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    Thread: Will I Ever Be Able To Go Back To a "Normal" Naturally Aspirated Engine?

    1. Member SchnellFowVay's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 06:19 PM #1
      My last car was a modified 2007 GTI putting out ~280hp. My current car is an N55 putting out ~400hp and ~500lbs of torque.

      BUt more imortant than the power is the "rubberband" feel of the turbocharger. Sometimes I think I miss the smoothness of an N/A engine (such as when I almost bought an S2000 last month), but then I drive most N/A engines, and they simply do not feel "fast" at all. It feels like the car is actually stuck in mollases around 2,500-3,000 RPMS where a normal turbocharged car starts building serious boost.

      Case in point: My wife's 128i 6-speed. The car goes 0-60 in about 6 seconds (fairly fast), but to me it feels legitimately slow. I am currently driving a loaner 328i M-Sport while my car is at the dealer, and even in sport mode with the gas floored, the car feels really, really slow.

      I remember how much I used to love unwinding my cammed VR6 back in the day.

      Has anyone here successfully transitioned from a high-power turbo car back to a more "sedate" naturally aspirated engine and been able to enjoy it again?
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    2. Member GTE77's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 06:24 PM #2
      This thread will be all kind of greatness

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      10-04-2012 06:26 PM #3
      I will be doing this shortly, most likely switching to a M3 or something similar. Turbochargers are fun when you are in the right rev range, but I prefer a smoother powerband. Albeit with less power, but for daily driving it makes more sense.

      Now that I've experienced a high-power car, I want a more balanced or handling-focused machine.

    4. Member Louie Bricants's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 06:29 PM #4
      If you want a NA vehicle that will make a 400HP Turbo car feel slow then buy a 2007 up Z06.
      planetcaravan

    5. Member SchnellFowVay's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 06:30 PM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by GTE77 View Post
      This thread will be all kind of greatness
      That was the goal.

      But it's also a serious question.
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    6. Member Sir UNBANNED_GERBIL M.B.'s Avatar
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      10-04-2012 06:30 PM #6
      I went from a modded MKV GTI to my NA A4. The A4 atleast has 90% of max torks at 1800rpm with the 3.2 V6. It feels every bit as quick

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      10-04-2012 06:30 PM #7
      INBthisgoesdownhillrapidly

      But I have gone the other way. I feel that turbo cars are nice and can be faster, but the increase in complexity has pushed me toward NA cars.

      That being said, all of my turbo cars were pretty old. Audi 5000, Merkur Xr4ti, FC3s, etc.

    8. Member SchnellFowVay's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 06:31 PM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by Louie Bricants View Post
      If you want a NA vehicle that will make a 400HP Turbo car feel slow then buy a 2007 up Z06.
      I drove a standard C6 (NON-Z06) and it certainly felt fast. But again, it was lacking the "woosh" sensation you get in a T/C'ed car.

      I don't doubt that at a high enough power level (Z06, Gallardo, 458), it just feels ridiculously fast no matter what.

      But I am curious if, for example, somehow on here has gone from a WRX to an S2000 and enjoyed it?
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    9. 10-04-2012 06:33 PM #9
      Adapt your butt-o-meter and be done.
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    10. Member Louie Bricants's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 06:35 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
      Adapt your butt-o-meter and be done.
      Or drive around in reverse for a few thousand miles to get rid of the boost brain.
      planetcaravan

    11. 10-04-2012 06:52 PM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by SchnellFowVay View Post
      I drove a standard C6 (NON-Z06) and it certainly felt fast. But again, it was lacking the "woosh" sensation you get in a T/C'ed car.

      I don't doubt that at a high enough power level (Z06, Gallardo, 458), it just feels ridiculously fast no matter what.

      But I am curious if, for example, somehow on here has gone from a WRX to an S2000 and enjoyed it?
      WRX to S2000 is no comparison. The WRX takes a split second to deliver power everywhere in the powerband, with no real final squirt at the top.

      The S2000 feels like a dud on the little camshaft, but in the upper reaches, it responds instantly.

      I have not driven a turbo car that I have fallen in love with, mainly because it seems to me the power on turbo cars from the factory levels off at the top=boring to me.

      One drive in the laggy, understeering WRX was enough for me to know that it wasn't even close to the pureness of the S2000.

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      10-04-2012 06:54 PM #12
      I feel like I can add some good insight here, since I own both a modified turbo car and an all-motor car.

      I built my 92 Talon to have 463whp, 441tq back in 06. It is getting a bigger turbo and some restoration at the moment, but before I took it apart to refresh it, it still felt pretty fast to me even though I had been used to the power for 5 years or so. I had a 04 gsxr600 and from a roll it would be pretty damn close (previous owner on my bike) with the GSXR having about a car length on me. Anyways, since I took it apart I picked up an 08 R32 as a daily driver. It is obviously much slower than my talon but the good power band and the sweet sounds get me by and I am in no major rush to get the car done now. No doubt I miss the hard hitting turbo feel though, there is just nothing like it in my opinion. If I ever do own another all-motor car, it will probably be something with a V10 (M6). If it isn't turbocharged, it sure as hell better sound good or rev to at least 8,000rpm.

      So to answer the question.. It is possible to go back, it just isn't the same
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    13. Member Ross1013's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 07:21 PM #13
      If the car in question is a 400hp 135i, then yeah it'll be tough to top in terms of stock NA street cars. To replicate the same kind of "Holy sh*t" factor you will 'need' something like a V8 M3, IS-F, Boss 302.

    14. Member Spray`'s Avatar
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      10-04-2012 07:26 PM #14
      I felt the same way as you. I had a big turbo'd Saab, then a heavily modded Legacy GT.

      I LOVED the way turbos came on.

      Then I got behind the wheel of the corvette, bought it and didn't look back.

      It's much more impressive to get those kind of numbers with straight motor and THEN can add FI if you want bigger numbers.

      I do miss the feel of the "turbo kick" though, which was insane in my saab.

    15. 10-04-2012 07:31 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by SchnellFowVay View Post
      I drove a standard C6 (NON-Z06) and it certainly felt fast. But again, it was lacking the "woosh" sensation you get in a T/C'ed car.

      I don't doubt that at a high enough power level (Z06, Gallardo, 458), it just feels ridiculously fast no matter what.

      But I am curious if, for example, somehow on here has gone from a WRX to an S2000 and enjoyed it?
      I did. Had a 300whp WRX and had an S2000 after. At the End of the day, I found the S2000 to be the most enjoyable. I think James May said it best web he stated that the most fun you will have in a car is when you're pushing it to its limits. You will rarely find yourself pushing your high powered car to its limits simply because you will most likely run out of road. It's not all about power. It's about everything that makes a car enjoyable and have all of that work cohesively. I have to say that some people are all about power and speed. I respect that but for me, I'll take a slower but more enjoyable car than one with gobs of power any day.

    16. Member Ross1013's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 07:41 PM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by MFactor View Post
      I did. Had a 300whp WRX and had an S2000 after. At the End of the day, I found the S2000 to be the most enjoyable. I think James May said it best web he stated that the most fun you will have in a car is when you're pushing it to its limits. You will rarely find yourself pushing your high powered car to its limits simply because you will most likely run out of road. It's not all about power. It's about everything that makes a car enjoyable and have all of that work cohesively. I have to say that some people are all about power and speed. I respect that but for me, I'll take a slower but more enjoyable car than one with gobs of power any day.
      This is exactly my opinion as well

    17. Banned Fritz27's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 07:49 PM #17
      I think the E46 M3 ruined turbo cars for me. That is the ultimate expression of how a car should move under power. While it doesn't sound great and it's sorta heavy, the way the engine pulls and races up to redline is a thing of beauty. Turbo cars have that lull, then the boost hits and then it peters out again at the top end. That is not rewarding to me. I find it much more satisfying for a car to ask you to slap it around and get aggressive. I don't like cars that are like, "Damn it, just shift and get it over with already."

    18. 10-04-2012 08:01 PM #18
      I went from a tuned 335 to an e92 M3 and had two tuned turbo cars before the 335. I agree that the "rubber band" feeling makes turbo cars feel faster, but once you learn a high-strung NA engine, it's just as fun in its own way.

      The N54/55 cars are beasts though. The 335i marked the end of my modding bug (in my mind, when big power is easy but the rest of the car doesn't keep up, what's the point).

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      10-04-2012 08:02 PM #19
      That "woosh" sensation can be cured with a cammed V8. Something with a nice LSx and a big cam with some advance built into it and you will almost think you are driving a turbo car...and have more torque everywhere. Instant zero lag always there power.

    20. Member Spray`'s Avatar
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      10-04-2012 08:14 PM #20
      I wish i knew more about cams...i want to put one in my corvette.

      Quote Originally Posted by jacobyb View Post
      That "woosh" sensation can be cured with a cammed V8. Something with a nice LSx and a big cam with some advance built into it and you will almost think you are driving a turbo car...and have more torque everywhere. Instant zero lag always there power.

    21. Senior Member Lwize's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 08:21 PM #21
      The new Viper with 8.4 liters of n/a goodness, should be entertaining enough for you.
      You may need to purchase your own gas station, though.
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    22. Global Moderator King's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 08:26 PM #22
      I own a 400+hp B5 S4. It's a lot of fun, and quite addictive. As far as I was concerned, it was more than enough car for me. I say "was", because I've had an E46 M3 in my possession for about 4 days now.

      Although it is supposed to be making less power, I LOVE the way this thing moves. For the first time ever, I am contemplating switching to a BMW. I've never been head over heels for any of them, mainly because of the typical 3 series drivers douchy superiority complex most of them seem to have.....decisions, decisions......

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      10-04-2012 08:30 PM #23
      It's just a situation where you have to enjoy waiting for the power to come on. I've got an 83 6-series, it's got a really simple 2-valve inline-six motor, and the power delivery could not be more different than a modern turbo car - what power it has, is mostly above 5000 rpm. But winding out a good NA motor that likes to rev is fun as hell. Not the same kind of fun as having a huge slug of torque shove you in the back at 1900 rpm, you just have to work the car a little more to get to the good stuff.

      I've gotta say, though - for running around town in traffic, you might miss that low end grunt of the turbo. It's not just fun, it's more suited to modern driving, where you want that power right now.

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      10-04-2012 08:30 PM #24
      it really depends where in the powerband you want your fun to be. i had a stg 1 b5 s4, the rush came in at 1,800 rpm and felt like a kick to the face. it was alot of fun. now i have an e46 m3, the rush comes on after 4,000 rpm. the howl and drama of the engine makes it so much fun.

      it all depends. there will probably always be a few high-rpm screamer motors around for enthusiasts to choose from

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      10-04-2012 08:32 PM #25
      Yes.

      I went from a big turbo WRX wagon to an NC Miata. It can be done, just depends on what your definition of 'fun' or 'fast' are.

    26. Member flytech78's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 08:36 PM #26
      yes
      My 964 feels like a turbo in many ways as in the power bad really jumps when i get into the 5k's. When i jam on it in the 3,4's and the rpm's rise to around 5 there is a big acceleration sensation that reminds me of the spooled up turbo feel. I have to be careful on wet days because it can get out from under me.
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    27. 10-04-2012 08:37 PM #27
      I decided I needed both

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      10-04-2012 08:38 PM #28
      I do it daily and hourly. You will be fine.
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    29. Member shaykes's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 08:40 PM #29
      Can I make a broad generalization based on my experience?

      I enjoy turbo charged engines in daily drivers and they do better with automatic transmission or paddle shift; tuned Saab has an enjoyable whoosh at 3500rpm which is relaxed and easy to access, good for effortless passing in the 50-80 range.

      N/A feels better when you just wanna hop in and trash it with a stick trans; my vr6 mk2 just sounds so much better and makes you want to rev the car, it wakes up at 5k and is pretty quick in the 30-60 roll.

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      10-04-2012 09:02 PM #30
      Buy a Integra Type R.

    31. Banned Fritz27's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 09:05 PM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by King View Post
      I own a 400+hp B5 S4. It's a lot of fun, and quite addictive. As far as I was concerned, it was more than enough car for me. I say "was", because I've had an E46 M3 in my possession for about 4 days now.

      Although it is supposed to be making less power, I LOVE the way this thing moves. For the first time ever, I am contemplating switching to a BMW. I've never been head over heels for any of them, mainly because of the typical 3 series drivers douchy superiority complex most of them seem to have.....decisions, decisions......
      You're worried about douchey owners and you drive a B5 S4.

      Not sure if serious...


    32. 10-04-2012 09:09 PM #32
      I've wondered the same thing since my GTI is fairly quick and I think I'm getting spoiled. I think my next car will be more focused, like a Miata or BRZ, on the driving experience. Basically, what MFactor said.

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      10-04-2012 09:28 PM #33
      I have and always will be a forced induction guy. Even the ls motors which can be downright nasty n/a ,I LOVE to see with a blower or turbo. call me crazy

    34. Member landstuhltaylor's Avatar
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      10-04-2012 09:48 PM #34
      I've gone from a ~350whp Camaro to a 240whp Jetta, and now just this past weekend to an E46 M3. I do miss the rush when the turbo spooled, but I do not miss the lag when shifting. It's also nice to put my foot down at less than 2400rpm and actually go somewhere. Turbo cars out of their power band can be very frustrating at times and you don't have to deal with that in an NA car.

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      10-04-2012 10:00 PM #35
      Turbo's are laggy, no response...turbo's come on early and fall on their face...

      How about a right sized turbo for your application?
      The way they behave is a matter of sizing and compromise. You can't expect to get 600hp out of a 2L engine and have instant torque. Same as a small and fast spooling turbo won't make the huge power of a bigger turbo. Size your turbo(s) according to your engine and desired powerband and you won't look back.

      Of course, most stock turbo'ed car aren't build with same intent as high strung n/a, but that doesn't mean you can't have a snappy high revving machine with forced induction.
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