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    Thread: VW announces 2013 Jetta Hybrid pricing

    1. Geriatric Member Turbio!'s Avatar
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      10-04-2012 09:28 AM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by ajd187 View Post
      Where is the diesel hybrid? Do the two technologies not combine well, or are they waiting on that?

      If there is no technical limitation, that seems to be the ultimate combination for fuel economy.
      It wouldn't be. At some point, the real-world efficiency benefit versus the substantial cost of a diesel (+$2000 to the cost of a car) combined with the substantial cost of a hybrid drivetrain (+ $2-4000) just ceases to make sense. You're not improving fuel economy at the rate you're jacking up the price on the car, and the diesel combustion strategy is so efficient anyway that the improvement would be fairly trivial. From the manufacturer's perspective, it just eats margins (due to higher cost to build) and prices the vehicle above what their customers are willing to pay for fuel economy.

      Also, plug-in hybrids offer much, much higher well-to-wheel efficiency and better emissions. By time you've put a diesel hybrid together, you're in PHEV pricing territory, and those are more efficient.
      Last edited by Turbio!; 10-04-2012 at 09:34 AM.
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    2. Member 2.0T_Convert's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 09:30 AM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by Hajduk View Post
      I don't know, the Golf 7 does pretty well with the same engine. (0-60 in 8.4 seconds)
      But it will take so much effort to accelerate. Diesel > gasser
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    3. Member pwm's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 09:38 AM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio! View Post
      It wouldn't be. At some point, the real-world efficiency benefit versus the substantial cost of a diesel (+$2000 to the cost of a car) combined with the substantial cost of a hybrid drivetrain (+ $2-4000) just ceases to make sense. You're not improving fuel economy at the rate you're jacking up the price on the car, and the diesel combustion strategy is so efficient anyway that the improvement would be fairly trivial. From the manufacturer's perspective, it just eats margins (due to higher cost to build) and prices the vehicle above what their customers are willing to pay for fuel economy.

      Also, plug-in hybrids offer much, much higher well-to-wheel efficiency and better emissions. By time you've put a diesel hybrid together, you're in PHEV pricing territory, and those are more efficient.
      Instead of combining the two, I've often wondered why diesels (and all non-hybrids for that matter) don't have some sort of stop-start tech added. After driving my wife's Prius for a few days, its annoying to hop into one of our other cars and then idle at a red light, or in drive throughs, or bumper to bumper traffic.

      You'd think it'd be an easy and relatively inexpensive thing to implement on a gas powered car and diesel's would likely improve their city mileage, somewhat negating the hybrid's traditional advantage.

    4. Member Shomegrown's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 09:39 AM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by 2.0T_Convert View Post
      But it will take so much effort to accelerate. Diesel > gasser
      It's not the effort, it's just not the way most people drive. IMO the 1.4 in the Jetta hybrid gets very thrashy at high RPM (I have no idea what RPM that is as it doesn't have a tach )

      And the fuel use goes up much quicker on a gas engine if you use those high RPM's.

      It's cliche, but the TDI's feel better than their on paper numbers describe - and that's because most people aren't flooring their cars all the time.

    5. Member horsty69's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 09:40 AM #30
      Id probably choose the Fusion Hybrid over this, but I would have to drive both first...just seems like the Fusion offers more car for essentially the same price.

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      10-04-2012 09:44 AM #31
      45 mpg combined for the TDI is on the high end of what people post at tdiclub.com. Many are at what I've been getting: 42 - 43 mpg.

    7. Member Hajduk's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 09:47 AM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by Shomegrown View Post
      It's another cost on top of an already expensive diesel engine. NVH is also much more difficult to manage on a diesel due to the high compression ratio.

      With that said, the A6/A7/A8/Q5 TDI's will have start-stop.
      Stop/start is also standard on the Golf 7 (diesel and petrol versions)

    8. Member Blonde Guy's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 09:49 AM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by horsty69 View Post
      Id probably choose the Fusion Hybrid over this, but I would have to drive both first...just seems like the Fusion offers more car for essentially the same price.
      I'm waiting for the Golf hybrid. Sounds way better than my TDI. I hope the sport package is still a part of the deal.

      I checked out a recent base Fusion vs a base Jetta, and for all the complaints, the Jetta is really much nicer than the Fusion in terms of interior materials. There must be a lot of difference between a base Fusion and the ones that reviewers get.

    9. Member Shomegrown's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 09:50 AM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by Hajduk View Post
      Stop/start is also standard on the Golf 7 (diesel and petrol versions)


      We'll see more and more of it. If/when the domestics release their vaporware diesels, I expect they'll have it too.

    10. Member FACTORYBOOST's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 09:50 AM #35
      I feel better about the impact of a TDI as opposed to the metals in the Li-ion battery that are toxic to plantlife and have a potential of creating toxic fluoro-organic compounds; but that's just me. Join the hybrid crowd sheeple, band wagon will wait.
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    11. Senior Member Sporin's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 09:55 AM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by kraut_pauer79 View Post
      isn't the TDI easily capable of 45 mpg combined?
      2012 Volkswagen Jetta — Diesel L4 Mileage

      There are 518 2012 Volkswagen Jettas (Diesel L4) with reported gas mileage parked at Fuelly
      http://www.fuelly.com/car/volkswagen...12/diesel%20l4

      Looks like mi-to-high 30's is the average.

    12. Member 2.0T_Convert's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 09:57 AM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by Shomegrown View Post
      It's not the effort, it's just not the way most people drive. IMO the 1.4 in the Jetta hybrid gets very thrashy at high RPM (I have no idea what RPM that is as it doesn't have a tach )

      And the fuel use goes up much quicker on a gas engine if you use those high RPM's.

      It's cliche, but the TDI's feel better than their on paper numbers describe - and that's because most people aren't flooring their cars all the time.
      Odd question but how does a TDI handle hot humid weather in those regular conditions?

      Only ask because right now I'm in south Florida and OMFG it feels like I have a 300 lb lead weight in the car when accelerating from a stop with the AC on. Turbo engine suffers I guess in the humidity. I feel like these conditions would be perfect for a hybrid, especially the non-turbo gasoline engine versions provided they have a good stock battery cooling setup.
      Sent from my tablet while sipping weak drinks over fancy brunch with a view

    13. Member ajd187's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 09:58 AM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio! View Post
      It wouldn't be. At some point, the real-world efficiency benefit versus the substantial cost of a diesel (+$2000 to the cost of a car) combined with the substantial cost of a hybrid drivetrain (+ $2-4000) just ceases to make sense. You're not improving fuel economy at the rate you're jacking up the price on the car, and the diesel combustion strategy is so efficient anyway that the improvement would be fairly trivial. From the manufacturer's perspective, it just eats margins (due to higher cost to build) and prices the vehicle above what their customers are willing to pay for fuel economy.

      Also, plug-in hybrids offer much, much higher well-to-wheel efficiency and better emissions. By time you've put a diesel hybrid together, you're in PHEV pricing territory, and those are more efficient.
      That's a good point, I wasn't thinking about the cost, only the technology combination. Also didn't know about the diesel combustion strategy.

      It sounds like they are different technologies, that get similar MPG in slightly different applications. Choice like that is always good..
      Quote Originally Posted by J-Tim View Post
      Still fail to see how a jacked up hatchback or wagon is better than the standard height one. Yes, putting the kid may require you to bend down a bit, but if the car is German, you're kind of used to that anyway.

    14. 10-04-2012 10:04 AM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
      45 mpg combined for the TDI is on the high end of what people post at tdiclub.com. Many are at what I've been getting: 42 - 43 mpg.
      Which is comparable to most hybrids out today....so my pick would be the TDI personally.

    15. Member clutchrider's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 10:08 AM #40
      It has pretty much all the features most hybrid shoppers are looking for. It seems right in line with the pricing of the TDI which makes sense. Kinda gives people the option of going diesel or hybrid. Similar returns yet two different ways of providing it. They are just allowing for people who are more accustomed to a hybrid and are weary about diesel to join VW.

      Smart business. It will probably do pretty well against the competition. The only competitor in this segment is the Civic Hybrid (Eco cars don't count without a similar powertrain).

    16. Member BetterByDesign's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 10:18 AM #41
      Is this a Volkswgen with a big battery....cause.....NO.
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    17. Member 2.0T_Convert's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 10:19 AM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by clutchrider View Post
      Smart business. It will probably do pretty well against the competition. The only competitor in this segment is the Civic Hybrid (Eco cars don't count without a similar powertrain).
      I would also call the Fusion, Camry, Sonata, Optima, and Altima (is there a hybrid anymore?) competition. The Jetta is of a size and conservative sedan style it may also appeal to buyers of these cars. Pricing is also comparable.

      Compared to what I would call the class leading Fusion it is a near mirror image price wise with heated leather and navigation.
      Sent from my tablet while sipping weak drinks over fancy brunch with a view

    18. Member rich!'s Avatar
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      10-04-2012 10:28 AM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by 2.0T_Convert View Post
      Odd question but how does a TDI handle hot humid weather in those regular conditions?

      Only ask because right now I'm in south Florida and OMFG it feels like I have a 300 lb lead weight in the car when accelerating from a stop with the AC on. Turbo engine suffers I guess in the humidity..
      just like any turbo car in hot and humid weather... i probably notice a 2-3mpg difference between our mild to hot seasons
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      10-04-2012 10:33 AM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by Dawg Dee-Lux View Post

      On the highway a TDI is perfectly fine, but in town it's just too damn harsh and loud. The hybrid hopefully will improve on the latter scenario, and match the former.
      huh?

      The current line of common rails are very quiet, actually my TDI is the quietest car I own and it may or may not even have the DPF still ..

      For a split second leaving the line there is a tiny bit of diesel rattle but then it smooths out. With the windows open cruising in a city environment it is no louder then my 1.8t or my 2.0t when they were stock.

    20. Banned WhistlerYOW's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 10:37 AM #45
      At least the hybrid won't have a $10000 HPFP explosion

    21. Senior Member dunhamjr's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 10:39 AM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by WhistlerYOW View Post
      At least the hybrid won't have a $10000 HPFP explosion
      no, just a $10k battery failure
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      10-04-2012 10:43 AM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by kraut_pauer79 View Post
      isn't the TDI easily capable of 45 mpg combined?
      Easily no,

      possible yes.

      45+ highway with a manual is possible without too much effort, my former commute was about 15 miles highway and 10 city which I got about 38-40 regularly and 42ish if I tried.



      The city figures are what will really bring the diesel down and the hybrid up on the combined.

    23. Member Chmeeee's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 10:47 AM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by feels_road View Post
      And remember:
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkswagen
      Jetta range now extended to five different powertrains, providing a German-engineered compact sedan for everyone
      Thank you VWOA marketing assistant.
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    24. Member romanl's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 10:48 AM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by feels_road View Post
      Neither EPA nor real world (50:50). Both the EPA city and highway cycles contain numerous accelerations and decelerations, cold starts, and A/C usage. No chance in hell: the 2013 TDI Jetta is rated at 34mpg combined.
      You might get 30mpg real world (inner-) city, and ~53 real-world highway @65mph and below, with the MT (no chance with the DSG). That averages to 38mpg (you need to average the inverse of mpg for fuel consumption). The only reason I average ~40mpg with my Golf is that I drive a lot of suburban/country roads. And of course, the Golf TDI with its standard sport suspension is actually a lot of fun to drive.
      That's not how a hybrid works. It does not "run out of battery" - it re-uses energy otherwise wasted during deceleration. But, yes, going 10,000' uphill at constant speed will not give you the best comparative mileage - just good mileage.
      That's why a Diesel is nice and good on the highway, and a hybrid is good for mixed driving with a significant (if not overwhelming) city component.
      And remember:

      so what are you averaging with your TDI ?
      first let me say: i welcome any new technology that improves where auto industry is heading. that said. i will still pick my TDI
      all i can say: to average 45MPG in current TDI is doable but not extremely easy to do it tank after tank after tank if you live in a major city. but i blame this mainly on drivers.

      what i'm going of: i live in Los Angeles (Long Beach) and commute to work near Santa Monica.
      my daily commute is 30 miles each way, and lately its been averaging about 1 hour each way, so lots of traffic. but even in those condition my running average (last 10 fill ups) is 45.3 MPG (so technically it can be done)
      my overall average since i bought the car (52,1xx miles / 94 fill ups) is 42 MPG,
      my average has been going up since car is broken in, i've seen serious average jump in MPGs after 30,000 miles.

      so there you have 45 MPG real works with tons of city driving, very much doable.

    25. Member romanl's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 10:50 AM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by chris@revotechnik View Post
      Easily no,

      possible yes.
      45+ highway with a manual is possible without too much effort, my former commute was about 15 miles highway and 10 city which i got about 38-40 regularly and 42ish if I tried.
      The city figures are what will really bring the diesel down and the hybrid up on the combined.
      well said, i tend to go into long articles when trying to do the same

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