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    Thread: Will I Ever Be Able To Go Back To a "Normal" Naturally Aspirated Engine?

    1. Banned SVTDanny's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 11:49 AM #101
      Quote Originally Posted by NOTORIOUS VR View Post
      I don't get this logic at all. You're saying the slower car will be more enjoyable. I'm sorry but slow cars for me are well, boring AND slow.

      It is all about power to a point, and going from a decently quick car to a fairly slow car is working backwards IMO.

      If you have a decently quick car or a fast car, you need to do what you need to it to make it fun for you in all situations. You saying you will run out of road with a fast car, well I say you're not driving it right or to it's potential then because basically you're saying anything faster then a S2k (which are balls slow) is too fast for the road. That's just crazy talk
      I agree. I never find 700whp to be "not fun" when driving on the roads.

      Especially when there is no waiting period for turbos, because there is a positive displacement blower providing boost off idle.

    2. Member SchnellFowVay's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 11:49 AM #102
      Quote Originally Posted by Dandbest View Post
      I answered the question the OP asked, but I'll reiterate- in a nutshell, you need a V8.
      Btw, the graph you posted is for a car with no cats and running 100 octane...yep, because we all run 100 octane on our daily drivers, every day. Totally realistic. And yeah, 500 ft/lbs torque is totally realistic on a stock turbo N55...daily driven as per the OP...
      Actually, asshat, I do run either 100 octane or a 45% E85 mix most of the time, even for daily driving. I am running catless, and I also occassionally run meth-injection (although I have it disable now for the E85 fueling wires).

      A car with the exact same mods as mine regularly generates 360-375 whp and 425+ lb-ft of torque. Do I have a dyno of my specific car? I do not. I can show you dozens of cars with the same mods, but you don't seem to care.

      400hp/500lb-ft is a more than realistic and fair guesstimate of the power my car is making. That isn't even the point of this thread. I don't understand all of the negativity
      I TCL.

    3. Banned SVTDanny's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 11:51 AM #103
      Quote Originally Posted by SchnellFowVay View Post

      A car with the exact same mods as mine regularly generates 360-375 whp and 425+ lb-ft of torque.

      400hp/500lb-ft is a more than realistic and fair guesstimate of the power my car is making.

      Your car is not making 400hp/500lb-ft. Your engine is.

      Your car is putting 360-375whp/425lb-ft to the ground. THAT IS ALL THAT MATTERS.

    4. Member NOTORIOUS VR's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 11:54 AM #104
      Quote Originally Posted by SVTDanny View Post
      I agree. I never find 700whp to be "not fun" when driving on the roads.

      Especially when there is no waiting period for turbos, because there is a positive displacement blower providing boost off idle.
      Exactly... and while we can all argue what is the best way to deliver the power (N/A, S/C, Turbo), in the end slow cars are slow. Why on earth would I drive a slow car with a capable chassis over the same car with more power and the accompanying upgrades? I can't fathom who would really thing it would be less enjoyable.
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    5. Member SchnellFowVay's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 11:54 AM #105
      Quote Originally Posted by SVTDanny View Post
      Your car is not making 400hp/500lb-ft. Your engine is.

      Your car is putting 360-375whp/425lb-ft to the ground. THAT IS ALL THAT MATTERS.
      Bwahahahahaha. Give me a break.

      Is it really worth arguing over semantics like this? The industry standard on cars is to quote crank hp. If this thread was legitimately about trying to specify the output of my car, you might have a point. I was just throwing out some estimates. You guys get so huffy about this stuff.
      I TCL.

    6. Member rynodyno312's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 11:55 AM #106
      Quote Originally Posted by NOTORIOUS VR View Post
      I don't get this logic at all. You're saying the slower car will be more enjoyable. I'm sorry but slow cars for me are well, boring AND slow.

      It is all about power to a point, and going from a decently quick car to a fairly slow car is working backwards IMO.

      If you have a decently quick car or a fast car, you need to do what you need to it to make it fun for you in all situations. You saying you will run out of road with a fast car, well I say you're not driving it right or to it's potential then because basically you're saying anything faster then a S2k (which are balls slow) is too fast for the road. That's just crazy talk
      I think his point was that it's more fun to driver a slower car fast than it is to drive a faster car slow.

      To many people, it is more "fun" to be able to go flat-out in something like a Miata or GTI, and really use all of the power and grip available, than it is to drive something like a M6 on the same road, where you might only be able to use 40% of the throttle, and would never even approach the limits of grip without ending up in jail or a ditch.

      Yeah, my GTO was fast and that was fun on open roads and long sweepers, but it wasn't very fun to drive on narrower, more winding roads becuase you there is no room for the car to be pushed. My GTI has literally 1/2 the power and is much, much slower, but on a twisty, low-speed road, it's going to be more fun to drive becuase the limits of the car are lower, so I can really wring it out and get closer to the limits of the car.

      That's probably why the most "fun" cars I have ever driven were a 116hp n/a miata that I could literally redline every gear save 5th in and not break a speed limit, and a base porsche 944 that was slower than a modern 4-cyl camry. Not fast, but very fun!

    7. Banned SVTDanny's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 11:55 AM #107
      Quote Originally Posted by SchnellFowVay View Post
      The industry standard on cars is to quote crank hp.
      For factory stock cars that have had engine dyno after engine dyno performed, sure.

    8. Member SchnellFowVay's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 11:58 AM #108
      Quote Originally Posted by SVTDanny View Post
      For factory stock cars that have had engine dyno after engine dyno performed, sure.
      Except that even factory numbers aren't all that accurate. Numerous companies severly underrate their cars for marketing reasons (see: BMW), and some companies overrate (see: Mazda).

      At the end of the day I agree that whp is the most accurate way to measure power output if you are trying to compare cars. But who gives a crap?
      I TCL.

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      10-05-2012 11:59 AM #109
      I daily drive a tuned N54, and I previously had a 1.8T. I just love the powerband and tuneability that turbo engines give you, and that rush of torque especially at low RPMs.

      But still, in certain situations I do miss the throttle response and smoothness of a well designed NA engine. The N52 in the Z4 I co-own is super responsive and revs so smoothly. Sure it is down 150HP and 200ft/lbs on my 135, but on super tight back roads and in a lighter car it works very well. Daily driving and on more normal streets I like the 135 better though.

    10. Member rynodyno312's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 12:10 PM #110
      Quote Originally Posted by Rav_VW View Post

      But still, in certain situations I do miss the throttle response and smoothness of a well designed NA engine. The N52 in the Z4 I co-own is super responsive and revs so smoothly. Sure it is down 150HP and 200ft/lbs on my 135, but on super tight back roads and in a lighter car it works very well. Daily driving and on more normal streets I like the 135 better though.
      I really wish BMW would have put the 255hp N52 in the 1-series. Call it the 130i or something.

    11. Member Shomegrown's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 01:00 PM #111
      Quote Originally Posted by SVTDanny View Post

      [IMG]http:/img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/heyheyhey3/shomegrown/309_1033317388182_1082820280_120506_433_n.jpg[/IMG]
      So you actually do search for pictures of me and store them on your hard drive.

      Seek help brah. That's creepy. Just like when you emailed Ann Arbor's police department on my behalf.

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      10-05-2012 01:07 PM #112
      When you are talking modded vehicles, wheel horsepower is the standard.

      When you are talking stock vehicles, crank horsepower is the standard.

      This isn't arguable. If a shop out there engine dynos each one they build, that is a different story. I guess all those 1,000 whp GTR and Supra guys just got a free dick enlargement pill to the tune of 200 hp inflation when they are talking about their cars.

      Awesome, my talon has 530hp now instead of 463!
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    13. Member zhenya00's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 01:10 PM #113
      Quote Originally Posted by NOTORIOUS VR View Post
      Exactly... and while we can all argue what is the best way to deliver the power (N/A, S/C, Turbo), in the end slow cars are slow. Why on earth would I drive a slow car with a capable chassis over the same car with more power and the accompanying upgrades? I can't fathom who would really thing it would be less enjoyable.
      My position is that it is much harder to learn to become a really good driver with a very powerful car. Power makes up for so many mistakes that it is difficult to really know what you are doing wrong. It robs you of the subtleties that make you a better driver. It's no accident that rookie race drivers don't start with F1 levels of power.
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    14. Banned SVTDanny's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 01:16 PM #114
      Quote Originally Posted by Shomegrown View Post
      So you actually do search for pictures of me and store them on your hard drive.

      Seek help brah. That's creepy. Just like when you emailed Ann Arbor's police department on my behalf.
      I would hotlink directly from the source, but then if you close it off it will only show a red X and the lol's will be lost forever.

      Emailing police? I think you have me confused for your other creepy stalker. Sorry.

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      10-05-2012 01:21 PM #115
      Try one of theese


    16. Member NOTORIOUS VR's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 01:26 PM #116
      Quote Originally Posted by rynodyno312 View Post
      I think his point was that it's more fun to driver a slower car fast than it is to drive a faster car slow.
      In which I respectfully disagree. Slow cars are boring, because they're slow.


      Quote Originally Posted by zhenya00 View Post
      My position is that it is much harder to learn to become a really good driver with a very powerful car. Power makes up for so many mistakes that it is difficult to really know what you are doing wrong. It robs you of the subtleties that make you a better driver. It's no accident that rookie race drivers don't start with F1 levels of power.
      So the lesson here is not to drive slower cars faster, or drive faster cars slower. But to learn how to drive period.

      That I can't speak for. Maybe the people that are advocating slower cars just aren't good drivers. But saying slow cars are more then then fast cars just doesn't make any sense.
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    17. Member Shomegrown's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 01:28 PM #117
      Quote Originally Posted by SVTDanny View Post
      I would hotlink directly from the source, but then if you close it off it will only show a red X and the lol's will be lost forever.

      Emailing police? I think you have me confused for your other creepy stalker. Sorry.
      Grow up and move on.

    18. 10-05-2012 01:29 PM #118
      Quote Originally Posted by NOTORIOUS VR View Post
      In which I respectfully disagree. Slow cars are boring, because they're slow.




      So the lesson here is not to drive slower cars faster, or drive faster cars slower. But to learn how to drive period.

      That I can't speak for. Maybe the people that are advocating slower cars just aren't good drivers. But saying slow cars are more then then fast cars just doesn't make any sense.
      What is "slow" in your "book"? Is the S2000 slow? I would have a LOT more fun in a S2000 than a modified 335i anyday. I would also take E36 M3 over 335 as well.
      Last edited by MonsterM; 10-05-2012 at 01:35 PM.

    19. 10-05-2012 01:31 PM #119
      Quote Originally Posted by rynodyno312 View Post
      I really wish BMW would have put the 255hp N52 in the 1-series. Call it the 130i or something.
      AA tune will bring it up to 245 hp. You will need a three stage manifold to bring it up to 260 hp or so. BMW should have offered the euro version with DI, which makes around 267 hp if I am not mistaken. It should be standard in the 1 and optional in the 3.

    20. Member rynodyno312's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 01:31 PM #120
      Quote Originally Posted by NOTORIOUS VR View Post
      In which I respectfully disagree. Slow cars are boring, because they're slow.
      So puttering around a parking lot in a Z06 is more fun than thrashing a Miata around the backroads?

      To each his own.

    21. Member zhenya00's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 01:32 PM #121
      Quote Originally Posted by NOTORIOUS VR View Post
      So the lesson here is not to drive slower cars faster, or drive faster cars slower. But to learn how to drive period.
      That's not the lesson at all. I'm sorry you don't get it.
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    22. Member rynodyno312's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 01:32 PM #122
      Quote Originally Posted by MonsterM View Post
      AA tune will bring it up to 245 hp. You will need a three stage manifold to bring it up to 260 hp or so.
      Noted.

    23. Banned justanotherusername's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 01:33 PM #123
      Quote Originally Posted by rynodyno312 View Post
      So puttering around a parking lot in a Z06 is more fun than thrashing a Miata around the backroads?

      To each his own.
      No, thrashing a Z06 on backroads is more fun than thrashing a Miata on backroads. Unless you're restricted to a parking lot....why even ask that question?

    24. Member rynodyno312's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 01:35 PM #124
      Quote Originally Posted by justanotherusername View Post
      No, thrashing a Z06 on backroads is more fun than thrashing a Miata on backroads. Unless you're restricted to a parking lot....why even ask that question?
      You are missing the point.

    25. Banned justanotherusername's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 01:37 PM #125
      Quote Originally Posted by rynodyno312 View Post
      You are missing the point.
      No, you're not making a point. Why would restrict the Z06 to a parking lot? Who the hell is going to do that?

      Would you rather drive a fast car on a backroad, or a slow car? I know I'd take the fast one every time.

      The whole "slow car fast" argument generally comes from people who can't (or won't) afford a faster vehicle. It makes no damn sense.

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