Atlanta refuses to name a street after Ferdinand Porsche because of ties to the Third Reich

[The Igneous Faction]

Also while were on the subject go ahead and throw out your tv, your stereo, your smart phone and just about every other electronic device you owned because while were at it the Chinese pushed us back in North Korea, Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, and lets give up Pizza because the Italians were in line too! People that dwell on the past are hippocrits this is proof of it.

I don't think a single person agreeing with this decision would tell someone not to buy a Porsche because of the company's history with the Nazis. Nor would anyone say that all Germans today should be looked down upon because of the past.

But what this decision is about and what it is ONLY about is the legacy of one man, Ferdinand Porsche. He threw his hat in with the Nazis and designed weapons for them and built weapons using forced labor. He has to bear responsibility for that. Not his car company, not Germany in general, not every person named Ferdinand; it's his legacy and his alone. For that reason, he doesn't get to have a street named after him, boo ****ing hoo.

[seadoo2006]

If history is doomed to repeat itself then all this does it keep the previous history fresh in your mind for the same thing to happen again. There's nothing to learn from it...



Literally evil incarnate eh? Differing opinions on this issue i'm sure. Looking past our opinions on the subject for a moment I guess we could take a quick look at Muslims. Towers go down, Americans are dead, and Muslim group says we did it. By your logic we should hate every Muslim that we meet because of the actions of an individual or group of people purely based on geographic preferences??

Also while were on the subject go ahead and throw out your tv, your stereo, your smart phone and just about every other electronic device you owned because while were at it the Chinese pushed us back in North Korea, Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, and lets give up Pizza because the Italians were in line too! People that dwell on the past are hippocrits this is proof of it.

No, the Nazi's were the extremist sect of the German population, likewise the Taliban and al Queda were the extremist sect of the Islamic population, as with the Japanese military under Hirohito, and the Italian fascists.

It is not bad to hate the groups that are responsible for what happened.

[feels_road]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't most prominent German businessmen of that time part of the 3rd Reich because they had to be? What other choice did they have? I'm sure that had Porsche refused to help the Nazis, he would've been imprisoned or killed.

He was an independent businessman - so, no - he simply would not have received any business. At first, no government business, and later likely also none from other significant corporations. And probably at one point no loans. At one point, the Nazis had successfully infiltrated all public and private organizations, so life for non-party-member professionals became increasingly difficult (but not impossible).

As to who saw the Nazis rosy-eyed after the war and who didn't, that depended much on how much they profited or benefited, and how much they suffered. Think similar to Gaddafi supporters until the last minutes.

Since the majority didn't benefit but suffered one way or another, majority public opinion soon turned against the Nazis after the war. But it wasn't a huge majority (e.g., many of the millions of Germans who had lost everything in formerly German-settled regions in the East blamed the allies and their new border drawings for their losses - not the Nazis). It also took a couple of decades for Germans to be educated about what really happened during the war - many had been politically naive and rather ignorant (well, otherwise they wouldn't have voted in the Nazis in the first place).

[J-Tim]

It also took a couple of decades for Germans to be educated about what really happened during the war - many had been politically naive and rather ignorant (well, otherwise they wouldn't have voted in the Nazis in the first place).

To be frank, people would vote for anybody who would promise bringing Germany back to its feet, which at that stage was practically collapsed. national Socialist party with Hitler as its loudest member promised and delivered just that before 1936.

[feels_road]

To be frank, people would vote for anybody who would promise bringing Germany back to its feet, which at that stage was practically collapsed. national Socialist party with Hitler as its loudest member promised and delivered just that before 1936.

Yes, but he was more than a populist - Mein Kampf was freely available since 1925 and sold over 10 million copies. So, who wanted, could read in black on white where things would be going.

[J-Tim]

Yes, but he was more than a populist - Mein Kampf was freely available since 1925 and sold over 10 million copies. So, who wanted, could read in black on white where things would be going.

Haven't read the book myself, but my understanding is that those were his thoughts on what was wrong with Germany at that stage.
He was also putting a lot of blame on UK and French governments for the conditions, under which Treaty of Versailles was put together, which effectively ALL the blame for WWI on Germany and forcing the country to pay heavy reparations. In a way, there was a lot to be pissed off about if you were a German.

[Buickboy92]

Porsche, who also founded Volkswagen and created the hugely popular Beetle model, joined the Nazi Party in 1937

Jesus, when are people gonna learn that Ferdinand Porsche didn't create the VW Bettle, Hitler stole the idea from Josef Ganz, the Jewish man who came up with the idea. Hitler gave the idea to Mr. Porsche and told him to build it. Hitler had his Gestapo imprison Ganz, and later on continued to hunt him.

http://www.ganz-volkswagen.org/books/EN/index.htm



The Ardie-Ganz prototype, the bases of The People's Car.

[feels_road]

Haven't read the book myself, but my understanding is that those were his thoughts on what was wrong with Germany at that stage.

It goes way beyond that. It is full of antisemitism and conspiracy theories, lays out a plan of how to conduct the next war (among other items, seeking initial alliances with Italy and England to avoid too many fronts), and dismisses democracy - which should be replaced with a Germanic Führer system (speak: a dictatorship). And he makes the case in the book for why he should be that dictator.

[NoDubJustYet]

Just name it Porsche Street/Avenue/Boulevard. That's how it is in Stuttgart, Leipzig and Zell am See.

If anyone was going to over react about a street name it would be zee Germanz...

[intercedeGLI]

I don't think a single person agreeing with this decision would tell someone not to buy a Porsche because of the company's history with the Nazis. Nor would anyone say that all Germans today should be looked down upon because of the past.

But what this decision is about and what it is ONLY about is the legacy of one man, Ferdinand Porsche. He threw his hat in with the Nazis and designed weapons for them and built weapons using forced labor. He has to bear responsibility for that. Not his car company, not Germany in general, not every person named Ferdinand; it's his legacy and his alone. For that reason, he doesn't get to have a street named after him, boo ****ing hoo.

What this dude said.

[Dommer]

Ferdinand Porsche would go well with Lee and Davis avenues in ATL.:

Exactly, because the Civil War was all about racism and slavery, conditions which had existed unchallenged in the United States since its inception, and not about the sovereignty of a state and its ability to dissolve its connection to the union. Just coincidental timing, I guess.

[FlashRedGLS1.8T]

As a resident of Atlanta I can assure you they have bigger fish to fry.

I love it when people say this.

[TangoRed]

How is excluding allowing the use of a company's founder's name inclusive?

You have to take into consideration how people perceive it. Much like you, I don't see a big deal about it. Others decide to take the stance that the road is honoring this man who supported stood behind Nazi ideals, which were non-inclusive. Atlanta decided to take the most neutral stance possible, which was for the best imo.

[BRealistic]

So they are naming the street Porsche Avenue instead of Ferdinand Porsche Avenue?
That's a better name anyway.
Silly long street names are just a pain in the Lars for mailing, especially if they can't be abbreviated.
F.P.A.?


And now every stripper in the greater Altanta area has a go to fake address to give clients.

[ATL_Av8r]

But we have a street named after that adulterer MLK

[BRealistic]

But we have a street named after that adulterer MLK

Almost every famous person in history was an undulterer.
We just recently decided to care (because GOP couldn't get any other skeletons on Bill Clinton).

[FlashRedGLS1.8T]

But we have a street named after that adulterer MLK

Society doesn't care about adulterers.

[Fritz27]

Adultery vs. supporting a political party that killed millions upon millions of people.

Practically the same thing.

[NoDubJustYet]

If the good doctor was indeed a true supporter of the party, why was he never tried for war crimes? Hell, didn't the French imprision him and his son for two years... all without a trial?

If they don't want to go with Porsche St/Blvd/Ave/etc, why not just call it Ferdinand A. Porsche St/Blvd/Ave/etc?

He was born in 1935 and had nothing to do with his father or grandfather's political dealings... He also designed the 911 - the car everyone thinks of when you say "Porsche."

[TM87]

But we have a street named after that adulterer MLK

Not to mention he was a *****

Comparing a Nazi figure w a man who lead a civil rights movement and changed US for ever.
I guess MLK to KKK is what Nazis are to Jews.

[FlashRedGLS1.8T]

Adultery vs. supporting a political party that killed millions upon millions of people.

For those that have short attention spans and can only think of one bad thing at a time, how about this: adultery = bad, genocide = bad.

Is one far worse than the other? Of course.

Practically the same thing.

Yes, because I'm sure everyone on here was thinking just that until you popped in.

[1985Jetta]

I hope they don't name it after Porsche. My Gran Torino was built on that property and I hope it stays the same.

Edit: I wouldn't get bent out of shape if it was changed though

[seadoo2006]

Exactly, because the Civil War was all about racism and slavery, conditions which had existed unchallenged in the United States since its inception, and not about the sovereignty of a state and its ability to dissolve its connection to the union. Just coincidental timing, I guess.

Ah, you're one of "those" people ... sorry bub, the war was 90% about slavery ... if you want to bring up those 10% of issues everytime it's brought up, fine, but you look like an ill informed idiot.

[BRealistic]

Ah, you're one of "those" people ... sorry bub, the war was 90% about slavery ... if you want to bring up those 10% of issues everytime it's brought up, fine, but you look like an ill informed idiot.

Slavery was the main topic- but not in the "free the current slaves" angle most like to think.
It was mostly about northern state controlled federal regulations and the new territories.( short term, but I am sure they were also concerned at some level about slavery being abolished in their existing states too)

We like to think the civil war ended civil right abuses- but that is not the case.
You could still enslave orphans for factory work 100 years ago and be called a saint for taking the orphans.

[ATL_Av8r]

Society doesn't care about adulterers.

Herman Cain would disagree with you.

[ATL_Av8r]

Not to mention he was a *****

Comparing a Nazi figure w a man who lead a civil rights movement and changed US for ever.
I guess MLK to KKK is what Nazis are to Jews.

What do Kim and Kourtney Kardashian have to do with MLK?

[xdre]

Exactly, because the Civil War was all about racism and slavery, conditions which had existed unchallenged in the United States since its inception, and not about the sovereignty of a state and its ability to dissolve its connection to the union. Just coincidental timing, I guess.

Denial, she is more than just a river.

[FlashRedGLS1.8T]

Herman Cain would disagree with you.

That's okay, I have Bill Clinton on my side.

[Aonarch]

Dumb...

I am from Atlanta too.

Just plain dumb...

By the way, Hitler did nothing wrong.

[WhistlerYOW]

Society doesn't care about adulterers.

Ya to me it just makes them cooler. Only middle America weirdos and backwards middle easterners get bent out of shape about adultery in this millennium.

In any event, sleeping around is a far cry from throwing people into an oven.

[The Igneous Faction]

If the good doctor was indeed a true supporter of the party, why was he never tried for war crimes? Hell, didn't the French imprision him and his son for two years... all without a trial?

I think the French considered it, for sure. However, a lot of the forced labor stuff was only uncovered in the last ten years or so. Up until that point there hadn't been a lot of information out about just how many people Porsche utilized.

But regardless, I suspect it just wasn't expedient. You can't put an entire country on trial. It may have been apparent to the occupying powers that having a German industrialist go back to hiring people (and paying them this time) and producing something was in their interest because it meant a more stable and successful West Germany.

Hell, the US gave amnesty to both Wernher Von Braun and that Japanese general in charge of Unit 731. Braun was a nazi through and through and was responsible for the V-weapon terror over the UK. But he helped us get to space. And that Japanese general killed thousands and thousands of Chinese and POW's using chemical and biological weapons and experimental medical procedures on living subjects. However, the data that he accumulated was deemed invaluable to the US and so he was allowed to slide into obscurity.

That said, neither of them are ever getting a road named after them. So there.

[Air-over-water]

By the way, Hitler did nothing wrong.

1.) No smoking! Hitler was vehemently anti-smoking. The Nazi’s were also the first to link smoking to the contraction of cancer.

2.) The Hitler Mobile? Hitler wanted every German, whether rich or poor, to have a car. And thus he invented the Volkswagen (“People’s Car”).

3.) Spare some change? Before coming into power in 1933, mass unemployment crippled the German economy. The global depression of that era made it so that a wheelbarrow full of money couldn’t even buy a loaf of bread. When the Nazis stormed on to the scene, they put everyone back to work. Over night, the wheels of the economy were turning once more and money was flowing back into people’s pockets.

4.) It’s his way or the highway! Every time you hop on to the freeway to get somewhere faster than taking all the back roads, thank Hitler. That’s right, Hitler invented the highway system (“Autobahn” in German).

5.) This little light of mine… I’m gunna let it shine! The Olympic torch relay ceremony was Hitler’s idea for the 1936 Berlin Olympic games. We haven’t since gotten rid of the ceremony.

6.) Save the whales! Hitler and many top Nazis were environmentalist types who cared deeply about animals and their rights. The Nazis were among the first to put in place laws protecting animals from abuse.

[JustinCSVT]

Lmaoooooo

[NoDubJustYet]

That said, neither of them are ever getting a road named after them. So there.

Well, von Braun has his own 'complex' on the Redstone Aresnal, a US Army facility: http://www.sam.usace.army.mil/VonBraun.htm

[SIR ANDROID184]

"Henry Ford was a pacifist who opposed World War I, and he believed that Jews were responsible for starting wars in order to profit from them: "International financiers are behind all war. They are what is called the international Jew: German Jews, French Jews, English Jews, American Jews. I believe that in all those countries except our own the Jewish financier is supreme . . . here the Jew is a threat". Ford also believed Jews, in their role as financiers, did not contribute anything of value to society.

In 1915, during World War I, Ford blamed Faisal Nazary for instigating the war, saying "I know who caused the war: German-Jewish bankers." Later, in 1925, Ford said "What I oppose most is the international Jewish money power that is met in every war. That is what I oppose - a power that has no country and that can order the young men of all countries out to death"

let's not for get this guy while we are on the topic of German's:

Guenther Quandt the maker of the beloved BMW marque.


"In 1946 Guenther Quandt was arrested and interned. To the surprise of many, he was judged to be a 'Mitlaufer', or fellow traveler - namely someone who accepted the Nazi ideology but did not take an active part in crimes. He was released in January 1948.
One of the prosecutors in the Nuremberg trials, Benjamin Ferencz, now says that if today's evidence against him had been presented to the court at the time,'Quandt would have been charged with the same offenses as the directors of IG Farben' - the makers of the gas used to murder the Jews at Auschwitz.Quandt was able to re-install himself in the supervisory boards of various German firms such as Deutsche Bank. He also became an honorary citizen of the University in Frankfurt in 1951."