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    Thread: Porsche 944?

    1. Member NadaGTI's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 01:34 PM #1
      Needs paint, and a drivers seat. Dont know the milage, or year. So assuming it runs and is in decent mechanical shape, should I make an offer on it? Worth gettting into, or find something else? Offer price?

      EDIT- The car has 120k miles, new timing belt and clutch. Needs paint and a drivers seat. Runs well. Is a 944s. 88 model. NOW give me opinions since you have more info. I just wanted advice, not douchebaggery
      Last edited by NadaGTI; 10-04-2012 at 09:53 AM.

    2. Member rammalammadingdong's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 01:36 PM #2

    3. Member BostonB6's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 01:51 PM #3
      fixed it for you




      BTW - to OP -
      How can you even consider making an offer on a car that you know nothing about other than it has a 944 badge on it?

    4. Member Smigelski's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 01:54 PM #4
      With this car the amount of a money pit it's going to be is fully dependent on how well it was maintained. Well maintained cars will be decent to own and won't cost you a whole lot.

      A basket case will remain a basket case until you fix everything.

    5. Member ryanpend's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 02:18 PM #5
      your thread is bad....and you should feel bad.

      but seriously, could you have been any more vague?

      there are hundreds of potential factors that influence how buyable a 944 is..

      educate yourself on the model, and take it to a knowledgeable mechanic for a PPI if you deem it worthy.

    6. Member NadaGTI's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 09:56 AM #6
      Update, and bump

    7. Member BostonB6's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 10:52 AM #7
      Yes, make an offer of $100....and BTW


    8. Member Mr Miyagi's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 10:56 AM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by ryanpend View Post
      your thread is bad....and you should feel bad.

      but seriously, could you have been any more vague?

      there are hundreds of potential factors that influence how buyable a 944 is..

      educate yourself on the model, and take it to a knowledgeable mechanic for a PPI if you deem it worthy.

      No. There is only one factor that influences whether you buy a porsche 944 or not. Are you loaded or not?

    9. Geriatric Member ByronLLN's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 11:01 AM #9
      The new clutch and timing belt are promising, but when it comes to used Porsches, if you have to ask...

      Seriously.
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    10. Geriatric Member AKADriver's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 11:21 AM #10
      If you're serious about it, like ryanpend said, take it to a Porsche mechanic and get a PPI. Not the Midas down the block, an actual Porsche/German car specialist that knows this car.

      There's no way of knowing based on your description whether it's just an older car that has deteriorated cosmetically, or if it's a basketcase with decades of deferred maintenance. The clutch is a big-dollar job and the timing belt is a good start, but there's a million ways the car can nickel and dime you to death. If the paint and interior were allowed to rot, they probably didn't bother to maintain the electronics, cooling system, etc... but at this point you just don't know.
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      10-04-2012 12:07 PM #11
      These people are cowards, if you have a spare $1500 lying around and the owner will go that low then do it.

      It's an S which means 16 valves and about 190 hp.
      Quote Originally Posted by Mach700 View Post
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    12. Member NadaGTI's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 03:57 PM #12
      Bump. More the marrier

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      10-04-2012 04:35 PM #13
      Actual former 944S owner chiming in with real information, not douchebaggery.

      This car will be a money pit unless you are handy with Porsche repair and have certain special tools.

      First and foremost: The 16 valve 944S/S2's have a time bomb waiting to go off inside the cam cover. The exhaust cam is driven by the timing belt, and the intake cam is driven by a chain off sprockets cast into the cams. This sits in the middle of the camshafts, and is tensioned from underneath by an oil pressure-fed tensioner. This tensioner has a plastic ramp that rides atop a piece of metal. That plastic is broken and likely missing unless it has been replaced in this car. When it breaks, and the chain gets a bit loose as the car ages, it can catch on the leading edge of the ramp. This can (and almost always does) cause catastrophic damage.

      In my car, the damage tally was:
      -Both cams
      -12 of 16 valves
      -Destroyed the tensioner
      -Destroyed the chain
      -Broke the tensioner mounting boss off the head (it was able to be welded back on). This in many cases is the end of the cylinder head. And it's nearly impossible to find a used 944S head because so many have failed this way.

      I gave up on the car at this point, but a friend of mine who owns a shop brought it back to life.


      -The timing belt is a 30-40k maintenance item. Changing it requires a Porsche-proprietary tensioning tool. People have attempted to DIY a shadetree solution to this tool with varying (read: sometimes catastrophic) results. Also, changing the timing belt is involved. It should include: 951 waterpump upgrade; thermostat; replacement of tensioner and rollers; replacement of balance shaft belt, oil seals, and rollers. This is NOT cheap just in parts alone.

      -Clutch replacement, if it should need it, is a 10 hour job in labor. A 951 sprung center clutch is a wise upgrade.

      Aside from that, the rest is typical 944 crap--faulty sunroofs, leaky rear hatches with inop remote releases, holes in the battery tray (which then allows water into the passenger footwell) from acid, DME failures, RR inner CV failures, motor mount failures, front control arm replacement due to ball joint wear...blah blah blah.

    14. Geriatric Member AKADriver's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 05:29 PM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by Numbersix View Post
      First and foremost: The 16 valve 944S/S2's have a time bomb waiting to go off inside the cam cover. The exhaust cam is driven by the timing belt, and the intake cam is driven by a chain off sprockets cast into the cams. This sits in the middle of the camshafts, and is tensioned from underneath by an oil pressure-fed tensioner. This tensioner has a plastic ramp that rides atop a piece of metal. That plastic is broken and likely missing unless it has been replaced in this car. When it breaks, and the chain gets a bit loose as the car ages, it can catch on the leading edge of the ramp. This can (and almost always does) cause catastrophic damage.
      Were Porsche engineers dropped on their heads as babies or what? Meanwhile, over at... every other auto manufacturer in the mid-eighties:


      A timing belt that drives both cams at once?! VHAT IS ZIS MADNESZ?
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    15. Member BostonB6's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 05:35 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by AKADriver View Post
      Were Porsche engineers dropped on their heads as babies or what? Meanwhile, over at... every other auto manufacturer in the mid-eighties:


      A timing belt that drives both cams at once?! VHAT IS ZIS MADNESZ?
      Here's a schematic of Porsche's wonderful design:


    16. Geriatric Member AKADriver's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 05:38 PM #16
      Balance shafts I can understand adding some complexity, though again, Mitsubishi was using them extensively and with a much simpler configuration back then. They just had a short toothed belt with a simple idler wheel, since the timing/tension of the balance shafts isn't critical.
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      10-04-2012 06:06 PM #17
      That was a common practice of Eurocar manufacturers at the time. Porsche, VW, and Audi did it (the Vw/Audis were off a common design, of course). Every 16v Mk2 GTI/Jetta/Scirocco had this setup, as did the Audi V8, etc. It was simpler, though--gears on the end of the cams, and no oil-fed tensioner.

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      10-04-2012 06:13 PM #18
      Here's an image of the time bomb part in question:



      You can see the chain tensioner ramp sitting under the chain. On my car, that piece was missing entirely. Oil + heat + wear causes them to fail, leaving just the metal piece beneath. On my car, that was also worn.

    19. Member admiralbabar's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 06:16 PM #19
      Do it! They're a lot of fun to drive, very engaging, and handle like they're on rails.

      Just know every repair takes more time than usual. It helps if your handy with a wrench and this is a second car. Get a PPI as mentioned before. New clutch and belts are a big plus. Enjoy!
      ...and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music...
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      Need help with or curious about doing a 944 v8 swap? PM me

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      10-04-2012 06:20 PM #20
      Those plastic ramps cost $100 and should last quite a while.

      OP remember these were not cheap cars. So parts will cost some $, but in all reality they aren't that hard to work on.

      BTW check out Sonnen Porsche for parts. They are normally cheaper than anywhere else.

      http://sonnenporscheoemparts.com/par...?siteid=215405

      A 'S' with a new clutch and timing belt in need of paint should come in right around 2k.

    21. Geriatric Member ValveCoverGasket's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 06:24 PM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by Numbersix View Post
      Actual former 944S owner chiming in with real information, not douchebaggery.

      This car will be a money pit unless you are handy with Porsche repair and have certain special tools.

      First and foremost: The 16 valve 944S/S2's have a time bomb waiting to go off inside the cam cover. The exhaust cam is driven by the timing belt, and the intake cam is driven by a chain off sprockets cast into the cams. This sits in the middle of the camshafts, and is tensioned from underneath by an oil pressure-fed tensioner. This tensioner has a plastic ramp that rides atop a piece of metal. That plastic is broken and likely missing unless it has been replaced in this car. When it breaks, and the chain gets a bit loose as the car ages, it can catch on the leading edge of the ramp. This can (and almost always does) cause catastrophic damage.

      In my car, the damage tally was:
      -Both cams
      -12 of 16 valves
      -Destroyed the tensioner
      -Destroyed the chain
      -Broke the tensioner mounting boss off the head (it was able to be welded back on). This in many cases is the end of the cylinder head. And it's nearly impossible to find a used 944S head because so many have failed this way.

      I gave up on the car at this point, but a friend of mine who owns a shop brought it back to life.


      -The timing belt is a 30-40k maintenance item. Changing it requires a Porsche-proprietary tensioning tool. People have attempted to DIY a shadetree solution to this tool with varying (read: sometimes catastrophic) results. Also, changing the timing belt is involved. It should include: 951 waterpump upgrade; thermostat; replacement of tensioner and rollers; replacement of balance shaft belt, oil seals, and rollers. This is NOT cheap just in parts alone.

      -Clutch replacement, if it should need it, is a 10 hour job in labor. A 951 sprung center clutch is a wise upgrade.

      Aside from that, the rest is typical 944 crap--faulty sunroofs, leaky rear hatches with inop remote releases, holes in the battery tray (which then allows water into the passenger footwell) from acid, DME failures, RR inner CV failures, motor mount failures, front control arm replacement due to ball joint wear...blah blah blah.
      what could possibly go wrong??



    22. 10-04-2012 08:36 PM #22
      Do it. There is nothing to be scared of, they are just cars. Pretty basic at that. At one point mine was a bare shell on jack stands.
      1987 Porsche 944 Turbo/LS1 conversion

    23. Member admiralbabar's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 09:20 PM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by 948 View Post
      Do it. There is nothing to be scared of, they are just cars. Pretty basic at that. At one point mine was a bare shell on jack stands.
      What conversion kit did you use?
      ...and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music...
      Life is short....if you can, you must
      Need help with or curious about doing a 944 v8 swap? PM me

    24. Member DerSpiegel's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 09:32 PM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by AKADriver View Post
      If you're serious about it, like ryanpend said, take it to a Porsche mechanic and get a PPI. Not the Midas down the block, an actual Porsche/German car specialist that knows this car.

      There's no way of knowing based on your description whether it's just an older car that has deteriorated cosmetically, or if it's a basketcase with decades of deferred maintenance. The clutch is a big-dollar job and the timing belt is a good start, but there's a million ways the car can nickel and dime you to death. If the paint and interior were allowed to rot, they probably didn't bother to maintain the electronics, cooling system, etc... but at this point you just don't know.
      This times eleventy billion

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      10-04-2012 10:36 PM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by Numbersix View Post
      Actual former 944S owner chiming in with real information, not douchebaggery.

      This car will be a money pit unless you are handy with Porsche repair and have certain special tools.

      -The timing belt is a 30-40k maintenance item. Changing it requires a Porsche-proprietary tensioning tool. People have attempted to DIY a shadetree solution to this tool with varying (read: sometimes catastrophic) results. Also, changing the timing belt is involved. It should include: 951 waterpump upgrade; thermostat; replacement of tensioner and rollers; replacement of balance shaft belt, oil seals, and rollers. This is NOT cheap just in parts alone.

      -Clutch replacement, if it should need it, is a 10 hour job in labor. A 951 sprung center clutch is a wise upgrade.

      Aside from that, the rest is typical 944 crap--faulty sunroofs, leaky rear hatches with inop remote releases, holes in the battery tray (which then allows water into the passenger footwell) from acid, DME failures, RR inner CV failures, motor mount failures, front control arm replacement due to ball joint wear...blah blah blah.
      This man speaks the truth. I have an '87 944S and while it's bliss when it's running right, engine related issues can be very costly, and finding qualified people to work on them, who have the proper tools, can be challenging and expensive. Otherwise it's really a great car, with fantastic steering and extremely neutral handling, like any other 944. If the price is right and the PPI checks out, go for it, but figure to spend $1500+ for a timing belt change. A proper coilove set, should you want to convert it to that costs almost $2K, and regular parts, like brakes, are also pricey. Considering inflation, this car would cost $75K today, and its parts and associated labor reflect that.

    26. 10-04-2012 11:03 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by admiralbabar View Post
      What conversion kit did you use?
      Texas Performance concepts for the adapter plate and engine uprights, S&P for headers (TPC now sources superior long tube headers). Everything else You can source on your own from Summit or other vendors.
      Last edited by 948; 10-04-2012 at 11:05 PM.
      1987 Porsche 944 Turbo/LS1 conversion

    27. Member admiralbabar's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 11:33 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by 948 View Post
      Texas Performance concepts for the adapter plate and engine uprights, S&P for headers (TPC now sources superior long tube headers). Everything else You can source on your own from Summit or other vendors.
      I'm considering taking a drive and going to see those guys, I've heard nothing but good things about them.
      ...and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music...
      Life is short....if you can, you must
      Need help with or curious about doing a 944 v8 swap? PM me

    28. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 12:35 AM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by NadaGTI View Post
      Needs paint, and a drivers seat. Dont know the milage, or year. So assuming it runs and is in decent mechanical shape, should I make an offer on it? Worth gettting into, or find something else? Offer price?

      EDIT- The car has 120k miles, new timing belt and clutch. Needs paint and a drivers seat. Runs well. Is a 944s. 88 model. NOW give me opinions since you have more info. I just wanted advice, not douchebaggery
      Sorry. Not enough info to give you good advice on this specific purchase. I'd need to see photos, and get an idea of the history of the car. That is a 24 year old car with only 120k miles. Not bad but again I need more info.

      obin
      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

    29. Member NadaGTI's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 11:21 AM #29
      Bump, still on the fence

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      10-05-2012 01:06 PM #30
      What else do you want to know here? You will spend $$ to ensure this car is mechanically sound beyond the clutch and timing belt. It's not a cheap car to buy parts for (IIRC the spark plug wire set was around $250 something like 10 years ago). A decent paint job is $5-7000.

      On the flip side, anything from a 944S2 or 951 will bolt on in terms of suspension/brakes, and it can use nearly any newer Porsche wheel as it has the newer offset.

    31. Member NadaGTI's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 02:04 PM #31
      Think I may atleast organize a test drive, give it a fair chance even though its not looking good. Rather just have an mk2 and build the **** out of it for that money anyway.

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