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    Thread: VW announces 2013 Jetta Hybrid pricing

    1. Senior Member feels_road's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 02:08 AM #1
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkswagen
      The latest member of the Jetta family offers competitive pricing, excellent fuel economy, and the fun-to-drive nature expected of a Volkswagen
      • Jetta Hybrid starts at $24,995*, with SE priced from $26,990
      • Most fuel-efficient Jetta in the lineup with manufacturer estimated combined fuel economy of 45 mpg**
      • World’s first hybrid to use a seven-speed dual-clutch automatic transmission
      • Fastest compact hybrid in its class with an estimated 0-60 mph of less than 9.0 seconds
      • Drives as a full EV at speeds of up to 44 mph
      • Premium features include LED taillights and Daytime Running Lights, plus Bi-Xenon headlights
      • Jetta range now extended to five different powertrains, providing a German-engineered compact sedan for everyone

      All prices exclude destination charges of $795 per vehicle.
      *Available by order only
      **Manufacturer estimate of fuel economy only; EPA results may vary


      Of course, you can also spec it out over $30,000...

      Press Release
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    2. Member Brimjolt's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 03:06 AM #2
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      10-04-2012 03:40 AM #3
      isn't the TDI easily capable of 45 mpg combined?
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    4. Member BODH1's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 03:44 AM #4
      Quote Originally Posted by kraut_pauer79 View Post
      isn't the TDI easily capable of 45 mpg combined?
      Yes.

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      10-04-2012 03:47 AM #5
      Trying to figure out the premium for the hybrid version. The premium over an SE with automatic is about $6k, but doesn't have the lights. The GLI with nav has the lights and comes with a $2k premium over the GLI without nav. So it appears the hybrid adds at least a $4k premium.
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      10-04-2012 03:49 AM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by Brimjolt View Post
      tdi
      3years ago, I'd agree.

      But my recent stint with the Skoda Yeti 1.2TSI have only cemented my desire for a similarly motorized car which can rival my current TDIs milage.

      On the highway a TDI is perfectly fine, but in town it's just too damn harsh and loud. The hybrid hopefully will improve on the latter scenario, and match the former.

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    7. Member stascom's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 04:19 AM #7
      I would imagine the TDI would be more consistent in returning high MPGs. The Hybrid would be sipping noticeably more fuel once the batteries discharge.

    8. Member Frostybunny's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 06:18 AM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by Dawg Dee-Lux View Post
      3years ago, I'd agree.

      But my recent stint with the Skoda Yeti 1.2TSI have only cemented my desire for a similarly motorized car which can rival my current TDIs milage.

      On the highway a TDI is perfectly fine, but in town it's just too damn harsh and loud. The hybrid hopefully will improve on the latter scenario, and match the former.
      Have you even driven a new TDI?

      I can't hear mine run under any normal circumstance, unless I rev the crap out of the engine (even then it's just a whisper)


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      But even your average idiot doesn't buy into crap like this! It takes special idiots. It's like you have to be an idiot, and then level up.

    9. Senior Member feels_road's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 06:37 AM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by kraut_pauer79 View Post
      isn't the TDI easily capable of 45 mpg combined?
      Neither EPA nor real world (50:50). Both the EPA city and highway cycles contain numerous accelerations and decelerations, cold starts, and A/C usage. No chance in hell: the 2013 TDI Jetta is rated at 34mpg combined.

      You might get 30mpg real world (inner-) city, and ~53 real-world highway @65mph and below, with the MT (no chance with the DSG). That averages to 38mpg (you need to average the inverse of mpg for fuel consumption). The only reason I average ~40mpg with my Golf is that I drive a lot of suburban/country roads. And of course, the Golf TDI with its standard sport suspension is actually a lot of fun to drive.

      Quote Originally Posted by stascom View Post
      I would imagine the TDI would be more consistent in returning high MPGs. The Hybrid would be sipping noticeably more fuel once the batteries discharge.
      That's not how a hybrid works. It does not "run out of battery" - it re-uses energy otherwise wasted during deceleration. But, yes, going 10,000' uphill at constant speed will not give you the best comparative mileage - just good mileage.

      That's why a Diesel is nice and good on the highway, and a hybrid is good for mixed driving with a significant (if not overwhelming) city component.

      And remember:

      Quote Originally Posted by Volkswagen
      Jetta range now extended to five different powertrains, providing a German-engineered compact sedan for everyone
      Aung San Suu Kyi

    10. Senior Member feels_road's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 06:42 AM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by Frostybunny View Post
      Have you even driven a new TDI?
      Have you looked at his profile? Also, before his TSI and 500 and another TSI, he owned another TDI... (IIRC).

      But, yes - the 2.0TDI with good sound insulation (as in the US) may be a little more refined than the Euro 1.6.
      Aung San Suu Kyi

    11. Member Shomegrown's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 06:55 AM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by Dawg Dee-Lux View Post
      3years ago, I'd agree.

      But my recent stint with the Skoda Yeti 1.2TSI have only cemented my desire for a similarly motorized car which can rival my current TDIs milage.

      On the highway a TDI is perfectly fine, but in town it's just too damn harsh and loud. The hybrid hopefully will improve on the latter scenario, and match the former.
      IMO, the 2.0 TDI has better NVH characteristics than the Jetta hybrid, especially at high RPM's. And it really misses the low/midrange grunt the TDI has.

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      10-04-2012 07:02 AM #12
      Let me start by saying I work on Volkswagen's for a living, so I've driven about every single model out there from the air-cooled up until the newest models. I was recently trained on the Jetta Hyrbid and I must say, it is a great car. My biggest criticism of the car was the market segment. I asked, "who would buy this car, when the TDi is available and will likely be cheaper?"
      After driving it, it was obvious. This is by far the most quiet vehicle that VW has ever made. There is no starter. The 1.4 TSi delivers great power while being nearly undetectable when it is running. When you are in "E-mode", which is all electric, it is dead silent, you can actually hear the actuators within the DSG doing their magic it is so quiet. The battery goes from drained to recharged in about two minutes, so the car will be giving you electric assist or all electric as much as it can.

      We took them on extended road trips (city and highway) and I was able to get about 52 mpg average according to the MFI. I went into the whole experience thinking I would never buy one over a TDi and I left thinking the opposite to be honest. I am not saying at all that the TDi is no good, because it is VERY good, but If you are an around town only type of driver than you are going to get far better fuel economy with the hyrbid.

      I liked the interior styling as well. The seats are made of "eco-leather", which is recycled leather basically, but they felt good and looked good. They were two tone as well. The dash was soft touch, which was a massive upgrade from the crap they used before. Navigation is standard also.

      Will the cost offset the milage benefits? I am not sure. Will they sell? I am not sure. Is it a good package? Yes it is.
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    13. Member Hajduk's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 08:21 AM #13
      How's the trunk space?

    14. Moderator rich!'s Avatar
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      10-04-2012 08:33 AM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by kraut_pauer79 View Post
      isn't the TDI easily capable of 45 mpg combined?
      i'd say high 30's (maybe 40-41 if you really try hard) combined based on personal experience

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    15. Member Shomegrown's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 08:33 AM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by Hajduk View Post
      How's the trunk space?
      Slightly compromised. It steps up a few inches in the middle for battery space.

    16. Member Hajduk's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 08:52 AM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by MJZman View Post
      Navigation is standard also.
      From the press release it looks like Nav is standard on the SEL which is $29K

    17. Geriatric Member Turbio!'s Avatar
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      10-04-2012 08:54 AM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by kraut_pauer79 View Post
      isn't the TDI easily capable of 45 mpg combined?
      It's possible to average 45mpg, but in a 50/50 mix of city/highway, no. Mid to high 30s would be realistic for combined mileage.
      Last edited by Turbio!; 10-04-2012 at 08:56 AM.
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    18. Member 200HP4dr's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 08:58 AM #18
      I'm a big fan of Hybrids, and I love the TDI's. Both my inlaws and my parents have TDi's, a 2012 and a 2010 respectively. My mom gets 43 and my FIL gets about 48. My old-tech hybrid gets about 44.5. My brother gets 50 out of his 2010 Prius and his wife gets 35 out of her CX-5.

      I welcome the multiple approaches, even if it raises the costs of some cars. My FIL drives a lot of highway miles, so the TDI works for him. My mom doesn't, and I think when she goes to replace her sport package TDI, she'll probably pick up a Jetta Hybrid.

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    19. 10-04-2012 09:03 AM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by feels_road View Post
      Neither EPA nor real world (50:50). Both the EPA city and highway cycles contain numerous accelerations and decelerations, cold starts, and A/C usage. No chance in hell: the 2013 TDI Jetta is rated at 34mpg combined.

      You might get 30mpg real world (inner-) city, and ~53 real-world highway @65mph and below, with the MT (no chance with the DSG). That averages to 38mpg (you need to average the inverse of mpg for fuel consumption). The only reason I average ~40mpg with my Golf is that I drive a lot of suburban/country roads. And of course, the Golf TDI with its standard sport suspension is actually a lot of fun to drive.



      That's not how a hybrid works. It does not "run out of battery" - it re-uses energy otherwise wasted during deceleration. But, yes, going 10,000' uphill at constant speed will not give you the best comparative mileage - just good mileage.

      That's why a Diesel is nice and good on the highway, and a hybrid is good for mixed driving with a significant (if not overwhelming) city component.

      And remember:
      So only NOW, after VW releases one, you're a hybrid defender?

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      10-04-2012 09:09 AM #20
      I've driven 2 TDI rentals in Europe (A4 and Passat) as well as a US spec Passat TDI and the European cars were definitely louder. US Passat is nice and quiet.

    21. Member 2.0T_Convert's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 09:09 AM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by Shomegrown View Post
      And truth be told, I had to floor that damn hybrid to keep up with the TDI at part throttle.
      So going by that I can expect once VW brings the downsized turbo engines to regular non-hybrids they will all be slow as dirt then

    22. Member ajd187's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 09:17 AM #22
      Where is the diesel hybrid? Do the two technologies not combine well, or are they waiting on that?

      If there is no technical limitation, that seems to be the ultimate combination for fuel economy.
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    23. Member Shomegrown's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 09:18 AM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by 2.0T_Convert View Post
      So going by that I can expect once VW brings the downsized turbo engines to regular non-hybrids they will all be slow as dirt then
      Sure.

      A downsized turbo gas engine makes far less hp and torque at 2500-3000 RPM than a TDI does. That applies to any automaker.

    24. Member Shomegrown's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 09:21 AM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by ajd187 View Post
      Where is the diesel hybrid? Do the two technologies not combine well, or are they waiting on that?

      If there is no technical limitation, that seems to be the ultimate combination for fuel economy.
      Give it a few more years. Right now the costs don't make it practical. Many people forget that automakers are out to make money, they are not charities. It's hard enough to make a profit on a hybrid alone. Add in a much more expensive diesel engine and you have a very uphill battle.

    25. Member Hajduk's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 09:24 AM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by 2.0T_Convert View Post
      So going by that I can expect once VW brings the downsized turbo engines to regular non-hybrids they will all be slow as dirt then
      I don't know, the Golf 7 does pretty well with the same engine. (0-60 in 8.4 seconds)

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      10-04-2012 09:28 AM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by ajd187 View Post
      Where is the diesel hybrid? Do the two technologies not combine well, or are they waiting on that?

      If there is no technical limitation, that seems to be the ultimate combination for fuel economy.
      It wouldn't be. At some point, the real-world efficiency benefit versus the substantial cost of a diesel (+$2000 to the cost of a car) combined with the substantial cost of a hybrid drivetrain (+ $2-4000) just ceases to make sense. You're not improving fuel economy at the rate you're jacking up the price on the car, and the diesel combustion strategy is so efficient anyway that the improvement would be fairly trivial. From the manufacturer's perspective, it just eats margins (due to higher cost to build) and prices the vehicle above what their customers are willing to pay for fuel economy.

      Also, plug-in hybrids offer much, much higher well-to-wheel efficiency and better emissions. By time you've put a diesel hybrid together, you're in PHEV pricing territory, and those are more efficient.
      Last edited by Turbio!; 10-04-2012 at 09:34 AM.
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      10-04-2012 09:30 AM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by Hajduk View Post
      I don't know, the Golf 7 does pretty well with the same engine. (0-60 in 8.4 seconds)
      But it will take so much effort to accelerate. Diesel > gasser

    28. 10-04-2012 09:38 AM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio! View Post
      It wouldn't be. At some point, the real-world efficiency benefit versus the substantial cost of a diesel (+$2000 to the cost of a car) combined with the substantial cost of a hybrid drivetrain (+ $2-4000) just ceases to make sense. You're not improving fuel economy at the rate you're jacking up the price on the car, and the diesel combustion strategy is so efficient anyway that the improvement would be fairly trivial. From the manufacturer's perspective, it just eats margins (due to higher cost to build) and prices the vehicle above what their customers are willing to pay for fuel economy.

      Also, plug-in hybrids offer much, much higher well-to-wheel efficiency and better emissions. By time you've put a diesel hybrid together, you're in PHEV pricing territory, and those are more efficient.
      Instead of combining the two, I've often wondered why diesels (and all non-hybrids for that matter) don't have some sort of stop-start tech added. After driving my wife's Prius for a few days, its annoying to hop into one of our other cars and then idle at a red light, or in drive throughs, or bumper to bumper traffic.

      You'd think it'd be an easy and relatively inexpensive thing to implement on a gas powered car and diesel's would likely improve their city mileage, somewhat negating the hybrid's traditional advantage.

    29. Member Shomegrown's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 09:39 AM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by 2.0T_Convert View Post
      But it will take so much effort to accelerate. Diesel > gasser
      It's not the effort, it's just not the way most people drive. IMO the 1.4 in the Jetta hybrid gets very thrashy at high RPM (I have no idea what RPM that is as it doesn't have a tach )

      And the fuel use goes up much quicker on a gas engine if you use those high RPM's.

      It's cliche, but the TDI's feel better than their on paper numbers describe - and that's because most people aren't flooring their cars all the time.

    30. Member horsty69's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 09:40 AM #30
      Id probably choose the Fusion Hybrid over this, but I would have to drive both first...just seems like the Fusion offers more car for essentially the same price.

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      10-04-2012 09:44 AM #31
      45 mpg combined for the TDI is on the high end of what people post at tdiclub.com. Many are at what I've been getting: 42 - 43 mpg.

    32. Member Hajduk's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 09:47 AM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by Shomegrown View Post
      It's another cost on top of an already expensive diesel engine. NVH is also much more difficult to manage on a diesel due to the high compression ratio.

      With that said, the A6/A7/A8/Q5 TDI's will have start-stop.
      Stop/start is also standard on the Golf 7 (diesel and petrol versions)

    33. Member Blonde Guy's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 09:49 AM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by horsty69 View Post
      Id probably choose the Fusion Hybrid over this, but I would have to drive both first...just seems like the Fusion offers more car for essentially the same price.
      I'm waiting for the Golf hybrid. Sounds way better than my TDI. I hope the sport package is still a part of the deal.

      I checked out a recent base Fusion vs a base Jetta, and for all the complaints, the Jetta is really much nicer than the Fusion in terms of interior materials. There must be a lot of difference between a base Fusion and the ones that reviewers get.

    34. Member Shomegrown's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 09:50 AM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by Hajduk View Post
      Stop/start is also standard on the Golf 7 (diesel and petrol versions)


      We'll see more and more of it. If/when the domestics release their vaporware diesels, I expect they'll have it too.

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      10-04-2012 09:50 AM #35
      I feel better about the impact of a TDI as opposed to the metals in the Li-ion battery that are toxic to plantlife and have a potential of creating toxic fluoro-organic compounds; but that's just me. Join the hybrid crowd sheeple, band wagon will wait.
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