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    Thread: ILX sales are below Acura projections

    1. 10-05-2012 06:11 PM #101
      Quote Originally Posted by choochoo View Post
      ^^^nope
      ILX has a completely different sheet metal all the way around and different interior.
      Coming from a guy from a country where the EL & CSX wasnt sold....

      "The Acura ILX is an entry-level luxury car for Honda's luxury brand Acura. It replaces the Canada-exclusive Acura CSX and is a new model for the U.S. Like the preceding CSX, the Acura ILX is related to the Honda Civic." - Exactly what my definition of "tarted up Civic" means... It's cosemtics are different, but when you get down to the bones, it's a Civic. Are you trying to tell me that it's an entirely different car?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acura_ILX
      Last edited by DedRok; 10-05-2012 at 06:16 PM.
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    2. Member MRVW00's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 06:12 PM #102
      I'll just leave this here....



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      10-05-2012 06:20 PM #103
      Quote Originally Posted by P-Body View Post
      And my point is that everything you described your GLI as, I can do the same for the ILX. It stands out in a sea of good 25k sedans about as well as anything else, including your Jetta.
      You're right. I described the GLI as "good solid transportation that can be a little fun now and then and isn't aesthetically embarrassing." This also describes the ILX. But, the VW has the following "x-factors" working for it's appeal:

      -$25K gets you 200bhp, a turbocharger, cloth seats, a 6-speed dual-clutch automatic OR a manual, and the appeal of buying into a brand with a following and a youthful, semi-hip, European image (which, of course, matters to some). Raw, irrational, visceral appeal matters when it comes to big purchases.

      The ILX, in contrast:

      -$25K gets you 150 bhp, naturally aspirated, cloth seats, a 5-speed automatic only and all the image appeal of a fax machine.

      Summation: The ILX is a perfectly good car. Of course it is. It's based on a Civic, after all. But, just as the Civic is no longer the market segment champ it once was, the ILX has no uniquely compelling appeal. It does not stand out in any area. It is merely "good enough". So, I ask you: What does the ILX offer that would make you say "Yes, that's the one to have" and then sign on the dotted line?

      Quote Originally Posted by clutchrider View Post
      I wasn't looking to tout the GLI/CC either. I was just using them as examples. The CC for it's price point offers something that you cannot get "brand new" in the market from many other manufacturers. At least not without stepping into Mercedes price ranges.

      In the sea of sedans in the ILX price range, what makes it stand out from the group? Is the GLI the best of the best, not at all. But it is the "performance" (used lightly) version of the Jetta lineup and thus has a niche same as the Si and WRX in the same price point. Value for the money plays a role in this segment. The ILX just doesn't have anything to make it noticeable.
      Quote Originally Posted by thebanker View Post
      Um isnt the ILX, at best, a 2.4L N/A with 200 hp / 170 tq? At about 2978 lbs... it's similar but probably a bit slower than the GLI.

      Also it's derpy looking.
      Actually, I think it's reasonably good looking in a way that will appeal to the soft, soggy middle of the sedan market. But, really, there are hardly any truly bad looking sedans available today. Even Kia and Suzuki have well-styled mainstream sedans. Looks will not be a hindrance to ILX sales. But boring looks are not the stuff you need to build brand cache. Acura has no brand cache. They're in a state of continual existential crisis.

    4. Member thebanker's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 06:58 PM #104
      Quote Originally Posted by Charlie84 View Post
      Actually, I think it's reasonably good looking in a way that will appeal to the soft, soggy middle of the sedan market. But, really, there are hardly any truly bad looking sedans available today. Even Kia and Suzuki have well-styled mainstream sedans. Looks will not be a hindrance to ILX sales. But boring looks are not the stuff you need to build brand cache. Acura has no brand cache. They're in a state of continual existential crisis.
      I think it's reasonably bland looking. It's not downright hideous, but put it next to a competitor like the Kia Optima or a Sonata.

      Suzuki's mainstream sedan isn't half bad, I think the Kizashi has more flair than the ILX. The reason Acura has a tough time building brand cache is because they keep putting out cars like this. Where I live, cars are important. Acura is trying to target my demographic with this car. I'm a 30 year old married guy with a job and no kids. I like cars and I care about what I drive, and I don't want a truck. The crowd Acura thinks it's targeting is ACTUALLY buying:

      used A4's
      GTI's
      Jettas
      Optimas
      Sonatas
      Chargers
      Mustangs
      used G35's and 37's
      new Fusion, probably
      Heck, they're even buying the new style Camry that's grounded to the ground.

      My point is, this car exemplifies Acura's lack of brand cache. It's not cool looking, it's not mean looking, and neither are the guts.

      Step it up Acura. Sh#t I'd buy a used RSX, but not this thing...
      - mikey

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    5. Member choochoo's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 07:00 PM #105
      Quote Originally Posted by DedRok View Post
      I forgive you, but I can understand why you are confused. You probably didn't know about the generations before the ILX to truly grasp what the ILX is.

      The EL, CSX, and ILX are just a tarted up Civic targeted for people older than 25.

      Acura EL


      (Civic Based)




      Acura CSX


      (Civic Based)



      Acura ILX


      (Civic Based)

      Thanks for proving my point. The Acura EL and CSX wore faint disguises, where as the ILX has all around different sheet metal and interior. That's all I was saying.
      Last edited by choochoo; 10-05-2012 at 07:09 PM.

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      10-05-2012 07:06 PM #106
      It's wearing a prettier dress, yes.

      Hey Acura, I'm your demographic. Make a freakin' Integra Type R again, and make it cool. I'd buy it. Or a Legend coupe.

      no?


      What's that?


      oh you have this for me. Great.



      hurrrrr durrrrr
      Last edited by thebanker; 10-05-2012 at 07:11 PM.
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      10-05-2012 07:12 PM #107
      ^ and that humping character line around the rear wheel isn't fooling anyone... no power to those wheels.

      Ok I'm done.
      - mikey

      "It's not a real build until there's Plasti Dip involved."

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      10-05-2012 07:28 PM #108
      I think it's a very subtle car and suits people who want something understated, I like the interior too. It could be a decent CPO in a couple of years.

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      10-05-2012 07:36 PM #109
      Quote Originally Posted by Charlie84 View Post
      You're right. I described the GLI as "good solid transportation that can be a little fun now and then and isn't aesthetically embarrassing." This also describes the ILX. But, the VW has the following "x-factors" working for it's appeal:

      -$25K gets you 200bhp, a turbocharger, cloth seats, a 6-speed dual-clutch automatic OR a manual, and the appeal of buying into a brand with a following and a youthful, semi-hip, European image (which, of course, matters to some). Raw, irrational, visceral appeal matters when it comes to big purchases.

      The ILX, in contrast:

      -$25K gets you 150 bhp, naturally aspirated, cloth seats, a 5-speed automatic only and all the image appeal of a fax machine.

      Summation: The ILX is a perfectly good car. Of course it is. It's based on a Civic, after all. But, just as the Civic is no longer the market segment champ it once was, the ILX has no uniquely compelling appeal. It does not stand out in any area. It is merely "good enough". So, I ask you: What does the ILX offer that would make you say "Yes, that's the one to have" and then sign on the dotted line?
      .
      You're missing the point. Acura isn't targeting the Jetta with this car. They're going after the entry level luxury market. Similarly badged vehicles. You can scoff at the price of the badge, but that's the market. Buick prices the Verano cheaper because they have to price it cheaper. The majority of this market sits at the 30k mark, where the 200HP ILX fits just fine.

      What would make me buy an ILX? Nothing. But I wouldn't buy anything in this class, because I'd rather pay a bit more and get something better, with every single entrant. But the ILX does the stylish compact car thing pretty well. And it will likely be excellent on gas and the most reliable in the segment.

      If you play the game you're suggesting, I might as well say that a Jetta GLI is a ridiculous proposition in light of 270 HP midsizers for the same price. But I wouldn't do that, because someone shopping a Jetta GLI isn't looking at an Altima 3.5, just to name one example.
      Quote Originally Posted by teklord69 View Post
      Scenario: Uphill on two lane hwy. You need to pass and overtake a slower vehicle. That 151 torque won't let you. You will hit an oncoming car the opposite side if you do.

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      10-05-2012 08:46 PM #110
      The car itself just does NOT match the OTD+++ price well. Add some of the packages and forget about it!

      Advance: 150hp, 5AT, they left the slippery diff in the Civic(?), and the fact that it's not quite a premium vehicle. What does it do that a Civic doesn't? Not so much.

      Maybe if they were dealing on them?

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      10-05-2012 08:53 PM #111
      Quote Originally Posted by P-Body View Post
      You're missing the point. Acura isn't targeting the Jetta with this car. They're going after the entry level luxury market. Similarly badged vehicles. You can scoff at the price of the badge, but that's the market. Buick prices the Verano cheaper because they have to price it cheaper. The majority of this market sits at the 30k mark, where the 200HP ILX fits just fine.

      What would make me buy an ILX? Nothing. But I wouldn't buy anything in this class, because I'd rather pay a bit more and get something better, with every single entrant. But the ILX does the stylish compact car thing pretty well. And it will likely be excellent on gas and the most reliable in the segment.

      If you play the game you're suggesting, I might as well say that a Jetta GLI is a ridiculous proposition in light of 270 HP midsizers for the same price. But I wouldn't do that, because someone shopping a Jetta GLI isn't looking at an Altima 3.5, just to name one example.
      No GLI buyer on earth would cross-shop an Altima. Totally different buyer. And, where I come from, the VW brand has greater prestige than Nissan (and Acura as well, amongst the more cultured set). I realize that Acura targets and attempts to play in the entry-luxury market, but I'd suggest to you that they're failing because nobody on earth lusts after an Acura. The brand has zero aura about it. Nobody has any clue what makes an Acura an Acura.

      Value: Unfortunately, Acura is seeking to compete in a real market where people actually examine the value proposition. And there's no way somebody cross-shops an ILX with a base A4 and picks the ILX. Or a G37, which has a crazy low lease price right now. Acura buyers are thought to be the most "value-conscious" shoppers of the entry-level luxury market. Surely they'd look at the value equation and instead choose an A4 or a TSX (a larger, more substantial car with an equally bland exterior...which, by the way, would be located in the very same showroom).

      So, cross-shopped with cars costing $25K, it gets killed on value/content. Cross-shopped against so-called entry-level-luxury cars costing $30K, it gets positively murdered on value/content/size/prestige/visceral appeal. It falls between two stools, as they say.

      Unless you're telling me that someone will want an ILX just for the Acura badge, which would be just

      TL;DR: The Acura brand alone cannot justify the price premium and the ILX cannot compete on value with either the "luxury" brand offerings or the non-luxury brand cars available.

      They should strip it of it's fake luxury content, slap a Honda "H" on the grille, and sell it as a Civic....Oh wait, they do.

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      10-05-2012 09:17 PM #112
      They definitely screwed up by leaving off the LSD, and not making the Tech Package available with the 2.4L+6MT. Fortunately, that's easily remedied, if they can stop being so stubborn about it.

      The ILX, TSX, and Accord 6-6 should all really have one.

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      10-05-2012 09:20 PM #113
      I have to agree with the post above me. For the money I can't see any value in this car beyond the fact that it will last over the long haul. I recently picked up a GLI and it's miles above what this thing is offering and for an out the door price that looks to be thousands less. At this point short of pricing it out of the civic range i'm not even sure why the car should cost this month in general?
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      10-05-2012 09:20 PM #114
      I played the game and would never look at a Nissan. But for me no matter what I was in the market for I wouldn't touch Nissan, I just don't like them as a brand. Same for the Infiniti lineup.

      And I contemplated a mid sizer and it was the Kia Optima but it lost because of one big issue. No manual in turbo SX trim. I realize most of those cars are not geared towards someone in the market for row-your-own so it automatically disqualifies me from looking. So my vehicle search was even smaller to begin with.
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      10-05-2012 10:01 PM #115
      Quote Originally Posted by Charlie84
      [GLI gets you] the appeal of buying into a brand with a following and a youthful, semi-hip, European image (which, of course, matters to some).
      Quote Originally Posted by Charlie84 View Post
      And, where I come from, the VW brand has greater prestige than Nissan (and Acura as well, amongst the more cultured set).
      Holy crap...Euro fanboyism...

      VW is a mainstream carmaker, nothing more.
      Last edited by VarianceVQ; 10-05-2012 at 10:04 PM.
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      10-05-2012 10:11 PM #116
      Quote Originally Posted by choochoo View Post
      a tarted up civic.
      So... it's an Integra, then.

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      10-05-2012 10:50 PM #117
      Quote Originally Posted by OOOO-A3 View Post
      So... it's an Integra, then.
      I was assuming the 'I' in ILX was to be a reminder of the Integra name, which of course was a higher end Civic also.
      If you make something idiot proof, a better idiot will come along.

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      10-06-2012 01:02 AM #118
      Quote Originally Posted by VarianceVQ View Post
      Holy crap...Euro fanboyism...

      VW is a mainstream carmaker, nothing more.
      Yup. I prefer Euro rides. It's true.

      But fanboyism? I'm not advocating for VW on cultural grounds. I'm just saying that their brand image is different than Acura's.

    19. 10-06-2012 01:33 AM #119
      No doubt in your little world.

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      10-06-2012 03:14 AM #120
      Quote Originally Posted by VarianceVQ View Post
      Holy crap...Euro fanboyism...

      VW is a mainstream carmaker, nothing more.
      Not too get too far into this subject, but I think you may be missing a few things here. Compare Vortex to most forums out there and I think you'll find much more intelligent conversation in this forum compared to others. I know my old local Honda forum is full of post about girls, tacos, and compared to this forum contributes nothing worth while. I think the stereo type that most VW buyers are a bit more intelligent than average isn't too far off, but it's not to say there aren't their fair share of idiots in each car buying category.
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      10-06-2012 03:58 AM #121
      Please. Let's stop comparing an Acura to a VW. Forget value, when you talk about ownership experience, it's night and day.

      However, I agree that Acura needs to offer a little more pah for the price and create enthusiasm for their brand. The ILX now is what the TSX was 6 years ago, but smaller, less power, more expensive and with less content? Correct me if I'm wrong.
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    22. 10-06-2012 04:08 AM #122
      Quote Originally Posted by NoXenons View Post
      Maybe if they want to impress kids on TCL who might buy their cars used in 5 years. Otherwise Infiniti is the example not to follow. Acura has outsold Infiniti every month this year. They are doing fire leases on G37's and the one rebadged FWD Nissan they sell has been a huge success.



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      10-06-2012 04:10 AM #123
      Quote Originally Posted by dj_cronic_metal View Post
      Compare Vortex to most forums out there and I think you'll find much more intelligent conversation in this forum compared to others.
      Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
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    24. 10-06-2012 06:03 AM #124
      In those rare occasions when I stumbled upon a imported Acura, I wanted to puke. I admire them for selling anything at all. I really do.
      Last edited by StringTheory; 10-06-2012 at 06:05 AM.

    25. 10-06-2012 06:35 AM #125
      The TSX is a way better car in every way,and when you option the ILX up,its the same price.

      I think people would far rather have the TSX,which is Accord based and fully imported from Japan,than the ILX,which is Civic based,and locally built.

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