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    Thread: ILX sales are below Acura projections

    1. Member TigerinColorado's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 08:46 PM #106
      The car itself just does NOT match the OTD+++ price well. Add some of the packages and forget about it!

      Advance: 150hp, 5AT, they left the slippery diff in the Civic(?), and the fact that it's not quite a premium vehicle. What does it do that a Civic doesn't? Not so much.

      Maybe if they were dealing on them?
      Quote Originally Posted by Kyle C
      The world runs on marketing, and in the case of winter tires Subaru has proven beyond a reasonable doubt that any round, rubber-ish object that holds a bit of air and passes as a tire will get you through the snow just fine, but only if it is attached to a vehicle with AWD/4WD.

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      10-05-2012 08:53 PM #107
      Quote Originally Posted by P-Body View Post
      You're missing the point. Acura isn't targeting the Jetta with this car. They're going after the entry level luxury market. Similarly badged vehicles. You can scoff at the price of the badge, but that's the market. Buick prices the Verano cheaper because they have to price it cheaper. The majority of this market sits at the 30k mark, where the 200HP ILX fits just fine.

      What would make me buy an ILX? Nothing. But I wouldn't buy anything in this class, because I'd rather pay a bit more and get something better, with every single entrant. But the ILX does the stylish compact car thing pretty well. And it will likely be excellent on gas and the most reliable in the segment.

      If you play the game you're suggesting, I might as well say that a Jetta GLI is a ridiculous proposition in light of 270 HP midsizers for the same price. But I wouldn't do that, because someone shopping a Jetta GLI isn't looking at an Altima 3.5, just to name one example.
      No GLI buyer on earth would cross-shop an Altima. Totally different buyer. And, where I come from, the VW brand has greater prestige than Nissan (and Acura as well, amongst the more cultured set). I realize that Acura targets and attempts to play in the entry-luxury market, but I'd suggest to you that they're failing because nobody on earth lusts after an Acura. The brand has zero aura about it. Nobody has any clue what makes an Acura an Acura.

      Value: Unfortunately, Acura is seeking to compete in a real market where people actually examine the value proposition. And there's no way somebody cross-shops an ILX with a base A4 and picks the ILX. Or a G37, which has a crazy low lease price right now. Acura buyers are thought to be the most "value-conscious" shoppers of the entry-level luxury market. Surely they'd look at the value equation and instead choose an A4 or a TSX (a larger, more substantial car with an equally bland exterior...which, by the way, would be located in the very same showroom).

      So, cross-shopped with cars costing $25K, it gets killed on value/content. Cross-shopped against so-called entry-level-luxury cars costing $30K, it gets positively murdered on value/content/size/prestige/visceral appeal. It falls between two stools, as they say.

      Unless you're telling me that someone will want an ILX just for the Acura badge, which would be just

      TL;DR: The Acura brand alone cannot justify the price premium and the ILX cannot compete on value with either the "luxury" brand offerings or the non-luxury brand cars available.

      They should strip it of it's fake luxury content, slap a Honda "H" on the grille, and sell it as a Civic....Oh wait, they do.
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    3. Member Ross1013's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 09:17 PM #108
      They definitely screwed up by leaving off the LSD, and not making the Tech Package available with the 2.4L+6MT. Fortunately, that's easily remedied, if they can stop being so stubborn about it.

      The ILX, TSX, and Accord 6-6 should all really have one.

    4. Member MrRline's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 09:20 PM #109
      I have to agree with the post above me. For the money I can't see any value in this car beyond the fact that it will last over the long haul. I recently picked up a GLI and it's miles above what this thing is offering and for an out the door price that looks to be thousands less. At this point short of pricing it out of the civic range i'm not even sure why the car should cost this month in general?
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    5. Member clutchrider's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 09:20 PM #110
      I played the game and would never look at a Nissan. But for me no matter what I was in the market for I wouldn't touch Nissan, I just don't like them as a brand. Same for the Infiniti lineup.

      And I contemplated a mid sizer and it was the Kia Optima but it lost because of one big issue. No manual in turbo SX trim. I realize most of those cars are not geared towards someone in the market for row-your-own so it automatically disqualifies me from looking. So my vehicle search was even smaller to begin with.
      Quote Originally Posted by stagman View Post
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    6. Senior Member VarianceVQ's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 10:01 PM #111
      Quote Originally Posted by Charlie84
      [GLI gets you] the appeal of buying into a brand with a following and a youthful, semi-hip, European image (which, of course, matters to some).
      Quote Originally Posted by Charlie84 View Post
      And, where I come from, the VW brand has greater prestige than Nissan (and Acura as well, amongst the more cultured set).
      Holy crap...Euro fanboyism...

      VW is a mainstream carmaker, nothing more.
      Last edited by VarianceVQ; 10-05-2012 at 10:04 PM.
      Esi ϟ Disi

    7. Member OOOO-A3's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 10:11 PM #112
      Quote Originally Posted by choochoo View Post
      a tarted up civic.
      So... it's an Integra, then.

    8. Member nairmac's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 10:50 PM #113
      Quote Originally Posted by OOOO-A3 View Post
      So... it's an Integra, then.
      I was assuming the 'I' in ILX was to be a reminder of the Integra name, which of course was a higher end Civic also.
      If you make something idiot proof, a better idiot will come along.

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      10-06-2012 01:02 AM #114
      Quote Originally Posted by VarianceVQ View Post
      Holy crap...Euro fanboyism...

      VW is a mainstream carmaker, nothing more.
      Yup. I prefer Euro rides. It's true.

      But fanboyism? I'm not advocating for VW on cultural grounds. I'm just saying that their brand image is different than Acura's.
      DD: 2012 GLI with a friggin' plaid roof.
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    10. 10-06-2012 01:33 AM #115
      No doubt in your little world.

    11. Member MrRline's Avatar
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      10-06-2012 03:14 AM #116
      Quote Originally Posted by VarianceVQ View Post
      Holy crap...Euro fanboyism...

      VW is a mainstream carmaker, nothing more.
      Not too get too far into this subject, but I think you may be missing a few things here. Compare Vortex to most forums out there and I think you'll find much more intelligent conversation in this forum compared to others. I know my old local Honda forum is full of post about girls, tacos, and compared to this forum contributes nothing worth while. I think the stereo type that most VW buyers are a bit more intelligent than average isn't too far off, but it's not to say there aren't their fair share of idiots in each car buying category.
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    12. Member bmann's Avatar
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      10-06-2012 03:58 AM #117
      Please. Let's stop comparing an Acura to a VW. Forget value, when you talk about ownership experience, it's night and day.

      However, I agree that Acura needs to offer a little more pah for the price and create enthusiasm for their brand. The ILX now is what the TSX was 6 years ago, but smaller, less power, more expensive and with less content? Correct me if I'm wrong.
      Do not be persecuted by the pompous fedora, balanced by the equilibrium, fortified by the
      government's inability to eradicate, or foreshadow—taken from the Hebrew word: foreskin

    13. 10-06-2012 04:08 AM #118
      Quote Originally Posted by NoXenons View Post
      Maybe if they want to impress kids on TCL who might buy their cars used in 5 years. Otherwise Infiniti is the example not to follow. Acura has outsold Infiniti every month this year. They are doing fire leases on G37's and the one rebadged FWD Nissan they sell has been a huge success.



      http://www.autoblog.com/2012/10/02/s...malcy-edition/
      Do you work for AcuraAnd what FWD rebadged nissan is that, the I series was bandoned long ago

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      10-06-2012 04:10 AM #119
      Quote Originally Posted by dj_cronic_metal View Post
      Compare Vortex to most forums out there and I think you'll find much more intelligent conversation in this forum compared to others.
      Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
      I'm filming this thread. Just thought I'd let everyone know. I've had some bad experiences with threads in the past.
      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      I like when dumb people quote mechanical grip as a metric of whether or not a car is fun to drive. It's like saying McDonald's is the best restaurant because you get a lot of calories for your money.

    15. 10-06-2012 06:03 AM #120
      In those rare occasions when I stumbled upon a imported Acura, I wanted to puke. I admire them for selling anything at all. I really do.
      Last edited by StringTheory; 10-06-2012 at 06:05 AM.

    16. 10-06-2012 06:35 AM #121
      The TSX is a way better car in every way,and when you option the ILX up,its the same price.

      I think people would far rather have the TSX,which is Accord based and fully imported from Japan,than the ILX,which is Civic based,and locally built.

    17. Banned Chris Stack's Avatar
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      10-06-2012 06:43 AM #122
      Quote Originally Posted by dj_cronic_metal View Post
      Not too get too far into this subject, but I think you may be missing a few things here. Compare Vortex to most forums out there and I think you'll find much more intelligent conversation in this forum compared to others. I know my old local Honda forum is full of post about girls, tacos, and compared to this forum contributes nothing worth while. I think the stereo type that most VW buyers are a bit more intelligent than average isn't too far off, but it's not to say there aren't their fair share of idiots in each car buying category.
      A guy named dj_cronic_metal telling us to judge brands based on the sophistication of forum browsers? Also, you haven't been to OT here, where we love tacos, pink and regular.


      And oh yeah, ILX sucks, but you know what else sucks? A $30k German car (excluding VW). What the hell kind of A4 do you get for $30k? If the ILX kills the TSX and the don't fix/shrink/bring the price down of the TLX, ima gonna be pissed.

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      10-06-2012 10:35 AM #123
      Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stack View Post
      And oh yeah, ILX sucks, but you know what else sucks? A $30k German car (excluding VW). What the hell kind of A4 do you get for $30k? If the ILX kills the TSX and the don't fix/shrink/bring the price down of the TLX, ima gonna be pissed.
      When the most logical competitor in the marketplace is a more expensive car your own company already sells, you've got some problems w/ your product planning. They sort of did this when they re-vamped the TL, too. The RL didn't really offer anything beyond the TL except a bigger pricetag. I think the question here is: Does the ILX cannibalize TSX sales or vice versa?
      DD: 2012 GLI with a friggin' plaid roof.
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      10-06-2012 10:58 AM #124
      Quote Originally Posted by StringTheory View Post
      In those rare occasions when I stumbled upon a imported Acura, I wanted to puke. I admire them for selling anything at all. I really do.
      *cough* ITR and NSX *cough*

    20. Member MK5golf's Avatar
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      10-06-2012 10:58 AM #125
      Quote Originally Posted by bmann View Post
      Please. Let's stop comparing an Acura to a VW. Forget value, when you talk about ownership experience, it's night and day.
      Although I agree with you completely on the ownership experience, I dont think your stretching it the least bit when your comparing Acura with VW. GLI would compare with the ILX 2.4, would it not? I remember Edmunds testing a mk5 GLI vs a TSX once even, and I did not think that was preposterous in the least. It says a lot about VW... and even about Acura.

      Please don't interpret this as Honda/Acura hate... I really want to see them succeed. If they sell cars like this, at those prices, I dont think that they will ....
      Z is pronounced ZED

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      10-06-2012 10:59 AM #126
      Quote Originally Posted by Charlie84 View Post
      But fanboyism? I'm not advocating for VW on cultural grounds. I'm just saying that their brand image is different than Acura's.
      Are you comparing an economy brand to what is essentially a luxury (albeit a cheaper one) brand? The fanboyism is strong with this one.

    22. Member Ross1013's Avatar
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      10-06-2012 11:03 AM #127
      Quote Originally Posted by Charlie84 View Post
      When the most logical competitor in the marketplace is a more expensive car your own company already sells, you've got some problems w/ your product planning. They sort of did this when they re-vamped the TL, too. The RL didn't really offer anything beyond the TL except a bigger pricetag. I think the question here is: Does the ILX cannibalize TSX sales or vice versa?
      It's widely speculated that they're going to remedy this by killing the TSX.

      I've also heard that the TL (now TLX) will have an L4 option, meaning it will be downsized a bit to clear room for the completely new RLX (should have called it a Legend) at the top of the range.

      The TSX was a good car but never totally made sense, especially after the redesign. I think this will all eventually be sorted out for the better. ZDX should die when its model cycle ends, leaving us with an Acura lineup of ILX, RDX, TLX, MDX, RLX, NSX by 2015 or so. At least three of those cars will feature the next-gen hybrid SH-AWD, and at least two of them (but probably three) will have the new ZF 9AT.

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      10-06-2012 11:04 AM #128
      Quote Originally Posted by C4 A6 View Post
      Are you comparing an economy brand to what is essentially a luxury (albeit a cheaper one) brand? The fanboyism is strong with this one.
      Hmm... I think the Touareg is more luxurious than anything Acura has on sale right now...
      To me, a fully loaded GTI is more "Luxurious" than a ILX.
      Z is pronounced ZED

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      10-06-2012 11:05 AM #129
      Quote Originally Posted by Charlie84 View Post
      And, where I come from, the VW brand has greater prestige than Nissan (and Acura as well, amongst the more cultured set).
      Oh, gawd...
      Rest easy, Bart.

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      10-06-2012 11:06 AM #130
      Quote Originally Posted by MK5golf View Post
      Hmm... I think the Touareg is more luxurious than anything Acura has on sale right now...
      I totally disagree, but I'm not going to get anywhere with someone named MK5golf.

      I also think it's obvious that VW understand that their brand needs to compete with Honda, Toyota, Nissan, etc...hence the dropping of their prices and the decontenting/'cheapening' of the Golf/Jetta.
      Last edited by Ross1013; 10-06-2012 at 11:10 AM.

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      10-06-2012 11:11 AM #131
      Quote Originally Posted by Ross1013 View Post
      I totally disagree, but I'm not going to get anywhere with someone named MK5golf.
      Lol obviously not. Mind you, if I wasn't in a mk5 Golf right now, id be in an 8th (6th?!?!) Si, but that was too much of a stretch for a 17 year old. (at the time)

      Although Acura does not make BAD cars... in terms of "Luxury" I think their a cut below the typical German offerings. ILX is defenitely more luxurious than the poverty special 2.0 8v Jetta... but Touareg, CC, Phaeton (ok, that ones only for the old world) and Eos... I cant help but feel that all of Acuras offerings do less of a job catering to the "luxury" people...ie, making buyers feel "special" about their purchase.
      Z is pronounced ZED

    27. Member Ross1013's Avatar
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      10-06-2012 11:20 AM #132
      Quote Originally Posted by MK5golf View Post
      Lol obviously not. Mind you, if I wasn't in a mk5 Golf right now, id be in an 8th (6th?!?!) Si, but that was too much of a stretch for a 17 year old. (at the time)

      Although Acura does not make BAD cars... in terms of "Luxury" I think their a cut below the typical German offerings. ILX is defenitely more luxurious than the poverty special 2.0 8v Jetta... but Touareg, CC, Phaeton (ok, that ones only for the old world) and Eos... I cant help but feel that all of Acuras offerings do less of a job catering to the "luxury" people...ie, making buyers feel "special" about their purchase.
      I think you're not TOTALLY off-base. Acura's whole schtick is "Smart Luxury", aimed at people who want to own a well-equipped, well-engineered car without the general unreliability, massive repair bills and complicated options structures of the German brands.

      They had plans to become a "Tier 1" manufacturer, and were going to go after BMW w/both barrels. New NSX was going to have a V10, and the new RL was either going to have a V8 or V10. But after the 08 crash they decided to just stick with Smart Luxury.

      Still, I think Acura v. Audi is a more solid comparison than Acura v. VW. Outliers like the Phaeton and Eos notwithstanding, which do speak to a greater amount of risk-taking on VW's part.

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      10-06-2012 11:34 AM #133
      Quote Originally Posted by Ross1013 View Post
      I think you're not TOTALLY off-base. Acura's whole schtick is "Smart Luxury", aimed at people who want to own a well-equipped, well-engineered car without the general unreliability, massive repair bills and complicated options structures of the German brands.

      They had plans to become a "Tier 1" manufacturer, and were going to go after BMW w/both barrels. New NSX was going to have a V10, and the new RL was either going to have a V8 or V10. But after the 08 crash they decided to just stick with Smart Luxury.

      Still, I think Acura v. Audi is a more solid comparison than Acura v. VW. Outliers like the Phaeton and Eos notwithstanding, which do speak to a greater amount of risk-taking on VW's part.
      acura's most recent risk then would be the 1st gen RDX with its car like ride and turbo (very german yes?). Say what you will but there's a reason that acura owners own their cars for a long time whereas I constantly see, just for example zhps/gtis/GLIs with 49k for sale and then the 2nd and subsequent owners putting them up for sale again every 20k miles or so. Its really not an accident.
      Quote Originally Posted by konigwheels View Post
      Wow, it amazes me that we have children in here that can't read a couple paragraphs. No wonder America's doing so well in education! Can't take the time to read, but sure can find the time to post. Self indulgence at it's finest.

      TL;DR should be banned and changed to ID;CR or I'm dumb, can't read.

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      10-06-2012 12:17 PM #134
      Quote Originally Posted by Ross1013 View Post
      I think you're not TOTALLY off-base. Acura's whole schtick is "Smart Luxury", aimed at people who want to own a well-equipped, well-engineered car without the general unreliability, massive repair bills and complicated options structures of the German brands.

      They had plans to become a "Tier 1" manufacturer, and were going to go after BMW w/both barrels. New NSX was going to have a V10, and the new RL was either going to have a V8 or V10. But after the 08 crash they decided to just stick with Smart Luxury.

      Still, I think Acura v. Audi is a more solid comparison than Acura v. VW. Outliers like the Phaeton and Eos notwithstanding, which do speak to a greater amount of risk-taking on VW's part.
      I think this is right on. Acura = Audi in the Honda product planner's minds (only... and delusionally). Acura brings reliability, lower running costs, historically stronger resale value (not recently), and many of the same feature sets (AWD, sticks, sport-tuned suspensions). But what they are missing, they miss big, especially style, interior quality, winning racing heritage/technical credibility, innovation.

      Style in particular is a major missing element, and the recent generation of "beak" noses were a market disaster. Audi was one of the first to add a distinctive schnoz. Altho, for those who remember, this was much to the detriment of the early generation A4's and A6's where it was grafted on, rather than designed in. Acura tried for a distinctive nose and failed -- they need serious design help. Acura interiors are getting better, but they still cheap out in various places, like making the driver's seat fully adjustable, but not the passenger's. And the scattering of a zillion buttons makes for busy dashboards, with little driver logic to them.

      To me "smart luxury" simply stands for "a luxury-like vehicle that we have to sell cheap because we don't have the credibility or image to be worth more." It seems that Acura is backing away from performance and highlighting efficiency as a selling point, which really places the brand in a non-distinctive no-man's land. It used to be they were the Honda MOTOR company, and it was all about the excellence of their motors and engineering. I'd say they are lost in the wilderness without a compass. Too bad because I like Honda's/Acuras, have owned a few and had good ownership experiences.

      As for the ILX. I agree with those posters who said it is what the Civic should have been. The Civic just feels cheap, especially compared to an equivalent Hyundai. The new Ford Fusion makes the ILX look like a dated piece of crap. Time to get back to a brand that has some basis for credibility, Acura! Otherwise this will be a brand that withers away, like Pontiac. A real shame and an indictment of bad management.

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      10-06-2012 12:32 PM #135
      Quote Originally Posted by VarianceVQ View Post
      Holy crap...Euro fanboyism...

      VW is a mainstream carmaker, nothing more.
      It is on paper, but at least here in north america they are seen as premium as acura, and in some cases more premium if you look at the touareg, which is more upscale than any of that rx, mdx, jx, mkx, srx crap.

    31. Banned Chris Stack's Avatar
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      10-06-2012 12:38 PM #136
      Quote Originally Posted by Idiot S'Avant View Post
      To me "smart luxury" simply stands for "a luxury-like vehicle that we have to sell cheap because we don't have the credibility or image to be worth more." It seems that Acura is backing away from performance and highlighting efficiency as a selling point, which really places the brand in a non-distinctive no-man's land. It used to be they were the Honda MOTOR company, and it was all about the excellence of their motors and engineering. I'd say they are lost in the wilderness without a compass. Too bad because I like Honda's/Acuras, have owned a few and had good ownership experiences.
      I've said it before and I'll say it again; I see no shame in trying to own the $30-45k market. They basically did it before with the 2nd and 3rd gen TL and MDX. German fanboys can scream all day about A4s and 328is being better than TSXs, but when owe cars cost $5-15k more comparatively equipped, yeah, eh should be better. If Acura could fix the TL's styling and get the 9AT in there, a lot of people would be happy to buy a roomy $42k TL that will run for 200k miles instead of a cramped, overpriced $50k A34 with about the same mechanical longevity of a mortar.



      ILX still sucks though.

    32. Banned Chris Stack's Avatar
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      10-06-2012 12:38 PM #137
      Quote Originally Posted by vrsexxy_GTI View Post
      It is on paper, but at least here in north america they are seen as premium as acura, and in some cases more premium if you look at the touareg, which is more upscale than any of that rx, mdx, jx, mkx, srx crap.
      False. Maybe the part about the Twatrag, but in general, no, VW is about as premium as Honda and Nissan.

    33. 10-06-2012 12:40 PM #138
      Quote Originally Posted by vrsexxy_GTI View Post
      It is on paper, but at least here in north america they are seen as premium as acura, and in some cases more premium if you look at the touareg, which is more upscale than any of that rx, mdx, jx, mkx, srx crap.
      In North America vw still has the image of the original beetle...

    34. Banned Chris Stack's Avatar
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      10-06-2012 12:45 PM #139
      Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stack View Post
      False. Maybe the part about the Twatrag, but in general, no, VW is about as premium as Honda and Nissan.
      And now that I read your post closer, no, the Twatrag is NOT more prestigious than the Lexus RX, the official car of upper crust MiLFs everywhere.

    35. Member vrsexxy_GTI's Avatar
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      10-06-2012 12:47 PM #140
      Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stack View Post
      And now that I read your post closer, no, the Twatrag is NOT more prestigious than the Lexus RX, the official car of upper crust MiLFs everywhere.
      To the educated car buyer, the Touareg is more prestigious than a jacked up camry wagon.

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