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    Thread: VW announces 2013 Jetta Hybrid pricing

    1. Senior Member Sporin's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 09:55 AM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by kraut_pauer79 View Post
      isn't the TDI easily capable of 45 mpg combined?
      2012 Volkswagen Jetta — Diesel L4 Mileage

      There are 518 2012 Volkswagen Jettas (Diesel L4) with reported gas mileage parked at Fuelly
      http://www.fuelly.com/car/volkswagen...12/diesel%20l4

      Looks like mi-to-high 30's is the average.
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    2. Member 2.0T_Convert's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 09:57 AM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by Shomegrown View Post
      It's not the effort, it's just not the way most people drive. IMO the 1.4 in the Jetta hybrid gets very thrashy at high RPM (I have no idea what RPM that is as it doesn't have a tach )

      And the fuel use goes up much quicker on a gas engine if you use those high RPM's.

      It's cliche, but the TDI's feel better than their on paper numbers describe - and that's because most people aren't flooring their cars all the time.
      Odd question but how does a TDI handle hot humid weather in those regular conditions?

      Only ask because right now I'm in south Florida and OMFG it feels like I have a 300 lb lead weight in the car when accelerating from a stop with the AC on. Turbo engine suffers I guess in the humidity. I feel like these conditions would be perfect for a hybrid, especially the non-turbo gasoline engine versions provided they have a good stock battery cooling setup.
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    3. Member ajd187's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 09:58 AM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio! View Post
      It wouldn't be. At some point, the real-world efficiency benefit versus the substantial cost of a diesel (+$2000 to the cost of a car) combined with the substantial cost of a hybrid drivetrain (+ $2-4000) just ceases to make sense. You're not improving fuel economy at the rate you're jacking up the price on the car, and the diesel combustion strategy is so efficient anyway that the improvement would be fairly trivial. From the manufacturer's perspective, it just eats margins (due to higher cost to build) and prices the vehicle above what their customers are willing to pay for fuel economy.

      Also, plug-in hybrids offer much, much higher well-to-wheel efficiency and better emissions. By time you've put a diesel hybrid together, you're in PHEV pricing territory, and those are more efficient.
      That's a good point, I wasn't thinking about the cost, only the technology combination. Also didn't know about the diesel combustion strategy.

      It sounds like they are different technologies, that get similar MPG in slightly different applications. Choice like that is always good..
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    4. 10-04-2012 10:04 AM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
      45 mpg combined for the TDI is on the high end of what people post at tdiclub.com. Many are at what I've been getting: 42 - 43 mpg.
      Which is comparable to most hybrids out today....so my pick would be the TDI personally.

    5. Member clutchrider's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 10:08 AM #40
      It has pretty much all the features most hybrid shoppers are looking for. It seems right in line with the pricing of the TDI which makes sense. Kinda gives people the option of going diesel or hybrid. Similar returns yet two different ways of providing it. They are just allowing for people who are more accustomed to a hybrid and are weary about diesel to join VW.

      Smart business. It will probably do pretty well against the competition. The only competitor in this segment is the Civic Hybrid (Eco cars don't count without a similar powertrain).

    6. Member BetterByDesign's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 10:18 AM #41
      Is this a Volkswgen with a big battery....cause.....NO.
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    7. Member 2.0T_Convert's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 10:19 AM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by clutchrider View Post
      Smart business. It will probably do pretty well against the competition. The only competitor in this segment is the Civic Hybrid (Eco cars don't count without a similar powertrain).
      I would also call the Fusion, Camry, Sonata, Optima, and Altima (is there a hybrid anymore?) competition. The Jetta is of a size and conservative sedan style it may also appeal to buyers of these cars. Pricing is also comparable.

      Compared to what I would call the class leading Fusion it is a near mirror image price wise with heated leather and navigation.
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      10-04-2012 10:28 AM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by 2.0T_Convert View Post
      Odd question but how does a TDI handle hot humid weather in those regular conditions?

      Only ask because right now I'm in south Florida and OMFG it feels like I have a 300 lb lead weight in the car when accelerating from a stop with the AC on. Turbo engine suffers I guess in the humidity..
      just like any turbo car in hot and humid weather... i probably notice a 2-3mpg difference between our mild to hot seasons
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      10-04-2012 10:33 AM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by Dawg Dee-Lux View Post

      On the highway a TDI is perfectly fine, but in town it's just too damn harsh and loud. The hybrid hopefully will improve on the latter scenario, and match the former.
      huh?

      The current line of common rails are very quiet, actually my TDI is the quietest car I own and it may or may not even have the DPF still ..

      For a split second leaving the line there is a tiny bit of diesel rattle but then it smooths out. With the windows open cruising in a city environment it is no louder then my 1.8t or my 2.0t when they were stock.

    10. 10-04-2012 10:37 AM #45
      At least the hybrid won't have a $10000 HPFP explosion

    11. Senior Member dunhamjr's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 10:39 AM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by WhistlerYOW View Post
      At least the hybrid won't have a $10000 HPFP explosion
      no, just a $10k battery failure
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      10-04-2012 10:43 AM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by kraut_pauer79 View Post
      isn't the TDI easily capable of 45 mpg combined?
      Easily no,

      possible yes.

      45+ highway with a manual is possible without too much effort, my former commute was about 15 miles highway and 10 city which I got about 38-40 regularly and 42ish if I tried.



      The city figures are what will really bring the diesel down and the hybrid up on the combined.

    13. Member Chmeeee's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 10:47 AM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by feels_road View Post
      And remember:
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkswagen
      Jetta range now extended to five different powertrains, providing a German-engineered compact sedan for everyone
      Thank you VWOA marketing assistant.
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    14. Member romanl's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 10:48 AM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by feels_road View Post
      Neither EPA nor real world (50:50). Both the EPA city and highway cycles contain numerous accelerations and decelerations, cold starts, and A/C usage. No chance in hell: the 2013 TDI Jetta is rated at 34mpg combined.
      You might get 30mpg real world (inner-) city, and ~53 real-world highway @65mph and below, with the MT (no chance with the DSG). That averages to 38mpg (you need to average the inverse of mpg for fuel consumption). The only reason I average ~40mpg with my Golf is that I drive a lot of suburban/country roads. And of course, the Golf TDI with its standard sport suspension is actually a lot of fun to drive.
      That's not how a hybrid works. It does not "run out of battery" - it re-uses energy otherwise wasted during deceleration. But, yes, going 10,000' uphill at constant speed will not give you the best comparative mileage - just good mileage.
      That's why a Diesel is nice and good on the highway, and a hybrid is good for mixed driving with a significant (if not overwhelming) city component.
      And remember:

      so what are you averaging with your TDI ?
      first let me say: i welcome any new technology that improves where auto industry is heading. that said. i will still pick my TDI
      all i can say: to average 45MPG in current TDI is doable but not extremely easy to do it tank after tank after tank if you live in a major city. but i blame this mainly on drivers.

      what i'm going of: i live in Los Angeles (Long Beach) and commute to work near Santa Monica.
      my daily commute is 30 miles each way, and lately its been averaging about 1 hour each way, so lots of traffic. but even in those condition my running average (last 10 fill ups) is 45.3 MPG (so technically it can be done)
      my overall average since i bought the car (52,1xx miles / 94 fill ups) is 42 MPG,
      my average has been going up since car is broken in, i've seen serious average jump in MPGs after 30,000 miles.

      so there you have 45 MPG real works with tons of city driving, very much doable.

    15. Member romanl's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 10:50 AM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by chris@revotechnik View Post
      Easily no,

      possible yes.
      45+ highway with a manual is possible without too much effort, my former commute was about 15 miles highway and 10 city which i got about 38-40 regularly and 42ish if I tried.
      The city figures are what will really bring the diesel down and the hybrid up on the combined.
      well said, i tend to go into long articles when trying to do the same

    16. Swallow Doretti
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      10-04-2012 10:54 AM #51
      Quote Originally Posted by 2.0T_Convert View Post
      I would also call the Fusion, Camry, Sonata, Optima, and Altima (is there a hybrid anymore?) competition. The Jetta is of a size and conservative sedan style it may also appeal to buyers of these cars. Pricing is also comparable.
      The Fusion is an expensive puppy, no matter how you slice it, though it's far nicer inside than the Jetta. The Optima and Sonata are definitely cheaper, but they're also crap, so that's a problem. The Camry is both good and inexpensive, plus there's also that pesky Prius, and both are bigger and more nicely appointed than the Jetta.

      The problem with the Jetta Hybrid is the fact that there's still a Jetta underneath it at pricing that mirrors better cars.

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      10-04-2012 11:01 AM #52
      I actually saw a Jetta Hybrid in a parking lot in downtown Toronto the other day. It looked just like a regular Jetta except it said Hybrid on the side.

      And that's all I have to add to this conversation.
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      10-04-2012 11:02 AM #53
      Quote Originally Posted by Swallow Doretti View Post
      The problem with the Jetta Hybrid is the fact that there's still a Jetta underneath it at pricing that mirrors better cars.
      I have nothing to back this up but the fact it is a Jetta works in favor of the hybrid.

      The general public I feel especially young females have a soft spot for the Jetta as a premium German car on a budget.
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      10-04-2012 11:06 AM #54
      Quote Originally Posted by ajd187 View Post
      Where is the diesel hybrid? Do the two technologies not combine well, or are they waiting on that?

      If there is no technical limitation, that seems to be the ultimate combination for fuel economy.
      They're out there. Just not here
      http://www.peugeot.com/en/products-s...t-3008-hybrid4

      Diesel hybrids do exist

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      10-04-2012 11:07 AM #55
      Quote Originally Posted by Swallow Doretti View Post
      The Fusion is an expensive puppy, no matter how you slice it, though it's far nicer inside than the Jetta. .
      Not only is it far nicer inside...it costs essentially the same as the Jetta Hybrid, so Im not sure why you think it is so expensive.

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      10-04-2012 11:26 AM #56
      Quote Originally Posted by Swallow Doretti View Post
      , plus there's also that pesky Prius.
      And this is the issue. The Prius has better fuel economy and a stronger brand, and it costs the same. What reason do I have, as a prospective hybrid buyer, to go VW?
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      10-04-2012 11:30 AM #57
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio! View Post
      And this is the issue. The Prius has better fuel economy and a stronger brand, and it costs the same. What reason do I have, as a prospective hybrid buyer, to go VW?
      not being associated as another PRIUS drive is good enough reason
      i dunno what it is, but here in SoCal i swear they are the worst drivers on the road

    23. Member 2.0T_Convert's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 11:31 AM #58
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio! View Post
      And this is the issue. The Prius has better fuel economy and a stronger brand, and it costs the same. What reason do I have, as a prospective hybrid buyer, to go VW?
      The same reasons people choose a Jetta 2.5 SE over a Ford Focus, Chevy Cruze, Hyundai Elantra, etc..

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      10-04-2012 11:33 AM #59
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio! View Post
      And this is the issue. The Prius has better fuel economy and a stronger brand, and it costs the same. What reason do I have, as a prospective hybrid buyer, to go VW?
      I can't imagine that VW could have managed to give the Jetta Hybrid worse driving dynamics than the Prius, so there's that.
      Quote Originally Posted by Captain 'Murica! View Post
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    25. 10-04-2012 11:34 AM #60
      Quote Originally Posted by 2.0T_Convert View Post
      Odd question but how does a TDI handle hot humid weather in those regular conditions?

      Only ask because right now I'm in south Florida and OMFG it feels like I have a 300 lb lead weight in the car when accelerating from a stop with the AC on. Turbo engine suffers I guess in the humidity. I feel like these conditions would be perfect for a hybrid, especially the non-turbo gasoline engine versions provided they have a good stock battery cooling setup.
      vw's in general dont seem to handle florida weather well at all, cv joints cracking early, interior can't hold up to the heat. I do think a bigger intercooler would help on your gti though.

      Since the pricing was announced, was the Jetta Hybrid release already for sale? My friend saw one yesterday so I dont think it was a preproduction, but wouldnt be surprised if it was due to the testing facility nearby

    26. Member Shomegrown's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 11:42 AM #61
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio! View Post
      And this is the issue. The Prius has better fuel economy and a stronger brand, and it costs the same. What reason do I have, as a prospective hybrid buyer, to go VW?
      Because it looks like a normal car and drives like a normal car.

      It's no worse to drive than a Jetta 2.5 or TDI.

      There are people who are turned off by the look and drive of the Prius. VW isn't looking to nab the people who buy the Prius as an appliance.

      I think they'll get people who now aren't perspective hybrid drivers. Maybe they were considering a regular Jetta or TDI Jetta.

    27. Member Professor Gascan's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 11:43 AM #62
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio! View Post
      And this is the issue. The Prius has better fuel economy and a stronger brand, and it costs the same. What reason do I have, as a prospective hybrid buyer, to go VW?
      For me: no center mounted gauges, no CVT, no suppository-esque styling (though the current one is reasonable.) But I'm not a normal person either.
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      10-04-2012 11:45 AM #63
      Quote Originally Posted by chris@revotechnik View Post
      45+ highway with a manual is possible without too much effort ...
      46.8 and 45.3 mpg in 2010 and 2011, respectively, with my JSW TDI for our annual 1,400-mile vacation trip to OBX. Two bikes and a weeks' worth of food and suitcases fit in the JSW.


      20.8, 21.5, and 22 mpg for the trip in 2007 -2009 with two bikes on the roof of my '03 A4 Avant 3.0q.

      Just returned home on Saturday night from the trip in my wife's Escape Limited Hybrid. 31.8 mpg with two bikes on a rear hitch bike rack. Not bad.

    29. Member genjy's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 11:45 AM #64
      Why are all the TDI fanbois mad and defensive?

    30. Member Shomegrown's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 11:45 AM #65
      Quote Originally Posted by 2.0T_Convert View Post
      Odd question but how does a TDI handle hot humid weather in those regular conditions?

      Only ask because right now I'm in south Florida and OMFG it feels like I have a 300 lb lead weight in the car when accelerating from a stop with the AC on. Turbo engine suffers I guess in the humidity. I feel like these conditions would be perfect for a hybrid, especially the non-turbo gasoline engine versions provided they have a good stock battery cooling setup.
      I never noticed a difference in my Passat up to almost 100*F. I've driven many TDI's in Death Valley and you do notice when it gets really hot, but that applies to any car.

    31. Member Shomegrown's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 11:46 AM #66
      Quote Originally Posted by genjy View Post
      Why are all the TDI fanbois mad and defensive?
      Who is mad?

    32. Member batman25's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 11:53 AM #67
      came here for transmission

      saw DSG

      left satisfied.

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      10-04-2012 11:53 AM #68
      Quote Originally Posted by Shomegrown View Post
      Who is mad?
      Nobody gets mad but some of us get a but doubtful when talk comes up about beating on a TDI all day and getting 45+ MPG or or easy super amazing fuel economy is. Because for some reason real life averages for thousands of owners on websites like fuelly don't match this expectation.
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      10-04-2012 12:02 PM #69
      It's kind of neat that VW is willing to offer us a big variety powerplants in the Jetta range, not so different than far more expensive cars from Mercedes for example. I think I'm a bit more of a fan of the diesel powered cars just based on the torque figures and availability of a manual transmission. But if I was seriously in the market for a car with good gas mileage, I'd have to at least give the hybrid a try. The DSG might change my impression of things quite a bit.

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      10-04-2012 12:02 PM #70
      Quote Originally Posted by Shomegrown View Post
      Because it looks like a normal car and drives like a normal car.
      .
      So does the Prius. There are weirder-looking Audis. Kammback hatches have been on the market for decades, and this particular one has been around for over a decade. It's normal now.

      Quote Originally Posted by Shomegrown View Post
      It's no worse to drive than a Jetta 2.5 or TDI.

      There are people who are turned off by the look and drive of the Prius. VW isn't looking to nab the people who buy the Prius as an appliance.

      I think they'll get people who now aren't perspective hybrid drivers. Maybe they were considering a regular Jetta or TDI Jetta.
      I frankly doubt those people were in the market for a hybrid to begin with, seeing as other "normal" looking and driving hybrids have struggled mightily in the marketplace. I don't think the Jetta offers anything that the tepid-selling Civic, Camry, Altima, and Accord hybrids don't or didn't, and my years on this site lead me to doubt mightily that VW fans are so interested in hybrids that a dedicated Jetta intender would be terribly tempted.

      Don't get me wrong, it'll meet its modest goals, but it's not really anything to make anybody sit up and notice.
      Last edited by Turbio!; 10-04-2012 at 12:11 PM.
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