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    Thread: ILX sales are below Acura projections

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      10-06-2012 10:59 AM #126
      Quote Originally Posted by Charlie84 View Post
      But fanboyism? I'm not advocating for VW on cultural grounds. I'm just saying that their brand image is different than Acura's.
      Are you comparing an economy brand to what is essentially a luxury (albeit a cheaper one) brand? The fanboyism is strong with this one.

    2. Member Ross1013's Avatar
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      10-06-2012 11:03 AM #127
      Quote Originally Posted by Charlie84 View Post
      When the most logical competitor in the marketplace is a more expensive car your own company already sells, you've got some problems w/ your product planning. They sort of did this when they re-vamped the TL, too. The RL didn't really offer anything beyond the TL except a bigger pricetag. I think the question here is: Does the ILX cannibalize TSX sales or vice versa?
      It's widely speculated that they're going to remedy this by killing the TSX.

      I've also heard that the TL (now TLX) will have an L4 option, meaning it will be downsized a bit to clear room for the completely new RLX (should have called it a Legend) at the top of the range.

      The TSX was a good car but never totally made sense, especially after the redesign. I think this will all eventually be sorted out for the better. ZDX should die when its model cycle ends, leaving us with an Acura lineup of ILX, RDX, TLX, MDX, RLX, NSX by 2015 or so. At least three of those cars will feature the next-gen hybrid SH-AWD, and at least two of them (but probably three) will have the new ZF 9AT.

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      10-06-2012 11:04 AM #128
      Quote Originally Posted by C4 A6 View Post
      Are you comparing an economy brand to what is essentially a luxury (albeit a cheaper one) brand? The fanboyism is strong with this one.
      Hmm... I think the Touareg is more luxurious than anything Acura has on sale right now...
      To me, a fully loaded GTI is more "Luxurious" than a ILX.
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      10-06-2012 11:05 AM #129
      Quote Originally Posted by Charlie84 View Post
      And, where I come from, the VW brand has greater prestige than Nissan (and Acura as well, amongst the more cultured set).
      Oh, gawd...
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      10-06-2012 11:06 AM #130
      Quote Originally Posted by MK5golf View Post
      Hmm... I think the Touareg is more luxurious than anything Acura has on sale right now...
      I totally disagree, but I'm not going to get anywhere with someone named MK5golf.

      I also think it's obvious that VW understand that their brand needs to compete with Honda, Toyota, Nissan, etc...hence the dropping of their prices and the decontenting/'cheapening' of the Golf/Jetta.
      Last edited by Ross1013; 10-06-2012 at 11:10 AM.

    6. Member MK5golf's Avatar
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      10-06-2012 11:11 AM #131
      Quote Originally Posted by Ross1013 View Post
      I totally disagree, but I'm not going to get anywhere with someone named MK5golf.
      Lol obviously not. Mind you, if I wasn't in a mk5 Golf right now, id be in an 8th (6th?!?!) Si, but that was too much of a stretch for a 17 year old. (at the time)

      Although Acura does not make BAD cars... in terms of "Luxury" I think their a cut below the typical German offerings. ILX is defenitely more luxurious than the poverty special 2.0 8v Jetta... but Touareg, CC, Phaeton (ok, that ones only for the old world) and Eos... I cant help but feel that all of Acuras offerings do less of a job catering to the "luxury" people...ie, making buyers feel "special" about their purchase.
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      10-06-2012 11:20 AM #132
      Quote Originally Posted by MK5golf View Post
      Lol obviously not. Mind you, if I wasn't in a mk5 Golf right now, id be in an 8th (6th?!?!) Si, but that was too much of a stretch for a 17 year old. (at the time)

      Although Acura does not make BAD cars... in terms of "Luxury" I think their a cut below the typical German offerings. ILX is defenitely more luxurious than the poverty special 2.0 8v Jetta... but Touareg, CC, Phaeton (ok, that ones only for the old world) and Eos... I cant help but feel that all of Acuras offerings do less of a job catering to the "luxury" people...ie, making buyers feel "special" about their purchase.
      I think you're not TOTALLY off-base. Acura's whole schtick is "Smart Luxury", aimed at people who want to own a well-equipped, well-engineered car without the general unreliability, massive repair bills and complicated options structures of the German brands.

      They had plans to become a "Tier 1" manufacturer, and were going to go after BMW w/both barrels. New NSX was going to have a V10, and the new RL was either going to have a V8 or V10. But after the 08 crash they decided to just stick with Smart Luxury.

      Still, I think Acura v. Audi is a more solid comparison than Acura v. VW. Outliers like the Phaeton and Eos notwithstanding, which do speak to a greater amount of risk-taking on VW's part.

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      10-06-2012 11:34 AM #133
      Quote Originally Posted by Ross1013 View Post
      I think you're not TOTALLY off-base. Acura's whole schtick is "Smart Luxury", aimed at people who want to own a well-equipped, well-engineered car without the general unreliability, massive repair bills and complicated options structures of the German brands.

      They had plans to become a "Tier 1" manufacturer, and were going to go after BMW w/both barrels. New NSX was going to have a V10, and the new RL was either going to have a V8 or V10. But after the 08 crash they decided to just stick with Smart Luxury.

      Still, I think Acura v. Audi is a more solid comparison than Acura v. VW. Outliers like the Phaeton and Eos notwithstanding, which do speak to a greater amount of risk-taking on VW's part.
      acura's most recent risk then would be the 1st gen RDX with its car like ride and turbo (very german yes?). Say what you will but there's a reason that acura owners own their cars for a long time whereas I constantly see, just for example zhps/gtis/GLIs with 49k for sale and then the 2nd and subsequent owners putting them up for sale again every 20k miles or so. Its really not an accident.
      Quote Originally Posted by konigwheels View Post
      Wow, it amazes me that we have children in here that can't read a couple paragraphs. No wonder America's doing so well in education! Can't take the time to read, but sure can find the time to post. Self indulgence at it's finest.

      TL;DR should be banned and changed to ID;CR or I'm dumb, can't read.

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      10-06-2012 12:17 PM #134
      Quote Originally Posted by Ross1013 View Post
      I think you're not TOTALLY off-base. Acura's whole schtick is "Smart Luxury", aimed at people who want to own a well-equipped, well-engineered car without the general unreliability, massive repair bills and complicated options structures of the German brands.

      They had plans to become a "Tier 1" manufacturer, and were going to go after BMW w/both barrels. New NSX was going to have a V10, and the new RL was either going to have a V8 or V10. But after the 08 crash they decided to just stick with Smart Luxury.

      Still, I think Acura v. Audi is a more solid comparison than Acura v. VW. Outliers like the Phaeton and Eos notwithstanding, which do speak to a greater amount of risk-taking on VW's part.
      I think this is right on. Acura = Audi in the Honda product planner's minds (only... and delusionally). Acura brings reliability, lower running costs, historically stronger resale value (not recently), and many of the same feature sets (AWD, sticks, sport-tuned suspensions). But what they are missing, they miss big, especially style, interior quality, winning racing heritage/technical credibility, innovation.

      Style in particular is a major missing element, and the recent generation of "beak" noses were a market disaster. Audi was one of the first to add a distinctive schnoz. Altho, for those who remember, this was much to the detriment of the early generation A4's and A6's where it was grafted on, rather than designed in. Acura tried for a distinctive nose and failed -- they need serious design help. Acura interiors are getting better, but they still cheap out in various places, like making the driver's seat fully adjustable, but not the passenger's. And the scattering of a zillion buttons makes for busy dashboards, with little driver logic to them.

      To me "smart luxury" simply stands for "a luxury-like vehicle that we have to sell cheap because we don't have the credibility or image to be worth more." It seems that Acura is backing away from performance and highlighting efficiency as a selling point, which really places the brand in a non-distinctive no-man's land. It used to be they were the Honda MOTOR company, and it was all about the excellence of their motors and engineering. I'd say they are lost in the wilderness without a compass. Too bad because I like Honda's/Acuras, have owned a few and had good ownership experiences.

      As for the ILX. I agree with those posters who said it is what the Civic should have been. The Civic just feels cheap, especially compared to an equivalent Hyundai. The new Ford Fusion makes the ILX look like a dated piece of crap. Time to get back to a brand that has some basis for credibility, Acura! Otherwise this will be a brand that withers away, like Pontiac. A real shame and an indictment of bad management.

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      10-06-2012 12:32 PM #135
      Quote Originally Posted by VarianceVQ View Post
      Holy crap...Euro fanboyism...

      VW is a mainstream carmaker, nothing more.
      It is on paper, but at least here in north america they are seen as premium as acura, and in some cases more premium if you look at the touareg, which is more upscale than any of that rx, mdx, jx, mkx, srx crap.

    11. Banned Chris Stack's Avatar
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      10-06-2012 12:38 PM #136
      Quote Originally Posted by Idiot S'Avant View Post
      To me "smart luxury" simply stands for "a luxury-like vehicle that we have to sell cheap because we don't have the credibility or image to be worth more." It seems that Acura is backing away from performance and highlighting efficiency as a selling point, which really places the brand in a non-distinctive no-man's land. It used to be they were the Honda MOTOR company, and it was all about the excellence of their motors and engineering. I'd say they are lost in the wilderness without a compass. Too bad because I like Honda's/Acuras, have owned a few and had good ownership experiences.
      I've said it before and I'll say it again; I see no shame in trying to own the $30-45k market. They basically did it before with the 2nd and 3rd gen TL and MDX. German fanboys can scream all day about A4s and 328is being better than TSXs, but when owe cars cost $5-15k more comparatively equipped, yeah, eh should be better. If Acura could fix the TL's styling and get the 9AT in there, a lot of people would be happy to buy a roomy $42k TL that will run for 200k miles instead of a cramped, overpriced $50k A34 with about the same mechanical longevity of a mortar.



      ILX still sucks though.

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      10-06-2012 12:38 PM #137
      Quote Originally Posted by vrsexxy_GTI View Post
      It is on paper, but at least here in north america they are seen as premium as acura, and in some cases more premium if you look at the touareg, which is more upscale than any of that rx, mdx, jx, mkx, srx crap.
      False. Maybe the part about the Twatrag, but in general, no, VW is about as premium as Honda and Nissan.

    13. 10-06-2012 12:40 PM #138
      Quote Originally Posted by vrsexxy_GTI View Post
      It is on paper, but at least here in north america they are seen as premium as acura, and in some cases more premium if you look at the touareg, which is more upscale than any of that rx, mdx, jx, mkx, srx crap.
      In North America vw still has the image of the original beetle...

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      10-06-2012 12:45 PM #139
      Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stack View Post
      False. Maybe the part about the Twatrag, but in general, no, VW is about as premium as Honda and Nissan.
      And now that I read your post closer, no, the Twatrag is NOT more prestigious than the Lexus RX, the official car of upper crust MiLFs everywhere.

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      10-06-2012 12:47 PM #140
      Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stack View Post
      And now that I read your post closer, no, the Twatrag is NOT more prestigious than the Lexus RX, the official car of upper crust MiLFs everywhere.
      To the educated car buyer, the Touareg is more prestigious than a jacked up camry wagon.

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      10-06-2012 12:51 PM #141
      Quote Originally Posted by vrsexxy_GTI View Post
      To the educated car buyer, the Touareg is more prestigious than a jacked up camry wagon.
      Based on what? I suppose the fact that you have to buy a new one every other year because your previous one grenades does make it more expensive, and thus fancy?

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      10-06-2012 01:02 PM #142
      Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stack View Post
      Based on what? I suppose the fact that you have to buy a new one every other year because your previous one grenades does make it more expensive, and thus fancy?
      This thread is retarded. There is absolutely no reason to argue with people when their point is that the ILX isn't a good value compared to loaded normal compact cars, missing the entire issue that NONE of the entry level luxury cars are good value...period.

      Then there are the obvious trolls like our recently returned friend from Montreal, who loved his Saab so much that he sold it in order to move to a Jetta, which is a premium vehicle in his mind, but in its most recent generation was cost cut to shreds.

      In other words - VW good, everyone else bad.
      Quote Originally Posted by teklord69 View Post
      Scenario: Uphill on two lane hwy. You need to pass and overtake a slower vehicle. That 151 torque won't let you. You will hit an oncoming car the opposite side if you do.

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      10-06-2012 01:06 PM #143
      Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stack View Post
      Based on what? I suppose the fact that you have to buy a new one every other year because your previous one grenades does make it more expensive, and thus fancy?
      Based on superior engineering, ride/handling, interior, off road capability. I've driven an Rx, it was just as i expected, a raised camry! Just a quiet, boring car that feels like a minivan! Try driving a Touareg in comparison and you'll see what i mean about superior engineering. If i pay big money for a car, i don't want a camry based van and i don't care about what features and crap it comes with, i want to put my money on sophisticated engineering, and to me that means prestige.

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      10-06-2012 01:08 PM #144
      Quote Originally Posted by vrsexxy_GTI View Post
      Based on superior engineering, ride/handling, interior, off road capability. I've driven an Rx, it was just as i expected, a raised camry! Just a quiet, boring car that feels like a minivan! Try driving a Touareg in comparison and you'll see what i mean about superior engineering. If i pay big money for a car, i don't want a camry based van and i don't care about what features and crap it comes with, i want to put my money on sophisticated engineering, and to me that means prestige.
      Please, with detailed examples, compare and contrast the sophisticated engineering of the Touareg versus that of the Lexus RX.
      Quote Originally Posted by teklord69 View Post
      Scenario: Uphill on two lane hwy. You need to pass and overtake a slower vehicle. That 151 torque won't let you. You will hit an oncoming car the opposite side if you do.

    20. 10-06-2012 01:09 PM #145
      Quote Originally Posted by vrsexxy_GTI View Post
      Based on superior engineering, ride/handling, interior, off road capability. I've driven an Rx, it was just as i expected, a raised camry! Just a quiet, boring car that feels like a minivan! Try driving a Touareg in comparison and you'll see what i mean about superior engineering. If i pay big money for a car, i don't want a camry based van and i don't care about what features and crap it comes with, i want to put my money on sophisticated engineering, and to me that means prestige.
      Shouldn't you compare the touareg with a land cruiser and in that case the reputation of the land cruiser wins out

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      10-06-2012 01:10 PM #146
      Quote Originally Posted by P-Body View Post
      Please, with detailed examples, compare and contrast the sophisticated engineering of the Touareg versus that of the Lexus RX.
      Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
      I'm filming this thread. Just thought I'd let everyone know. I've had some bad experiences with threads in the past.
      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      I like when dumb people quote mechanical grip as a metric of whether or not a car is fun to drive. It's like saying McDonald's is the best restaurant because you get a lot of calories for your money.

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      10-06-2012 01:15 PM #147
      Quote Originally Posted by P-Body View Post
      Please, with detailed examples, compare and contrast the sophisticated engineering of the Touareg versus that of the Lexus RX.
      It takes planning to make the disintegrate so consistently.

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      10-06-2012 01:18 PM #148
      I agree with VR in saying the Touareg is a "better" (NOT MORE RELIABLE) car than the "jacked up Camry" however I think almost everyone would universally agree that the RX has a greater image of "Luxury" associated with it than the Touareg. I have had a lot of experience with both cars, and I think the Touareg has more of a premium "feel" if that makes any sense... but I sure as hell am never going to buy one!
      And in Canada, in terms of perceived Luxury, Lexus trumps VW by a LONGSHOT. Im 100% sure this is the case in the states as well. Lexus is arguably the only Japanese dedicated luxury brand that is up there with the Germans. Im sure people cross shop their S class with an LS, or at least consider it.

      ILX still sucks :p
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      10-06-2012 01:19 PM #149
      Quote Originally Posted by vrsexxy_GTI View Post
      To the educated car buyer, the Touareg is more prestigious than a jacked up camry wagon.
      You mean self important egotistical douchnozzles?
      Sent from my tablet while sipping weak drinks over fancy brunch with a view

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      10-06-2012 01:22 PM #150
      Just drive both and you'll see. That's it.

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