the High Output 4.7l V8. I was wondering about the automatic in these (a typical Chrysler Co. weak spot). From what I understand they were originally designed to be the first 6 speed automatic in a production car, but the transmission doesn't use all of the gear ratios.

Description from Wiki:

The 45RFE and 545RFE automatic transmission in the WJ was notable. It included three planetary gear sets rather than the two normally used in a four-speed automatic. This gave it six theoretical speeds, and it would have been the first six-speed transmission ever produced in volume, but it was programmed to only use five of these ratios. Four were used for upshifts, with a different second gear for downshifts. Although five of the six ratios were used, Chrysler decided to call it a "4-speed automatic". In 2001, the programming was changed to make use of all six ratios. Rather than have six forward gears, the transmission was programmed to act as a five-speed with the alternate second gear for downshifts. The rpm at 70 miles per hour (110 km/h) on a 545RFE is 2000 rpm, 200 rpm less than the 45RFE programming. 1999 and 2000 model year WJ owners can have their 45RFE transmission's programming flashed to enable the extra gear as both transmissions are physically the same. The 42RE 4-speed automatic remained the transmission for the Inline 6 engine. It had slight changes from the previous model Grand Cherokee.

[deucestudios]

Throw a tow bar on the back, so your gas tank doesn't explode.

The WJ is a lot of bang for the buck, initially. You will get abysmal gas mileage, and you will run through front end parts fairly quick (V8 WJs have most of the same suspension/axle parts as the much lighter XJ Cherokee).

There is a large forum base for them though, so if you turn your own wrenches you won't be hit too hard with the repair bills.

[Cubster]

Wife is on her second one and both have been great vehicles. First was a '99 4.0l/auto 2wd.....nothing but regular maintenance up to 196k when we sold it to get her '04 Limited. only issue at 143k is the actuated doors on the automatic climate control. Yesterday I changed the oil, tire rotation, transmission fluid exchange....rear brakes finally wore out too. . Ours was well taken care of and we have continued that practice.

[clutchrider]

Father has one. It's a Laredo with the 4.0, leather, heated seats, 4WD, etc. Good car, runs well. He is looking to replace it though for something more like a Wrangler or a convertible even.

I think his has only like 70-80k on it and it's a 2003.

[Fritz27]

I have an 01 4.7 and it's got abysmal gas mileage but other than that it's been a beast. The AC also screwed up and is a common problem that's a when, not if proposition so I'd have that checked out too.

[TangoRed]

Simliar to the ZJ, the WJ has been known to have trans issues. However, in regards to drive-ability, its less of a truck than the ZJ and more of a refined SUV. The way they drive is way better than the comparable Explorer, Blazer and 4Runner, at least when they came out in 1999.

Correct, I'd be most interested in a late model 2003-2004 Limited/Overland which comes w/ the High Output 4.7l V8. I was wondering about the automatic in these (a typical Chrysler Co. weak spot). From what I understand they were originally designed to be the first 6 speed automatic in a production car, but the transmission doesn't use all of the gear ratios.

Description from Wiki:

All I can add is that you shouldn't have issues with the 4.7L's tranny. And yes, it's a strange but robust transmission.

EDIT: How could I forget? Please make sure that car has gotten it's HVAC blend door fixed. It's quite pricey to fix when, not if, it fails.

[200HP4dr]

Well in that case, here's a really nice one. Too bad the seller thinks it won't last.

http://akroncanton.craigslist.org/cto/3311117973.html




Chris

[TangoRed]

Well in that case, here's a really nice one. Too bad the seller thinks it won't last. Chris

You have the 545RE? May I ask what's wrong with it? My dad had a 2000 with 20k+ mi on it and I used peruse the forums a lot during that time. Outside of faulty speed sensors wreaking some havoc on the shift quality of the tranny, I didn't see anything.

[200HP4dr]

You have the 545RE? May I ask what's wrong with it? My dad had a 2000 with 20k+ mi on it and I used peruse the forums a lot during that time. Outside of faulty speed sensors wreaking some havoc on the shift quality of the tranny, I didn't see anything.

No. I've never owned one. Just had a couple friends with the 4.0 and the the 4 speeds behind it. One had a very expensive failure after 80k miles and the other had a marginally expensive one at 130k.

As for the pic I posted, that Jeep is beautiful. I think they drive great, but after having dealt with so many ZJ trans failures, you can't fault me for being cautious!

Chris

[NoXenons]

Avoid H.O. 4.7!

[Spell Check Desk]

No. I've never owned one. Just had a couple friends with the 4.0 and the the 4 speeds behind it. One had a very expensive failure after 80k miles and the other had a marginally expensive one at 130k.

As for the pic I posted, that Jeep is beautiful. I think they drive great, but after having dealt with so many ZJ trans failures, you can't fault me for being cautious!

Chris

Most of the ZJ trans failures I've seen, there was no service history whatsoever. No surprise it goes boom then!

[neu318]

I used to have a 2000 laredo 4.0, parents have a 2001 limited 4.0. it's great I had no problems with mine other than the tail lights are garbage. Bulb holder is crap, always seem to have a bulb out. Readjusting the bulb holder usually gets the bulbs working again. On my parents '01 engine had problems I think the head needed a rebuild ( i forget) A/C took a dump a few times ( repairs are expensive) A/C is fixed now but Heat no longer works. Power seats don't adjust completely anymore. Hazard relay took a dump now flashers and signals don't work. Parking brake cable that leads to the parking brake handle broke off. There is something wrong with the steering strut I think that's what is called, whenever you brake hard steering shakes left and right. Other than that it's been a good car I believe there are 157k miles on it.

[TangoRed]

No. I've never owned one. Just had a couple friends with the 4.0 and the the 4 speeds behind it. One had a very expensive failure after 80k miles and the other had a marginally expensive one at 130k.

As for the pic I posted, that Jeep is beautiful. I think they drive great, but after having dealt with so many ZJ trans failures, you can't fault me for being cautious!

Chris

Gotcha, that makes sense. The 4.0 models use the same transmission as the ZJ, which is a completely different transmission than the 4.7 V8 models.

Definitely understand your hesitation though.

[BLK9GEN]

Avoid H.O. 4.7!

Care to elaborate?

[200HP4dr]

Gotcha, that makes sense. The 4.0 models use the same transmission as the ZJ, which is a completely different transmission than the 4.7 V8 models.

Definitely understand your hesitation though.

That is good to know. Crap. That puts them back on my radar.

Chris

[NoXenons]

Care to elaborate?

4.0 & regular 4.7 are more reliable.

[That1njguy]

As previously mentioned, the automatic blend doors on the heating/AC have a history of taking a dump. If you don't turn your own wrenches, it could be expensive to fix.

Since there were so many of these made, take your time and find a non limited/overland V8 if this repair bothers you. Its sounds like you're already accepting the poor mileage.

Check out this site for better insight: http://www.jeepforum.com/

[nstevic01]

Our 2001 4.0 2wd is about to hit 170,000 miles with just regular maintenance. Great SUV and we constantly see about 19-20 MPG from it. The interior is solid and looks almost new, really couldn't ask for more in a SUV.

Not sure on the reliability on the V8's though.

[BLK9GEN]

It would seem that most people here have the 4.0...is the H.O. V8 known to be problematic? I just don't see much of a downside given the huge power difference as both seem to get poor real-world MPGs. The V8 just sounds sooooo much better IMO.

[deucestudios]

4.0 & regular 4.7 are more reliable.

That's quite the generalization.

If you're commenting that the 4.0L I6 is more reliable than the 4.0 H.O. I6, you're wrong.

4.0L was the marking used prior to 91, which is commonly called a Renix 4.0L, other than the closed cooling system, the motor isn't bad. It doesn't make quite as many horses as the 91-99 motors with the 7120 or 0630 cylinder heads, these were the "High Output" 4.0L motors, a name that first showed up on the YJ Wrangler.

The later coil on plug motors had the 0331 head, which carries a bad rap online, but doesn't exploded nearly as much as the internet would make you think.

[rabbitlvr]

Just got rid of a 2003. Great vehicle, mechanically sound and reliable engine (4.0) but after about 140k everything kinda fell apart. Passanger seat motor went out, the wire on the driver side window regulater snapped, a switch gate under the dash for the AC/Heat needed replacement (very common problem to my understandment) and transmission needed replacement. all within a 2 month spand. I'm sure more was to come! When it comes to any car the less options the less there is to break. Especially Chrysler built.

[NoXenons]

That's quite the generalization.

If you're commenting that the 4.0L I6 is more reliable than the 4.0 H.O. I6, you're wrong.

Avoid H.O. 4.7!

_

[Cousin Eddie]

I don't have much to say that hasn't already been said.

Among several Jeep 4.0L's i've owned two ZJ's personally (currently have 1) and my parents had 2 of them when I was a kid as well. I favour the 4.0L from a reliability/simplicity point of view. It's not that the 8's are "bad" engines, I just like having a little more room under the hood to work with and I know the 4.0's really well and have tons of parts.

The WJ (2nd Gen) is essentially the same vehicle mechanically/electronically. I will be shopping these soon as a replacement for my GF's daily. If you stay on top of your fluids they aren't THAT bad, yes the transmissions have a reputation as being junk but that's mostly due to lack of maint.

Electrical is what it is, it's Chrysler 90's stuff. If you can deal with those few headaches and are slightly mechanically inclined they're tough and reliable vehicles that are pretty comfortable.

[BLK9GEN]

No Xenons:

You still haven't elaborated as to why the 4.7 H.O. engine is to be avoided. I'm honestly curious what you are basing this on since I can't find much to support your stance. I appreciate any and all feed back, as long as you're willing to share what you're basing your opinion on.

From JeepForum.com (under the "Ultimate WJ Grand Cherokee Buyer's Guide" thread):

The 4.7L High Output was introduced in 2002 as standard equipment on Overland models, special order on Limited models. It was not available on Laredo models, but some of the 2004 Rocky Mountain and Freedom edition models had the 4.7HO as a special order option.

The V8 High Output adds a ton of upgraded hard parts to the standard v8, bumps the compression ratio up to 9.7:1, adds a forged crank, and makes an extra 30hp/30ft-lbs of torque. The nice thing is that it makes the extra torque EVERYWHERE in the power band, not just up high. You'll be able to feel a difference right off of idle.

In addition to the forged crank, the pistons, rods, bearings, heads, valves, intake manifold, fuel injectors, airbox, air plenum, intake tube, and spark plugs were also changed. The ECU was also modified and the engine is equipped with 2 knock sensors to allow peak performance with higher octane fuel.

As for maintenance, the HO is no worse than the standard v8 and only has a few unique maintenance items: spark plugs, air filter, oil. The rest of the different parts are not maintenance items and should never fail in normal usage.

Plus, with the V8 you get a more robust automatic:

The V8 got the much-stronger 45RFE (and later, 545RFE) transmission which is still used today in the 390hp Hemi Ram. These rarely ever fail. In addition, they added a Dana 44a rear end which is not perfect, but is much stronger than the Dana 35 in the I6 models.

[BLK9GEN]

Bump

[PeanutGallery]

I've owned two WJs - a 2000 and then a 2002, both Limited/4.7L/4wd (Quadradrive) models. I bought the 2k model with something like 60k miles on it and sold it about a year later @ 75k to get back into a sporty car (an Infiniti G35 coupe 6MT). The Infiniti turned out to be a lemon and I found the much-lower-mile 2002 version (27k miles). I ended up keeping the 2nd one for about 3 1/2 years, during which I added about 55k to it.

I think my first one was pretty reliable - no major expenses other than keeping up with all the differential fluid changes required by the QD 4wd system - but of course I didn't keep it very long. It did have a PCM failure that was fortunately covered under the powertrain warranty, right before it expired. The 2nd one had a couple more issues over the years - the dreaded HVAC blend door failure was the biggie (about $1200 to fix at the dealer - plastic gear governing vented-air temp strips out and sends warm air to one side and cool to the other), and the power steering gear went south around the same time. There might've been a couple other minor things.

I still think very highly of those Jeeps - and in fact I find myself looking at them on CL a lot as a potential 3rd vehicle to tow my utility trailer at some point. My wife would kill me though - she has a very biased opinion of their maintenance and upkeep requirements, as well as perceived reliability. I think that's mainly b/c the "regular" services were fairly intensive (diffs @ 15k, trans flush @ 30k, etc.) and the repairs were pretty major as indicated above. I'd love to find a late Overland that hasn't been run ragged, but I'd go into it knowing that expensive repairs may be necessary sooner rather than later.

As a broad generalization, I would say that the drivetrain is pretty solid but the electronics are suspect, which is consistent with above. A lower-spec WJ with manual HVAC (either drivetrain) would probably be the best bet reliability-wise...

I loved the power of the V8, and I didn't even have the HO version. It was reasonably quick and sounded good, though it was definitely thirsty. I think I averaged around 14-15 mpg for the most part - I may have gotten closer to 18-19 on the highway but that was rare. The Z71 Suburban that replaced the 2nd WJ got about the same gas mileage, despite being 50% larger.

I took my first one offroad a few times and was always very pleased with how well the Quadradrive system performed. The 2nd one stayed on-road pretty much its whole life (I had gotten married and was a little more sensible in how I treated my DD).

If you're looking for facts on features, option packages, and things of that nature, be sure to check out wjjeeps.com as a good resource. I also frequently perused the forums @ JeepsUnlimited.com and JeepForum.com - I gather the latter has become the better of the two, but I'm not active enough on either one nowadays to know one way or the other.

[DrewDub2.0]

Anymore info out there? Major problems?

Looking to get an SUV for the wife and 2004s seem like solid trucks for the money. Interior appears to wear much better than newer WKs.

[92skirmishgti]

Very solid truck and very capable off road, I own a 02 GC Overland and I have no complaints other than 13mpg, but that might be due to my 8" lift and bigger tires.


I love mine!

[Impeccable]

I see them go for dirt cheap around here i wouldnt pay more than 5-6k for a clean one

[Dubstatic]

what years did the 4.0 have head gasket issues?

[DrewDub2.0]

From what I have gleaned on jeepforum.com, it looks like 1999-2002 had more issues than the last two years.

It seems the bigger issue with the 4.0 is the transmission paired with it.

[Aonarch]

Don't get rear ended.

I had an '01? I loved it 4.0 Laredo.