Username or Email Address
Do you already have an account?
Forgot your password?
  • Log in or Sign up

    VWVortex


    The Car Lounge
    Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
    Results 1 to 35 of 198

    Thread: Will I Ever Be Able To Go Back To a "Normal" Naturally Aspirated Engine?

    Hybrid View

    1. Member SchnellFowVay's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 20th, 2001
      Location
      Las Vegas, NV
      Posts
      10,912
      Vehicles
      Bent M
      10-04-2012 06:19 PM #1
      My last car was a modified 2007 GTI putting out ~280hp. My current car is an N55 putting out ~400hp and ~500lbs of torque.

      BUt more imortant than the power is the "rubberband" feel of the turbocharger. Sometimes I think I miss the smoothness of an N/A engine (such as when I almost bought an S2000 last month), but then I drive most N/A engines, and they simply do not feel "fast" at all. It feels like the car is actually stuck in mollases around 2,500-3,000 RPMS where a normal turbocharged car starts building serious boost.

      Case in point: My wife's 128i 6-speed. The car goes 0-60 in about 6 seconds (fairly fast), but to me it feels legitimately slow. I am currently driving a loaner 328i M-Sport while my car is at the dealer, and even in sport mode with the gas floored, the car feels really, really slow.

      I remember how much I used to love unwinding my cammed VR6 back in the day.

      Has anyone here successfully transitioned from a high-power turbo car back to a more "sedate" naturally aspirated engine and been able to enjoy it again?
      2000 BMW M Roadster - 5-speed
      2014 Mazda Mazda6 - 6-speed
      2013 Subaru Crosstrek XV - 5-speed
      2013 Honda Civic LX Sedan - Nannymobile

    2. Member GTE77's Avatar
      Join Date
      Sep 2nd, 2009
      Location
      Florida / Rio de Janeiro
      Posts
      4,074
      Vehicles
      Puma GTE / Audi A3 8L
      10-04-2012 06:24 PM #2
      This thread will be all kind of greatness

    3. Member SchnellFowVay's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 20th, 2001
      Location
      Las Vegas, NV
      Posts
      10,912
      Vehicles
      Bent M
      10-04-2012 06:30 PM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by GTE77 View Post
      This thread will be all kind of greatness
      That was the goal.

      But it's also a serious question.
      2000 BMW M Roadster - 5-speed
      2014 Mazda Mazda6 - 6-speed
      2013 Subaru Crosstrek XV - 5-speed
      2013 Honda Civic LX Sedan - Nannymobile

    4. Member
      Join Date
      Oct 2nd, 2003
      Location
      Washington, D.C.
      Posts
      1,125
      Vehicles
      2002 WRX 2.5L/6 Speed/Rotated GT30R
      10-04-2012 06:26 PM #4
      I will be doing this shortly, most likely switching to a M3 or something similar. Turbochargers are fun when you are in the right rev range, but I prefer a smoother powerband. Albeit with less power, but for daily driving it makes more sense.

      Now that I've experienced a high-power car, I want a more balanced or handling-focused machine.

    5. Member Louie Bricants's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 10th, 2009
      Posts
      3,401
      Vehicles
      95 Flatshred VRGTI 88 Marine Blue Coupe 87 4Runner
      10-04-2012 06:29 PM #5
      If you want a NA vehicle that will make a 400HP Turbo car feel slow then buy a 2007 up Z06.
      planetcaravan

    6. Member Sir UNBANNED_GERBIL M.B.'s Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 15th, 2003
      Location
      Mississauga, Ont.
      Posts
      12,218
      Vehicles
      His + Hers = 815hp
      10-04-2012 06:30 PM #6
      I went from a modded MKV GTI to my NA A4. The A4 atleast has 90% of max torks at 1800rpm with the 3.2 V6. It feels every bit as quick

    7. Member SchnellFowVay's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 20th, 2001
      Location
      Las Vegas, NV
      Posts
      10,912
      Vehicles
      Bent M
      10-04-2012 06:31 PM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by Louie Bricants View Post
      If you want a NA vehicle that will make a 400HP Turbo car feel slow then buy a 2007 up Z06.
      I drove a standard C6 (NON-Z06) and it certainly felt fast. But again, it was lacking the "woosh" sensation you get in a T/C'ed car.

      I don't doubt that at a high enough power level (Z06, Gallardo, 458), it just feels ridiculously fast no matter what.

      But I am curious if, for example, somehow on here has gone from a WRX to an S2000 and enjoyed it?
      2000 BMW M Roadster - 5-speed
      2014 Mazda Mazda6 - 6-speed
      2013 Subaru Crosstrek XV - 5-speed
      2013 Honda Civic LX Sedan - Nannymobile

    8. 10-04-2012 06:33 PM #8
      Adapt your butt-o-meter and be done.
      2007 E90 AW 323i Step | Lowered 1.25"/1" | BMW Performance Exhaust | Debadged | Scangauge II | Style 162 18" & 161 17" wheels & rear 15mm spacers

    9. Member Louie Bricants's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 10th, 2009
      Posts
      3,401
      Vehicles
      95 Flatshred VRGTI 88 Marine Blue Coupe 87 4Runner
      10-04-2012 06:35 PM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
      Adapt your butt-o-meter and be done.
      Or drive around in reverse for a few thousand miles to get rid of the boost brain.
      planetcaravan

    10. 10-04-2012 06:52 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by SchnellFowVay View Post
      I drove a standard C6 (NON-Z06) and it certainly felt fast. But again, it was lacking the "woosh" sensation you get in a T/C'ed car.

      I don't doubt that at a high enough power level (Z06, Gallardo, 458), it just feels ridiculously fast no matter what.

      But I am curious if, for example, somehow on here has gone from a WRX to an S2000 and enjoyed it?
      WRX to S2000 is no comparison. The WRX takes a split second to deliver power everywhere in the powerband, with no real final squirt at the top.

      The S2000 feels like a dud on the little camshaft, but in the upper reaches, it responds instantly.

      I have not driven a turbo car that I have fallen in love with, mainly because it seems to me the power on turbo cars from the factory levels off at the top=boring to me.

      One drive in the laggy, understeering WRX was enough for me to know that it wasn't even close to the pureness of the S2000.

    11. 10-04-2012 07:31 PM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by SchnellFowVay View Post
      I drove a standard C6 (NON-Z06) and it certainly felt fast. But again, it was lacking the "woosh" sensation you get in a T/C'ed car.

      I don't doubt that at a high enough power level (Z06, Gallardo, 458), it just feels ridiculously fast no matter what.

      But I am curious if, for example, somehow on here has gone from a WRX to an S2000 and enjoyed it?
      I did. Had a 300whp WRX and had an S2000 after. At the End of the day, I found the S2000 to be the most enjoyable. I think James May said it best web he stated that the most fun you will have in a car is when you're pushing it to its limits. You will rarely find yourself pushing your high powered car to its limits simply because you will most likely run out of road. It's not all about power. It's about everything that makes a car enjoyable and have all of that work cohesively. I have to say that some people are all about power and speed. I respect that but for me, I'll take a slower but more enjoyable car than one with gobs of power any day.

    12. Member Ross1013's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 25th, 2012
      Location
      NoVA
      Posts
      6,996
      Vehicles
      2009 Si sedan and 2012 Crosstour 4WD
      10-04-2012 07:41 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by MFactor View Post
      I did. Had a 300whp WRX and had an S2000 after. At the End of the day, I found the S2000 to be the most enjoyable. I think James May said it best web he stated that the most fun you will have in a car is when you're pushing it to its limits. You will rarely find yourself pushing your high powered car to its limits simply because you will most likely run out of road. It's not all about power. It's about everything that makes a car enjoyable and have all of that work cohesively. I have to say that some people are all about power and speed. I respect that but for me, I'll take a slower but more enjoyable car than one with gobs of power any day.
      This is exactly my opinion as well

    13. Member NOTORIOUS VR's Avatar
      Join Date
      Sep 24th, 2002
      Location
      Toronto
      Posts
      3,969
      Vehicles
      E36
      10-05-2012 11:45 AM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by MFactor View Post
      I did. Had a 300whp WRX and had an S2000 after. At the End of the day, I found the S2000 to be the most enjoyable. I think James May said it best web he stated that the most fun you will have in a car is when you're pushing it to its limits. You will rarely find yourself pushing your high powered car to its limits simply because you will most likely run out of road. It's not all about power. It's about everything that makes a car enjoyable and have all of that work cohesively. I have to say that some people are all about power and speed. I respect that but for me, I'll take a slower but more enjoyable car than one with gobs of power any day.
      I don't get this logic at all. You're saying the slower car will be more enjoyable. I'm sorry but slow cars for me are well, boring AND slow.

      It is all about power to a point, and going from a decently quick car to a fairly slow car is working backwards IMO.

      If you have a decently quick car or a fast car, you need to do what you need to it to make it fun for you in all situations. You saying you will run out of road with a fast car, well I say you're not driving it right or to it's potential then because basically you're saying anything faster then a S2k (which are balls slow) is too fast for the road. That's just crazy talk
      E36 · VEMS · TUNING
      Google Talk: NOTORIOUS VR

    14. Member
      Join Date
      Jan 3rd, 2000
      Location
      Oakland, CA
      Posts
      5,968
      Vehicles
      2014 e350, 2007 LBP S2000, 96 gti vr6 turbo
      10-04-2012 11:08 PM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by SchnellFowVay View Post

      But I am curious if, for example, somehow on here has gone from a WRX to an S2000 and enjoyed it?


      I have a 500whp gti vr6 and a near-stock s2000. the s2000 is vastly more fun

    15. Member 1Point8TDan's Avatar
      Join Date
      Sep 4th, 2003
      Location
      Calgary, AB
      Posts
      8,312
      Vehicles
      D40 Frontier CC 4X4, 3BG Passat .:RS Variant
      10-05-2012 12:16 AM #15
      I don't plan on buying anything that does not have a turbo. Whenever I rev the Passat, it always brings a smile on my face.

    16. Member
      Join Date
      Nov 19th, 2008
      Location
      Chapel Hill
      Posts
      101
      Vehicles
      S13
      10-04-2012 06:30 PM #16
      INBthisgoesdownhillrapidly

      But I have gone the other way. I feel that turbo cars are nice and can be faster, but the increase in complexity has pushed me toward NA cars.

      That being said, all of my turbo cars were pretty old. Audi 5000, Merkur Xr4ti, FC3s, etc.

    17. Global Moderator King's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 10th, 2002
      Location
      Ajax, Ontario
      Posts
      15,941
      Vehicles
      01 Audi S4 stg 3, 10 Chevy Tahoe LTZ, 00 Cadillac DTS
      10-04-2012 08:26 PM #17
      I own a 400+hp B5 S4. It's a lot of fun, and quite addictive. As far as I was concerned, it was more than enough car for me. I say "was", because I've had an E46 M3 in my possession for about 4 days now.

      Although it is supposed to be making less power, I LOVE the way this thing moves. For the first time ever, I am contemplating switching to a BMW. I've never been head over heels for any of them, mainly because of the typical 3 series drivers douchy superiority complex most of them seem to have.....decisions, decisions......

    18. Member flytech78's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 25th, 2003
      Location
      Dallas TX
      Posts
      1,220
      Vehicles
      75 914, 84 gti, volvo v50 t5, 911 964 c2, BMW 850 csi, Land Rover Defender 110, Range Rover Classic.
      10-04-2012 08:36 PM #18
      yes
      My 964 feels like a turbo in many ways as in the power bad really jumps when i get into the 5k's. When i jam on it in the 3,4's and the rpm's rise to around 5 there is a big acceleration sensation that reminds me of the spooled up turbo feel. I have to be careful on wet days because it can get out from under me.
      1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55
      Good bye and thanx for all the fish!

    19. Banned Fritz27's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 8th, 2003
      Location
      Brickell
      Posts
      26,446
      Vehicles
      1986 Legs and/or 2014 Blue Non-MANual European Turbo Hatch
      10-04-2012 09:05 PM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by King View Post
      I own a 400+hp B5 S4. It's a lot of fun, and quite addictive. As far as I was concerned, it was more than enough car for me. I say "was", because I've had an E46 M3 in my possession for about 4 days now.

      Although it is supposed to be making less power, I LOVE the way this thing moves. For the first time ever, I am contemplating switching to a BMW. I've never been head over heels for any of them, mainly because of the typical 3 series drivers douchy superiority complex most of them seem to have.....decisions, decisions......
      You're worried about douchey owners and you drive a B5 S4.

      Not sure if serious...


    20. 10-04-2012 09:09 PM #20
      I've wondered the same thing since my GTI is fairly quick and I think I'm getting spoiled. I think my next car will be more focused, like a Miata or BRZ, on the driving experience. Basically, what MFactor said.

    21. Member CTdubbin7's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 15th, 2009
      Location
      Bethlehem CT
      Posts
      539
      Vehicles
      2000 gti 6262 vrt
      10-04-2012 09:28 PM #21
      I have and always will be a forced induction guy. Even the ls motors which can be downright nasty n/a ,I LOVE to see with a blower or turbo. call me crazy

    22. Member landstuhltaylor's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 21st, 2011
      Location
      Woodward
      Posts
      1,056
      Vehicles
      02 M3, 98 Z28, 94 Z28, 91 Miata, 92 Katana 600
      10-04-2012 09:48 PM #22
      I've gone from a ~350whp Camaro to a 240whp Jetta, and now just this past weekend to an E46 M3. I do miss the rush when the turbo spooled, but I do not miss the lag when shifting. It's also nice to put my foot down at less than 2400rpm and actually go somewhere. Turbo cars out of their power band can be very frustrating at times and you don't have to deal with that in an NA car.

    23. Member Mathdiesel's Avatar
      Join Date
      Sep 13th, 2005
      Location
      QC, Canada
      Posts
      617
      Vehicles
      92 Jetta VR, 04 A4
      10-04-2012 10:00 PM #23
      Turbo's are laggy, no response...turbo's come on early and fall on their face...

      How about a right sized turbo for your application?
      The way they behave is a matter of sizing and compromise. You can't expect to get 600hp out of a 2L engine and have instant torque. Same as a small and fast spooling turbo won't make the huge power of a bigger turbo. Size your turbo(s) according to your engine and desired powerband and you won't look back.

      Of course, most stock turbo'ed car aren't build with same intent as high strung n/a, but that doesn't mean you can't have a snappy high revving machine with forced induction.
      Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good - Sailor Jerry

    24. Member kiznarsh's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 10th, 2007
      Location
      SoCal
      Posts
      1,257
      Vehicles
      '10 S4 | '91 MR2 Turbo
      10-04-2012 10:18 PM #24
      I think the answer for me is no.

      Having that low-end torque is becoming a requirement for me since brisk city driving is what I do the most. Going from a turbo to a supercharger has been pretty fun since I don't have to wait till 4k RPMs yet don't have to deal with the lag either. Win win.

    25. Member rains's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 30th, 2008
      Location
      Sherwood Park
      Posts
      1,095
      Vehicles
      1995 Saturn SW1
      10-04-2012 10:43 PM #25
      Well, I have 2 turbo charged cars.

      My 2000 GTI has a tiny turbo, and even with the stage II software and supporting hardware, it has very little top end power. Don't get me wrong, it's great for booting around town, as it spools pretty quickly and delivers relatively instant torque. But it just doesn't 'wow' me.

      My 93 Jetta, ABA-T with a t3/t04e, on the other hand, is a different beast. It doesn't spool until 4k rpms, but when it does, it goes like stink, and pulls hard to redline. Not great for a daily driver, but hilarious when it spools.

      Now, to compare either of these two to my previous car, a 95 Passat, with the Vr6 ... it's a different feeling. The Vr6 was torquey enough to make me laugh. But, it delivered instant power. So, to compare that to the GTI with the k03, I'd rather have the Vr6, but compared to the ABA-T, I'd rather have that, simply for the fun factor when it spools.

      I guess it really depends on what size/ style of turbocharged vehicle you are switching from back to NA ... is it tiny, or big?
      Quote Originally Posted by VadGTI View Post
      This thread is now about car cakes.
      Quote Originally Posted by Cousin Eddie View Post
      Things I learned today: You don't have to pass grade 12 English to Manage a Honda dealership.

    26. Member SchnellFowVay's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 20th, 2001
      Location
      Las Vegas, NV
      Posts
      10,912
      Vehicles
      Bent M
      10-05-2012 01:33 AM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by fs454 View Post
      How on earth are you pulling 400hp/500tq out of an N55? I'm pretty sure this isn't possible yet.
      Crank hp/tq.
      2000 BMW M Roadster - 5-speed
      2014 Mazda Mazda6 - 6-speed
      2013 Subaru Crosstrek XV - 5-speed
      2013 Honda Civic LX Sedan - Nannymobile

    27. 10-05-2012 01:37 AM #27
      Horsepower is for people who can't drive.

    28. Member Dandbest's Avatar
      Join Date
      Sep 11th, 2003
      Location
      NY
      Posts
      2,095
      Vehicles
      2013 Touareg TDI
      10-05-2012 07:55 AM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by SchnellFowVay View Post
      Crank hp/tq.
      can we see a dyno graph? Or are you just guesstimating, cause it sure sounds that way.

      Anyway, to answer the question, I went from a 2011 135i to a 2012 Mustang GT 5.0. Haven't looked back.

    29. Banned justanotherusername's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 26th, 2007
      Location
      Palm Beach, FL
      Posts
      25,984
      Vehicles
      '08 135i, '00 4runner, '85 Huntsman (Toyota) RV
      10-05-2012 08:03 AM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by Dandbest View Post
      can we see a dyno graph? Or are you just guesstimating, cause it sure sounds that way.

      .
      About all it takes for a 135i to hit those numbers is a tune or piggyback and a set of catless downpipes. There are tens of thousands of them out there putting down 350wHp +. It's not a stretch at all.

      This is just a tune:


    30. Member turbinepowered's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 18th, 2007
      Location
      Southeastern US of A
      Posts
      5,926
      Vehicles
      '86 Interceptor 700, '82 Quantum Coupe
      10-05-2012 06:47 AM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by MylesPH1 View Post
      Good point, let me be more specific - the OP had a 2.0T VW and an E92 3-series, they build torque early and often
      Oh I know, it was just amusing given my memory of my introduction to turbocharging.

      Sent from the future via Google Skynet
      Quote Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
      There is an area of a normal brain that lets the owner know the object works and needs to be left alone. Not all of us have it. It is like being colorblind.

    31. Member turbinepowered's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 18th, 2007
      Location
      Southeastern US of A
      Posts
      5,926
      Vehicles
      '86 Interceptor 700, '82 Quantum Coupe
      10-05-2012 08:24 AM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by msrothwell View Post
      OP, ride a sportbike, and you'll know what a true naturally aspirated engine is supposed to feel like.
      Our really any modern bike save the big cube cruisers.

      Hell, some of the sport touring bikes have vtec. He could dead.

      Sent from the future via Google Skynet
      Quote Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
      There is an area of a normal brain that lets the owner know the object works and needs to be left alone. Not all of us have it. It is like being colorblind.

    32. 10-05-2012 08:55 AM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by SchnellFowVay View Post
      My last car was a modified 2007 GTI putting out ~280hp. My current car is an N55 putting out ~400hp and ~500lbs of torque.

      BUt more imortant than the power is the "rubberband" feel of the turbocharger. Sometimes I think I miss the smoothness of an N/A engine (such as when I almost bought an S2000 last month), but then I drive most N/A engines, and they simply do not feel "fast" at all. It feels like the car is actually stuck in mollases around 2,500-3,000 RPMS where a normal turbocharged car starts building serious boost.

      Case in point: My wife's 128i 6-speed. The car goes 0-60 in about 6 seconds (fairly fast), but to me it feels legitimately slow. I am currently driving a loaner 328i M-Sport while my car is at the dealer, and even in sport mode with the gas floored, the car feels really, really slow.

      I remember how much I used to love unwinding my cammed VR6 back in the day.

      Has anyone here successfully transitioned from a high-power turbo car back to a more "sedate" naturally aspirated engine and been able to enjoy it again?
      Well, I would probably think your 135 is slow. It is all relative.
      "The Sebring is an extraordinary car. Ugly to behold and hateful to drive, it is not cheap, elegant, comfortable, practical, prestigious, clever, economical, luxurious, well designed, well thought out or, if the rental car I drove in America this year is anything to go by, especially well made either." - Jeremy Clarkson

    33. Senior Member FlashRedGLS1.8T's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 17th, 2001
      Location
      Ohio
      Posts
      20,880
      10-05-2012 09:05 AM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by SchnellFowVay View Post
      Has anyone here successfully transitioned from a high-power turbo car back to a more "sedate" naturally aspirated engine and been able to enjoy it again?
      I have, but I wouldn't call it successful.

    34. 10-05-2012 01:57 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by SchnellFowVay View Post
      Actually, asshat, I do run either 100 octane or a 45% E85 mix most of the time, even for daily driving. I am running catless, and I also occassionally run meth-injection (although I have it disable now for the E85 fueling wires).


      :
      I think the "asshat" is the guy who runs 100 octane in a daily driver while not at the track. Are you prepping for RaceWars?

      Quote Originally Posted by pops View Post
      I'm naming my next child NightTrain EX.
      Quote Originally Posted by WhistlerYOW View Post
      You're a pretty cool dude.

    35. Member SchnellFowVay's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 20th, 2001
      Location
      Las Vegas, NV
      Posts
      10,912
      Vehicles
      Bent M
      10-05-2012 02:00 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by NightTrain EX View Post
      I think the "asshat" is the guy who runs 100 octane in a daily driver while not at the track. Are you prepping for RaceWars?

      As of recently, I run E85 mixtures, which are cheaper than straight 91-octane fillups, and allow me close to the boost levels of 100 octane.

      I used to run straigh 100 octane, or 100 octaine mixtures for a while. Why? Because it was fun. I have a gas station down the street that charges $6.85/gallon for 100 octane. When regular gas was over $4/gallon, it wasn't a huge expense.

      I have a unique 100-octane tune. My car takes full advantage of it.
      2000 BMW M Roadster - 5-speed
      2014 Mazda Mazda6 - 6-speed
      2013 Subaru Crosstrek XV - 5-speed
      2013 Honda Civic LX Sedan - Nannymobile

    Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •