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    Thread: Toyota, for the love of God just stop trying and axe scion

    1. Member TetsuoShima's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 08:39 PM #1
      Scion targeting heavy metal, headbanger demographic



      Marketing to younger buyers can be a funny thing. Sometimes, the more you try to sell Generation XYZPDQ on a car, the more it ensures you will sell to older buyers looking to feel young again. Scion has been toying with this concept ever since it was founded in 2002. The Toyota offshoot's latest target? The heavy metal enthusiast scene.

      According to an AdWeek report, Scion thinks the heavy metal crowd has received a bad rap and is undervalued as a consumer base. To that end, Scion recently opened a gallery in Los Angeles that will feature works from U.K. artist French, among others. According to the report, Scion's vehicles will be on display as well, in case patrons want to go for a test drive after purchasing some artwork. Scion has also led an initiative to sponsor heavy metal concerts, albums and music videos. More than 1,700 artists have taken part in over 10,000 events around the country.

      This news strikes us as a tad perplexing. After trying for years to appeal to the tuner and enthusiast communities, the brand finally has a home run in the FR-S, a drift-happy coupe that begs to be tuned and modified. Then again, Scion says the metal crowd is "not necessarily trying to be a trendsetter, but more of a thought leader." If targeting that demographic helps the folks at Scion sell more iQ and tC models, more power to 'em. As long as it means enthusiasts still have machinery like the aforementioned FR-S to swoon over.
      Seriously, what the actual ****? lol I can't believe they are wasting time and money with this brand. What kind of a lame marketing move is this to try and inject some popularity into this pointless brand?

      Jesus, just axe it Toyota already

    2. Member mrbatavus's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 08:52 PM #2
      scions are super reliable and do appeal to younger kids..... whats wrong with that

    3. Geriatric Member ATL_Av8r's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 08:55 PM #3
      What are they trying to axe them? Is it a personal question Scion doesn't want to answer?
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    4. 10-03-2012 08:55 PM #4
      Toyota thought loyalists would move up from Scions to Toyotas like Toyota owners bought Lexus when they "made it", but the bottom segment is fickle and disloyal and Toyota would do better anyway to extend its good brand image rather than diluting it with the shameless marketing experiment that is Scion.

    5. 10-03-2012 08:55 PM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by TetsuoShima View Post
      Seriously, what the actual ****? lol I can't believe they are wasting time and money with this brand. What kind of a lame marketing move is this to try and inject some popularity into this pointless brand?

      Jesus, just axe it Toyota already
      Ya, I don't understand the entire point of this brand.

      I am in the target demographic too. People my age don't care that much about brands, unless it has a reaaaaally hard to shake image, like Buick with old people, etc.

      Toyota never had a bad brand image with young people, they just stopped making young people cars. Most young people remember the Supra and the souped up Celicas, even ****ty movies like Fast and Furious kept Toyota in the minds of young people. Toyota just stopped making those cars, and never tried to market a sporty car again.

      If they released the FR-S as a Toyota they would have just picked up where the Celicas and Supras left off and the young buyers would come back.

    6. Member TetsuoShima's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 08:56 PM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by mrbatavus View Post
      scions are super reliable and do appeal to younger kids..... whats wrong with that
      I just don't see the point of it. They don't really have any desirable models other than the TC and FR-S. Nobody really knows about the TC apparently because I rarely see them around, about the same frequency as I see E30 BMW's. Now they're wasting money trying to target heavy metal and head banger demographic? lol I don't even..

    7. Member TetsuoShima's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 08:58 PM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by WhistlerYOW View Post
      Ya, I don't understand the entire point of this brand.

      I am in the target demographic too. People my age don't care that much about brands, unless it has a reaaaaally hard to shake image, like Buick with old people, etc.

      Toyota never had a bad brand image with young people, they just stopped making young people cars. Most young people remember the Supra and the souped up Celicas, even ****ty movies like Fast and Furious kept Toyota in the minds of young people. Toyota just stopped making those cars, and never tried to market a sporty car again.

      If they released the FR-S as a Toyota they would have just picked up where the Celicas and Supras left off and the young buyers would come back.
      Exactly this. I guess they knew that and are now trying to put Scion on the map with the FR-S, but I still think they would've had more sales had they kept it a Toyota and stayed with the GT-86 name. I really don't understand what the hell they're trying to do with Scion. It's been like what 10 years now or something and it still hasn't really picked up?

    8. Member 1985Jetta's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 08:59 PM #8
      to this thread

    9. 10-03-2012 09:00 PM #9
      The Scion flare has been over for a few years now. It would be an easy merge to move current Scions into the Toyota nameplate, and Toyota would probably gain more sales due to the brand recognition.

    10. Member OrangeA4's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 09:10 PM #10
      can we post all the JDM equivalents of our Scion product?
      I mean what were talking about is just "rebranded" Scion as Toyota right?

      Ist, Rumion, IQ, FT86.

      Do you think the perception of these would be better if they were "Toyotas"?
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    11. Banned Hurt's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 09:18 PM #11

    12. Member TheDarkEnergist's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 09:18 PM #12
      Scions sell very well around here. They might not make any models YOU like, but they sell like hot cakes around here.

      They don't seem to be as flash-in-the-pan as you'd like them to be.

      Also...I really don't understand why ANY so-called enthusiast would want any car brands dead. Usually when brands compete the consumer benefits. I've never once thought "Damn there are just too many kinds of cars."
      Last edited by TheDarkEnergist; 10-03-2012 at 09:21 PM.
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    13. Member reticulan's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 09:24 PM #13
      Major corporations spend millions of dollars every year on marketing.

      You act like this is a new concept or something.

    14. 10-03-2012 09:26 PM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkEnergist View Post
      Also...I really don't understand why ANY so-called enthusiast would want any car brands dead. Usually when brands compete the consumer benefits. I've never once thought "Damn there are just too many kinds of cars."
      See, that's the thing. It's not real competition, it's just a Toyota with a different sticker on it. And really, you've never thought there were too many brands of cars? You didn't spend any time at a Pontiac/Buick/GMC/Chevrolet/Oldsmobile/Cadillac/Geo/Saturn dealer, did you?
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    15. Member 1985Jetta's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 09:28 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by Benkennedy11 View Post
      You didn't spend any time at a Pontiac/Buick/GMC/Chevrolet/Oldsmobile/Cadillac/Geo/Saturn dealer, did you?
      Yes, yes I did. More than BMW/Mini, and Toyota and Honda.

    16. Member TetsuoShima's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 09:30 PM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkEnergist View Post
      Scions sell very well around here. They might not make any models YOU like, but they sell like hot cakes around here.

      They don't seem to be as flash-in-the-pan as you'd like them to be.

      Also...I really don't understand why ANY so-called enthusiast would want any car brands dead. Usually when brands compete the consumer benefits. I've never once thought "Damn there are just too many kinds of cars."
      I don't want their cars dead, just the brand seems pointless to me. They can easily migrate their cars over to Toyota and gain a lot more sales. For example, what would be so hard in selling the TC as a Celica? I bet that would yield a hell of a lot more sales than leaving it as a TC under the Scion brand.

      Selling the FR-S as a GT-86 would also most likely yeild more sales since people love throwbacks, which is what the GT-86 is to the AE86. Keeping these cars under Scion seems to devalue them.

      Heritage goes a long way imo. Something that the Celica and AE86 have. There's no connection with what those cars are under Scion.

    17. Member IridiumB6's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 09:31 PM #17
      Kill the brand? No..Axe a couple models? Yeah perhaps..

      I think the tC has a real nice Lexus vibe to it (exterior looks only really) and of course the FR-S is a home run..I also think the Matrix would've done nicely as a Scion as well..certainly appears to be marketed towards a younger demographic.

    18. Member Volksboy's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 09:44 PM #18

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      10-03-2012 09:50 PM #19
      I was right in the target demo when Scion launched and I never understood the point of the brand. A decade ago there were 3 types of cars teenage guys like me and my friends cared about (we also loved luxury cars/sports cars/exotics but not many young guys can afford them): High-revving sport compacts (Civic Si, Integra GS-R/Type R, Celica GTS, etc.), RWD Pony Cars (Mustang, Camaro) and the new (at the time) rally-inspired cars (WRX, Evo). When I read about a brand launching cars targeted to young guys but not offering a car in even one of the aforementioned segments I was totally confused.
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      10-03-2012 10:32 PM #20
      There are a sh1t ton of scions around here. I see TC's nearly as much as I see new civics. Why would you kill the brand? Scion is really popular among younger buyers and with new products they will definitely continue to grow which means more competition, cooler cars, etc.
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    21. 10-03-2012 11:01 PM #21
      If I recalll correctly, Scions sales had peaked in 2006 with 170k+ units, now the nameplate is around 40k-50k in recent years with no real volume models.

    22. Senior Member Iroczgirl's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 11:13 PM #22
      Silly. I like heavy metal. I drive a '55 Ford.
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      10-03-2012 11:58 PM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by Iroczgirl View Post
      Silly. I like heavy metal. I drive a '55 Ford.
      Same, but I drive a Mini

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      10-04-2012 12:13 AM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by reticulan View Post
      Major corporations spend millions of dollars every year on marketing.

      You act like this is a new concept or something.
      This.

      At least they're taking a shot. I don't see the upside in doing nothing.
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    25. Member MidnightSpecial's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 12:34 AM #25
      Unless they bring the real second gen bB to N.A. and give us options on the FT-86... No.

      And that's the thing with the BRZ/FT twins here... One has the awesome interior and one doesn't, and that's what has persuaded my friends to go with Subaru.
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    26. 10-04-2012 12:51 AM #26
      Why would they axe the brand and how would doing so be any good for anyone? The TC, the FR-S and the IQ are super desirable vehicles and there's nothing else like then on the market and the xB and xD should be redesign soon making the brand even more appealing. I also love their no haggle pricing. you just walk into a dealer and and pay for the vehicle and whatever options you want without any dirtbag salesman trying to get you for more than the car is worth. No other brand offers that. If anything Scion should try to expand their lineup with something along the lines of a Jeep Wrangler

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      10-04-2012 01:12 AM #27


      This is my friend's grind band. Scion Records (yes, they put out metal records) released one of their albums as a CD and 10" record and puts them on their free metal fests they throw every once in awhile.

      Usually these events and releases have a very low Scion brand presence. Still, it is kind of mind-boggling to me that they bother because:

      1. This kind of music is obscure and not well-liked. Thousands of people read the car lounge and I'd be surprised to learn that even two of them could tolerate let alone enjoyed this kind of music.

      2. Fans of music like this are often pretty skeptical of corporations and their influence and, in my experience, exclusively drive 15 year old pieces of ****. You know, like I do.

      But I'm sure it costs them nothing in comparison to their overall marketing budget, and it's a pretty untargeted market... anyway I'd prefer it if huge corporations stayed away from this kind of music.
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    28. 10-04-2012 03:14 AM #28
      Ah, Saturn, how you have tried so hard and come so far, but you are still a brand that time may forget.

      wait, i meant Scion.

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    29. Member Mike!'s Avatar
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      10-04-2012 08:53 AM #29
      I think it's safe to say that every Scion model released in the last 10 years would not have been less successful if released as a Toyota instead. Some might not have been any more successful as Toyotas, but certainly no worse.

      If you look at it from a marketing perspective, the money spent on advertising Scion would be spent on advertising the same models as Toyotas anyway. What it gives them the opportunity to do is build a distinct brand with its own reputation. The problem is, other than for the most part them being no-options, one-trim cars, there's not much differentiating them from Toyota to build off of. Further, Toyota should be trying to bring enthusiasm and desirability to the mother brand, not concentrating it in a sub brand.

      xA / xD - Overlaps with Yaris and has never been successful. Now that Toyota is finally selling 5-door Yarises in the US, at least in some regions (another issue), it can safely go away and stay in Japan.

      xB - Kia is eating Toyota's lunch. Bring back a new-old xB and ride Kia's coattails to much better sales than you're getting now. Toyota bB

      iQ - It's already a Toyota iQ everywhere else. If it's worth keeping, just call it that.

      tC - Still has its niche. It's been Scion's most successful model since they upsized the xB. Call it Celica?

      FR-S - Toyota 86 and call it a day. Does anyone really think it would reduce sales if it was a Toyota rather than a Scion?

    30. Geriatric Member Turbio!'s Avatar
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      10-04-2012 09:01 AM #30
      Toyota needs to **** or get off the pot with Scion. They just seem to have no vision for what it's supposed to be, other than a bunch of marketing buzzwords. Personally, I think Scion could be cool if they actually invested some serious coin and effort into making it a worthy sub-brand. FR-S is a great start, now add a Countryman competitor, a true successor to the xB, an FR-S based sport sedan, a funky wagon, and a Veloster competitor.

      Or just shut the mother****er down and add all of the above models to the Toyota brand. Makes no difference. But limping along with two weird, unappealing hatches, a brilliant sports car, and a sorority girl two-door liftback...I don't see why any of those cars are not branded as Toyotas. They'd sell just as well.
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    31. Member 1985Jetta's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 09:08 AM #31
      It would be kind of boring if Scion didn't exist IMO. I don't see how Toyota can offer family vehicles and youthful vehicles.

    32. Geriatric Member Turbio!'s Avatar
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      10-04-2012 09:11 AM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by 1985Jetta View Post
      It would be kind of boring if Scion didn't exist IMO. I don't see how Toyota can offer family vehicles and youthful vehicles.
      Why couldn't they? Many brands do it just fine. VW, to name one. Subaru, for another. Honda has done so successfully, as has Chevrolet.

      Also, "youthful" vehicles miss the point. That's where I think Scion failed. Some people like more characterful vehicles, some like very conservative ones. Plenty of brands sell both. Marketers and executives hugely overestimate the power of a brand with car buyers; outside tier 1 luxury makes and maybe Mini and Jeep, people buy the car, not the brand. That's why so many elderly folks and Boomers bought xBs, which Scion would have preferred to see being driven by 21 year old snowboarders.
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    33. Member 1985Jetta's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 09:19 AM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio! View Post
      Why couldn't they? Many brands do it just fine. VW, to name one. Subaru, for another. Honda has done so successfully, as has Chevrolet.

      Also, "youthful" vehicles miss the point. That's where I think Scion failed. Some people like more characterful vehicles, some like very conservative ones. Plenty of brands sell both. Marketers and executives hugely overestimate the power of a brand with car buyers; outside tier 1 luxury makes and maybe Mini and Jeep, people buy the car, not the brand. That's why so many elderly folks and Boomers bought xBs, which Scion would have preferred to see being driven by 21 year old snowboarders.
      I understand what you're saying, but the auto industry would be boring without rebadged vehicles.

    34. Member TetsuoShima's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 09:22 AM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by 1985Jetta View Post
      It would be kind of boring if Scion didn't exist IMO. I don't see how Toyota can offer family vehicles and youthful vehicles.
      Are you 12? (Serious question).

      Because from the looks of it, you are probably too young to remember the 80's and 90's when Toyota offered the Corolla (RWD, "sporty" model AE86), the MR2, Supra and Celica while selling a family van - the Previa, boring FWD Corolla's and Camrys.

      No idea what you're going on about.
      Last edited by TetsuoShima; 10-04-2012 at 09:25 AM.

    35. Member TetsuoShima's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 09:24 AM #35
      They have lost their marketing touch I guess - They are trying to make this a Lexus success story but I think those things only happen once in a millenium

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