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    Thread: Toyota overhauls engine plans (6-, 8-speed autos, CVTs, 2.0T)

    1. Senior Member Mazda 3s's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 12:57 PM #1
      About damn time!

      For years, Toyota Motor Corp. has put hybrids at the center of its powertrain-technology strategy, all but oblivious to the rapid fuel-economy advancements rivals have made in the humble gasoline engine.

      Meanwhile, Ford, Honda, Mazda, Hyundai, Volkswagen and others have turned to gasoline direct fuel injection and turbochargers. For them, those technologies were a quick, cost-effective route to better mpg. Turbochargers, for example, allowed them to maintain power output while making engines smaller, for a significant weight savings and higher fuel economy.

      Now, in a major overhaul of its lineup, Toyota is playing catchup. It will introduce a new direct-injection engine next year and follow with a downsized turbocharged powerplant --its first--in 2014. It is also committing to continuously variable transmissions across its range of small- to medium-sized cars.

      Toyota is hardly forsaking gasoline-electric hybrids. It plans to introduce 14 new hybrids by 2015. But hybrids, led by the Prius, still represent only 10 percent of Toyota's global sales.

      Toyota's latest environmental technology game plan, unveiled in Tokyo, shows it will start doubling down on the standard powertrains that are the backbone of its offerings. And Toyota expects big gains in fuel economy for its nonhybrid vehicles.

      "By 2015, through improvement in the engine and powertrain alone, we aim to achieve a fuel-efficiency improvement of 10 percent to 20 percent on the models adopting the improvements," said Takeshi Uchiyamada, Toyota's outgoing product development chief.

      The rollout won't happen overnight. Engineers are still debating how widely technologies such as direct injection and turbocharging should be applied.

      Insiders say President Akio Toyoda, who wanted to make his company's cars zippier to drive without sacrificing fuel economy, urged his staff to embrace nonhybrid technologies.

      Moreover, Toyota plans to combine direct injection with its hybrid system to deliver a new generation of hybrids that are all the more miserly with fuel.

      Key elements of Toyota's plan:

      -- A 2.5-liter direct-injection, Atkinson cycle engine, to be deployed first in hybrids in 2013.

      -- A 2.0-liter downsized turbo-charged engine in 2014.

      -- A shift to CVTs in small- to mid-sized vehicles.

      -- More six- and eight-speed automatic transmissions for larger cars.

      Today, the company doesn't offer any turbocharged vehicles. It experimented briefly with turbos in the 1980s but chiefly as a way to boost output from already powerful engines--not as a way of getting more oomph from smaller, more efficient ones. And direct injection is limited to a handful of large-displacement V6 and V8 luxury sedans, such as the Lexus LS.

      Compare that with rivals' lineups. Ford Motor Co., for instance, makes extensive use of turbocharging, from engines with displacements as small as 1.0 liter to engines in its big pickups. Honda Motor Co. and Mazda Motor Corp. are overhauling their engine lineups to make fuel injection their base technology.

      Starting next year, Toyota will answer by piggybacking its D-4S direct-injection technology onto its AR family of four-cylinder gasoline engines. Toyota's AR engines are used in such models as the Toyota Camry, RAV4, Highlander and Venza and the Lexus RX. The injectors are supplied by Denso Corp.

      A direct-injection, 2.5-liter AR four-banger initially will go into the hybrid version of the Toyota Crown, a Japan-market sedan. Future deployments could go in the Camry or other AR cars.

      "This is the beginning of gasoline direct injection for the four-cylinder engines," said Takashi Shimura, general manager for engine development. "Smaller engines will be following this engine. As a trend, this is right. It will be standard."

      Shimura said direct injection will start in bigger engines and trickle down to smaller ones. He didn't give a timeline.

      In 2014, Toyota will introduce a downsized 2.0-liter, four-cylinder turbocharged AR engine based on the 2.5-liter powerplant. Toyota declined to identify the model or the turbocharger supplier.

      Pairing direct injection with Toyota's hybrid technology can boost the system's overall fuel efficiency by 10 percent, said Satoshi Ogiso, chief engineer for the Prius family of hybrids.

      But it is still unclear whether the next-generation Prius, due around 2014, will get direct injection.

      The problem is balancing the added cost of fuel injection against the goal of making the Prius as affordable as possible. Cost sensitivity is compounded because the Prius, with its extra battery, electric motor and inverter, is already pricey to build. Direct injection would add an extra ¥10,000 ($128) to the car's cost, engineers say.

      "It may be possible, but it still has to undergo a lot of discussion," Ogiso said. "That's because the Prius engine already has very good fuel efficiency without direct injection."

      Yoshihiko Matsuda, field general manager in charge of engine engineering, says direct injection could be applied in hybrids with engine displacements of 2.0, 2.5 or 3.0 liters. But he said using it in a 1.6-liter hybrid would be "borderline"--delivering only incremental benefit for the added cost.

      The current Prius has a 1.8-liter engine.

      Toyota will use a newly refined version of the Denso-made D-4S injector. It was first used this year in the Lexus GS and the Scion FR-S sporty car manufactured by Subaru-builder Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd.

      It improves mileage about 1 percent over Toyota's earlier D-4S injector, which debuted in 2006. It gets better results by using a slit-shaped, instead of a multihole, injector opening. That creates a richer fuel mixture inside the cylinder.

      Toyota's embrace of more widely used technologies comes as it concedes it misread market demand for other alternative drivetrain technologies, including electric vehicles and plug-in hybrids.

      In announcing plans for Toyota's own EV, Uchiyamada said the company would sell only about 100 of the cars in the United States and Japan on a limited basis, starting this December.

      Two years ago, he predicted Toyota would be selling thousands of the EV, which is based on the Scion iQ minicar and called the eQ.

      "But two years later, we found other conditions prevailing in the market, and we'll undertake a limited introduction," he said, in a tacit nod to the tepid sales of other makers' electric cars.

      Uchiyamada added that sales of the Prius Plug-in, which began in Japan in January, were lower than expected. He said that car needs better marketing.

      But Toyota is bullish on hybrids.

      Toyota plans to launch 21 new or redesigned hybrid vehicles by the end of 2015. Toyota didn't name the models. But 14 will be either all-new nameplates or hybrid versions of vehicles that don't currently come with an electric-gasoline option.
      http://www.autoweek.com/article/2012...#ixzz28Fw72jcX
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      10-03-2012 01:06 PM #2
      "Today, the company doesn't offer any turbocharged vehicles. It experimented briefly with turbos in the 1980s but chiefly as a way to boost output from already powerful engines"

      Huh whua? 1JZ's, 2JZ's, 3S-GTE's..?

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      10-03-2012 01:16 PM #3
      Toyota's current "low tech" engines now typically match the fuel economy of some companies' whiz-bang wee little turbo engines. This sounds like a logical next step.

      Tom

    4. 10-03-2012 01:24 PM #4
      I hope they put a 2.0t in the next Lexus IS. To bad Lexus does not have a dsg transmission.

    5. Member rynodyno312's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 01:29 PM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by 50fridge View Post
      I hope they put a 2.0t in the next Lexus IS. To bad Lexus does not have a dsg transmission.
      Their 8-speed is pretty nifty in terms of tech, but I havent driven something with it so I'm not sure how well it actually works. IIRC the converter is locked in every gear save 1st, so you don't get the typical slushbox drivetrain loss.

    6. Senior Member Lwize's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 01:47 PM #6
      This is probably the end of the line for the 3.5L V6 in the Camry and Rav4 (likely 2.0T candidates).
      :gift:

    7. 10-03-2012 02:09 PM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by Lwize View Post
      This is probably the end of the line for the 3.5L V6 in the Camry and Rav4 (likely 2.0T candidates).
      If that's the case it'll be a bittersweet departure. Even though it's aging in a way Toyota's 3.5 V6 is still one of the smoothest, most refine and best V6 engines in the market.

      But it's interesting to see Toyota give into the Turbo trend. Also a 2.5 DI 4 cylinder should be a very stout base engine. The current 2.5 4 cylinder is not the most refine engine, but it still gives you 180 hp, good fuel economy and will run forever. A new DI version of that should be good for at least 190 to 200 hp and improve on all other fronts.

    8. Member oh noes! cars!'s Avatar
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      10-03-2012 02:12 PM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by too_slow View Post
      "Today, the company doesn't offer any turbocharged vehicles. It experimented briefly with turbos in the 1980s but chiefly as a way to boost output from already powerful engines"

      Huh whua? 1JZ's, 2JZ's, 3S-GTE's..?
      They were most likely developed in the 80s and then all retired when the model they were in were discontinued
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    9. 10-03-2012 02:14 PM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by 50fridge View Post
      I hope they put a 2.0t in the next Lexus IS

      The next IS is said to be build on the FRS platform, what would be really interesting would be seeing a 2.0t boxer engine on the IS, but that's just too much of a pipe dream.

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      10-03-2012 02:15 PM #10


      This is a 2003 Caldina GT-T with the 2.0T 3S-GTE + AWD. It had such an awesome powerband, but guzzles as much gas as a WRX. Too bad we only saw that engine for a measly three years in a measly car. (92-95 MR2)

    11. Member rynodyno312's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 02:18 PM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by too_slow View Post
      It had such an awesome powerband, but guzzles as much gas as a WRX. Too bad we only saw that engine for a measly three years in a measly car. (92-95 MR2)
      We also got the engine in the Celica All-Trac from 1988-1993 (don't know if it was offered for all those years, though, they are rare cars).

    12. Member 03GTI4Me's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 03:46 PM #12
      More CVT's! Hell yes!


    13. 10-03-2012 03:50 PM #13
      With all the talk of 8-9 speed autos, are these cars ever going to NOT be shifting? Its not like the cars are going to go any faster and need these gears spread out.

      Even driving newer 6 speed cars, it seems like accelerating is just shift after shift after shift as they go through their gears. Up and down constantly. I find it annoying.

    14. Member eweu's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 03:54 PM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by WhistlerYOW View Post
      Even driving newer 6 speed cars, it seems like accelerating is just shift after shift after shift as they go through their gears. Up and down constantly. I find it annoying.
      Maybe you just haven't driven a good one? Try the 8 speed Aisin transmission in the Touareg/Q7/Cayenne. It's simply divine.

    15. Member rynodyno312's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 04:02 PM #15
      The Infiniti 7-speed is also very good, from my experience. It never feels like it's hunting for a gear or constantly shifting.

    16. Senior Member Lwize's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 04:47 PM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by 03GTI4Me View Post
      More CVT's! Hell yes!
      If they're not going full-tard with hybrids, they need to eek out the MPGs by any means possible with the gas-only cars. Sadly, it is the transmission of the moment, being adopted all over the place.

      I'm still surprised the 2013 Accord continues to offer a manual along side their new CVT on most trim levels, not just on the bottom. A new stick-shift four-door family sedan available in the US market for 2013, even in small numbers, is a miracle. Get 'em while they're here!
      :gift:

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      10-03-2012 04:59 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by 03GTI4Me View Post
      More CVT's! Hell yes!

      Try the new Accord CVT, it's excellent. Much better than most regular auto's. They should just kill off the automatic IMO, just leave us with 3 pedals and force us to row gears. This will get a lot of the retards off the road. If you can't drive stick after being taught it, you shouldn't be driving a car.

    18. 10-03-2012 05:18 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by koko12 View Post
      The next IS is said to be build on the FRS platform, what would be really interesting would be seeing a 2.0t boxer engine on the IS, but that's just too much of a pipe dream.
      How would a V6 fit into the FRS platform?

    19. Member mike02467's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 05:23 PM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by koko12 View Post
      The next IS is said to be build on the FRS platform, what would be really interesting would be seeing a 2.0t boxer engine on the IS, but that's just too much of a pipe dream.
      How are they going to build a 4 door sedan on the FRS platform... That makes no sense at all. That's like saying the next mazda 3 will be based on a Miata...

    20. Member rynodyno312's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 05:26 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by mike02467 View Post
      How are they going to build a 4 door sedan on the FRS platform... That makes no sense at all. That's like saying the next mazda 3 will be based on a Miata...
      The same way Infiniti built the FX suv on a 350Z platform--make it bigger.

    21. Member overst33r's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 05:29 PM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by 50fridge View Post
      How would a V6 fit into the FRS platform?
      The same way you fit a V8.



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    22. Member caliatenza's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 07:47 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by mike02467 View Post
      How are they going to build a 4 door sedan on the FRS platform... That makes no sense at all. That's like saying the next mazda 3 will be based on a Miata...
      Apparently the IS will be on a shortened GS platform. I really want to know about the engine lineup of the next IS though

    23. 10-03-2012 08:17 PM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by caliatenza View Post
      Apparently the IS will be on a shortened GS platform. I really want to know about the engine lineup of the next IS though
      which would be no different than the setup of the current IS - it sits on a shorten platform of the outgoing GS.

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      10-03-2012 08:48 PM #24
      Do I hear an 800cc turbo DI engine for a Prius in the future? That would actually be kinda cool.
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    25. Member caliatenza's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 01:45 PM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by joe97 View Post
      which would be no different than the setup of the current IS - it sits on a shorten platform of the outgoing GS.
      exactly, but if the base engine of the IS is non-turbo, i dont want it .

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      10-04-2012 02:53 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by caliatenza View Post
      exactly, but if the base engine of the IS is non-turbo, i dont want it .
      Lets hope the new CVT is as good as Nissan's updated CVT in the Altima and Honda's new CVT. I typically loathe CVTs, but these are two I could live with. Toyota's current CVT, at least when buried in the decidedly non-sporty Prius, kind of sucks IMO.

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