Any worse ergonomics fail than the GM hazard switches from the 1980s?

[Yo Teach]

The silly stupidity of french design.

FTFY

The French are weird.

[dopaz]

What?? Those keys were awesome! Especially the all-metal ones, without the plastic ends. They were short, simple, and easy to tell apart.

Why should you need to tell them apart? Why have two different keys at all? A single key for a single car. I can't believe it took GM until the 1990's to fix that ergonomic fail. And, they held onto the dual key setup despite customer preference:

GM issues one key that operates the doors and trunk, and a second key for the ignition, despite research indicating that customers prefer a single key.

Toyota had single keys that could be inserted either way since the 1970's. VW, at least since the 1980's (my '84 Rabbit had a single symmetric key). GM / Ford held on to the dual key setup for decades.

[Woodski]

Also when airbags first came out and the horn was moved to the little buttons on the sides of the steering wheel (I think the Aveo still did this until like last year ).

I prefer the buttons.

[tjl]

Anyone else annoyed by this? Has any company made a switch that was worse from an ergonomics point-of-view?

Touch sensitive buttons instead of buttons that you press to activate. Makes accidentally activating other functions easy when trying to locate a button by feel while keeping your eyes on the road.



Touch screens for commonly used functions have the same problem. Or worse if you have to dig through layers of menus.

[tjl]

Who the **** turns on the hazards while driving and turning?

If you are driving on the freeway and encounter a sudden slowdown in an unexpected place, it may be advisable to turn on the hazards to try to wake up the driver behind you who would otherwise rear-end you because s/he was not paying enough attention.

[vwfreek]

This.

[1985Jetta]

Slider A/C controls are classic IMO

[1985Jetta]

I also turn my hazards on in very heavy rain, then get to the nearest off ramp and wait.

[rabbitnothopper]

What?? Those keys were awesome! Especially the all-metal ones, without the plastic ends. They were short, simple, and easy to tell apart.



At one point, I had three sets of them on my key ring in my pocket. To this day, they were some of the smallest car keys I ever carried - not the giant remote-control monstrosities that "modern" car keys are.

i also have about 3 sets of those
they are very good keys compared to modern keys.

[Ace_VR6]

The Worst button placement I have ever had to deal with is the trunk release button on the 2005 Ford Mustang GT my dad had. It didn't have one... Had one on keyfob though!

[rabbitnothopper]

Touch screens for commonly used functions have the same problem. Or worse if you have to dig through layers of menus.

touch screens are backwards evolution of ergonomics no matter what you try to do to explain it

sure sure sure...huge technological leap foward with superior programming capability and usefulness
two steps backwards in human interaction

[rabbitnothopper]

I had a 1984 Buick Grand National when I was in college, and it had the standard GM hazard switch on the steering column (looked sort of like this):



I hated using it, because once it was on I could never figure out how to shut it off, and when I did manage to turn it off I felt like I was snapping a chicken bone in half.

Anyone else annoyed by this? Has any company made a switch that was worse from an ergonomics point-of-view?

88 oldsmobile calais had a very similar setup
but not that exact kind

it was on the coloumn and a stiff push button on pull button off
never had a problem with it

again, it did look slightly different.

[rabbitnothopper]

The Worst button placement I have ever had to deal with is the trunk release button on the 2005 Ford Mustang GT my dad had. It didn't have one... Had one on keyfob though!

therefore your story is saying
key is dead...cant open trunk.....facepalm and sell the car?

[Smokin Joe]

Citroen?

Oui, Oui

[cityjohn]

At least they're finally on the door. The E30/36/46 had the worst window switch setup ever

I liked the center console-mounted (or in the case of VW, dashboard-mounted) window switches. It's like the car is saying "you're in Germany now"

[1985Jetta]

I liked the center console-mounted (or in the case of VW, dashboard-mounted) window switches. It's like the car is saying "you're in Germany now"

I liked them in 80's Pontiacs.

[zaYG]

I used to wonder if I'd knock myself out with my own fist trying to hit the horn in a wreck while the airbag deployed.

I went to high school with a girl who broke her nose from doing this.

[Live-Wire]

All the E90 bashing, yet no one pointed out the location of both cupholders are directly above your front passengers knees!

I'm actually picking up an E90 on Friday, thought it was one of the best cars I've driven ergonomically and overall. Didn't notice the lock switch, but good to know for when I go to pick up my first passenger (I assume the door locks self-lock when you start driving?). I found the window switches were in a easy to locate/reach area... not a far reach at all.

The lock button in the center (and window switches in the center) is to save money on LHD/RHD models. My buddy rented a new Focus and couldn't find the unlock switch for a month apparently... he kept using his key-fob. He complained to me about it, I found it on google in about 2 minutes and told him. He thought the center lock thing was the dumbest thing ever too... Personally I don't care as long as I know where the switch is. The reach is the same.

Why should you need to tell them apart? Why have two different keys at all? A single key for a single car. I can't believe it took GM until the 1990's to fix that ergonomic fail. And, they held onto the dual key setup despite customer preference:

I agree, these are one of the worst things ever. I remember having friends who defended them. Then complained that their tiny, pointy, stabby keys jabbed them in the leg yet again.

I showed them the keys to my parents Volvo; one of their first squared off keys. The ones that reduce leg-stabbage by about 95%. They worked both ways too. Beautiful.

I then showed them the switch blade key when said friends got cars with keyless entry... on a separate little cheap plastic fob... that broke all the time... and had painted on markings that wore off in less than a year. My switchblade was compact, it stored the key off to the side, it was fun to play with for 5-10 minutes, it had embossed icons for what the rubberized buttons did that lasted ~7-8 years before the button got pretty worn down. By then you knew what the buttons did.

[Ace_VR6]

therefore your story is saying
key is dead...cant open trunk.....facepalm and sell the car?

Not at all I am saying they have no trunk button for 2005. 2004 and 2006 has them but none in 2005. Terrible placement in 2005.

[choochoo]

All the E90 bashing, yet no one pointed out the location of both cupholders are directly above your front passengers knees!

I'm actually picking up an E90 on Friday, thought it was one of the best cars I've driven ergonomically and overall. Didn't notice the lock switch, but good to know for when I go to pick up my first passenger (I assume the door locks self-lock when you start driving?). I found the window switches were in a easy to locate/reach area... not a far reach at all.

Ahhh, yes the cupholders, which the driver can not reach and will kindly remind you to retract them as your passenger exits the vehicle. I didn't think of it until you mentioned it because I'm almost never a passenger. But, seriously, I'm surprised ours haven't broken yet.
I was kind of nitpicking with the window switches
Overall, it's a good car ergonomically speaking. Just a few annoyances.

[Iroczgirl]

The early Chevy Citations had a vertically mounted radio.

[patrickvr6]

I present the air cooled 911 climate control system. Controls are scattered all over the car and it is absolutely mystifying. The only saving grace is that no matter where you put all those switches nothing really changes.

[Chmeeee]

Subaru wiper stalk:



Notice that the mist function and the washer function have the same symbol? That combined the fact that the mist function uses the control that most cars use for the washer (pull stalk) resulted in my changing out a perfectly good washer fluid pump.

[Lifelong Obsession]

I will second the E90 cupholders. Hot drinks above the passenger's knee where they will inevitably bump it when exiting the car - gee, what could go wrong there?

[Lifelong Obsession]

1995-2005 Cavalier. Lighter/outlet right next to the ignition (and where the ignition actually is on some other cars).

[Hostile]

I had an immediate flashback to my mom's 1980 Cutlass Supreme.

LOL, same flashback to my grandma's 80's Cutlass Supreme.

[RobMarkToo]

I remember the Plymouth Volare station wagon my parents had when I was a kid had the switch for the high beams on the floor? I always thought it was like a magic trick when my mom would turn them on and she would say the switch is on the floor and I would think she was joking, always asked her to point it out to me one day and she never did. I looked several times in the footwell and never did find the thing.

[VDub2625]

I remember this from my 1985 Celebrity. What a piece, thank god I never used it much.

Haha, I remember that from my mom's 85 Celebrity growing up. I wedged an old stopwatch in the dash to add a clock too

That really wasn't much worse than the more typical hazard switch arrangement on older cars, which was to have a slider on top of the column. Why were the switches arranged that way? Was it just so the hazard switch could be part of a unit with the turn signal lever?

Yes, it's much easier (meaning a lot less wiring) to activate the hazards right from the same place as the turn signals.

Check this:


The wonderful, new 1990 Passat, with switches that you need arthritis fingers to reach. Right about the knee, the switches face sideways in an unviewable, unreachable single panel. All 4 doors were like this.

In 1993-ish, when the Mk3 cae out, Zee Germans said, "oh, you want easy to reach door switches, eh? Oh, we'll give you those...

(you can sort of see them at the top of the grab handle)

"...but just try finding those rear window switches at ze momen't snotice! Haha!"

[Smokin Joe]

I remember the Plymouth Volare station wagon my parents had when I was a kid had the switch for the high beams on the floor? I always thought it was like a magic trick when my mom would turn them on and she would say the switch is on the floor and I would think she was joking, always asked her to point it out to me one day and she never did. I looked several times in the footwell and never did find the thing.

All the old American cars had it there, it was a great spot. You can dim the lights without taking your hands off the wheel. Great when you're in the middle of a blind turn and there is an approaching car.

[creanium]

Good luck finding and activating the horn on a mid-90s Trans Am

[GoFaster]

All the old American cars had it there, it was a great spot. You can dim the lights without taking your hands off the wheel. Great when you're in the middle of a blind turn and there is an approaching car.

... unless you lived in the snow/salt belt, in which case the snow that you drag in with your boots melts while you are driving and then freezes into the carpet and into that high-beam switch when you park the car, and salt gets into the switch and buggers it up. Dumb place to put anything electrical whatsoever.

[Glumrug]

Who the **** turns on the hazards while driving and turning?

Someone trying to warn others of a hazard?

Ergonomically, yeah its a pain to hit when in motion. But the feel of the button, and that it lights up in a huge hazard implying way? TOTALLY AWESOME.

I LOVE the hazards on my Cabrio, the first time I used them was at night. I almost laughed, it lights up the whole cabin.

[Taipei_E92]

At least they're finally on the door. The E30/36/46 had the worst window switch setup ever

The BMW faithful will disagree with you here...they bemoan its move to the doors! I don't mind the central positioning of the switch, but still mind the double-door handle pull to open the door...when the car is stopped, I would think the computer could be smart enough to realize to pulls are not necessary. Conversely, if the car is moving at speed, any number of door pulls to open the door is probably not the best choice!

On my E92, the window switches are a little too far forward....my E90 friends tell me they often open the back window when they reach for the front window....so it is an ergonomic niggle...but certainly not a "worse ergonomics fail" that the thread is looking for. I think the GM hazard switches are the winner for me too.

[VWVan]

Similar to Seabirds post about the steering wheel.

I had an Infiniti G20t for 6 years and could never find the horn button when I really needed it!

pic from google:

[Big Dac With Fries]

The Worst button placement I have ever had to deal with is the trunk release button on the 2005 Ford Mustang GT my dad had. It didn't have one... Had one on keyfob though!

I see this and raise you the trunk release mechanism/remote lever of an '80s Audi Coupe.



I can't even find a picture of the damn thing, it's so obscure.

In case you're wondering, it's in the B-pillar. You've got to open the door, probably exit the car, and then pull the little lever to open the trunk.