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    Thread: ILX sales are below Acura projections

    1. Member
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      10-05-2012 01:01 AM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by sucking chest wound View Post


      Car developed for the mythical focus-group derived "middle-aged, solid earner but somewhat frugal, Just-for-Men-using guy who aspires to a wine tasting trip to Napa sometime before his 70th birthday".

      This has always been Acura's problem, in spite of the fact that they occasionally find buyers outside this mould no matter how hard they try to thwart them. 1994-1999 was an exception where there was a glimmer of hope they'd break through to sanity, but it obviously never materialized.

      Hence, the frustrating slow rot of the brand. Fundamentally decent engineering, but no cognisance at all for any buyer outside the Just-for-Men guy.
      So basically the target market is middle-aged white males who are pretentious and cheap? Yikes...that is one tiny (and undesirable!) slice of the pie they've managed to pinpoint.
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      10-05-2012 02:04 AM #37
      For what it is, it's a good car.

      But it's not been marketed very well, nor do their target audience nowadays really care about more than MPG and price. $25.9k isn't a bad start for a car with those features but when most of those "features" aren't really a concern of the casual buyer, then there's the problem with sales.

    3. Senior Member AZGolf's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 02:10 AM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by czykvw View Post
      Have driven all three ILX's. 2 are very, very boring, 1 is amazing. The 2.4 6 speed, Pretty much an SI that doesnt look like robot poo. Only badging is the hybrid, so 2.4's look like 2.0's. Making me like it even more, kinda of a sleeper, with the hidden exhaust and no nav too. mmm.
      Yeah maybe I'm in the minority but the ILX 6-speed looks appealing to me. Maybe because I'm no longer exactly young, maybe because I really enjoy my 6-speed Miata but sometimes wish I had a regular sedan. I priced one out on their website and it came to $31,000 which is 3 times what I paid for my Miata but maybe in 5 years we'll see some good deals on the ILX? OK, probably not considering they are hardly selling any of them, which means the 6-speed models will command a premium in the used market. Oh well. I agree with your thoughts though, that it appears you get all the performance of the Civic Si but without the styling of a steal-me-now Civic Si. It's just too bad it costs so much more than the Si.

    4. Member Mike!'s Avatar
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      10-05-2012 08:24 AM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by NoXenons View Post
      Is this a joke? Look at all the kids running around in Integras, RSX's, 1G TSX, 3G TL's..
      That helps Acura new car sales how?

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      10-05-2012 08:53 AM #40
      This isn't a new concept, oh Einsteins of TCL. How is this any different than the old Acura EL?
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    6. Senior Member AZGolf's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 09:33 AM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by ATL_Av8r View Post
      This isn't a new concept, oh Einsteins of TCL. How is this any different than the old Acura EL?
      How is it different? The ILX is sold in USA. The EL was not. That's a big difference.

    7. Geriatric Member Turbio!'s Avatar
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      10-05-2012 09:44 AM #42
      Thing I don't get is why they're trying to pull defeat from the jaws of victory when there's a fat, perfect market segment just waiting there for somebody to exploit it. Build a $25-30k compact sport sedan with a sharp design and a turbo four developing around 230-240 hp and SH-AWD as an option, make it look okay, call it the Integra, and sell a goddamn million of them to 35-55 year old professionals who are tempted by the WRX, Focus ST, MS3, and so forth but want something a little more grown up that doesn't rape their wallet like the Tier 1s do. As it stands the GTI and GLI have that market essentially to themselves. Undercut the upcoming A3 sedan by a few grand or so, and they've got it made.
      Last edited by Turbio!; 10-05-2012 at 09:50 AM.
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    8. Member Mike!'s Avatar
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      10-05-2012 09:51 AM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by AZGolf View Post
      How is it different? The ILX is sold in USA. The EL was not. That's a big difference.
      It's also a much more thorough change vis a vis the Civic than the EL and CSX ever were.

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      10-05-2012 09:53 AM #44
      Turbio--I agree, but the issue is that SH-AWD is now Acura's outdated tech. It's not going to be a focal point anymore, as they ready their next-gen system for launch in the next few years.

      SH-AWD is also heavy...part of the reason for the 1st-gen RDX's perceived poor MPG.

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      10-05-2012 10:17 AM #45
      Im not sure im seeing how this is a sales "flop" just yet

      It was a new model that people didn't know existed yet and each month its been increasing in sales based on the figures posted. Month 4 is almost double month 1. If they go with a nice marketing push and the sales continue to trend upwards then I don't think 40k units is unreachable.

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      10-05-2012 10:23 AM #46
      This is so much not on Buick's radar as a competitor that they don't even compare it in our side by side comparisons.

      Now that I see standard content, available options, and standard power trains I see why. It is a sub par vehicle for the cash.
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      10-05-2012 10:28 AM #47
      Meanwhile in Canada....... the ILX is selling better than its predecessor, the CSX.

      I guess we just really like fancy Civics.

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      10-05-2012 10:39 AM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio! View Post
      Thing I don't get is why they're trying to pull defeat from the jaws of victory when there's a fat, perfect market segment just waiting there for somebody to exploit it. Build a $25-30k compact sport sedan with a sharp design and a turbo four developing around 230-240 hp and SH-AWD as an option, make it look okay, call it the Integra, and sell a goddamn million of them to 35-55 year old professionals who are tempted by the WRX, Focus ST, MS3, and so forth but want something a little more grown up that doesn't rape their wallet like the Tier 1s do. As it stands the GTI and GLI have that market essentially to themselves. Undercut the upcoming A3 sedan by a few grand or so, and they've got it made.
      I agree with this. Also, people sometimes underestimate the appeal of buying from a premium (or semi-premium) brand. Buying my Dodge was painless because I went through USAA. But for someone who might not have access or might not want to use a broker ,dealing with an Acura dealer can be more pleasant than dealing with a Ford or Subaru dealer. But the vehicle itself has to be as compelling as the Ford or Subie.
      Rest easy, Bart.

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      10-05-2012 10:47 AM #49
      If I could get a 2.4 w/ 6 speed for about 3k off sticker I'd be sold. Sadly, manuals are a rare beast in this area, as are hefty discounts (even in this economy).

    15. Senior Member 6cylVWguy's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 10:56 AM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio! View Post
      Thing I don't get is why they're trying to pull defeat from the jaws of victory when there's a fat, perfect market segment just waiting there for somebody to exploit it. Build a $25-30k compact sport sedan with a sharp design and a turbo four developing around 230-240 hp and SH-AWD as an option, make it look okay, call it the Integra, and sell a goddamn million of them to 35-55 year old professionals.
      What you're expecting and the actual reality is completely different. The took the cheap road and performed some very minor changes. It likely cost Honda very little money to bring the ILX to market. What you're suggesting would require an extensive re-engineering of the car. It's not like they would use the old RDX motor because they certainly had what, almost a decade to use it in something else and never did. Adding AWD would also cost some significant coin.

      I would put money on the fact that cost efficiency was, by far, the primary driving force for how the ILX came out. While conceptually, I like your idea, I don't think Honda felt they could make a case to spend so much on making such an idea reality. You're familiar with the term "quick and dirty" right? That's how Honda approached the ILX, IMO. It's like the Cimarron of the honda lineup.

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      10-05-2012 11:02 AM #51
      Quote Originally Posted by 6cylVWguy View Post
      It's like the Cimarron of the honda lineup.
      Except, you know, that the Civic on which this is based isn't a total and utter POS like the Cimarron was. Given Honda's track record I'd say it is a pretty safe bet that 20 years from now many of these will still be on the road.

      Which is not to say that Honda didn't botch the launch of this car. They should have waited until the new hybrid/earth dreams engines came on line to launch this. The current engines are lackluster for anything wearing a "luxury" badge.

    17. Member Professor Gascan's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 11:03 AM #52
      Quote Originally Posted by Hajduk View Post
      Meanwhile in Canada....... the ILX is selling better than its predecessor, the CSX.

      I guess we just really like fancy Civics.
      That's damning with faint praise. The CSX was a sales dog compared to the EL. I have yet to see an ILX on the road here, and Acura around here used to have excellent market penetration.
      Fires are the leading cause of fires.

    18. 10-05-2012 11:06 AM #53
      Car buyers in this segment are often car leasers, such as myself. I leased a base 2011 328i a year ago. Out the door price was $31k for a car with real leather and a 230hp inline six. Why would I want a $30k ILX instead??

      Today you can lease a G25 for the same price as the ILX. Is there any question which is more car?

    19. Senior Member 6cylVWguy's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 11:09 AM #54
      Quote Originally Posted by jwaters943 View Post
      Except, you know, that the Civic on which this is based isn't a total and utter POS like the Cimarron was.
      I didn't say it was a POS. But both situations are an example of blatant corporate laziness. A lot of companies can be accused of the same exact things.

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      10-05-2012 11:14 AM #55
      Quote Originally Posted by Hajduk View Post
      Meanwhile in Canada....... the ILX is selling better than its predecessor, the CSX.

      I guess we just really like fancy Civics.
      In Canada there is an established market for the car, its basically just the next EL/CSX. Where as in US it is a new product....

      Whats the price difference going from CSX to this anyway?

    21. Geriatric Member Turbio!'s Avatar
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      10-05-2012 11:36 AM #56
      Quote Originally Posted by 6cylVWguy View Post
      What you're expecting and the actual reality is completely different. The took the cheap road and performed some very minor changes. It likely cost Honda very little money to bring the ILX to market. What you're suggesting would require an extensive re-engineering of the car. It's not like they would use the old RDX motor because they certainly had what, almost a decade to use it in something else and never did. Adding AWD would also cost some significant coin.

      I would put money on the fact that cost efficiency was, by far, the primary driving force for how the ILX came out. While conceptually, I like your idea, I don't think Honda felt they could make a case to spend so much on making such an idea reality. You're familiar with the term "quick and dirty" right? That's how Honda approached the ILX, IMO. It's like the Cimarron of the honda lineup.
      Oh yeah, I'm naturally assuming there that this is some kind of bizarro-world Honda that's as entrepeneurial and engineering-driven as it was in around 1995, and that this hypothetico-Honda actually gives a **** about aggressively growing Acura and making awesome cars, not that it's the same old complacent, "the bare minimum is good enough" Honda we know today. But hey, maybe that old Honda is coming back out again, the new Accord and CR-V aren't execrable and seem to be serious attempts at being competitive rather than the default choice.

      And yeah, I agree entirely. It's a cheap, quick "hey, we need something smaller, I guess people want fuel economy these days" hack job, indifferently shat out in the mistaken impression that Acura buyers are as committed as Honda buyers.
      Last edited by Turbio!; 10-05-2012 at 11:40 AM.
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    22. 10-05-2012 11:49 AM #57
      Quote Originally Posted by Moodyblues View Post
      Car buyers in this segment are often car leasers, such as myself. I leased a base 2011 328i a year ago. Out the door price was $31k for a car with real leather and a 230hp inline six. Why would I want a $30k ILX instead??

      Today you can lease a G25 for the same price as the ILX. Is there any question which is more car?
      G25 is dead.

    23. Senior Member 6cylVWguy's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 11:54 AM #58
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio! View Post
      Oh yeah, I'm naturally assuming there that this is some kind of bizarro-world Honda that's as entrepeneurial and engineering-driven as it was in around 1995, and that this hypothetico-Honda actually gives a **** about aggressively growing Acura and making awesome cars, not that it's the same old complacent, "the bare minimum is good enough"
      I think the underlying problem is that Honda has whittled down avialable platforms and motors to improve efficiency across the brands, but at the detriment of variety. And now, they have a problem because there isn't a lot of room to differentiate their various cars--both within and between the Honda and Acura brands.

      I have to say that I prefer VWs approach to this sort of thing. They have whittled down the platforms as well, but the platforms also seem to be far more flexible and allow for the creation of the cars that from an engineering perspective are related, but from the seat of the pants, have a pretty different look and feel. Not to mention, VW has access to quite a few different engine and transmission combinations (based, seemingly, on the need to develop such different powertrains for the various markets VW has a presence in), so every project wouldn't seem to require an extensive re-engineering process.

      To Honda's detriment in this situation, it's also a much smaller company than VW, so there's also that to consider. I'm not as big of a fan of the CRV as you are, but I have to say that I'm not nearly as offended by the new accord, at least based on the pictures I've seen, than I was of the previous gen car. Unfortunately, Honda needs to invest some money in several different engine and transmission lineups and I think they're just too damn conservative. I like your idea about awd for the ILX, but that would require far more forward thinking than I feel Honda has put forth in their current products.

      But hey, maybe Honda is putting ALL of their engineering skill into developing the NSX.

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      10-05-2012 11:59 AM #59
      Quote Originally Posted by 1985Jetta View Post
      Haven't seen a single one here.
      Same here.
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    25. 10-05-2012 12:18 PM #60
      Didn't even know about the ILX. Haven't even seen a commercial for it
      @WhiteOnRice25

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      10-05-2012 12:27 PM #61
      The ILX 2.4 replaces the CSX Type-S, the latter has a sport exhaust + NAV, both of which are no longer found on the ILX. The ILX also costs $1,000 more.

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      10-05-2012 12:57 PM #62
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio! View Post
      Sure there is - the Verano, A3, 1-series, and Ct200h, as well as the upcoming A-class MB derivatives, A3 sedan, and rumored small Hyundai Genesis-branded sedan. Honestly, I'd throw the GLI into that mix too, along with the the Focus Titanium and ST trim levels.

      It also competes on price and features with larger cars, but it's definitely got competition its own size and spec.
      Of the ones you list, the A3 and Ct200h are only available as hatch/wagons and the Ct200h is hybrid only. So, I wouldn't say they were direct competitors.
      the others are either vaporware or haven't reached our shores yet.
      I agree that the Verano is definitely a competitor. But, honestly, I didn't even think of it. Like most west coast folk in this target demographic, Buick isn't even on our radars. Also, it doesn't help that the Verano, IMHO, is even more generic looking than the ILX


      Consumer reports sums it up well in its Verano review, "Just like with the Acura ILX, you have to want to pay a premium to get a smaller car." People would rather buy a bigger car with the same amount of features without the premium badge.

      I think you're right about the GLI. Plus the Jetta has a TDI option to compete with the ILX hybrid interms of fuel economy.

      Quote Originally Posted by above8k View Post
      I think sales will jump if they give 2.4L an auto option and navigation.
      price would bring it even more into TSX territory.

      Quote Originally Posted by BMP_3918 View Post
      Didn't even know about the ILX. Haven't even seen a commercial for it
      Acura was running these a few months ago.


      not really compelling, if you ask me. When I first saw them on TV, I thought they were going to sell alcohol.

      Actually, I'd add the Suzuki Kazashi to it's list of competitors too.
      But sadly for Suzuki, the kazashi is REALLY off most people's radar.


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      10-05-2012 01:06 PM #63
      Quote Originally Posted by sucking chest wound View Post


      Car developed for the mythical focus-group derived "middle-aged, solid earner but somewhat frugal, Just-for-Men-using guy who aspires to a wine tasting trip to Napa sometime before his 70th birthday".

      This has always been Acura's problem, in spite of the fact that they occasionally find buyers outside this mould no matter how hard they try to thwart them. 1994-1999 was an exception where there was a glimmer of hope they'd break through to sanity, but it obviously never materialized.

      Hence, the frustrating slow rot of the brand. Fundamentally decent engineering, but no cognisance at all for any buyer outside the Just-for-Men guy.

      Acura was fine in 2005.

      RSX/S sport coupes
      TSX sport sedan (much better engine back then, true DOHC VTEC)
      RDX turbo cuteute with thoughts of that motor making it into other cars (exciting)
      NSX sold for its last year
      TL was the most beautiful mid-sized entry-luxury sedan like evar.
      RL was looking solid, boasting 300hp from a V6 long before competitors caught up with similar displacement engines
      MDX was doing well

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      10-05-2012 01:07 PM #64
      Quote Originally Posted by choochoo View Post
      I agree that the Verano is definitely a competitor. But, honestly, I didn't even think of it. Like most west coast folk in this target demographic, Buick isn't even on our radars. Also, it doesn't help that the Verano, IMHO, is even more generic looking than the ILX


      Consumer reports sums it up well in its Verano review, "Just like with the Acura ILX, you have to want to pay a premium to get a smaller car." People would rather buy a bigger car with the same amount of features without the premium badge.
      What 'target demographic' are you referring to? Because the early returns on our surveys--you know the ones from the buyers who helping the Verano outsell the ILX 4 to 1 on average-say that the Verano is attracting a very different buyer, age wise. That CR statement is completely spot on--in 2007.

    30. 10-05-2012 01:16 PM #65
      Quote Originally Posted by Avus View Post
      In Canada, base ILX = $27790 CAD (with a 2.0L I4 150hp engine, 5sp auto...)

      A base Buick Verano = $22595 CAD (with a 2.4L I4 180hp engine, 6sp auto...)

      A base Passat = $23975 CAD (with a 2.5L I4 170hp engine, 6sp auto...)
      Acura is dreaming with these prices, my friend just returned his tl type-s lease and they offered him a tsx with 10k on it for 600/month 4 year lease, he later visited audi and got a brand new A4 quattro with l.e.d package for 580 and 0 down. Tough choice..

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      10-05-2012 01:27 PM #66
      Turbio has it right here. They need a sophisticated, adult small sedan with a competitive feature set at a good price. I could maybe see making a case for this gussied-up Civic at $25K. But $30K? As someone else mentioned, there are entry level BMWs, Infinitis and Audis available to those buyers. To say that this car isn't in the same league is not a subjective characterization, it's a fact: A car based on a Civic platform is not the equivalent of BMW anything. It can't be.

      Really, I just think they should take all the content of the ILX and put it in the Civic while not charging more. They're so close together in the market (loaded Civic versus base ILX) and as has been pointed out, the ILX was developed on the cheap. Why didn't Honda just make this Civic this good? How does this car justify it's faux-luxury badge? Also, personally, I find wannabe-luxury badges to be pretty embarrassing. If you want your car to impress people, then just get a damn BMW/MB/Audi already.
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      10-05-2012 01:48 PM #67
      Quote Originally Posted by Minority5 View Post
      What 'target demographic' are you referring to? Because the early returns on our surveys--you know the ones from the buyers who helping the Verano outsell the ILX 4 to 1 on average-say that the Verano is attracting a very different buyer, age wise. That CR statement is completely spot on--in 2007.
      I was commenting on west coast Gen Yers? I don't think I know anyone around my age, would even consider a buick. Which people are you polling, Verano owners? I wonder how many Verano owners are gen Y and live on the west coast. I'm really curious.

      I think the CR comment is very valid for the compact entry level luxury market. Like I said earlier, people would rather buy a bigger car with the same amount of features without the premium badge.
      Especially in a soft economy.

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      10-05-2012 02:04 PM #68
      Quote Originally Posted by Hajduk View Post
      Meanwhile in Canada....... the ILX is selling better than its predecessor, the CSX.

      I guess we just really like fancy Civics.
      The pricing gets kooky after the base models though. I don't see how you walk into an Acura dealer for an ILX, and don't leave with a TSX, which seems more substantial in just about every way.

      They do look great in person though.
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      13 Optima, 10 GT-R
      10-05-2012 02:05 PM #69
      Quote Originally Posted by vrsexxy_GTI View Post
      Acura is dreaming with these prices, my friend just returned his tl type-s lease and they offered him a tsx with 10k on it for 600/month 4 year lease, he later visited audi and got a brand new A4 quattro with l.e.d package for 580 and 0 down. Tough choice..
      That choice at that pricing is like picking the 500 pound woman over the 600 pound woman. Either way, you're gonna get sat on and hurt.
      Quote Originally Posted by teklord69 View Post
      Scenario: Uphill on two lane hwy. You need to pass and overtake a slower vehicle. That 151 torque won't let you. You will hit an oncoming car the opposite side if you do.

    35. Member TetsuoShima's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 30th, 2008
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      Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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      1994 Honda Prelude V-TAK
      10-05-2012 02:08 PM #70
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio! View Post
      Thing I don't get is why they're trying to pull defeat from the jaws of victory when there's a fat, perfect market segment just waiting there for somebody to exploit it. Build a $25-30k compact sport sedan with a sharp design and a turbo four developing around 230-240 hp and SH-AWD as an option, make it look okay, call it the Integra, and sell a goddamn million of them to 35-55 year old professionals who are tempted by the WRX, Focus ST, MS3, and so forth but want something a little more grown up that doesn't rape their wallet like the Tier 1s do. As it stands the GTI and GLI have that market essentially to themselves. Undercut the upcoming A3 sedan by a few grand or so, and they've got it made.
      Logic + Common Sense + Aesthetically pleasing design =/= Honda/Acura

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