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    Thread: Jetta died while driving, wont restart

    1. 10-03-2012 01:54 PM #1
      I have a 2002 VW Jetta GLS 1.8T. I was driving it one day when the car completely lost power and the engine appeared to die. The car will not restart now. When I turn the key all I get is a fast turning sound. Battery appears to be okay.

      I put a scanner on it an got P1780 - communication issue between ecm and tcu from what I gather.

      Found some threads that said it could possibly be a relay 109 issue, however I cannot locate a 109 relay underneath the dash. Here is a pic of the relays I see, note I already removed 377 the large relay that was to the right of 409. Any idea if it's labeled with another # or something?

      Last edited by Silent99; 10-04-2012 at 10:25 AM.

    2. 10-03-2012 02:23 PM #2
      It's actually not a clicking sound, but when you turn the key its a spinning sound and that's it.

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      10-03-2012 03:14 PM #3
      So the engine won't crank when you turn the key, but you hear a spinning sound. Does it sound like an electric motor? Could be the starter motor spinning but not engaging the flywheel.
      It's odd that suddenly your car died while driving it.

      A relay that could inhibit starting the engine if it fails is the black relay marked with 175 in your picture which is the Park/Neutral relay, check it, and also check relay 100, which is the load reduction relay.
      Feed 12V to the relay and you should hear it click, if it doesn't then it means they aren't working

      Relay 109 should be next to relay 175 but I don't know if all vehicles are equipped with it, looks like yours isn't.

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      10-03-2012 03:20 PM #4
      Also, when is the last time you changed the timming belt to your car?
      1.8T engines are severly damaged when the timming belt fails while engine is running.
      If belt tears and you attempt to start the engine and crank it, you will do some damage to the valves.

      When timming belt tears engine stops working, just like yours. The weird thing with your car is that you cannot crank the engine.

      Just make sure the timming belt is OK before you attempt to turn the engine on.

    5. 10-03-2012 04:12 PM #5
      It doesn't seem like it's an electric spinning sound. I checked the timing belt from the top and it seemed to be tight, I'm not sure when it was last changed. I took the cover off the top and pulled it and it seems to be tight. Is there any other way to check it?

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      10-03-2012 06:46 PM #6
      So when you try to start the car is the engine turning over at all? I'm confused here. Have someone turn the key while you watch the timing belt. When a timing belt shreds teeth off the belt the engine loses compression and turns over really fast but you don't hear any compression as valves tend to bend/break. If the crank is turning and the cam isnt, only bad juju is in your future.
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    7. 10-03-2012 06:49 PM #7
      It doesn't turn over at all only makes the spinning sound until you let go of the key. We did do that a couple months ago and the belt does not move.

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      10-03-2012 07:36 PM #8
      The only sound that it could make with the key turned is the starter motor and the sound of the engine cranking.
      You should have someone to turn the key and try to see if you can figure out where this noise is comming from.
      With ignition on, can you turn the radio on? do you see the indicator lights of the cluster on? can you turn the head lights on?

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      10-04-2012 08:52 AM #9
      it seems a starter to me. remove your starter and manually power it and see if it engages. if it's just spinning, your starter might need replacing.

      Quote Originally Posted by Silent99 View Post
      It doesn't turn over at all only makes the spinning sound until you let go of the key. We did do that a couple months ago and the belt does not move.

    10. 10-04-2012 10:23 AM #10
      Yeah it seems like a possibility. But this wouldn't cause the car to die while already running like it did would it?

    11. 10-04-2012 10:24 AM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by carfreak01 View Post
      The only sound that it could make with the key turned is the starter motor and the sound of the engine cranking.
      You should have someone to turn the key and try to see if you can figure out where this noise is comming from.
      With ignition on, can you turn the radio on? do you see the indicator lights of the cluster on? can you turn the head lights on?
      Going to double check today. But I know all the dash lights work, pretty sure radio and headlights do too. I'll try to put up a youtube video of what it's doing.

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      10-04-2012 10:45 AM #12
      Like I said, it could be the starter motor. I would check that first. A relay that inhibits starting the engine, will prevent the starter from being energized and there will be no sounds when you turn the key.
      The only weird thing is that the engine suddenly stopped working.

      But if you cannot make the engine crank then you will not be able to diagnose any further.

      If all electrical devices work then all fuses might be ok, I'm not saying that they are but it is a high possibility that all are OK. Do NOT start pulling fuses out of their socket with the battery hooked because you could cause a trouble code.

      Make the engine crank and then diagnose why the engine suddenly stopped.

      Good luck.

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      10-04-2012 03:59 PM #13
      you never know what a simple fix can do.

      Quote Originally Posted by carfreak01 View Post
      Like I said, it could be the starter motor. I would check that first. A relay that inhibits starting the engine, will prevent the starter from being energized and there will be no sounds when you turn the key.
      The only weird thing is that the engine suddenly stopped working.

      But if you cannot make the engine crank then you will not be able to diagnose any further.

      If all electrical devices work then all fuses might be ok, I'm not saying that they are but it is a high possibility that all are OK. Do NOT start pulling fuses out of their socket with the battery hooked because you could cause a trouble code.

      Make the engine crank and then diagnose why the engine suddenly stopped.

      Good luck.

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      10-04-2012 07:04 PM #14
      Symptoms point to timing belt failure. Engine shutting off while driving and not starting. Sorry bro, bad bad. Have someone crank over the engine and you watch the belt. If the belt does not move while the crank pulley spins the valves are toast. Trust me.
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    15. 10-05-2012 01:28 AM #15
      So I made a video of what it's doing tonight and I also found something interesting. After attempting to start the car and leaving the key in the ON position you can hear a clicking or possibly an arcing noise coming from somewhere in the vicinity of the battery area. It stops as soon as you turn the key to the off position. And the clicking/arcing sound does change speeds, at times it gets faster.

      I turned out all lights and could not see any arcing, moved some of the cabling around. Didn't see anything poke out at me, although I'll look again in the day time. The serpentine belt does turn.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hFJE...&feature=g-upl
      Last edited by Silent99; 10-05-2012 at 01:34 AM.

    16. Member ps2375's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 02:24 AM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by Silent99 View Post
      The serpentine belt does turn.
      The serp belt turns and the timing belt does not turn = failed timing belt and 99.9% confirmed bent valves. I have seen exactly ONE 1.8T have a belt fail and not bend valves. It happened while the person was stopped at a stop sign.
      Tradition is the art of making the same mistake repeatedly, on purpose.

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      10-05-2012 09:45 AM #17
      Even though you didn't crank it for long, I didn't hear compression.
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    18. 10-05-2012 12:44 PM #18
      I scanned it with a vag-com today and got the following results.

      BEFORE attempting to start:
      VCDS-Lite Version: Release 1.0
      Friday, 05 October 2012, 12:34:55:0


      Chassis Type: 9M - VW Jetta IV
      Scan: 01,02,03,08,15,16,17,19,22,29,35,36,37,39,46,47,55 ,56,57,75,76

      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Address 01: Engine Labels: 06A-906-032-AWP.LBL
      Controller: 06A 906 032 HF
      Component: 1.8L R4/5VT G 0006
      Coding: 07550
      Shop #: WSC 00066
      3VWSE69M22M078618 VWZ7Z0A4054745
      9 Faults Found:
      16804 - Catalyst System; Bank 1: Efficiency Below Threshold
      P0420 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
      17837 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
      P1429 - 35-10 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent
      16684 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
      P0300 - 35-10 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent
      16688 - Cylinder 4: Misfire Detected
      P0304 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
      16686 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
      P0302 - 35-10 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent
      16687 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
      P0303 - 35-10 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent
      16725 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40): Implausible Signal
      P0341 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
      16486 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
      P0102 - 35-10 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent
      18034 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
      P1626 - 35-10 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent
      Readiness: 0000 0000

      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 09A-927-750.LBL
      Controller: 09A 927 750 T
      Component: AG5 Getriebe 09A 0162
      1 Fault Found:
      01166 - Engine Torque Signal
      16-10 -- Signal Outside Specifications - Intermittent

      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 1C0-907-37x-ASR.LBL
      Controller: 1C0 907 379 K
      Component: ASR FRONT MK60 0103
      Coding: 0018945
      Shop #: WSC 00066
      3 Faults Found:
      00668 - Supply Voltage Terminal 30
      008 -- Implausible Signal - Intermittent
      01315 - Transmission Control Module
      013 -- Check DTC Memory - Intermittent
      01328 - Convenience System Data Bus
      004 -- No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
      AFTER attempting to start:
      VCDS-Lite Version: Release 1.0
      Friday, 05 October 2012, 12:38:00:0


      Chassis Type: 9M - VW Jetta IV
      Scan: 01,02,03,08,15,16,17,19,22,29,35,36,37,39,46,47,55 ,56,57,75,76

      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Address 01: Engine Labels: 06A-906-032-AWP.LBL
      Controller: 06A 906 032 HF
      Component: 1.8L R4/5VT G 0006
      Coding: 07550
      Shop #: WSC 00066
      3VWSE69M22M078618 VWZ7Z0A4054745
      9 Faults Found:
      16804 - Catalyst System; Bank 1: Efficiency Below Threshold
      P0420 -- 35-10 - - - Intermittent
      17838 - Circuit for Brake Vacuum Pump: Open or Short to Plus
      P1430 -- 35-00 - -
      16697 - Misfire(s) Detected; Reason: Lack of Fuel
      P0313 -- 35-10 - - - Intermittent
      16692 - Cylinder 8: Misfire Detected
      P0308 -- 35-10 - - - Intermittent
      16700 - SAE - Engine Misfire Detected on Startup (First 1000 Revolutions)
      P0316 -- 35-10 - - - Intermittent
      16692 - Cylinder 8: Misfire Detected
      P0308 -- 35-10 - - - Intermittent
      16739 - Ignition Control Circuit for Cylinder 5: Malfunction
      P0355 -- 35-10 - - - Intermittent
      16492 - Manifold / Barometric Pressure Sensor (G71) / (F96): Signal too High
      P0108 -- 35-10 - - - Intermittent
      18040 - Accelerator Position Sensor (G79): Power Supply Malfunction
      P1632 -- 35-10 - - - Intermittent
      Readiness: 0000 0000

      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 09A-927-750.LBL
      Controller: 09A 927 750 T
      Component: AG5 Getriebe 09A 0162
      1 Fault Found:
      01166 - Engine Torque Signal
      16-10 -- Signal Outside Specifications - Intermittent

      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 1C0-907-37x-ASR.LBL
      Controller: 1C0 907 379 K
      Component: ASR FRONT MK60 0103
      Coding: 0018945
      Shop #: WSC 00066
      3 Faults Found:
      00668 - Supply Voltage Terminal 30
      008 -- Implausible Signal - Intermittent
      01315 - Transmission Control Module
      013 -- Check DTC Memory - Intermittent
      01328 - Convenience System Data Bus
      004 -- No Signal/Communication - Intermittent

    19. 10-05-2012 07:48 PM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by ps2375 View Post
      The serp belt turns and the timing belt does not turn = failed timing belt and 99.9% confirmed bent valves. I have seen exactly ONE 1.8T have a belt fail and not bend valves. It happened while the person was stopped at a stop sign.
      The serpentine belt turns and timing belt does not. However the timing belt looks tight, unless its stripped. Car has 93K miles. So basically if the serp belt moves and timing belt doesn't, valves are gone and there's it wouldn't run anyway?

    20. Member ps2375's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 11:06 PM #20
      Look at the bottom of the timing belt cover. You may see the teeth of the timing belt laying there.
      Tradition is the art of making the same mistake repeatedly, on purpose.

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      10-06-2012 06:46 PM #21
      looks like you broke something around the timing belt area... don't crank it anymore. open it up and see what happened. you may have to upper part of the engine and see how much damage you have. or if you have a tool with the camera that you can insert in the spart plug hole to see if the pistons hit the valve, then you can decide to remove the top part. maybe you didn't damage it but unlikely.

      Quote Originally Posted by Silent99 View Post
      The serpentine belt turns and timing belt does not. However the timing belt looks tight, unless its stripped. Car has 93K miles. So basically if the serp belt moves and timing belt doesn't, valves are gone and there's it wouldn't run anyway?

    22. Member ps2375's Avatar
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      10-06-2012 08:43 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by Silent99 View Post
      The serpentine belt turns and timing belt does not. However the timing belt looks tight, unless its stripped. Car has 93K miles. So basically if the serp belt moves and timing belt doesn't, valves are gone and there's it wouldn't run anyway?
      Again, with these symptoms, the belt has failed. You can try and replace the belt and see what happens. But, again, 99.99% that you have bent valves.
      Tradition is the art of making the same mistake repeatedly, on purpose.

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    23. 01-01-2014 11:10 PM #23
      So did you ever find out what it was!?

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      01-02-2014 09:11 AM #24
      i think he's pissed right now to tell us what happened with the engine. so give him a break.

      Quote Originally Posted by Jwayne8 View Post
      So did you ever find out what it was!?

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      01-02-2014 07:07 PM #25
      This happened to me...
      But. Only the exhaust valves were damaged... I say the best thing to do is take the valve cover off and see if the lifters are all up against the cams or if they are off the cams. Usually you can just torque the valve cover back on without replacing the gasket. You for sure can do a leak down test but, your going to have to take a look anyways, doesn't makes sense to "hope" that it didn't do any damage than actually investigate.
      Last edited by soxedace; 01-03-2014 at 01:15 PM.

    26. 01-03-2014 08:47 AM #26
      I experienced same issue the spinning sound was like electric motor. It is because the starter motor cannot engange with flywheel. And that can be the main reason your engine died and car stopped suddenly.

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      01-03-2014 01:15 PM #27
      I don't think this is a starter issue...

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